Violently Attacked? Defend Yourself Effectively At Your Own Risk: Scorpio, the 8th House and the Shadow Side of the Collective

satori and I, still talkin”, circa 2007…

“I’ve taken out more than my share of perps,” I said. “But in a lot of the scenarios I can think of, I’m pretty sure I’d be struck, frozen in fear with the rest of the masses. I don’t have any judgment about that, it just is. Some people are cut out for acting in ways that are valiant, I guess you could say. And others not. I’m not.”

“I am,” she said.

“Yeah. I admire people like you who take action. And I pay a lot of attention to this and I think people like you pay a high price for their prowess.”

“What do you mean?”

“Well if you manage to defend yourself against a violent person… if you have an effective defense, you wind up getting dirtied by it.”


‘Well, take the woman who has the rapist come through her window. She pops his nut and he dies. Bam. He dies right there on top her. And the guy has probably raped other women. Odds are he has. Three other women? Four? Twelve? He’s probably been at this awhile. Probably started with his date rape and progressed and he’s just gotten away with it for as long as he has but not this time! This time he’s deader than dead and this woman did it. Wrong bed, babe.”

“Uh huh,” she said. “That’s right.”

“Well she’s not a hero, though. See, he’s dead and we don’t have the death penalty for rape! So now people wonder if this wasn’t just a little bit extreme. They start to sympathize with the perpetrator and you can see how she starts to get dirty.”

“Yeah, that’s true.”

“Yeah, but it gets worse. Just give it a couple weeks or a month or the rest of her life and it really goes dark on her. Let’s say there are two women and they live across the street from each other. They’re both the same age or whatever. They’re peers except one of them killed a rapist in her bed,” I said. “The other has nothing like that in her history. She’s just plain. So here comes a man and which woman do you think he is likely to want to date? The woman who has nothing like this in her past, or the woman who does?”

“I see.”

“Yes, she’s dirtied there. It’s like she’s standing in a pool of blood now and she has to wonder if she’d have been better off just accepting the rape like everyone else. Like normal women do. You can fight, but just don’t fight too well. Fight too well and you’ll become a scary person to be avoided just in case… because you’re a killer after all.”

“I can see how that would happen,” she said.

“Yeah, it does happen. And this is what happens to Scorpio in general, by the way. And the 8th house. I’ve been watching this my whole life and I don’t see there is any way to stop it from happening. It’s like a a phenomenon that is always going to happen, there is no way to affect the course of it. Anyone who is effective is going to suffer a backlash, period. So go ahead and defend yourself effectively but once you do, you’d better duck.  One way or the other, you’ll wind up the pariah.”

Have you witnessed this phenomenon?

19 thoughts on “Violently Attacked? Defend Yourself Effectively At Your Own Risk: Scorpio, the 8th House and the Shadow Side of the Collective”

  1. That is so true. But it doesn’t matter what you do, you’ll be screwed, because if you don’t defend yourself because that is what you think society wants, you’ll know, deep down, that you should have because you have that power. And then those thoughts will pick at you. And if you do it and then try to hide it, hide behind a normal facade, in plain sight, I think that power starts to eat away from the inside. Better to be true to yourself and pray that you will find someone to shore you up that is grateful that you have that kind of power and respects you for who you are. You and Satori are lucky to have each other.

  2. It works like that even on the less violent levels. I have had to deal with a LOT of sexual assaults, I don’t know why, but I attract a lot of perverts. Mid-day too! In the supermarket or the street – it is ridiculous. The men I am with find this a burden. My current boyfriend says I have ‘tragic sex appeal’. Strange isn’t it that just being assaulted dirties you. I must tell you though that I TALKED a guy out of raping me once (if I have any weapons at all they are words). I made it too repulsive for him. He left.

  3. It is so true, in my experience. Some guy had his dick out in a full subway car sitting right next to me, but out of sight of the other passengers (sneaky prick) and when I told the conductor he told me I was imagining things. I should have just kicked him in the balls but I was scared stupid. I cried all the way home instead and was just a little traumatized. I wish I had acted. If it were someone else I saw this happen to, I wouldn’t have even thought about it, but when it happens to me my mind works differently. It sucks.

    But the backlash is there. For sure and unfortunately. But still better to act than to not. Fucking perverts.

  4. I think there’s effective scorpio and ineffective scorpio in these situations. Effective scorpio takes action but seldom out in the open where there is the risk of vilification.
    A true scorpio doesn’t want to be exposed to the world when they do something that’s necessary but unpleasant especially if that exposure will make their life harder than it needs to be – that kind of self sacrificing seems more piscean than anything else.
    Scorpios deals with the 8th house shadow often from within those same shadowy realms.
    And thus a Scorpio is seldom the have-a-go hero, he’s far more likely to be the hidden vigilante.

  5. Makes me think of the law of conservation – i.e., where there is an action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

  6. I have what I call the ‘slap reflex.’ Can’t control it. Can’t explain it. You eff with me, I slap you. It’s had me beat; it’s had me saved. No rhyme or reason. 8th house is empty, but 7th house has Saturn (leo) and my natal Saturn is about to enter the 8th house (Virgo) and I am scared.
    No rhyme or reason…

  7. I like the idea of nonviolence as a life philosophy…that is until someone attacks first. At that point they have established themself as violent and defending yourself against violence is an inalienable right. If someone hits first (on purpose) aren’t they looking for trouble? Of course they get what’s coming to them when their supposed victim pops their nut. Good for her for standing up for herself 🙂

  8. In the same ballpark, I used to see a guy around the area, he taught at the local college and was very goodlooking. When I finally found someone who knew him personally and asked about him almost the first thing she said was ‘oh, his last girlfriend committed suicide you know’. Everyone I spoke to seemed to think I should stay away from him because of it. But there has been suicide in my life and it doesn’t faze me at all – and still I was getting warned off him. I thought it was horrific really, no one knew the circumstances or the details but he was being branded with something nebulous anyway.

  9. I confused here… “if she’d have been better off just accepting the rape like everyone else. Like normal women do” ?????

  10. “Yeah, it does happen. And this is what happens to Scorpio in general, by the way. And the 8th house.” My word. Waste of energy and nobody recognizes the valiant become a target.
    Any other way to avoid it?
    Your a good story teller Elsa!

  11. Yes…….I have pluto in scorpio in the 8th house conjunct lilith. I am this person…personified.

  12. saggal – I think the most effective thing is to make a scene of it. This guy was repeatedly putting his hand on my thigh on a morning train (pretending he’d fallen asleep). Finally I just said STOP touching me!!! REALLY loud. Worked!

  13. Oh. My. God. This hits TOO close to home for me. I have Pluto in Scorpio in my 8th house(with a crap ton in Aries and first house) and I constantly feel as though I’m fighting to no avail. I have to fight for everything. It’s not that I want to, I have to. I often find myself on the other end of other people’s opposition, and whenever I try to hold my ground or fight, I always come out the loser. This has manifested itself in my work life the most. I have the hardest time with managers and for some reason, they are really on the defense with me. Anytime I have a question or I call attention to something unfair, I’m treated like an outcast. As strong as I am, I’m not sure how much more I can bear.

  14. ““The other has nothing like that in her history. She’s just plain. So here comes a man and which woman do you think he is likely to want to date? The woman who has nothing like this in her past, or the woman who does?””

    I see your point, but in my opinion the man worth dating is the one who doesn’t fear the second woman.

    I defended myself from a violent rape in my early 20s. I don’t wish to go into the details of it, but I did wrestle the guy for his knife and get it. No, I didn’t kill him, but there was blood.

    If you can’t handle that, then there are other things in my past you also can’t handle, and we’re better off as friendly acquaintances :).

  15. Good for you, Plutonian Gem! That was really brave.

    I also fought someone off by grabbing his coat and pulling it up so his arms were bound. Then I shoved him, hard. It wasn’t bravery, I was just…god, I was so scared.

    Unfortunately it didn’t work long enough for me to get to the door, but when they found him he had a shiner and scratches I had no idea I’d given him. He couldn’t have lied his way out of that one, Go me! He dropped his wallet at the scene so there was no getting out of it anyway.

  16. cassi – i hear you. i was also recently threatened by a man (non-sexual thing) but really scary. dealing with the police has been stressful and frustrating. a few times i have wondered if i should just give up. but i know that i have to see it through. it’s just the way i am. but it hurts and it drags me down. like elsa said, i feel dirtied. i feel like my right to create my world – even in private moments – has been hijacked by this person.

  17. “Good for you, Plutonian Gem! That was really brave.”

    Thank you so much! I really don’t know if I would call it bravery, I was operating completely on instinct. If you had presented the same situation to me as a hypothetical the day before, and asked what I would do, I would never have said THAT!

    I did all kinds of things people are advised not to do, including talking smack to the guy. For the record, the usual advice given to women actually is non-resistance- it makes sense given that most men are physically stronger than most women. I know that now but at the time I didn’t, and thank God for it, because I didn’t need to feel I’d “handled it wrong” on top of everything else.

    Since people are talking about their experiences with the police, I also wanted to say that mine was very positive during the entire process. I would in specific like to thank a female police officer who took the time to tell me about her own rape experience (she shot the guy) and assure me that I had done nothing wrong defending myself. I thanked her then too, but she probably can’t be thanked enough for her compassion and generosity.

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