These are amazing conversations and enlightening.
Penny Kelly books.
She is being criticized for her choice, but she decided to go in another direction and writes about it. I too had a scare and took another path. The problem disappeared. Although I don't recommend this for someone else, it worked for me. I took a trip to Florida and went through herb school. And I am so glad I did. Still, if I need a doctor I am going immediately. I believe in both. I am leaving this here because you were all speaking of this above.
Elle MacPherson claims she was very health conscious. But she also claims she was an addict. She says she exercised and ate the all the right foods but still got Cancer. I have been trying to explore why people who tout health, still get so sick.
The possibility of course is there that at some point in their life they were exposed to a carcinogen. And there are genetics to consider. In her case she was an alcoholic for years so that has to be considered? I have also been reading about emotions and pent-up anger. Being perpetually pissed off if you will.
If we are to consider nutrition, and all-around good health, what does it mean? Not just what you eat, but what you are exposed to both in... say drinking water... another example... things like roundup weed killer (just using as an example) and living in literal emotional hell.
Then I got this from the National Library of Medicine:
Not just lifestyle but the impact of psychological stress. With regards to psychological factors, the associations were also found for disharmonious marital status (95% CI: 1.06–1.26) and negative emotional experiences (95% CI: 1.03–1.29) with increased cancer risk. (impairs immune function)
There is a lot to consider. They clarified the relationship of lifestyle factors and psychological factors with health. And the importance of psychological factors in the prevention of early onset disease. It says personal pressure among cancer patients were significantly different from those who were healthy.
I can only add to this that living in a bad marriage was a no go for me. I left penniless because I knew what it was doing to me, and I had to be a mom before anything else. I was not about to compromise. For a time, I lived in a 'my way or the highway' type marriage. I took the highway. Broke af... but not sick. I had a 'who tf do you think you are talking to' attitude. There was no way I would have lasted in that.
At any rate I guess it all has to be considered. Not just nutrition but mental health. A person living in a constant state of discord can get sicker than someone who eats Doritos. My grandmothers lived until almost 90 and didn't eat the best all of the time, but they were mostly happy. Their hearts just finally gave out.
Then there is this meme: Genetics load the gun lifestyle pulls the trigger. If this is true, then why did she get Cancer?
Elle was ruthless in her pursuit of health and kind of snotty about people not being in the same shape she was in... but then became very sick and it took 7 years to fight it. The mystery is what caused it? I think we have to ask, right? I spent a lot of years in the gym. Most of my life actually. I felt a real empathy for women who were treated like shit by their husbands after they had babies, and their bodies changed.
According to a very broad classification, diseases can also be classified under the following – physical diseases, mental diseases, infectious diseases, non- infectious diseases, deficiency diseases, inherited diseases, degenerative diseases, social diseases, self-inflicted diseases. How are these tied to nutrition and or mental health?
@soup It’s so highly complex while also basic…and I am not minimizing any of it. Cancer is something that every one of us knows in some relationship, ours or a loved one’s. It’s so common, yet the things that have to line up for cancer to occur are seemingly intricate. At least I thought so. And it may be so. But the human body is also even more complicated, so perhaps it’s so common as to be preventable in many cases. And we know that is also true to some extent. There are things that are pretty straightforward, maybe less so but one can learn. The execution is always more difficult but certainly not impossible.
Thank you for sharing this.
@allie120 One of my favorite subjects! I love reading about it and learning all I can.
I only have myself to set against what I do and do not know personally. I know when my youngest son decided to act like an unruly teenager and I had to worry about where he was and what he was doing, I had shingles all over my back, all the time. My hair fell out in clumps, and I had to see a doctor for it once a month.
They called it alopecia areata and all they could do was give me shots in my scalp which hurt like hell once a month and hope I got better. The shots were steroid, and they caused me immune system failure and I suffered with shingles so often ... and shingles are painful.
You can't divorce your kid. Well, I guess you can, but then who tf are you, right?
So, for a few years I had to walk through this with him until he got his sea legs and wanted to do the right things, which he did, and all was eventually fine. But for that period of time, I was so emotionally tied to whether he would make it with the risks he was taking that I was pretty sick all the time. I was mentally taxed with worry which is different than what I had for my ex-husband which was... anger. I wanted to knock him out almost every day because living with him was like living with a drill sergeant .... do it this way, that way... Also, the man hit me, So I was being emotionally, financially and physically abused for around 10 years. (my way was, go fk yourself, I am out!)
If my kid had maintained his bad behavior, my health eventually would have completely failed even if I ate a balanced diet and went to the gym every day. Negative emotions directly affected my health. Same with my ex, but maybe a different kind of disease. What? I don't know. 5'3. 100 lbs. In the gym 5 days a week. I actually taught aerobics class for years and owned my own, it was my first business. But during that time, I was sick a lot. At one point so much of my hair fell out it looked like I was going through chemo and my boss at work told me I could wear whatever ... hats, scarves ... whatever I wanted on my head.
I know the man she had the kids with refused to marry her. She was with him for a long time, had his two sons and he cheated on her in the open the whole time. The billionaire dude she was with. You have to wonder if that is what caused her to be so sick, or did it play a role in what she went through? For me... my kids are my weakness and no matter what I am probably going to take it, and just get sick. But a man? HA... I would claw his eyes out.
Poorly managed negative emotions are not good for your health. Negative attitudes and feelings of helplessness and hopelessness can create chronic stress, which upsets the body's hormone balance, depletes the brain chemicals required for happiness, and damages the immune system.
I love the book: The body keeps score.
Adding a link to some good books on the subject. Recently, losing three key family members in a year took a toll on my health. It is obvious and you can see it. I've had to mourn three deaths in a very short period of time. Right now, as I type I am rebuilding once again. I ended up in the back of an ambulance in March.
The best books on the connection of unfelt emotion & illness (shepherd.com)
@soup Life is so delicate in so many ways. Then we rise above, not without scars, and we’re still here. Incredible.
Thank you for sharing with us, both your stories and your passions!
@soup I appreciate the provided book link. The link between our emotions and health is real. I can’t discount the fact that my stress/sadness has contributed to my current autoimmune condition.
I want to get on top of this and feel zen- like more often. I feel this, for me, is the key to better health.
People refer to 'The Body Keeps Score' as the bible of trauma literature. Bessel Van Der Kolk wrote it. He is a Dutch Psychiatrist.
It's very hard to be kind to people, to focus on your work, to love others when all your power is spent trying to pretend you don't feel like s*** (from a review of the book and I agree)
The connection between mind and body.
I found this book fascinating. Helpful to people who are experiencing chronic pain and autoimmune diseases.
I can eat apples all day long but if ......
@allie120 I agree with you. You have to come after it from all directions. Mind body and soul. Otherwise, I don't think you fully heal. I know I still have work to do. I am tired of it at this point, but I will still try.
This thread was a great idea. One person after the next has something useful to add... put it all together and 😊
You fully understand growing, how to handle and cook the food to maintain nutrition. And how to put it up for later. People need this information. I know for a fact you know how to balance necessary protein to carb nutrition. Hydration and how important it is but with the right kind.
@soup I’m really glad we can all share here because the circle is wider than we might have in our daily lives and everyone’s experiences and bents are diverse.
Ethanol is a carcinogen, according to Dr A, a PhD toxicologist. Dr A and I worked in the same department.
@sue-ellen That is what I am talking about Sue Ellen. Outside things we are exposed to. Even round up. 2nd hand cigarette smoke.... etc.
Debbie Reynolds died the day after Carrie died. These things matter.
My family tree is full of cancer. I counted 13 relatives with it. I was number 12 or so when I was diagnosed with breast cancer last year. I wasn't surprised to have a cancer diagnosis. In fact I expected it. I didn't expect it to be breast cancer. I expected colon (my mother) or lung (Mom's brother and father).
Between schooling for and working as a chemist, I was exposed to several carcinogens. I worked in a lab with warnings on the doors, "No unauthorized entrance allowed, carcinogens in use." When I related this information to my great aunt, she told me, "Get out of there. My doctor says the family should be studied for its high incidence of cancer." I did leave after a few years there. Looking back, I had more exposure in school than at work.
As a country, we overlook or forget the radiation release from above ground nuclear testing in the past mid-century. It spread on the wind. It didn't stay in the desert of the southeast. I remember seeing an orange sky. The local TV weatherman said it was from nuclear testing in the west and wasn't harmful to us. Why would people in Kentucky see an orange sky from testing in Nevada??? It's on the wind. -- That afternoon was the first time I heard someone question what we were told by people in positions of authority. -- Now, decades later, I wonder how many of us remember the above ground nuclear testing and the radiation released on our land.
Yes, I'm a survivor. Thanks for your comment.
Diagnosed Feb, '23. Hormone positive, HER2 negative. Stage 1. My ductal carcinoma was found on annual mammogram screening. Two surgeries, lumpectomies, the second to get clear margins. Followed by 5 high dose radiation treatments. On anti-estrogen meds for a minimum of 10 years. Follow up mammograms have all been negative.
My sister was diagnosed with breast cancer after me. Her tests were moved up because of me. She wasn't doing screening and was Stage 3.
My treatment was a walk in the park compared to what sister has gone through.
That's why I've said Pluto transit to our Cancer (breast) moons tried to kill us with breast cancer.
@sue-ellen see, I knew you were caring for others. Did not know you were sick yourself. I'm glad you're both okay!!
@elsa Thank you. I was recovered when I started taking sister to appointments and stayed with her post op. We're all relieved sister has started driving again and can take herself. She still has treatments to go.
@sue-ellen A chemist. Sue Ellen. Respect for your job! That had to be interesting work.
My DIL's family has a high rate of cancer too. Different kinds. Her mother is going through lymphoma, father passed right after her, was suffering from bladder with Mets. So many others and too many to list but all with cancer.
My family all passed with heart disease. Knowing, I have tried to do the things to support myself, but can we really stop it? I am not sure.
My stepdad passed from lung, so did his parents.
The Nevada test site is still contaminated. Still in the water and in the soil. They didn't stop until 1963. I don't understand wind patterns, but we can all be sure that radiation made a visit. I also don't understand how long it takes for something like this to cause Cancer or other illness to manifest in a human body... and why yours or my neighbors, but not my mother?
We are all people, but we are surely different in this regard. That is why I say that while one person may look at another and just assume they are fat, and that this is because they sit and eat candy all day, it may very well be for one hundred different reasons and 99 of them they cannot help. No more than they can help having brown or blue eyes. They can only try to work with what they have. And while I do recognize that our food is in many ways trash by comparison and that the obesity epidemic is at an all-time high, there are people even so, that will never gain a pound.
I do remember you speaking of your BC diagnosis and your journey to the other side, and the visits you made with your sister as she went through chemo. You seemed much more worried about your sister which doesn't surprise me.
I deal with something quite different. I have to be very mindful of my emotional wellbeing. And I am mindful of it daily. Much more so now, than ever before because I am older, and I don't have the same immune system I had 25 years ago.
I just took an interest in something called broken heart syndrome. I knew I would lose my parents. But it still hurt. Losing my daughter in law has been devastating to my health. I took her in at age 16. I was with her almost every day for so many years. I always referred to her as my first girl. Then watching my child and my grand fold under this tragedy was as much as a person can stand, I think, at least for me. And I had to hide it, for them. We lost her in November, by March I was in the hospital, and they ran every test. My blood pressure 200/100 with no reason they could find. No build up in my arteries, no blood clots, they couldn't find a thing... except this loss. I was showing physical signs, shortness of breath, and a racing heart, high blood pressure and chest pain... along with dizziness and nausea. They thought I was having a heart attack. I was not.
Broken heart syndrome - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
One family member said to me, why can't you just get over it. I was tired. Just tired of this kind of talk. And someone feeling comfortable enough to say something like this to me with no regard to why it happened in the first place. So, my response was this... I will be over it I assume as soon as you get over being an alcoholic and addicted to pills and of course being an asshole. It could have been worse; I could have said much more. Today, I take up for myself which has been a lot of what my Venus square transit has been about.
I love how you care about your siblings, your husband, your neighbor with the hip. You are so kind Sue Ellen.
@soup Thank you, my husband is much kinder than me.
I admire your compassion and love of your family.
@sue-ellen I used to think things were simple. You eat too much or eat the wrong things.... well, that is the answer as to why you are .... (fill in the blank to whatever a person wants to say about another person)
You don't exercise enough. Or eat enough of this list of foods.
If it were only that simple. No two people are alike. No two people have the same genetics to start with. One family may be prone to diabetes. Different metabolic diseases. Spin the wheel and now you are born and here is the family gene pool... deal with it.
But the prejudice is there. You are fat because you don't do what I do. Which is bullshit.
You are sick because.... well, we don't know why they are sick. So many things factor in. Exposure, emotions, life tragedy, genetics and lifestyle.
Every one of us are one diagnosis from not having an opinion.
Exercise class was fun. One of the gals who was a regular is turning 101 years old today. She continues to lie in the house where she was born. Apparently, there is a picture of the house in the public library. All the family is in the picture and she is the youngest "little thing".
I was invited to play Bunco today. I'm going to think about it. Once a month game.
Also there was a new woman, honestly, I was not listening to the conversation but I was informed, she's just a blunt person. This caused her to march over to me and say, "I'll tell you the hogs eat the cabbage!"
I laughed, but hey! I was runnin' with a gal who told people, "I'll tell you how the monkeys comb their hair." back when I was a teenager.
It really is fun. Non-stop stories as we do what we do. There was another lady, walking to step class and doing the class, then walking home. She 88 now and has finally quit.
@elsa Sounds fantastic. I’ve read that exercising whilst socialising increases longevity. Both body and mind are stimulated 😎.
Such interesting conversations and info in this thread. What has puzzled me is the people who got cancer or other diseases around me, had healthy stats (eg BMI, cholesterol, BP) and also ate nutritiously. I think it’s got to be at a DNA level (eg. genetic mutations), that disease can arise. A combination of genetics and environmental factors, to be precise.
Good nutrition can boost our immunity and put us in a stronger position to fight disease but it certainly cannot always prevent disease. If you eat well, don’t drink and exercise you will be in a stronger position to fight any disease (if it’s caught early enough).
The Biopsychosocial model of disease should be mentioned as well. It basically purports that disease arises from the interaction of our biology and our psycho- social well being. This really makes sense to me. Good health has to include our emotional and mental well being. If we take steps to eat well in combination with exercise, meditation and maintaining friendships, this would probably be the pinnacle of good health.