True. I used a lot of drugs when I was young, and I had a huge crush on a drug counselor in my program. We were talking and I was trying to flirt with him and get over on him. Something he told me got through to me – he said that I could get by for a while on being young and cute and flirting with everyone, but I’d wake up one day and I’d be in my thirties, and everything would be different. That scared me.
Yay Elsa!!! Leave it to the Capricorn to see the obvious!! The first Saturn Return usually weeds out most of the really stupid behaviors for sure. I have observed others go through a relapse around their Jupiter Return in their mid-thirties, and finally pull their heads out and get it together. It’s a relatively small percentage who don’t.
It really does get easier and life does get better as we mature. In many ways, it has to do with what we learn is important and what to let slide . . . we don’t have the energy to waste like we did at 20 something!! 🙂
yup. most of my friends are beginning or just finished with their first saturn returns and the kind of growth and shedding of childishness i’m seeing is pretty darn cool. (in myself as well.) waking up and saying “well, darn, this isn’t working, i better do something about it.” is hard, but most people seem to manage it pretty well.
Yep, which is why my ex is my ex…I realized that he was 35 years old and hadn’t outgrown alcohol OR porn and I knew that he likely wouldn’t at that point. I loved him, but I had to leave.
Of course, I was born old so I didn’t have to outgrow those things 😉
I haven’t read the book, however I have to disagree about serious addictions due to my life experiences. I think the dabblers will definitely outgrow the addictions.
I do think that the seriously addicted will continue, until they either die or have such a shock of some sort that will make them take responsibility to actually change.
Over the years I have seen different people lose everything including their lives.
I have a problem with the deal of.. oh woe is me I have a disease. Well no one wrestles you down and pours booze into you, or sticks a needle in your arm. These are NOT substances you need to survive. A disease is not something you actively pursue, unless you are a wingnut to begin with.
I am very aware of the fact that the body changes and it becomes addicted when you put crap into it. I am also very aware of the dynamics of substance abuse when it is an ongoing generational thing in families. However I think that labeling these things a disease is a handy dandy way of absolving people of their own continuing bad decisions.
To me it just dovetails so neatly into what has become a matter of course in the past, not taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Not owning the fact that you chose the route that leads you down the path.
When a person hurts others physically or mentally over a substance or a way of being ie internet porn, they are basically narcissists, calling them diseased is a form of absolving them.
I am seriously addicted to cigarettes, but I don’t have a disease. I made a decision every time I stick a smoke in my mouth.
Daemoness – we don’t actually disagree… me, you, the book. The writer acknowledged the obvious, some people drink until they die but at the time there was emphasis on calling it pathology when it was really just a phase.
Many outgrow their relationships struggles in the same fashion. They settle down as a natural process of aging.
I’ll just put it this way. It does not surprise me in the least if I hear a 25 year old is using some kind of drug. Like Michael Phelps for example. Big shock there – not. Or the Biden daughter and her cocaine.
But it also doesn’t surprise me when they are 35 and have put it down.
My life has been turned upside down in the past year due to addiction in a close family member. I’m late to this discussion because I have just spent the past week having to deal with it daily. While I agree that most people “dabble” and “grow” out of it, those that don’t are seriously at risk.
In the case I’m talking about, the transits are giving every opportunity to choose to change. It’s still a choice individual has to make. And it’s a lot more involved that one planet, or one aspect.
Amen. There are a fair number of things I’d love to outgrow… and some things I thought I wouldn’t, that I have already.
True. I used a lot of drugs when I was young, and I had a huge crush on a drug counselor in my program. We were talking and I was trying to flirt with him and get over on him. Something he told me got through to me – he said that I could get by for a while on being young and cute and flirting with everyone, but I’d wake up one day and I’d be in my thirties, and everything would be different. That scared me.
“That scared me.”
SATURN
Yay Elsa!!! Leave it to the Capricorn to see the obvious!! The first Saturn Return usually weeds out most of the really stupid behaviors for sure. I have observed others go through a relapse around their Jupiter Return in their mid-thirties, and finally pull their heads out and get it together. It’s a relatively small percentage who don’t.
It really does get easier and life does get better as we mature. In many ways, it has to do with what we learn is important and what to let slide . . . we don’t have the energy to waste like we did at 20 something!! 🙂
Always good to hear someone (besides me!) go against the grain of “convetional wisdom” i.e. everyone with a problem needs treatment. Thanks Elsa.
yup. most of my friends are beginning or just finished with their first saturn returns and the kind of growth and shedding of childishness i’m seeing is pretty darn cool. (in myself as well.) waking up and saying “well, darn, this isn’t working, i better do something about it.” is hard, but most people seem to manage it pretty well.
Yep, which is why my ex is my ex…I realized that he was 35 years old and hadn’t outgrown alcohol OR porn and I knew that he likely wouldn’t at that point. I loved him, but I had to leave.
Of course, I was born old so I didn’t have to outgrow those things 😉
I haven’t read the book, however I have to disagree about serious addictions due to my life experiences. I think the dabblers will definitely outgrow the addictions.
I do think that the seriously addicted will continue, until they either die or have such a shock of some sort that will make them take responsibility to actually change.
Over the years I have seen different people lose everything including their lives.
I have a problem with the deal of.. oh woe is me I have a disease. Well no one wrestles you down and pours booze into you, or sticks a needle in your arm. These are NOT substances you need to survive. A disease is not something you actively pursue, unless you are a wingnut to begin with.
I am very aware of the fact that the body changes and it becomes addicted when you put crap into it. I am also very aware of the dynamics of substance abuse when it is an ongoing generational thing in families. However I think that labeling these things a disease is a handy dandy way of absolving people of their own continuing bad decisions.
To me it just dovetails so neatly into what has become a matter of course in the past, not taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Not owning the fact that you chose the route that leads you down the path.
When a person hurts others physically or mentally over a substance or a way of being ie internet porn, they are basically narcissists, calling them diseased is a form of absolving them.
I am seriously addicted to cigarettes, but I don’t have a disease. I made a decision every time I stick a smoke in my mouth.
Daemoness – we don’t actually disagree… me, you, the book. The writer acknowledged the obvious, some people drink until they die but at the time there was emphasis on calling it pathology when it was really just a phase.
Many outgrow their relationships struggles in the same fashion. They settle down as a natural process of aging.
I’ll just put it this way. It does not surprise me in the least if I hear a 25 year old is using some kind of drug. Like Michael Phelps for example. Big shock there – not. Or the Biden daughter and her cocaine.
But it also doesn’t surprise me when they are 35 and have put it down.
My life has been turned upside down in the past year due to addiction in a close family member. I’m late to this discussion because I have just spent the past week having to deal with it daily. While I agree that most people “dabble” and “grow” out of it, those that don’t are seriously at risk.
In the case I’m talking about, the transits are giving every opportunity to choose to change. It’s still a choice individual has to make. And it’s a lot more involved that one planet, or one aspect.