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House systems

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(@jewel)
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Joined: 14 years ago

I know this is a HUGE topic and I am sure there are posts here, but I couldn't find it in the search. I have used Koch when I do my chart and find a lot makes sense for me. Recently have gone down the rabbit hole of exploring my Saturn. I look at 2nd and 3rd house because it is on the cusp. I find that resonates. In another astrology forum I was asking about Saturn in the 3rd and I got a very strong personality who pushed me hard that my Saturn was actually in the 4th according to evolutionary astrology. She did not let up about this. Ok some of her points were valid, but a lot of what I read about Saturn in the 4th didn't resonate. She kept coming back to mother issues. Well, that show up in other parts of the chart as well. Anyway, it became a thing and she pushed and pushed. I had to step away. My stating it didn't resonate didn't seem to matter to her. I felt she needed to be right even though she ended each post with peace and love. love and light. Please. in my opinion she was still being a bully about it. ANYWAY, it has once again raised this house system for me. The whole sign/equal sign astrologers make as super strong argument. Sure I can find elements of 4th house Saturn that make sense - the wishy washy Libra in me that has a hard time being emphatic about really any one thing. I am curious to other thoughts. How to reconcile the house system. How does one decide which house system works or in the end can it all apply in some form. Sure a little bit of 3rd house Saturn and a little bit of 4th house Saturn?? The house system is what turns me upside down with astrology especially when coming head to head with someone SO CONVINCED their system is the RIGHT one. Thoughts?

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Elsa
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 Elsa
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(@elsa)
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"How does one decide which house system works or in the end can it all apply in some form."

I also have Libra so I can relate to going back and forth.

I use Equal houses.  40 years ago everyone used Koch.  In the late 80's (in the USA), people began to play with Placidus.  It was considered "European" and this was a time when Americans began to believe that anything European was elevated in some way.

In the early 90's, the internet took hold, and astro.com dominated. Placidus was and is the default on that site. Koch quickly faded away.

I fluctuated between Koch and Placidus for awhile but then I ran into astrologer, Jayj Jacobs, whose work I admired. He was a strong proponent of Equal houses and a compelling individual.  There was no way I could witness his fervor on this topic and not at least check it out. So I did...

I started out printing three charts for everyone client or person I was working with. There was little difference between Koch and Placidus (when you're dealing with quantity), so I discarded Koch.

At that point, I printed two charts for every client and I did this for months and months and months and months.  I think it took me about two years to really, firmly decide that I was going with Equal.  I didn't want to do this because I knew it would make it hard for me... using a different system than "most".  But in the end, I had to.

I had to because *for me*, well, I never say Equal houses fail.  I mean what I'm saying. Never means never. So there was no way I could set that aside and go with what was popular. At that point, I committed to Equal.

This was about 20 years ago.  I work with A LOT of charts for 4 decades, so at this point, these charts stand up and dance. They talk to me.  Holding a chart in my hand, it just flows through me so...

I state my house system preference on my consult page.  I offer to use a person's personal house system of choice on my consult page but virtually no one asks me to. I'm talking many 1 person in 100... maybe less, wants me to use their house system. I probably lose business over this, by the way. But I don't care. Because I get results with Equal houses and I would get lesser results with another house system.

The house system does come up in some consultations. Generally people are swayed towards Equal, but often enough, they are convinced because of the sense of it.  But I'm telling you, it's because I've been doing this so, so, so long, with profound frequency. The chart in my hand is so closely tied to my brain, it's nearly supernatural.

With that said, I couldn't care less what house system a person likes. I have no interest in converting anyone. But you asked how to decide and there is your answer.  Smile

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(@jewel)
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Thank you for this! It does help. I guess ultimately have to work with my own chart and do the work to determine what fits.  I did start to look at what would shift with equal house and there are a lot shifts. Some elements ring true others don't.  I found 4th house Saturn resonates in some areas and not in others.  I mean I am Libra so sure I can probably make it work. Smile Although, I do have a hard time finding good information on life lessons of Saturn. The nodes and Sun shift houses as well and the nodes REALLy don't resonate. 
However, my piecing it together I find my lessons/teachers have been with bullies, communication, my truth combined with not really ever feeling I belonged anywhere because of the family I grew up in. I had speech impediment as a child.  I HAVE HUGE fear of speaking in public. LIKE LIFE AND DEATH fear. Something deep gets triggered. Anyway, not to wax on...sure I can probably tie all back to my mother, fmaily and ancestors, but family issues patterns have not been a major part of my life since I left home - it is more part of my history. I am novice so on one hand want to be open, but on the other at some point have to decide this is the system that works for me. It seems there really isn't one right house systems and there is elements of truth no matter what system is used. I can see as an astrologer though having to be definitive in what system you use.  ANyway, waxing on. Thank you for your answer to this!

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(@satsun)
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I was used to Placidus, but after reading here (especially Elsa's experience, as she describes above), I tried out charts in both Placidus and Equal. Now it does seem to me that Equal is closer to what is manifested in charts, including my own, which is where I started.

Sometimes there is not much difference, it is subtle, but it does make sense.

It might take a bit of time to get used to the idea. You can test it and see what feels best after a while.

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teeceedee7
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(@teeceedee7)
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As I'm listening to Carrie Fisher's Wishful Drinking, librasmily_giflooking for help with depression - and the misery loves company factor is beneficial.... I'm thinking as I look at my chart from an equal chart perspective.... This gives me a 3rd house Sun - all this time I've been navigating life with the idea I'm 4th house Sun.  This is akin to the electroconvulsive therapy Carrie speaks about - It just may be the electric current I need!!!   😛   😛

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NotMyCircus
Posts: 167
(@notmycircus)
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In Placidus, my Saturn is in the 8th house. In equal, it's on the 9th house cusp. My Saturn is in the late degrees of the sign.

This still confuses me because I had problems with getting credit cards during my Saturn Return, and I dealt with gut-churning fears for most of it. But then I look at the root of my life long issues (including 8th house issues) and see that they have ties to my belief system. Many of these beliefs were handed down to me by parents who had a black-and-white way of seeing things. This is right, this is wrong. I have had bad experiences with travel, too and I dropped out of college twice. 9th house.

In your case, Debbie, I see you mentioned a speech impediment (3rd house) and deep-seated fear of speaking in public (3rd house). So you could have a 3rd house Saturn, if you find yourself held back by 3rd house issues. I guess read the descriptions for both houses and see which fears resonate with you. 

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