Pressure To Be Disingenuous

saturn gylphdisingenuous
: lacking in candor
also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING

I’m naturally candid.  With Saturn in Pisces, I feel a considerable pressure to be disingenuous. If I can’t stomach that option, I can opt to avoid answering direct question or even avoid interaction all together.

Are you experiencing something similar? If so, how are you handling it?

44 thoughts on “Pressure To Be Disingenuous”

  1. Oh I’m feeling this. My mars is also tangled with Neptune so getting what I want, the straightforward way, seems….difficult.

    Idk I could (& have) insisted for frankness, but the trick seems to be able to pretend to have, what others want, whatever the reality is.

    Gloomy state of affairs, ik.

    Wonder if this would pass, eventually, or it’s just life.

    1. It’s life now!

      Ask a question.
      Get an honest answer that you don’t like.

      There are legions of people living life this way. In fact, it’s probably the majority.

      So what happens when you just keep dividing yourself?

      1. Yeah I was thinking along the same line, maintaining some sort of shape with integrity is quite a challenge these days. Eats away at the individual, bit by bit.

  2. Avatar
    Neptune Barbie

    I say nothing to anyone anymore except talk about the weather and ask how they’re doing. I have no longer have meaningful conversations. People over-react when you don’t agree with them.

  3. I’m trying to figure out how to handle this. Like, “I refuse to answer this question on the grounds you won’t like the answer.”

    Seems a poor option, making a huge assumption about how a person will react. But walking this plank, 5-10 times a day is not much fun.

    I might need a new banner. “All Opinions Unpopular” 🙂

  4. If you have lived your life to this point being candid and genuine in your transactions with others why would you ever consider being disingenuous?
    Just to be accepted? Would I be liked than? probably not.
    Wouldn’t that be hypocritical? You are here to be the best you can be. The fact that someone may not like your answer is a reflection of there issues not yours. The barer of truth is seldom liked. From a metaphysical perspective of the nature of reality, including the first principles of: being or existence, and identity YOU ARE A UNIQUE INDIVIDUAL AND MUST HONOR YOU DESIGN and your purpose here.

        1. Because I am sensitive to rejection and because I have Libra and care to please people. Because it hurts. Because I’m human.

          1. Than you will continue to suffer! But
            you are not meant to suffer so I gather you know what what you must do to move pass this.

          2. I am so like you Elsa. And I understand what you’re going through. I think it’s part of the maturation process for human beings right now… the young and stupid, know so much – they don’t know what they don’t know and worse, they’re entitled and justified in emotionally slapping you – no honor, or respect and they’ve got the dough and self-importance that goes with it. It is important that you don’t shut down, dwell on it, and like water on duck’s back let it roll right off of you. I think your 9th house placements will garner the acumen on how to deal with these emotionally immature types. Biggest of Loving Hugs!!!

            1. maybe an odd contradiction, but I experience the young as candid and perspicacious in contrast to those in powerful positions to make the average Joe and Jane’s life more difficult and disconnected. I have a tremendous respect for the younger cohort. Although, all of this is only speaking in generalizations. There are old and young stupid, old and young wise. It’s a matter of what we do with the experience we gain, right? The young are dialed in and getting a crash course. And so it goes…

              1. there is no doubt everyone is going thru a crash course on reality and just what makes it up, creates it. Being raised as a daycare object, a possession, tv programmed OR raised by a loving parents, makes ALL the difference in the world for all people – young or old – everyone grows up God willing.

  5. Disingenuous? Yeah, I’ve had to bite my tongue sooooo many times. With the way people abuse their power (and those who are knowingly and purposefully), this was a mode of survival. I know I made some people angry and they didn’t trust me, but it was worse when I told me truth, even nicely. If I showed my strength, they saw me as a threat that needed to be neutralized.

    I was the kid who said the emperor had no clothes (and you better believed I’d get spanked for it).

    Disingenuous? No, for me, it was survival.

    1. So agree, Kristina. It’s survival. I have developed a conscious ability to deceive, and I am proud of it. It feels good to deceive the deceiver, like I am taking back my power.

      1. Thank you, Jac! I never had seen it as a form of taking back my power. It was more like keeping it the likelihood of a threat was high, but to take back the power? Yes!

  6. This is an internal conflict which is a big theme right now and going forward. Pluto in Aqua is an extension of the group mind/heart struggles which were faced with Saturn in Aquarius.

    The way groups have been formed historically is based on the individual partaking in a fundamental self-deception that everyone colludes with, which is to deny the existence of the essential self, the soul, abiding in the heart not the mind.

    In taking off the social conditioned masks there is fear of the loss of security the group provides. But this is based on a distortion of how groups function and the role of love. Every time we can trust enough to be our true selves we help someone else have the courage to know it’s possible. Eventually this forms better and stronger groups based in love.

    It’s a conflictual process coming “out” due to conditioning and fear of loss, fundamentally the loss of love that isn’t real because it has so many conditions attached, it’s actually hate in disguise. But right now it’s essential to do this if you have the strength and courage, in other words you feel self love from the soul. You are doing it for everyone not just yourself. And you have universal support that is much bigger and more powerful than a network of fearful closed minds.

    Yes, it rocks people’s security when they meet the truth of love in another and are still clinging to their self deception, but that security isn’t sustainable. The self deception in the collective is flaring up right now in response to the growing energies supporting the souls emergence. It’s like someone hunkering down into a lie, when you threaten to reveal it. But you don’t even have to use words as it’s all energetic.

    The self deceptive system in our collective bestows false power. I should mention that because it is not just security that is gained but the perception of “having” power, which is a larger group collusion. Breaking this system internally thus eventually externally leads to “being” in true power, love. But you can see people hang on really tight to their false power, it’s more easily gained/bestowed by the group, but has no integrity/sustainability leading to constant fear it can be “taken” by others. Then you have to fight over it, like a resource that can be lost. If you are love, you can’t lose it. No more war.

    So it has a massive reality changing ripple effect and so is very important, even if it feels uncomfortable in the short term to the ego.

    I use the term you, but it is you, me, everyone who finds themselves in this place.

    1. I so agree with this beautiful statement about the power of living your truth from a foundation of love. All fear can be reframed on the assumption that life is a unity. One love, y’all

  7. When pressed but can see the drooling
    Of the one expecting an answer
    Remember, you are allowed an unexpressed thought, I just keep it in when required, smile and wave
    People hate it when you smile when they’re getting ready to fight and they get weak when you laugh, give it a try
    I know more fun to be honest and frank and all that but you hit it !!people are off the charts crazy ready to get crazier??


    This is the part that concerns me. There is pressure to become a deceptive operator. The result of this, is that it inches a person towards sociopathy.

    1. what came to mind as I read this: “the only way to win is not to play the game”

      I reject becoming something I am not, fundamentally. Can I stick to that ethos, when push comes to shove? Can I avoid ruthlessness, becoming that which I despise? Or will my hand be forced, for mere survival? With time and maturity, there’s a lot of never say never’s surfacing, so better get those values polished and sharp.

        1. Releasing idealistic myths and letting go of excessive dependencies frees us to be authentic and assertive. Theoretically. 😉 Accept the inevitability of loneliness as you struggle to be understood. There is pressure to be a deceptive operator, fur sure. I see that too.

  9. Oh, I have tried, boy have I tried! I keep smiling and tell myself that not everybody needs/is interested in/is entitled to my opinion. But then they piss me off and I let them have it. I have a stellium in scorpio and pluto on the ascendant and I was really looking forward to smiling sweetly and keeping my own counsel….but what happened was that people ran strong energy at me which didnt just challenge what I think and feel but became personal attacks….so I shot ’em down. I dont think I Can be disingenuous, it seems a useful skill to someone as blunt as I, but I just fall into the hole every time and speak my piece, if only to back them off while I check in with myself how I want to run the situation. I did also check if I was kidding myself (Neptune) about my motives, triggers etc and concluded that well, stuff it, the protagonists exited stage right with a far bigger flea in their ear than they expected and they wont be back. Suits me great, I have given up with the simpering passive aggresion and full on agression hidden in some of the local concerns coming to my door and sent it off. I should perhaps be truly ashamed of myself but I find I am not. Its like I am blazing when confronted by provocation and just switch it off fast.

  10. Saturn is transiting my 3rd house currently, and nearly opposite my natal Saturn. I am finding that I’m talking less and less and seeing more than ever. I’m currently going through a situation that most don’t like to think about, let alone talk about, like it’s contagious or something, and I’m mainly pasting on a smile and telling people I’m doing great, seems to keep them satisfied.

  11. The people I engage with mostly share or at least accept my views- or can sometimes correct my thinking. I don’t really share my opinions with others as there’s already enough divisiveness in the world. But I can always ask how someone’s child is doing at their new job or what their vacation was like. There are plenty of opportunities to be cordial (Libra) without being disengenuous.

  12. Just to add, if I am asked something I don’t want to answer, I just deflect – like by saying I don’t really have enough information to respond or I have a lot of feelings or thoughts about that but I can’t really articulate them now. Is that being disengenuous?

    1. i dont think so, thats not calculating. i see calculating as something very devious. there’s no deviousness in deflecting and running away. running away from things/problems is so you dont cause hurt on others and yourself. but also running/detaching away can be detrimental. so it’s a hard balance.
      calculating is more like, i see, in villains, in cartoonish shows for example, the evil perpetrator watching and plotting and calculating. thats up to no good.

      although, if plotting for good, to make the outcome good, that’s not usually called ‘calculating’. since calculating is very negative term.

      1. I wondered about this as well. I *do* think it’s calculating *if I did it*. Because I would disingenuous, handling the person in a manipulative way.

        I’m not surprised other people feel differently. It’s my Mars Mercury in the 9th house… which describes and honest, straight shooter. When I deviate from that in any way, I feel ill. Totally personal!

  13. My Scorpio sun, Libra moon, Gemini rising sister has to be disingenuous. She’s a parent of two pre-teen girls, so of course she’s inclined to be disingenuous, as most parents have to be in order to survive child-rearing. Lies and coverups are essential to parenthood (and marriage), aren’t they?

    But she’s also unemployed, financially reliant on her husband to pay for her every extravagant whim — because she’s entitled to it and deserves it. She’s reliant on her husband to pay for everything, to cook, shop, drive the kids to their various activities, pay for a domestic cleaning person, and pay for regular trips overseas. She’s financially reliant on our father currently (to pay for her yoga teacher training courses, for instance) and after he dies for the inheritance. And she’s reliant on the government for her monthly disability payments due to concussion from hitting her head on the stairs a few years ago.

    My sister has rarely been candid and open throughout her 50-year life. She believes that the only time one should speak of their personal issues is with a therapist. I’m forbidden to speak about our family of origin with her, even if it’s something as innocuous as “do you remember what costumes mom helped us make for halloween?” when I was helping to make costumes for my nieces. Being candid about how our parents’ abuse might have affected us as adults is taboo talk. My sister says, “I’m not your therapist. I paid thousands in therapy to deal with it, so don’t talk to me about our family.”

    I’m Aries sun, Taurus stellium. I can’t stand secrets, and I have no reason to hide my reality. I keep having to remind myself how opposite my astro blueprint is compared to my Scorpio sister’s, especially when it comes to being open, honest, and candid. To me, superficial talk is pointless and boring with a sister, especially when I see the ever-growing fissures in her facade. Communication between us is so superficial we don’t even bother anymore.

    1. oh that’s a frustrating one for you! but have you considered that by your very forthright manner, and [continued] judgement on her, she will never feel safe to talk to you about any of this. Nor is she obliged to! You want to talk about family with her, while saying in the same breath that her boundaries are just excuses, and that your reality goes. You’re still saying “how it **may/might** have affected us.” Her years of therapy [and why] is dismissed with that. Perhaps look at how your words and views can be alienating. Have you even thought to ask- what did you learn in therapy? How did it work for you? rather than the “have a cup of cement and get on with it”.

      1. Thank you, Marty, I really appreciate your words and perspective. Much to ponder, and good incentive for me to turn a critical mirror on myself. Thank you for taking the time and effort.

        1. No probs Niki, and thank you for giving me an avenue to be not so hypercritical [i hope] and to be met with due regard. I fight the pair of you within me, so I feel all this lol! Add a midheaven 29cap, yeahhh I’m in for a treat [again].

          But think of therapy as a secret diary that responds and gives feedback – it’s a very intimate experience where vulnerabilities are thrust under a floodlight to scour and heal. And in a safe space, with a safe person. And by the very nature of generational discord and disfunction, logically you have to realise that a good portion of her dosh would have also been spent on how to deal with you! You’re the sibling, who at this stage is only starting to realise just how amiss your upbring was. And you still carry many unconscious attitudes that will continue to trigger. It’s textbook stuff, not personal, don’t worry. So, in conclusion, she’s not ‘keeping secrets’ but protecting vulnerabilities. I wish you well in your inner journey, go for it!

  14. I saw a list somewhere of phrases you can say when you don’t want to directly disagree with someone but you don’t want to lie either. Things like “that’s something to think about” “could be” “we will see”.

    The truth is we are all one as souls. We just have these contentious personalities! If this world is going to survive we are going to have to learn to be with people we disagree with. It doesn’t mean we have to concede to them. But we are not going to make it as humanity if we can’t allow people to have different opinions.

    I guess the question these days is “Do you want to die on that hill?” Hopefully the answer is no. But it is funny how hard it is to keep your integrity when you are confronted with someone you totally disagree with. The challenge of our times.

  15. I have two strategies to deal with this.

    If I feel the question is disingenuous or designed to trap me into something I’ll ask flat out – why are you asking ME this question? Is there something you want to hear or are looking for? I don’t understand. – This is usually in those touchy situations where giving the wrong answer can get me fired.

    If it’s someone I trust I ask – do you want the polite answer or the honest one?

    I’m not willing to compromise myself but I’m also not willing to allow someone to manipulate me into losing a job or the like.

    1. I like your strategy, Kelly. It is honest and at the same time you are not allowing others to manipulate you. It is just hard sometimes to think on the spot of what to say.

  16. some things i keep wrapped up really close to my chest most of the time. and most people don’t have a right or a need to know everything. it’s so context dependent. but it’s a survival tactic too. i blame all my neptune pisces stuff.
    i’m always accurate (to the best of my ability.) i’m also often very terse. mercury taurus helps lol.

  17. I think you are mistranslating Saturn in Pisces, I have it in my natal birth chart. Pisces has good and kind qualities but he is not perfect, he is not always naive more so when he has an overdeveloped sixth sense that tells him something about people. The negative side is that he is deceitful, and illusionary. Saturn in Pisces blocks deception, fantasy, lying of course, maybe you thought you have always been sincere when maybe you are really an average person. Since Saturn has entered Pisces forming a trigon to my Sun, and I have dealt in a direct, highly cold way with others, I used to let people take advantage of me, I have spoken my truths publicly even if it meant exposing my flaws and weaknesses, now I am better. So you should analyze what is going on with you and what is really Saturn in Pisces.

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