Astrologer, CF Perez, made an interesting statement about inequity in relationships.
She said, when one person in a relationship gave far more than the other, the person who was indebted, filled in with anger. Such a simple and interesting observation. I think she may be correct.
For example, take the alcoholic / codependent relationship. The codependent gives and gives and does the alcoholic appreciate it? Hell no! The alcoholic grows to loathe the person doing the caretaking. The more they receive (that they will never be able to reciprocate) the angrier they get.
The more you give, the more they hate you? This is a compelling argument against giving too much.
Have you ever been part of a relationship out of whack like this? How did it wind up?
that is interesting. it may mean the other person, who is the alcoholic being taken care of, constantly feels ultimately useless. When a person feels useless it is the most gross feeling. doing something for yourself and others to give back does feel so much better. so there should be an exchange of energy to keep it going until old age, when is one of you is too weak to go on. or both. This is probably what enablers do, when they are constantly enabling someone, and not help them be independent? although alcohol addiction is difficult to be around. I remember my first husband drank and drank, and did drug addiction under his mother’s household. He despised her too and she would just buy everything for him. I never understood this dynamic of how it plays out until it’s pointed out clearly. how does a person provide a balance? then there’s the true story of Madonna, who has two homeless brothers, she helped them when they were sober and trying, but when they were homeless again, she didn’t bother according to them.
Oh gosh, it think it goes way deeper than this. You have to look at why the person is giving so much in the first place. Are they trying to make up for something? Are they trying to control the other person by over giving.
It seems to me, the receiver resents being given to because the giver has made them feel they cannot give to themselves. The giver has made them feel that they need them.
Yes, I know this type of relationship. I know how it can seem one way to outsiders but be completely different inside the relationship.
The over-giver is usually a control freak. That is the truth.
And it is no fun to be with a control freak. Freedom is everything.
Both of the people in a giver/ taker relationship have major flaws. And, I personally, feel more sorry for the taker who, for whatever reason, cannot help themselves! And sadly, probably as long as this giver ..this enabler, keeps giving, they’re going to keep feeling like they can’t help themselves.
Often times, it looks like one person’s fault (the taker) when in reality, thats not the whole story. A person does not become angry because theyre looked after….a person becomes angry because they can’t look after themselves. They become angry because they have lost their freedom and independence.
My marriage was like this, it’s starting change, but it was like this for years. Until I understood why. Even after I understood why, it continued for a while, I had to figure out what to do to empower myself, how to quit blaing someone else. I can see why it doesn’t happen for some people. It was so hard.
This is almost a given these days. It’s my argument for good old fashion prayers not deeds in many circumstances.
Well, that kind of service leads to karmic debt. Some people will happily rack up that debt for as long as they can while others try to get out before bankruptcy or guilt trips hit. Plus. Debt = bondage to another person, even on the spiritual level. ?
Yes, I did this. Many, many times. But once before, I took in my girlfriend and her young child when they needed out of a toxic environment and gave her a very fair rent. Then lent her my other vehicle when her car completely died. I thought we were best friends but it turns out she detested me and did some nasty stuff behind my back. All I did was right by her but looking back, I can see how she felt indebted to me and being poor, she didn’t know how she would ever pay me back. Even though I valued our friendship, me doing all that I did for her created in inequality in our friendship and she resented me for it. Even though I didn’t expect anything from her. It took us almost two decades but we’ve mended our friendship after she realized her many wrongs and are on equal terms now. And she has paid me back quite a lot. Also, I have no blinders on this time… But never again. I won’t lend friends money nor martyr myself for them. Nope.
This is a thread of longstanding…and with good reason as IMO, its reflexive of the growing epidemic of detrimental emotional disorders / mental illness, many of which are categorized as Cluster As/Bs with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Bipolar Disorder (BD) getting a lot of notice. This giver/taker, savior/victim schizoid inducing corrosive dynamic is rampant all over the socioeconomic spectrum, particularly at the top of the food chain (the last election cycle and current flip-flipping into a geopolitical crisis clearly is revealing of the pathologies of so many of these serving the masses as long as it serves them ‘authorities’ – La Sirena’s commentary about those that many who ‘over give/overly generous’ are convert controls-freaks with an one-sided agenda the want to be perceived as the rescuer for a calculated show of recieving admiration / applause for their efforts and gravitate to those they perceive that others will see as weak/unwanted/outcasts and take on the role of ‘savior/giver” and with age this pattern become more ingrained, more pathological with each ‘enabling’ scenario they believe they succeed with through the years). My own experiences in life have landed me several times on how this dynamic has been in play, regrettably from infancy onward, and with deep regret but much needed ‘awakening’ I realized that I got involved a seemingly generous person to partner with but OMG that person was a bundle of neurosis / deep seated anxiety / ‘Cluster’ issues that sucked the life out of me. It took me a time to realize that I was not loved but ‘positioned (projected onto), as Goddess stated above, as a prop, an impediment to ‘save’ them from being alone and nothing more! So while I was the ‘kept/saved’ person at the house (in their eyes), there was all manner of cheating taking place outside of the house in order to assuage this amoral person’s pathological sense of insecurities / need for attention. I learned later on that I was actually described by this person as a kind of ‘pathetic albatross’ that needed so much ‘saving’ so that this NPD person could present with a ‘woe is me’ / savior facade for getting from those who could be conned into giving them admiration/attentions for being so good, so wonderful that they’d have sex with such a ‘heroic’ person ‘suffering’ for all the good deeds. To extrapolate, this pathological crap is rampant in our modern, rapidly devolving into nothing but puerile, narcissiscism 24/7 society – people who project / encourage that the masses are victims that can be used to assuage/propped up a very self-serving political/economic/power obsessed agenda (this is the ‘dark side’ of Pluto in Capricorn coming to the fore – certainly has in my life since Pluto started its transit into Cap- and the big reveal is happening – its frightening on all sides as the the masks are being blown off of all the victim/savior pathologies all around at every level & the last couple of years the process has been particularly apropos since the moon’s nodes are transiting through the ‘victim/savior’ axis of Virgo/Pisces!) These pathologies have deep roots for many of us who’ve experienced them firsthand- in our families (mine has an astro signature of it going back generations with sadly, many of the women that Im related to, past & present – schizoid predatory types that ‘play’ the victim/savior as it suits their damaged egos with the intent of gaining a means of self-aggrandizing and using everyone as objects that will serve them . Most members of my extended family are riddled with anxiety issues, with some exhibiting dangerous psychotic tendencies. Its no wonder to me at this point in my life, with introspection, why I attracted long/short term relationships with NPD type people). Virgo / Pisces is about ‘perfecting (Virgo) towards a healthy, self-reliant ‘wholeness/integrating” (Pisces) and the process will start to ratchet up as the Pluto remains in Cap while the nodes slip into the Leo/Aquarius axis as the need for owning oneself/being authentic /self-reliant independence (Aquarius) versus the showiness/playing a role/egos dependent on attention from an audience (Leo) begins within the next few weeks. Rude awakenings across so many levels are and need to be occurring – for so many of us are being used (abused) to our own detriment – in our personal/emotional lives, and in larger sense, such as our neighborhoods/societies/the local turned global ‘markets’ which ‘serve’ our daily ‘needs’. IMO this is much needed course correction to the ‘upheavals’ of the 60s (Uranus/Pluto conjunctions in Virgo). The sooner one realizes just how pervasive is the warped actions of a pathological sense of victim/savior mechanism at all levels of our world, accept how we may be complicit in and start ridding ourselves of the toxic, pathological ‘matter’ in ourselves, the better will we be able to weather to ensuing course correcting upheavals. Takes A LOT of work and I for one couldn’t have done so much of the work sans astrology to help deprogram myself & get rid of the toxic conditioning.
I’ve never wanted to save anyone although I have felt extremely responsible toward my mother who has always revealed such helplessness to me alone.
and maybe its the same thing. I know whats right but my heart doesnt speak any language that would readily comprehend what my mind knows.
The Iceman Cometh portrays this dynamic in one of its ugliest forms.
i think it can work the other way around too, always giving and giving and then you end up despising the other because you gave too much. the imbalance. But i think it is because there was no love ..or one person didnt love the other. The imbalance is the lack of love in my opinion.
i remember my husband’s triple virgo father with scorpio mars ended up hating and despising my capricorn mother in law because she was the breadwinner and competent. he liked the money of course, but he felt incompetent next to her. For a man, the pride is too much. he ended up with a Gemini woman with Taurus/Cancer dominnat chart, who had a more equal relationshp, she was just a simple secretary, compared to Capricorn mother in law who was management and head of the office.
maybe the lack of love was because she loved being helpful and competent? more than his pride? it sure makes one think.