My husband and I were coming off years of intense difficulty. The kind you don’t even speak of.
“I wouldn’t worry about that,” I said. “We are in impossible conditions, trying to have a life. I have been in impossible conditions myself, for nine years. The conditions were completely impossible but I still managed to have some kind of life.”
“Yep,” he said.
“You’ve been in impossible conditions for nearly as long as I have. Your conditions have been as bad as mine but you’ve also managed to have a life. You’ve managed to have a life in spite of the conditions which anyone in their right mind would recognize are completely impossible and beyond the pale.”
“Yep.”
“So we both know what it is like and I can’t imagine us getting together and either one of us creating the kind of conditions that would make it hard for a person to live after what we’ve both been through. Can you?”
“No, I don’t think we would.”
“Right. It’s not going to happen. We are the last people on this planet who create conditions that would make another person miserable. I wouldn’t do it for all the tea in China. You?”
“Uh uh.”
“So don’t worry then. We will be looking out for each other, we don’t know any other way.”
Saturn / Capricorn types are frequently deeply compassionate as a result of their struggles. Have you met this side of Saturn?
Compassionate, but not pitying at all.
That is an excellent distinction, Stephanie.
Hmm. I find Capricorn very compassionate, but not on demand. Which is important to know, and very honest of them.
Hmm, in my experience, it depends what else they have in their chart…
They certainly can LEARN to be compassionate, if shown the way… (by a sensitive water sign 😉
So, Elsa, by observation of your archives and your Saturn transit progression from the 7th to a firm placement in the 8th, would this kind of us-against-the-world type thing be a manifestation of that?
Avery – that had not occurred to me. I was just making a general observation. I would not create bad conditions for anyone and either would he so by default we would be considerate of each other.
This is what I meant rather than to make some kind of statement. Neither of us feel people are out to get us. I’m just saying if you have been forced to live in difficult circumstances, some people have compassion… a sensitivity to whatever they have endured so they are loathe to inflict it on someone else.
Sort of like being beaten when you are a child and then not beating children. It is widely applicable rather than having to do with our specific interaction. So it was a comment on what I know is real when it comes to our characters.
For example, people heap shit on me all the time. Why do they do it? Do they not know what that feels like? Apparently not, in many cases. So this means you are dealing with ignorance more than anything else.
No, that’s not what I was getting at… it’s the combined resources (strength and loyalty) and agreement of mutual protection against uncontrollable conditions I was wondering about. Sorry, I didn’t word that in the best way. Probably still not. But really, you guys have powerfully allied yourselves against the powers that be. That’s got to be just an awesome feeling, that you’re not truly alone in this anymore.
I got half of that, Avery and I agree with it, thanks! 🙂
Okay, so you’re going to get sick of my questions. 🙂 I am studying with the goal to be a really good astrologer someday, and I want to be able to counsel someone whose Saturn is transiting their 8th. Are you in the process of defining shared power and protection? Can I use your example to tell them (and yes, me) that there is light at the end of Saturn in the 7th? That there is a reward for defining relationships, and that truly, truly sharing the deep-rooted stuff is the payoff?
“They are on automatic pilot in a way, with their ruts and patterns and blind spots and trigger points and lack of insight.”
yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Capricorn experiences this and can recognize it in others, which in turn produces a no frills kind of compassion.
They will help you by teaching you how to help yourself, not by giving handouts. Saturn doesn’t allow for the unlimited compassion and empathy – that is Pisces/Neptune! With Saturn there are always boundaries and limits, even with compassion.
Nope, not seen much compassion in Capricorn unless other things indicate it. Sense of obligation, maybe, but not much compassion.
so true
Yes, my Capricorn brother is the picture of empathetic, non-pitying compassion (and good humor too). One of the finest people I know. And he grew into it. It didn’t really come till his 20s and 30s, after he’d had some rough times.
Once they’ve learned to have compassion for themselves, yes.
Well, I don’t know if this applies to my moon in Capricorn square Saturn….
but, I have a deep amount of compassion. It’s embarassing sometimes, how easily I feel for others. I haven’t been through a lot in my life, mostly family issues (dad and mom), but the compassion has always been there. Besides times of raging anger when I was a teen, I cannot imagine inflicting pain on other souls. That just wouldn’t be me.
There are a handful of people who I hide it from though, who I don’t want to see such vulnerability in me. It’s very draining. And it’s very true, it’s a non-pitying, non-giving handouts type of compassion. You just hope that people find a way to help themselves.
the capricorn in me thanks you for seeing this 🙂
either compassionate or totally hard hearted. it’s an odd extreme. sometimes both seen in the same person within moments.
though at it’s best it can be a remarkably effective form of “tough love.”
I love Stephanie’s description. It fits so well!
Avery I have Saturn in my 7th (placidus) and 8th (koch) and feel like I am very well-equipped to deal with relationships.
I recently finished my first S. Return and learned even more…
Saturn is a wonderful, beautiful teacher if and when a person is ready. Basically a person needs to accept there is no ‘get out of jail free card’ and things improve. Exponentially.
I have a strong saturn and strong libra and therefore I do not do well with capricorn, but somehow capricorn is always in my life.
Even if I try I cannot avoid it, and this is, I think, what the capricorn is about.
That’s why I’m feeling like adding something to this old post.
I have always met the very worst side of capricorn, so I am surprised to see compassion as one of its attribute.
I have met capricorn pushing you down with all theyr strenght with no positive intent.
I have seen them avoiding grace with every mean. I have strong saturn myself, but I would never attack anybody for free as I wittnessed capricorn do.
Maybe I just had no luck with them, but I cannot help thinking cap is overrated.
Somewhere in the blog I read “venus cannot do much without mars”, I think mars on the other side can do damage without venus.
I hope I’m not annoing anybody with this personal complain, I guess I’m still looking for a way to relate to it, since I keep having them around (family or work).
My problem is that I have lots of venus and being around them it’s so depriving; I cannot express myself…they just do not need so much venus.
And as this comes out in the relationship there’s a specific path taking pleace: “If I cannot like/love you (the way I want), I will openly dislike you”.
Elsa said, “You have managed to have a life in spite of the conditions which anyone in their right mind would recognize are completely impossible and beyond the pale.”
I have a very long time Cappy Sun friend (male) who has been a loyal and compassionate soul in my life and the life of my family. For decades this old friend who cries at the drop of a hat and is a the Cosmic Social Worker. No idea what the rest of his natal chart is …but I do know he thanks his Pisces partner everyday for the good he brings to his mountain climbing.
What I have learned as a Capricorn Moon with lots of Saturn throughout my nativity is that he and I both have been in horrendous places in life … for long periods of time. The compassion that you get after decades of rolling in that stuff is a very real acceptance for life in the raw. It isn’t always or almost always gonna be nice. The illusion of that falls away and then life happens big, bold, bloodied and glorious at different moments.
Cappy/Saturn teaches me that not everyone feels compassion. Pity is not compassion as has been said here and when I finally experienced pity when I really bounced along the bottom of a long deep hole I got that important distinction… and (Kashmiri) there is no ‘get out of jail free card’.
I am careful not to pity others … if a guy stands at the stop sign with a cardboard sign I no longer 1) pretend I don’t see him 2) read the sign. If I have change or dollars to spare I roll down my window and hand it to him/her and say something real. I’ve been there and that makes for compassion in this Cappy/Saturn woman.
Elsa, my first comment vanished. Trying again. Moderate at will haha…
I have a very long time pal Capricorn Sun. Throughout the decades this guy has been a loyal and compassionate friend to me and my family. When I was living on the streets this is the guy with his Pisces mate who took us in, held me to his large frame and said, “It’s okay,” while crying through his tears. Yes, I know the compassion of Capricorn.
My Capricorn Moon has become a great teacher and source of resiliency. I didn’t give it the attention necessary to benefit from this 12th house placement until my Saturn return near my 60th birthday laid me on my back and yes, I saw stars*** I used to live without distinquishing between compassion and pity. There were lessons to learn. Life has done that.
Today I am careful to not pity others, or own dear self. When I see a man/woman standing at the stop sign with a cardboard sign I don’t 1) pretend I don’t see him/her 2) read the sign. I dig for any change I have or a buck if I have it, roll down my window and smile while I hand it. It’s not a hand-out. It’s a hand of a woman whose been there. It’s compassion.
Sorry, Mokihana, it is not moderation, you just went into the spam filter along with some others. Sorry, it has a mind of it’s own…. literally:
https://elsaelsa.com/astrology/2009/03/13/behind-the-scenes-elsaelsa-regarding-the-comments-and-the-spam-filter-on-this-blog/
Geez … there they both are!?;O
I was watching a movie the other night, “The Great Debators” and I was struck by what a great performer Denzel Washington is, but I think he may be just like that in real life….he is a Capricorn and in this movie a great example of one and in other movies too…that same persona comes out…tough guy, goes through hell, but in a nano-second, faster that a mosquito can blink, he is deeply compassionate….you know that this quality is deep within him. He is a teacher as are most Capricorns/Saturn types….they want to show you the way….they are the ones to carve out the path with their machetes so that others can find their way through the jungle of life.
I’ve got a Sun/Saturn/Asc thing going on and I find that, as someone pointed out above, I had to learn to be kind to myself before I could truly be kind to others.
But yes, I am very conscious of “I know how that feels and don’t want to do that to someone else.”
Very interesting post and feedback here!
The people I have known with Capricorn prominent (Sun, ASC, Moon) have been evil creeps who purposely inflict as much nastiness on people as they possibly can. So, I am very wary of Capricorn.
On the other hand, I have Saturn Aquarius 12th conj Venus conj ASC. I learned very early not to cause trouble for anyone because I figured Karma would get me. Why people do this is something I still can’t figure out.
I attribute this more to my Moon, Chiron, Mercury and Jupiter in Pisces, though. I can’t hurt someone because I don’t like those feelings.
I don’t even purposely cause trouble for my ex, and have helped him with paperwork I keep because I am organized and he is not. However, revenge is a different animal, and I’ll get mine by using “success is the best revenge.”
My mom’s heavy on both capricorn planets as well as saturn aspects. Reading this makes sense in light of how she is. She is an exceptionally kind woman who would NEVER put her shit on anyone else: she bears it all bravely and I think is a true champion, in some ways.
The downside of this is that capricorns’ tough love can be misunderstood or misinterpreted as cold and unsympathetic. I CAN think of times when a bit of sympathy might be more effective than the no-nonsense tough love of capricornians… With heavy saturn aspects myself, I’m the first to admit that I can be tough on the tough love stuff I dish out – and this is in serious contrast to the pisces/neptune energy I’ve got going on. 🙂
Sometimes what others construe as tough love is no sympathy and direct inquiry and instruction in working though a difficult time. It’s pragmatic to me and cuts to the chase. That is the Capricorn feel that I know. It’s not soggy which pity can be (water). If you have been through a tough time it can make you come across as unsympathetic because you know REAL and POWERFUL difficulties. Not the my girlfriend/boyfriend was mean to me stuff…
I have a 12th house Sun square Saturn. Saturn also conjuncts Mars and Pluto, opposes my Moon, squares Mercury and my ascendant and sextiles Neptune. Sun. I was born old. If I look at it objectively, I have struggled all my life, but I have Jupiter in Sag opposite Venus and somehow I am very positive and cheerful person who sees the glass as half full. I handle my own baggage quietly and always assume others have their own which they are handling as best they can. People don’t dump on me that much, thankfully. I always give the benefit of the doubt, rarely get angry and can’t sustain anger for any length of time. I believe my life struggle has made me more compassionate over the years. I think this also has to do with having no planets in water signs, too. I’m evenly divided between earth, air and fire. I’m compassionate but not maudlin.
I notice that my testing has been deleted – no explanation given – have I been unofficially banned?
No, you’re not banned! I have no idea what is going on – we’re having problems with the site and have for weeks now. Definitely not personal! 🙂
Oh – ok then. 🙂
Here’s an example of Capricorn and Saturn bearing up over time. Reading my ’08 comment nearly 4 yrs later. Time turns things over.
Love this side of Capricorn. Soulful, solid in any crisis, don’t need to change anyone, can sit with things that would terrify others…compassion deep as the earth. It’s not cuddly but it’s profound.
I believe, I hope, I’m a compassionate person. I do have a ton of Cap/Saturn, and my Saturn aspects most of my personal planets (squares and opps) as well as being Rx.
I’m a good listener – but yes, tough love is often a necessary response for me. I have little sympathy for repeated self-inflicted damage (eg addictions) while having endless compassion for those who’ve suffered childhood trauma, bereavement, chronic ill health, loss in love and so forth.
I doubt I’d be so compassionate if I hadn’t been through a load of sh*t myself. I married my ex, a Cap Moon, mainly for his kindness and compassion, btw. He had a pretty hard like too, esp as a kid
i’ve seen it go two ways- one is the blaming others and resentment of everyone who has what they didn’t have…
and the other is this, the compassion. though i’d differentiate it from neptunian compassion… more an awareness of the struggle common to mant people’s lives, or something to that effect?
Eris, Perhaps like Abraham Lincoln?
I meant the latter aspect, of course, for Lincoln.
And I do agree that both sides can be present in the same person. I have always been deeply compassionate of people’s suffering, and the field I work in does reflect this. (Capricorn moon, Venus square Saturn.) However, on a personal level, I have to have strong boundaries because listening to too many troubles can lead to depression. Also I can’t stand to be around selfish people who expect everything to be given to them — especially if that is combined with self-pity about trivial matters. Get a grip!
I believe in everyone who says that cap is not compassionate. Maybe if you are their blood and i mean like mother father or son daughter will you ever get any kind of compassion from them. Even then it could only be due to deep sense of obligation. Even then it’s all about tough love and sucking the happiness out of you.
Really silly to expect compassion from a cap. They wouldn’t recognize it if it beat them on the head
At first I was going to say “no”…and then I realized that I HAVE met the compassionate side of Saturn here on the boards, as well as real life.
One person I used to work with was a Capricorn, and you’d think Cap and Libra would not get along, right? Wrong!! We were a great team and our bosses tried to keep us together whenever possible. (She works somewhere else now.)
I have Saturn at 29 degrees CApricorn in the sixth house. The answer to your question is yes I am.
As a Cap yes, I have so much compassion that I have a hard time relating to those who lack it.
My Cap friend is a natural empath with Pisces moon n I believe Scorpio asc n He drinks himself intobonlivion cuz he feels so much more n there’s an old picture of us..he blinds himdrl….
Daughter of a Capricorn sun and moon mother who was capable of extreme compassion and also profound cruelty, particularly if she felt you made her look bad.
Which, in my case, I did just by existing.