“Sometimes, a person does not want to humble themselves (Saturn) so what happens is they fail (Saturn).
They fail (Saturn) at everything, over time (Saturn).”
I wrote that on the post, Refusing To Do What’s In Your Own Best Interest.
A lot of people reacted to it and I was not surprised as it’s a provocative thing to say.
Mermaid asked:
“I have a question… If you fail at a Saturn test, will you always be a failure it can you make it up later when its more convenient. All these astrology texts on the Saturn return say if you don’t mind Saturn at your Saturn return, you’re pretty much doomed and you can’t make it up until the next Saturn return 29 years later… :/”
I was not thinking along those lines when I made the remark. I was talking about failing due to fear, or failing due to laziness on some level.
If a person refuses to do anything that challenges them in a way that is unpleasant, they are not going to get very far.
If they do this over time, a pattern will be established.
Eventually that pattern will define their life.
Saturn is about growing up. You’re supposed to push your way out from the womb. So yeah. The longer you wait to do this, the harder it’s going to be and the less likely it is that’s you’ll do it.
Not that a person can’t break out, they do it all the time. But they’re in the minority.
They say that the past predicts the future. If you don’t want to be a failure, it’s best not to be a failure. But to avoid that, you’re going to have to do things you don’t like and some of them are going to be hard.
Are you willing to push your way through resistance? Yes or no?
Yes. But this blog post brings to mind my partner–he did ‘fail’ his Saturn Return (he’d certainly say so) and his 30s were basically his lost decade. This brings to mind your post about losing a decade to a Pluto transit. Those years weren’t a total waste (he learned a trade) but it took a Herculean effort once he hit 40 to turn the ship around. For him it was a vicious cycle: being unpartnered, he had little motivation to improve his lot; having a shitty lot meant he didn’t want to attempt partnering…he’s explained this all to me.
Eventually he decided he wanted better in life. I think you have to. He would tell you he spent years feeling lost and victimized. He eventually got over the resentment that he had to do it alone, and lo and behold when he did, doors started opening. He has every right to work through his hurt–we all do–but is proof that some people are called upon to live by example. There is no way around it, no matter how hard you want it to not be so. He has a 10th House Leo Sun/MC conjunction.
This is exactly my life!!! What your partner went through is exactly me. My lost “30’s” it took pluto to come in and shake the living shit out of me and now I’m on a path that I should have started a decade ago. But I am WAAAAY stronger because of the extremes I lived, it is what it is.
That’s great to hear, elizabethe:)
Very helpful post. Many thanks. Many!!
This is a relief, Elsa. I appreciate you amswerng the question as its been bothering me for a while now.
I sit and think because I have Saturn in the 3rd. And now that I really think about it, I am actually doing things..They are just subtle. Like I didn’t actually leave my relationship in the physical, but I have left those patterns in my mind. I have been focused on taking back my power in my relationship. I don’t know if I have to actually physically leave to do this. In fact, it may be best to stay in it, while I learn exactly what I don’t want my relationships to be like anymore.
Very helpful… So as long as I don’t remain in the same pattern, I’m doing alright 🙂
How long after the Saturn return is over from being exact should it take people to have gotten the lesson fully?
I really liked that comment, Elsa, when I read it because I know a ton of people who refuse to humble up and life just keeps whacking them over the head with chances to do so, and they still refuse and fail repeatedly.
And yeah, now some of them are in their 40’s, 50’s’ and 60’s and it seems like failure is their past, present and future life story. I have heard many versions of this (my grade two teacher killed my spirit, no wait it was my advisor in graduate school, or the time I applied for the big job and didn’t get it, or the gal that dumped me) and they are all EXTERNALLY focused. If you take responsibility for your failures you can move past them.
It took a lot for me to get humbled up and I still have a ways to go but yes, I can move through a lot of adversity, once I get out of self-pity mode. I was lucky to be VERY challenged during my Saturn return at age 28. I appreciate having a lot of Virgo, we can do humble like no one else (once the perfectionism is dropped!), we plan to get through unpleasant times and work like dogs to bring our plans to fruition.
Have been thinkin about this some. It is helpful to me too to stay away from the confidence eroders.
The chastizers, blamers, and even the sneerers. I met a woman today. She’s a force. Was telling me about her sister who fails at everything. She just can’t get it together. Was so down and out she was on public assistance. They even paid for re-schooling. But she degreed in ‘office management’. “How was she ever going to succeed at that. She has no self assertion. My dad and I were like what is she thinking.” I tried to tell the woman that her sister at least now had knowlege of current office systems and that is a great tool but she sneered at me for even suggesting something positive about her sister’s training. I felt so bad for her sister surrounded by a coalition on non supportive nay sayers. I don’t even know her but still I want her to get out of that ‘you are a failure’ programming.
I think my sensitivity to this kind of thing might be a product of the ongoing pluto opp natal moon. And my pluto is exact sextile to my neptune. My heart bleeds sometimes just as intensely as it floods with joy.
My 1st Saturn return wasn’t about working or getting it in gear…or even about being lazy. Mine was about making hideous relationship mistakes and walking away from people without notice. I lived with two people that were beyond ridiculous growing up. What a nightmare. I was not going to even have a small rift in my adult home. You don’t like something….then get out. I saw so much chaos that I really didn’t know the difference in a fight and a police altercation…. so as soon as anything started…I took my kids and I was out the door
**If a person refuses to do anything that challenges them in a way that is unpleasant, they are not going to get very far**
Yeah, that was me …. I was not going to do anything that challenged me in a relationship and there was no way I was staying for anything unpleasant. Well relationships are not always pleasant. They are challenging and HARD WORK….well I go on and on about this stellium in my 4th house with all of it in Scorpio….honestly back then I didn’t know what I was dealing with or what kind of lessons I was supposed to be learning. I was winging it.
TEN YEARS LATER ….. I was good to go because Pluto came along and killed my family off leaving me with no one but my kids…. and an ex trying to take them. You bet your ass you will find a way to get along with someone then.
Worst and best thing I have ever been through in my life. What my parents were unable to teach me Saturn was….and Pluto said….you stupid fool….you will get this …. divorced twice, lost two homes, lost everything I owned, lost all of my grandparents and others to death….there I was with NOTHING …. you bet I figured it out.
I stood alone with children to feed. And then I stood tall. You better pack a lunch if you are out to destroy my marriage or hurt my children today. I took a 10 year Pluto kick. I am little but I am strong and going through Saturn in Scorpio is HARSH for me right now. It’s beating me with a club. I have pressure that I can hardly bear and I am trying to guide my youngest son through his first Saturn return (I wish someone could have told me back then) but I will not make it easy for him. I want him to be a MAN at the end. A man that doesn’t need his Mother! A man his wife and children can turn to and depend on when I am dead and gone. I need him to know he doesn’t NEED anyone and that he is strong and capable. He will be a man when it is over. You can see it changing him ….its a sight to behold. Fascinating to watch. He is troubled with broken down cars and floods and …..he sent me a text to let me know he expects the locusts any day now hahahahahahha and I am his cheerleader…. but I can not do the work for him.
HA! You will learn….or you will end up alone or on the street or in jail….unless you have parents that are willing to front you until they die…then what do you do? Your parent/s are dead. Now who are you going to live with? I had no intentions of living with my mother till the end of time and I love my kids but they need to be in their own home with their own families….not living with me. They have to figure it out.
Whenever I start to give in and make it easier on my son, I remember what made me strong. I remember fighting for independence and working hard made me tough as nails. I want that for him. More than I want anything for myself. I want my son to be a strong man. And….he is under the gun right now. My bet is on him. He is a hardy Gemini with a Leo asc and a Aqua moon and his wife is a Capricorn through and through…. they can do this!!!!!!
Many thanks.
I have about 5 years to go before my first Saturn return. And, I guess I am worried about “messing it up.” I’m willing to push through resistance but I’m not sure if I have what it takes. The image in my head of what I’d like to happen seems a little unrealistic. If I could even come close to it, I think I’d be set. I guess time is really of the essence, but I just hate beating myself up even more because I already do that naturally anyway.
I have Saturn in Capricorn in the 8th house, conjunct Neptune, so I have a lot of fantasies about what great transformations could occur if I really put in the work, but also a lot of confusion about how to get there and what it all means anyway.
I found both perspectives very true, from Elsa AND Mermaid. “Lord knows” (which planet is that?) that those Saturn returns have made their point over this lifetime. Finally, at a late (kinda) stage in the game, I get it. I’m workin’ it. Breaking through the self- fullfilling prophecy AAANNNDDD listening to old grandfather Saturn. So my 50ish years of denial (Neptune), that always seemed to get me out of trouble in zero hour (Jupiter), (but not without a soul volcano, ((Pluto)), and lots and lots of tears (moon in cancer)!
How did I do on those planets, Elsa??
Lin
Pisces
Yes. I had a couple of tests during my Saturn Return, which has been over for almost a year now, and I’m quite confident I passed. I feel as if my resolve to push through has been drained recently due to this Neptune opposition. But Saturn is about to leave my 4th house and I’ve got to push through difficulty regardless.
@Scorpioandproud- You are truly motivating. Thanks. I am going through my first return.
Hello folks…
Many would consider me a failure and sometimes I wonder maybe they are true. But, if you attempt at something which I am doing time and time again and am working at it with obstacles then no I do not consider myself a failure because I am trying. I am at my saturn return and yes I have nothing to show for but that was because I failed at LISTENING TO MY OWN HEART and doing WHAT I WANTED TO DO! So I finally decided to pursue music and not listen to what others say I should do. Its very hard in the music biz to look a certain, impress others and fit in. I am a drummer and multi instrumentalist been doing it since I was 17, now Im 29. Its taken me many roads and twists and turns to figure out what my heart wants. And I figured it out but it was at the back of my mind. I know there are others like me. I have met others like me some of them have already made it or are making it now. I feel like they are my soul mates, I have musical genes, music is in my blood and bones so to speak and there’s no turning back. My genre is not pop so its ok in my age range to still do this! And there are always possibilities to pursue in the industry. My failures are not listening to myself or my own heart when I should have shut out other people and their influence. My failure was not humbling myself when I approached the counselor at CSUN’s music dept, so I graduated w/ another degree instead. I have had tremendous obstacles, mainly lack of support , mental illness which haunts me and drives me to do things on impulse if I don’t keep it in check, and lack of opportunity even when I knocked on doors.. But that’s their bad. They also say once Saturn comes you must know what you want , and I do know exactly what I want. Its very clear and simple to me. I left school to pursue it… Little things are being figured out the bigger picture is clear.. Thanks Elsa for bringing this up, i guess the universe wanted me to read this to remind myself 🙂 One more thing, the lack of a music is ok, bc on one hand I won’t be a guitarist but a drummer… I was to pursue guitar and I didn’t want to.. Things happen for a reason. But it would have made me a guitarist and nothing more which would have been fine too…
😀
Wow, thank you for sharing this. This is basically the same issue I’m thinking about for my Saturn return…whether I should pursue music or whether I’m just not suited for it. I have 5 years to go before mine, but it’s really awesome to read that someone is pursuing that dream when their return is happening, without already having made a career out of it…makes me feel like it’s not too late for me to start.
This sounds like my brother, a 145 IQ tenth grade dropout. About 20 years ago he quit a $16/hour job with unlimited overtime, failed at a few get-rich-quick schemes, and hasn’t worked since. He’s been living with/off Mommie. The guy is 6’5″ and looks like David Borneaz (Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer). He’d be a chick magnet if he could get his head screwed on straight. He even let his drivers license expire so he’d have more excuses to not work.
And I just got my paralegal certificate and still can’t get a job, even with six years of experience in my field. I though once you did the work (Saturn) you were supposed to reap the reward (Jupiter)? Very frustrating.
I’m going through Saturn Return and everything falls apart, obstacles appeared constantly, I changed job several times, trying to get in the field I want, got the offer then the company withdrew it, got unemployed and now I’m working in the job I dislike and got paid much lower than the one I had before Saturn return. It’s like my efforts in previous years have no value, my life is going down. But it’s true, every problem will be brought to the surface by Saturn, my mistakes somehow caused my career to be like this. I met the man I felt strongly for, it seemed to go well between us, but external circumstances happened that drived him away. I see my friends of same age get promotion, get married, buy house…but for me, things fall a part, I don’t even have money to start my own enterprise plan. I’m sorry for complaining. For me Saturn means being realistic and getting rid of bad habits and relationships. Saturn is in my 7th house, Sun, Jupiter and stellium are in 10th house so career has always been the focus in my life and relationships were rocky and burdensome.