I wanted to talk about the shadow-side of talent, so I called my friend, Ben. He’s a Scorpio artist who has worked in the arts for decades.
We got talking about charisma. Ben mentioned instinctual actors like, Marlon Brando, Warren Beatty and James Dean. He mentioned Maria Callas as examples of people who have that IT quality. Never mind their flaws or lack or classical technique. Audiences love them.
“Can you imagine, Marlon Brando in a supporting role in a movie?” he asked. “He couldn’t do it. He’s too charismatic; he’s got to play the lead.”
Ben has charisma himself. He said that as embarrassing as it is to say so, whenever he watched films of performances, his eye was always drawn to himself. This is the case regardless if he were playing in a trio, a quartet or as part of symphony orchestra.
I am sure this is the case because he once told me that most all the donations that came in to support the various orchestras he’s played with, are donated to his chair. Consequently, when these organizations have needed money, they have used him (Scorpio energy) to raise it. Specifically, they take his picture because he plays his cello barefoot in all circumstance. You can imagine how people get a kick out of this and out comes the wallet. Ben couldn’t get away with that if he did not have so much charisma.
Chiron rules charisma. Ben has Chiron conjunct his ascendant in Aquarius, so you can see how his quirk plays well. Marlon Brando has Chiron conjunct his Sun, Moon and Mercury in Aries and it’s easy to see how his charisma is related in his raw male energy (Aries).
Are you charismatic? Where is Chiron in your chart?
I’m so curious as to why Chiron would be associated with Charisma? I don’t doubt it is so. Just trying to figure out how the Wounded Healer relates to this concept.
Odd almost every single person here talks about their own Chiron position and aspects.
I find charisma is Pluto/Venus 8th house, which can also make you wealthy which in this society makes you HOT!
Because charisma is about sexual projection that others recognize.
I don’t buy Chiron is the wound, Pluto is. Chiron is the cure along with it’s aspects. It shows where the wound came from and how it can be healed I find it similar to the North Node.
lol
Very interesting!!
The dictionary’s definition of Charisma is: (1) compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others; or (2) a divinely conferred power or talent. There’s nothing more attractive than to own one’s greatest wound and still have the power/talent to heal or inspire greatness in others.
Chiron-Sun and Chiron-Sun/Moon Midpoint and I’ve been told before that I am charismatic. I just thought it was Scorpio Rising.
I’m not charismatic – but I’m in awe of people who are!
Chiron in Scorpio, 1st House, unaspected.
the thing i notice about these charismatic people is despite all the flaws they have and sometimes it’s out there lol they dont care. they keep on going LOL Like how Warren Beaatty is such a womanizer and even Carly Simon made songs for him. Did he care? Nope. he just kept on trucking.
I love that Ben plays barefoot in the orchestra! I’d get a real kick at of that too!
I just stumbled across this post. Thank you Elsa. As ever, your posts are always thought provoking.
My youngest son has charisma by the bucket load. His Chiron is squ to both nodes, but sextile Asc (Scorpio) & trine Desc. From primary school to secondary school, girls & boys flocked to him, then I’d have to listen to their mothers fawning over him too. It always made me chuckle. He was a leader without having to try & he hated it that others followed or copied him. Our conversations were always about him being true to himself & forgetting what others were doing.
For me I have Chiron in H4 tightly opp Mars/Pluto in H10 plus a tight trine to Neptune in H12. I am continually surprised by comments made by others about me. I always, without fail, end up thinking quietly, “do you know what you are saying”? It amuses me no end. Why copy what I do or follow my processes at work/home? Then, I remember those conversations with my youngest!
Thank you once again. I have learnt another little piece of a puzzle.
Hello,
I have Chiron conjoin venus aqua in first house.
Been told I have it.
It like your not aware of it.
Wonder brad Pitt.
I know a teacher women star stuck over. This may be a clue.
Chiron in the 12th in Aquarius just 4 degrees short of my Pisces Asc. I’m known to be called quirky more than charismatic but acting was a consideration in high school and I appeared in all the plays and often in the school orchestra too.
Hi! I have Chiron in the 12th house in Aries, 4 degrees short of my Aries Asc. I also seem to be a bit quirky, not so much charismatic 🙂 But there’s something else I would like to check with you since you have a simmilar position: Is it possible that Chiron in 12th close to Asc means you have a prenatal wound? My father told me that my mum was very stressed when she was pregnant with me. They moved from their village to big city and she was very scared and insecure. Also I feel I can’t hide my wounds.
What you say Kali about not being able to hide your wounds is so interesting to me. I now live in a different country (have for many years) from my birth and setting my natal chart for where I now live, places Chiron on my Ascendant, and boy can I relate to what you said there. I have spent many years before this in the country I was born in, and I never felt like that there.
I have Leo AC as well as sun in the 5th house (cap) squaring Chiron in the 3rd. I am charismatic. People have told me this but I am also aware of it on my own. This trait alone might be the only reason I’m not a total stick in the mud. Hehe
You do seem to be a happy lizard. 🙂
So, it’s called Charisma, eh?
Chiron conjunct chart ruler Mercury and part of a T square/grand trine with Moon, Mars and Jupiter. Moon is very close to MC.
Is that why I drive everybody crazy and have always managed to squeak out of those most dire circumstances?
May be.
As a child I recall being introduced to my Mom’s friends and theywould often say, “Oh, my. He’s going to be a heartbreaker”. My mom would become perturbed at that. She would never allow me to have airs about myself and never has the thought of my being attractive been valid. T square/grand trine, doncha know…
.
Even as an adult I would be amazed that a certain woman would actually like me…
This is so interesting!! I have Chiron conj my Taurus ASC with Venus/Mars, all at 1-5 degrees. Uranus opposes at 8 degrees and they are also my Sun/Moon midpoint. Maybe all of that modifies it somewhat but as a child I was always told I had charisma, I felt it too and I think my Gem Sun boosted it a little.
As an adult I feel like I repel people and most people get the wrong first impression of me. I can’t stand having attention, I get super embarrassed and have difficulties speaking when I have to talk in front of people.
My mom has told me that she thinks around middle school other girls started becoming jealous of my light and would bully me to make themselves feel better. I took all of the insults to heart and slowly became insecure, believing everything they said.
Can charisma be dimmed or shut down?
You definitely have charisma, Sam. I think we’re all a little tripped up at the moment.
Thank you Elsa!! My progressed Sun moved into Leo this year so I am beginning to feel different, in terms of my self-esteem. I’m slowly starting to employ that “light” again and I can feel it breaking through a bit.
My Chiron return is in about 5 years as well I believe so maybe by then I will have broken the “spell”!!!!
Oh, charisma, this is something I’ve long forgotten about chiron. Strange that the only idea remaining about chiron in my head was pain and healing others but not the self. I have chiron in leo in 7th, sextile sun, trine mars and square midheaven. So does it mean charisma seen in other people? Because I tune in to people’s potential. But other than that I don’t know how to read this.
Your writing has charisma! I can vouch, 7H -1H axis at work….with those georgeous trines and sextiles! Maybe the square challenges your MH to own it?! Signed a chiron-sun :0)
That’s a generous thought, thank you for seeing it that way!
I’m really glad you wrote. I’m a Gemini Sun sextile Chiron in the 7th and tuning into peoples potential rings right to me. Healing self has taken a Chiron return to begin the process- I think. An astrologer once told me Mercury and Chiron were my chart rulers and I didn’t think anything of it. It’s coming together for me. Thanks
Hello, I am glad to hear you resonate with this in respect to chiron. I am a gemini sun as well. It got me thinking about what you said and chiron return. In a linear time frame it’s very interesting that a chiron return is huddled in the middle of saturn returns. We have our first saturn return , then chiron return along the way and then a second saturn return and a third maybe. I think it’s a shot at looking more deeply into our life path and to not be afraid to look where we stand and the choices we had to make, to just embrace it and go from there. Chiron return sounds like an opportunity, of course it’s not the only chance. I think as long as we live and breathe and we put in the effort, closure, acceptance, forgiveness and in the end healing can still happen.
Agreed. I appreciate you linking Saturn returns. I read the book by Barbara Hand Clow on Chiron the “Rainbow Bridge ” I appreciate her perspective-Chiron is ruled by Virgo and the 6th house. Not sure if your Sun is in up in the 9th. Saturn is moving thru my 6th house ( Squaring Jupiter Sun conjunction) and eventually heading to Aries/Chiron in the 7th. Big influence with me. I have natal Saturn conjunct moon and mercury in the 8th.
Thank you for the book reference, haven’t read it yet. Transit saturn square sun and jupiter at the same time, hmm doesn’t sound too easy but I think extra care for health or at least preventive care should be important these days. My natal sun is in 4th. Wishing you good outcomes from the transits!
Venus conjunct Chiron in Gemini squaring my ascendant ruler and opposing my Sagittarius ascendant.
The late Whitney Houston had Chiron conjunct her Pisces ascendant.
That’s a great example.
Thanks. I could go on and on about Chiron. Marilyn Monroe had Venus conjunct Chiron on her Midheaven. I feel the charisma comes from the sensitivity or vulnerability of Chiron.
Thank you. Recently, I got attacked for this post, though I know I’m right. It wasn’t the first time, either.
Gosh – Marilyn Monroe totally fits the job description of that aspect line-up.
Oh wow Sadie – I didn’t know that about Whitney Houston. I’m Pisces rising, Leo Sun but with a different moon placing to Whitney but I’ve always felt huge compassion towards her. Pisces rising is hard enough but with Chiron conjunct – that’s tough. But it really explains her charisma. May God rest her.
Chiron right on my Venus in the 8th house in Aquarius. Square Mars in Taurus by 3 degrees. I am noticed.
Curt Cobain had Venus conjunct Chiron and Saturn on his descendent. Michael Jackson had Chiron opposite Venus conjunct Uranus. Elvis had Chiron square Moon.
I have Chiron conjunct my sun/descendant, but I don’t know if I have any or not. I’ve been told I do while storytelling, but so far this hasn’t really worked out for my acting career. I don’t know if I’m just not charismatic enough or just not “star material” for other people or if I just don’t fit parts that aren’t me, or what.
I have chiron in gemini trine my aquarius asc. I also have pluto square my asc lol. I can turn on the charisma and I can turn it all the way off, too. Chiron comes in handy when I want to be liked, pluto comes in handy when I want to be left the hell alone. A weird thing is that the three biggest heartbreaks/burns I have ever experienced have been sun conj chiron people. All different signs. All insanely charismatic, too. Artists in their own right. Now when I see that in someone’s chart I keep em at a distance, no matter how funny/charming/attractive.
Sun square chiron and chiron in 7th house, i don’t have it but i am attractive to and i know to recognize it lol
I wish I understood this better. All the examples of famous people with Chiron standing out like Marilyn Monroe- also have a lot of wounding in their life.
What is it that feeds this charisma ~ and how is it linked to the wounding aspects of Chiron?
Maybe Leonard Cohen said it best.
” There is a crack, a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in…”
Oh yes Elsa – that’s really pithy on this subject.
Yes, it’s absolutely fascinating Raven.
I’m loving this! Let’s keep building this list of great examples. I don’t know why I didn’t think of him earlier: John F. Kennedy Jr (moon conjunct Chiron squaring his Sun)
I think ive got charisma but then hitler did too. I have Chiron on the midheaven. If i want to turn It on i can but that can be exhausting.
Interesting. I have charisma, but I’ve not displayed it or used it in years. I’m talking, ten years. It does not exhaust me. I just don’t like the blowback. I’ve made myself a wallflower and I’m good with it.
lol, me neither elsa. Ven-Nept-Isis conj Scorp ASC, Jup-Chiron conj Pisces ISC square !st Sun-Merc Sagg oppVirgo MC conj Uranus-Pluto. After the Chiron Pluto (and fuq, was it Saturn too) in Sagg on my Sun square everything else, I was done and a million years wiser about the world. But during that time I performed (sang) and wrote music for a living with the man who broke my heart and taught (voice) and healed a lot of people. Then I got a Phd and taught at uni – a bit of presene helped there too. All Chironed and charisma-ed out now; just doing low profile behind the scenes work for good causes.
I too have charisma. Random strangers say hello to me~ people are drawn to me (until the encounter my Scorpio)
I have Uranus Mercury, conjunct Sun ~ Moon on the NN in Sagittarius, Venus sextile Pluto ~ thought it was all that.
On the other hand, I’m a sensitive Cancerian.
Chiron in Aquarius is squared my Ascendant in Scorpio / I certainly never considered that a factor.
I love this conversation!!! I have Chiron at 12 degrees conjunct my Ascendant in Capricorn at 13 degrees and it completes a Grand Cross. With Chiron opposite Uranus in Cancer at 10 degrees on my Descendant, Square my Mercury at 10 degrees Aries, and square Saturn in Libra at 10 degrees. Pretty tight aspects. I also have my Sun conjunct Jupiter in Aries and Venus is there as well. Pluto in Leo trine my Sun-Jupiter in Aries. Also Neptune in Libra opposite my Sun-Jupiter. And Moon conjunct Mars in Scorpio. Oh, and my Urania is conjunct Chiron and my Ascendant. I feel like I have had the most fortunate lifetime. I have experienced many unusual things such as an OOBE Samadhi style. Observed 3 UFO’s up close in the daytime with my family when I was a kid. Was on a plane on 9/11. Read a book by the astrologer Louis Acker where he told how to make clouds disappear and it really works. Manifested winning a car using meditation in a PVC pyramid. Bigfoot….. I could go on. But I’m probably getting long winded. Am I charismatic? Sometimes!!!
This is so helpful. I have asked and asked why women copy my style and wardrobe. My moon at 14 degrees Leo in 7th house like to be stylish but I’M NO BEAUTY. My mother was doing it at age 89 and my sister still does it age 79. One lady even put on 18 kilos as well as copying the wardrobe! Last year a young lady said she was doing it not to look like me but to BE like me. When I was young three ladies, all of them intuitive Libras, wanted to wear my clothes and one even went through a phase of sleeping in them. I was seeing a psychologist for a while and when she changed to the same white watch band, gold bracelet and grey shoes frankly it spooked me. After a lifetime of this I try to be inconspicuous but it is still going on at age 81. If I’d known about this sooner it would have halped I think. Seventh house Chiron conjunct North Node 23 Leo Trine Sun 23 Aries. Cheers.
That’s so interesting. People are drawn to me but I’ve not started any trends lol. Though come to think of it my youngest sister does emulate my boho style … I really am a bit of a mother figure as when she was little my mom was drinking and pretty out if it so I put her to bed read her stories etc. Anyway not sure it’s the same thing
i think my charisma is tied up to my venus, 12th house conjunct chiron; i have to hide myself from the world, at times, be homebody, and dress down. My husband and ex’s and family members have said i have a gobton of charisma, and my childhood friends used to say how sweet, demure and innocent i looked, (back then LOL) and one called me i looked like sweet candy all ready to eat up LOL xD that was a funny one. I think it’s my virgo too (virginal innocence). I remember this one guy said to me, which surprised me, “you enjoy that guys fall in love with you, dont you?” wtf. He, infact was /had admitted he fell in love with me but was always angry that others would have done the same. My husband doesn’t mind it though, as long as my loyalty is to him. Im happy with his free kind of love that doesn’t feel restricted or accusatory, but in fact that he accepts and loves that about me. But i think charisma should be harnessed for good. If a public speaker then help others be persuaded for a noble cause.
both my parents were quite stylish and had alot of charisma i think, when they were younger. (too much jealousy between them, so it dissapated). If i had married a type of guy that always accused me of making men fall in love with me, i would probably end up miserable. (as an example – but i did marry similar types, which made me cry and miserable.) my grandparents if i recall, had charisma. However maybe there’s levels of it? they were kind gentle people.