I wanted to talk about the shadow-side of talent, so I called my friend, Ben. He’s a Scorpio artist who has worked in the arts for decades.
We got talking about charisma. Ben mentioned instinctual actors like, Marlon Brando, Warren Beatty and James Dean. He mentioned Maria Callas as examples of people who have that IT quality. Never mind their flaws or lack or classical technique. Audiences love them.
“Can you imagine, Marlon Brando in a supporting role in a movie?” he asked. “He couldn’t do it. He’s too charismatic; he’s got to play the lead.”
Ben has charisma himself. He said that as embarrassing as it is to say so, whenever he watched films of performances, his eye was always drawn to himself. This is the case regardless if he were playing in a trio, a quartet or as part of symphony orchestra.
I am sure this is the case because he once told me that most all the donations that came in to support the various orchestras he’s played with, are donated to his chair. Consequently, when these organizations have needed money, they have used him (Scorpio energy) to raise it. Specifically, they take his picture because he plays his cello barefoot in all circumstance. You can imagine how people get a kick out of this and out comes the wallet. Ben couldn’t get away with that if he did not have so much charisma.
Chiron rules charisma. Ben has Chiron conjunct his ascendant in Aquarius, so you can see how his quirk plays well. Marlon Brando has Chiron conjunct his Sun, Moon and Mercury in Aries and it’s easy to see how his charisma is related in his raw male energy (Aries).
Are you charismatic? Where is Chiron in your chart?
I keep forgetting about the charismatic aspect of Chiron- I see the teacher, the outsider but the charismatic..? keep forgetting that one..
Chiron in Aries in the 10th square Mars in the 1st in Cancer.. I think I best turn to the more conventional charismatic areas of my chart such as that Mercury thing on the Asc (from the 12th) And maybe my Uranus square ASC… those seem to lend a charisma but fast lived.
Cool! I had no idea that Chiron ruled charisma.
My Chiron (in Pisces) touches quite a bit in my chart, it’s conjunct my Jupiter, Mars, & Mercury and trine my Scorpio Moon/Neptune/AC.
“he plays his cello barefoot in all circumstance.”
Ok, I love this.
I didn’t know Chiron ruled charisma. Of course, I may be confusing that with charm which I attribute to Venus/Mars or Venus/Merc. But anyway.
I don’t see myself as charismatic. I have chiron in Aries 2nd house opposing my mars/uranus in Libra 8
Chiron exactly conjunct Mars in Aries. Also conjunct Jupiter. 8th house.
I didn’t know Chiron ruled charisma — that is really very interesting. I do have it and feel the wound of having it.
Chiron in the first (Taurus) conjunct AC, trine MC, sun; op Uranus.
Yes, I have an odd magnetism. Also Venus/Pluto. It gets interesting. Customers, especially the unbalanced or insane ones, latch onto me like a lifeguard (and try to drown me). Meanwhile, as I try and deal with that, the co-workers are also demanding my attention, asking what this person’s problem is (insinuating that I have done something to cause the behavior).
In other, less extreme examples, it ranges from all kinds of reactions (including hate). On very strange days it’s like the movie Love Potion #9. The rest of the time, it’s pretty nice, although you HAVE to back up the magic with structure. I have to limit my commitments, circle of friends. Because the expectations for performance based on promise are very strong. Them: “…but I LOVE you!”. Me: “Thank you? But I just met you. And my boyfriend wouldn’t like it.”.
Most of the time, I can just smile at someone, and they smile and glow a little. Men and women, but especially kids/pets. It only works if I mean it, though. (balance)
My Chiron is part of an earth grand trine, 1st house Cappy Venus,9th house Virgo Mars and 5th house Taurus Chiron.
I am noticeable. 😛
Ben is good looking, mixed race, intelligent, clever and well spoke, even though he hates, hates, hates and dreads the public eye. He’s also got old school manners, though and this has been a winning ticket for fundraising for years.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuo7GFXa0k
This is for you, since you always mention Ben. ?
Thank you! 🙂
I have sen this guy perform live and he’s really cool in an Aquarian way.
Chiron Pisces 1st Conj Moon and Trine Neptune Scorpio 9th.
Hello, my name is Isernia, and I have low self-esteem. If I have charisma, I’ve never used it to my advantage.
I do send tractor beams out to all the needy people. If they are a Pisces woman especially, chances are they will want to be my new best friend (then they will stab me in the back).
I think any charisma I had peaked before this last marriage. Now I just feel like a wrung-out dishrag. I need to either move to the ocean, or marry a foreigner or something! Maybe then I’ll feel charismatic!
Chiron rules charisma? I know people with prominent Chiron but I always ended up attributing it to other factors in their chart. Maybe it’s chiron plus other factors that add up to charisma?
I have chiron in the 10th square retrograde jupiter in the 1st & trine Mercury and Saturn, and I don’t think I’m charming or charismatic.
That might explain Bill Clinton, but I always attributed that
an entire stellium of Libra planets in the first house.
My father has Chiron conjunct his Scorpio ascendant, but he also has a Kite in Fire. Hmm.
@ Elsa – I’m a Euro-American meltpot (I am fair skinned but got a lot of the Italian and Cherokee/Sioux bone structure). I also loathe public eye and am pretty formal in etiquette, for an art kid. I also tend to find myself on stage and doing well. Aqua moon vs Leo mars helps. (not as much OFF stage.)
@ Isernia – lol. You have not lost your charisma. Virgo sun giggles re: Pisces. I am a sucker for the fishes. The good ones are soooo delish, though.
Marlon could theoretically play a supporting role, but hed always end up stealing the movie.
My Chiron is in 12th H about 8 degrees out from my Sun in Taurus, on the cusp of 11th and 12th houses. Would that mean that, like my Sun its pretty hidden and behind the scenes?
Some people have told me i should be in movies and that i have some kind of charisma, but i dont feel it or think that really. I think when it does manifest its a kind of uncomfortable intensity.
This post is timely. I’ve begun looking at family charts and one of the first aspects I notice in my brother’s chart is Chiron conjuct his 10H MC, exactly. I don’t know this might mean but it seems significant.
Betty Page had chiron conj ASC & Marilyn Monroe had chiron conj MC (as did Ava Gardner).
*Bettie
The most charismatic of my old loves is the Italian, who had Chiron in Aries (prob H9), but not conjuncting anything. In fact it’s 10˚ from his Taurus MC and 15˚ from his Taurus Sun
He was very good looking, tall – over six ft – with piercing blue eyes, and he vibrated with raw energy both ‘male’ and intellectual. He too did some acting and modelling when young – and he survived a German concentration camp, which most of his peers did not, imo from sheer personal qualities. In any social situation, he was the focus, and the ‘king’, no question.
I have Chiron conjunct my Taurus ASC. I never really considered myself charismatic, but it makes sense. I can light up a room, but mostly when it’s full of people I know.
I’m not sure that its charisma, but my presence in person somehow has others feel at home and at peace and Ive contributed that to my 4th house chiron in pisces.
I know a few charimatic folk tho so now im going to check out there charts to look into the chiron affect
;0
I didn’t know that about Chiron either!
Mines in aries at the reaction point of my Taurus mars Pisces sun Uranus libra yod… Hmmm I’m gonna have to take a fresh look at my chart with this in mind 🙂
I’ve never heard this before. I’ll have to check the charts of two of the most charismatic men on the planet. Bill Clinton and Sean Connery. I’ve heard stories about the impact of the aura of these men. I had one client who went to a dinner party with Clinton, and he said his personal energy and charisma was so strong that it was literally palpable. I’ve heard the same thing said of Connery. Lets’ see…..Connery has Chiron sextile Pluto and trine his Moon. Not really that much Chiron. Clinton has chiron conjunct jupiter in the first house. That makes sense, although i think it also has a lot to do with his moon in the 8th house and mars venus rising. Connery has a strong 8th house too.
Chiron in Pisces is trine neptune/moon conjunction in scorpio in the tenth; from the second. Also opposed pluto/uranus in the eighth.
Charisma. Yes, people notice me to the point that I’ve learned to turn it down: I turn it down on purpose and don’t use it indiscriminately because I can take over just about any stage you’ve got.
When I was a kid I could never figure out why people were looking at me all the time; as a young woman I learned that there are some huge downsides to attracting attention to yourself. Now I don’t use it unless it seems safe to do it. If you’re aware and have mars square neptune; after a while you figure out mostly you don’t know a damn thing and you better stop talking before people start listening to you; because they actually will.
exactly conjunct the cusp of the fourth house opposite uranus creating a grandsquare with ASC/DC…probly not so much.
Obama has in 1st/Pisces.
Lots of the men I know also have charisma when in Aries (yup) or for me, Gemini. Gemini Chiron might be a personal taste.
@Rachael-Chiron conj MC can make a great teacher. 🙂
Chiron in the 7th and I have always had partners who are more charismatic. Projection, I suppose.
Retrograde Chiron in 0 Taurus, 8th/9th house depending on house system. It’s conjunct my SN, and opposing my Mars and NN/Venus/Uranus, trining my Ascendant.
Yes, I’ve been told I have charisma. For instance, when I was singing at a choir of 50-60 people as a teenager, people would come to tell me afterwards how they had noticed me, and my passion for singing. The interesting thing is, that while I appreciated it, it felt natural to me to be noticed. I think I’ve been a performing artist in several lifetimes before this one.
Eh, I have Chiron conjunct Sun (on desc.), but I would not describe myself as charismatic. I’m charming enough when you chat with me, I suppose, but I apparently have no acting/singing talent whatsoever. Very disappointing when you have Mars in Leo. I don’t think I rivet a room, but then again, except for my wardrobe I am usually keeping myself on the down low in a room rather than taking it over. It doesn’t seem like a good idea to rule the room.
Most of my exes were not charismatic, but I did date one who had pretty much every woman (except one) he ever met swooning somehow. I’m not sure why because I’d probably describe him as mildly charismatic at best– he was no Clinton sort.
Fascinating to read who people find charismatic – I agree about Sean Connery, but Clinton?… he leaves me totally cold: doughboy, ham actor, fake charm: he’s everything I don’t want in a man 😉
Anyways… my own Chiron: conjunct my Jupiter/Juno in Libra, and the fulcrum of many T-squares. Also trines my Uranus in H10 and almost trines my MC… and there’s a minor aspect to my Asc.
Sometimes I have charisma in abundance, sometimes none. It’s very strange. Maybe that’s due to most of the numerous aspects from my Chiron being squares to my personal planets (Sun, Venus, Mers, Saturn)
Wow talk about good timing. Just last night I realized an intense synastry I had with someone. His Chiron is in Aries conjunct his Sun. My Chiron is in Gemini conjunct my Descendant (opposing my Jupituer-Uranus in Sag). Another intense relationship has the man’s Chiron on my Jupiter which makes a Chiron opposite Chiron connection.
I guess my placement means I am a charismatic lover or foe? I am able to communicate (Gemini) my attraction (7th) to them charismatically?
I’ve got Chiron at 16 degrees Aries in the 12th. It is opposite Uranus at 16 degress Libra in the 6th, if that means anything. Not sure.
I don’t feel charismatic or attractive but I always seem to get random attention – if I’m in a crowd and someone yells “hey! you there!” for some reason all eyes seem to fall to me. I’ve had strangers approach me and say hi for no apparent reason – I could be in a group of really attractive friends and I am the only one approached – usually after “hi” comes “can you help me?” and a sob story. I’m the one wackos amd drunks on the subway gravitate towards, if someone is going to faint or puke at a concert I’m usually who they are standing next to, and wherever I go – govt office or grocery store – people always approach me with questions until I stop them and say “I don’t work here”. They are usually quite suprised and little miffed that I can’t help!
I was once photocopying at the library minding my business WITH MY BACK TO EVERYONE and a man walked up, tapped me on the shoulder, and said “Excuse me, but I just have to tell you, you have the most beautiful eyebrows! Will you go out with me?”
Um, no.
For some reason I just can’t be anonymous, and I don’t like this. I’d like to just go out and be left alone… for once!!!!
Thanks Elsa for the interesting tidbit. I have Chiron (12th House) conjunct my Aries Asc. I don’t know if I’d describe myself as charismatic, but I have an interesting Pied Piper effect on elementary age children. Now, if I can only get it to work with men. Lol!
I don’t have charisma. Chiron is all alone in aquarius in my 8th house. OTOH, my #2 daughter has charisma in spades. Chiron conj with her sun in the 12 house in cancer.
Yes I have charisma, I’ve been told that my whole life, but I know it anyway:)
Chiron in 5th opposing Uranus/MC, conjunct Mercury.
huh. totally explains that chiron rising guy i used to know… never realized chiron was part of THAT. always thought more of the hermeticist pat….
30 degrees from my jupiter and my midheaven. i’m not sure if that’s really worth counting.
the only thing that comes close to aspecting my jupiter, though.
(hermeticist part. my keyboard is going…)
I have Chiron rising in Sag. conjunct the GC (and, I believe at the Chiron discovery rising degree). I seem to have negative charisma.
You can’t buy charisma, but Ben’s sure does sell 😉
Huh. I always thought Leo ruled charisma. If it really is Chiron, then I don’t have to feel too bad about it being 8 degrees from my Sun 🙂
I have Chiron in the 10th. I always thought this meant I would grovel in poverty until I die. I can’t see how this makes me charismatic in 10th house matters.
Chiron – Charisma ….this is great i was just lamenting bad luck that befell me and cursing transiting Neptune & Chiron over my 1 house, thinking that Chiron is a big ol’gaping wound, turns out its cause i have charisma i am ostricized hahaha. My natal Chiron is quite prominent right on my IC opposition Uranus on my MC, trining Cap ASC and Saturn in 8th all pretty tight orbs ufffff
This guy sounds amazing, mostly because he has my chart. I also hate the public eye.
My Chiron is in Gemini, and you should hear me talking when I’m upset. It sounds like a record spinning backwards and out of control. Nothing ugly, just fast and nonsensical and in pain. I sing when I’m upset as well.
I’m not sure how Chiron in the 5th house describes my charisma, but I trust you.
I have Chiron conjunct my Aries sun in the 10th.
Am I charismatic? Maybe?
(Transiting Pluto has been conjoined with my natal Capricorn Mars for a while now, I am not sure who I am anymore. Ask me again after I am done being transformed. 😐 😉
I have a question about my chiron actually. My moon and ascendant is 5 degrees libra, my chiron is 9 degrees gem and in opposition my saturn (which is 5 degrees sag). SO, aspect wise is this very significant? On the chart it seems to make some sort of triangle. My jupiter is 18 degrees aquarius, and sextiles my sag uranus (19 degrees) and my uranus is opposite my gem chiron. It seems to make one of those weird triangle things too.. but is this of any significance?
I wonder where Anthony Hopkins’ Chiron is? The only movie I’ve ever seen of his that wasn’t an “Anthony Hopkins movie” was A Lion in Winter! (That was totes a Katherine Hepburn movie. *grins*)
@Chandra,
The triangle your moon-Saturn-Chiron makes is a t-square. The triangle your Uranus-Chiron-Jupiter makes is called lots of different things (I call ’em a cradle, but they’re also a wedge and a few other things). And, yes, they’re significant! 🙂 If you post your chart and ask on the boards (boards.elsaelsa.com), you’re likely to get someone who can help explain these aspect patterns to you.
Thanks I appreciate you helping.. I don’t know how to load my chart, i was trying to do that earlier, and I don’t think I’m doing it right LOL oh well I’ll figure it out.
NP, Chandra. 🙂
I made a board post about my chiron aspects. Thanks to Diablo helping me I learned how to load my chart (kind of, I think), but here is my chart if anyone wants to gander at what my chiron aspects mean. Bc it totally confuses me!
Never thought of it before like this! I always thought chiron was pain and a sore spot, which I definitely have on show. Chiron conjunct ascendant square Jupiter opposite Saturn. I draw attention, but not in a charming way. 🙂
To my own surprise, I can actually be quite charismatic. Much as my inclination is to hide in a corner, if you put me on stage I can really shine. Or a leadership position, much as I don’t much enjoy it.
Chiron conjunct my Gemini Sun.
huh. nice to hear a few good words about chiron.
helps me to get a better handle on its placement in my chart, though i have no idea if i am charismatic or not.
well, maybe in a goofy, clumsy way because my actions are so dang impulsive.
my husband sometimes calls me his adorable horse.
(doesn’t sound as endearing in english, i must say)
aries 1H chiron conjunct (same degree) moon/venus
Hm.. I don’t know. I think it depends on how I’m feeling. A lot of people call me charming, but I can just as easily not be! haha
Chiron in Cancer in the 3rd
Sextile ASC
Trine NN
Qx Moon
Trine Pluto
Opp. Uranus,Saturn,Neptune
awesome info elsa! mine sits in between my sun/moon conjunction in gemini, opposes saturn and uranus, squares jupiter in the 7th as well as the asc in virgo, plus bQ’s mars. so the wounded place that chiron represents as well has good sides too, huh, who would’ve thought 😉