Martha Raye's 100th birthday today - if this birth data is to be believed she had it in Gemini/Cancer
My daughter has Pluto in Scorpio conjunct her ascendant. It's hard to mistake.
@elsa same, I'd say my eyes and as you say undertow make it pretty obvious... mine is tightly conjunct in Scorp but from the 12th, like a cloak over my Pluto... opposing my Sun, ya it's no joke
@belladonna My daughter has the eyes and she is bald at the moment.
It makes her look like her father who was also bald with Pluto conjunct his ascendant.
::laughs::
I have a cousin with Leo ASC, with Pluto and Jupiter both exactly conjunct the ASC at 26 degrees, almost exactly square Saturn in Scorpio conjunct the Nadir. Sun is exactly sextile the Jupiter Pluto conjunction and almost exactly inconjunct Saturn.
She was the sweetest little girl (5 years younger than me and her older sister), but as an adult she is bossy, judgmental, arrogant and controlling. Needless to say, we no longer have any kind of relationship. Has always had trouble with her weight (Jupiter). Has a very sweet and mild-mannered husband. They are very affectionate with each other. She is the boss in the marriage. IMO she got lucky.
My son has it in cap. He really almost died in utero and had to be delivered two months early, if that isn’t textbook. His eyes definitely burn when angry. But I don’t know how obvious it is most times. Maybe because he’s a libra he seems so mild mannered about 90% of the time. And he’s only a toddler so we’ll see.
Actually maybe it’s all relative, because my daughter has a Scorpio ascendant and she really has the eyes, the stare.
My DIL. Oh God. And her Pluto is at 12 Scorpio. You know that thing is all over my stellium. It's also opposite my moon.
She was a sweet kid. I don't want to say anything bad. But...
She decided in 2018 she was the boss of me. We know where that went. South of course. And she is a Cap sun. So, she is a Cap sun, Scorpio rising conjunct Pluto.
At the moment, I cannot stand the thought of her. And I just won't speak to her. I tore her ass out of the socket in early June in the middle of a manipulation power play aimed at me. She lied. I am the one person she cannot squash. She wants to. Ain't never gonna happen.
Her Pluto is also square her natal mercury, so she comes at everything like she is living out a trauma or drama. And with this comes the ... don't challenge me BS... she is exhausting. I am the only person on planet earth that rises up and meets her eye to eye. Only about the kids. I am clear. Take care of your f'ing kids or I will take care of you.
Drama queen.
She is the reason we live 800 miles away from family today. To be clear, she did not run us off. It was def for her benefit. Cos... omg... I am trying to get into heaven if there is one and I don't want her to be the reason I don't make it to the finish line.
Love her. Hate her guts.
Two faced, lies, bossy, has NO friends because she is a B!tch, judgmental, controlling, arrogant.... and all this with no reason to back it.. she has accomplished very little. Literally NO ONE likes her.
She put me off Capricorn altogether.
I never like to use the C word. Here, in this situation... I do. She is one. I know this is brutal. But I am over it and I am answering this honestly ... I am telling you she does not have one friend.
After saying all this if someone hurt her, I would be on my way to find them. I do love her. But I would like to pull her hair out a lot of the time.
@soup I don't know your story, but after reading this, I wouldn't like to get in your way 😀 😀 How does she deal with the fact that she can't squash you? Does she respect it or is it a challenge for her?
When I was reading your post, suddenly I remembered my nephew. Gosh, I love that boy since the first moment I knew he would be born. He has Sun in Scorpio, Cap rising conjunct Pluto, Moon conjunct Pluto too, and Venus square Pluto. He IS something, but that gaze, those eyes, it's like he can see your every thought, very intense and powerful energy and I predict he will make his parent's lives a living hell. He doesn't stand any authority unless you earn his respect, then he will do anything for you, he has anger, pure rage when he's fed up with something and he never backs off, never. Very proud and brave and always stands up for his beliefs.
@dori She landed on my front porch. She had just turned 19. Crying. Broke my heart to see her so pitiful. Took her in. Let her work with me every day. E suggested I help her grow strong. I did. Problem is now she is a C. She isn't using her strength properly. And she points that crap at me. Me. Who bought all her clothes, Gave her a job. Lifted her up. Raised her kids. I know part of it is we have the moon Pluto contact. It is never fun when you are the moon person. The Pluto person is usually a manipulator in the scenario.
She will say really crap things to me. Most of the time I act like I didn't hear it, so she doesn't get the rise. But when it gets bad (and she does it for attention, so I have no idea why I take the bait) I say things back like... I don't work for you. She does her work under the radar so no one can see it. I say whatever I have to say in front of anyone standing in earshot. Now I look like the a$$hole. And try to imagine a Capricorn crying. Come on. The one that is crying always looks like the victim. She is no victim.
Still after saying all this (which I have no problem telling anyone) I do love her. Dearly. I just don't let her talk to me like trash like she does to her mother, father, both daughters and my son (who doesn't take it either)
What she says to him is none of my business. He has a stellium in Gemini and Mars in Scorpio. He can hold his own. Her Pisces mom and Libra dad take it. And they cry. OMG... crying parents. I would knock her on her a$$. I don't take it from my own kids. She knows she can't, so she talks trash. It's so disrespectful.
If I could go back in time, I never would have opened the front door and let her in in the first place. And she has made me question ever liking anyone with a Cap sun fully. I have enough Saturn with my husband's Cap moon and his Saturn all over my entire life. I am not about to take it from her.
How do I handle it? She is dead to me. I go to the whatever and act like I don't see her ... I don't speak to her. I speak to everyone but her.
People will read this and think I am mean. They would be wrong. If anyone could see the sacrifices I made to help her, the amount of money spent, time I will never get back... (decade and a half) they would see. All I can say is I did it for my grands. They are better for it. Stronger for it. I do love her and if anyone intentionally hurt her, I would charge in. But she better think again ...cos she is not going to talk to me like trash like she does to her parents. She has turned into a total C!
When Capricorn starts talking it's like hammers to my ears. Blunt. Forceful. Harsh. Especially Mercury in Cap. I want to obliterate them. Right now, anyway. I cannot stand it. I know why. Transit I am going thru. And I have had enough of it. She has Mercury in Aqua just like my husband. The delivery... 🤢 the Capricorn and the Aqua... mean and aloof. Yeah, like that. Well let me show you cold. You ain't see anything like this ice storm. Which won't be a storm. Just dead to me.
I could see if I ever called her. Ever showed up to her home unannounced. Was minding her business. I have talked to her maybe ... 4 times in two years at any length. It's the crap she pulls with the kids. I have never met a mother that doesn't like to hug their kids. Who are these people? Withholding love? Maybe it's me. Probably is. Nothing makes me sicker than a cold ass mother who doesn't nurture their kids.
She has gotten away with a lot of her behavior because she is an only child, and her parents feel guilty for getting a divorce.
I'm not talking behind her back. I would and will and have said what I have to say to her face. She on the other hand hasn't the courage to do the same.
I am just so sick of Capricorn right now. Sorry to other Caps reading this. I am sure you have been sick of and vomiting over Scorpio many times or now or all the time. I get it. I am just expressing how I feel right now. I need them to stay away from me. Dealing with the one with the moon in my house all day every day .... secluded and isolated is about all I can take.
I have Cap on the dsc. (And a Taurus moon) I am supposed to like these people. I used to. Just not right now. I don't want to hear the harsh toxic shit they have spewing from their mouths. Know it all's... harsh...
Virgo... love them. Even though they hand out a thousand ppr cuts, that just makes me giggle... but these Caps around me... ew... overwhelming desire to crush that energy right now. So, I avoid it. No need to launch my weapons of mass destruction. I was hoping I have evolved past this desire by now. So... I avoid.
You asked does she respect it? No. Is it a challenge for her? Well, probably. She has a Pisces Venus. She isn't fooling me. I know she feels it. I guess the deal is this... if you pour 15 years into helping a person and they treat you like trash... at some point you just disappear. I don't deny that I am feeling these transits and I may feel differently when they pass. Still, I cannot imagine wanting to ever be around her for any length of time again after watching her operate since 2018.
It takes all I have to not step in when she is talking to her Pisces mother like she is a piece of crap. Her mother crying. OMG... I want to snatch her up by the hair.....
@soup Oh again you made me think of my father and sister in law. I think my mother in law had a a Pisces rising and suffered cruelty from them. This woman was a martyr. She got a bad blood transfusion in 1996 and it gave her autoimmune diseases. I witnessed how badly she was treated by her Libra husband with pluto, moon conjunction in Leo and either Leo or Scorpio rising. The woman was bed ridden and thankfully one of her sisters lived next door and refused to bow to the in law. Her daughter told her that her life-the mother's-was over while hers-daughter's had just begun. On the night the mother was dying, I was in the room with some of her siblings and their spouses when her husband walked in and told her he wish she would just go already! He walked out and she died.
On the day of her funeral he had a woman in there with him chasing her naked in front of an uncovered sliding glass door where the sister could see. Also the grave was in the back yard.
Thing is, both her husband and daughter died in a bed. The daughter suffered quite a bit and to me, it was karma. She'd also treated her bf like crap. Aries sun, Libra Pluto.
The Aunt and I still have bad trouble letting go of the things they said and did.
Let me put it this way, my hell would be spending eternity with them.
Some people you just can't deal with and need therapy to forget.
They've tried to haunt me too. I heard Amanda's voice from where her grave was. She called the name of her bf, who ended up dying next. We moved away and my husband sold his part of that property to the man who got the old family home place. Since that happened, the hauntings stopped for my husband and me.
@tonya I often wonder why people are mean to Pisces. They are the sweetest people usually and I have found them to try to love their family and friends almost to their own detriment. When I see her mother being treated like that, I can only see cruelty. This is not how you rise and use power or strength. It's very disappointing to watch. I suppose she will learn. I am no angel. I am well aware of how I fight. But I don't start them.
Cruelty is the right word. And she's getting off on it. She's not going to do it to me. I will take her to a place she won't want to visit. So, I just had to dead it. I am not going to be disrespectful to her in front of the girls and what goes on between her and my son is none of my beeswax. He is grown. I have never known him to take a lot of shiz. She's just not going to do it to me.
God, I cannot stand lying cruel people. I wonder what in the heck Pluto in Cap has done to her. I also cannot believe I could be so stupid to put in that much effort. Was I ever bamboozled!
Ugh. Talking to her mother like that. Mother has health problems. Is alone. She treats her like garbage. She goes for long lengths of time refusing to speak to them, so they cry because they miss the kids. She is the queen of holding children hostage if she is not getting her way. One funny thing. Her father is remarried, and her stepmother gives her a run for it! LOL... Stepmother is a fire sign. You should see that haha
My ex has a live in gf for the last 5 years. She doesn't take it from her either. Calls her out at the dinner table LOL ... as for me... I just dead things like this. Unless directly confronted... then I dead it right then.... loudly.
I never want anyone to hurt her. But I really never want to be around her again. And I am not sure how I could change my mind.
A very close friend of mine (Pisces) took so much shiz from her family and husband. He cheated on her so many times (Of course a damn Sagiterriorist) and she kept forgiving him. He finally left her for a widow that was left a huge inheritance from her deceased husband. She was left alone on SS. She died about 18 months later. No doubt from a broken heart. He tried to talk to me in a restaurant about 6 months after that. I glared at him like demons were shooting out of my eyes. He started to talk, and I threw up my hand and said.... I wouldn't. If I hadn't had the grands with me everything in my soul was saying take a swing at him... I am not saying Pisces are doormats because I live with one and he is NOT. But I am saying that people do try them. And I can't stand to watch it.
(I know I went off topic a bit, but this is my experience with Pluto in that placement right now and it's not pretty)
@soup I hate seeing people bullied, especially when they are sick and can't defend themselves. Pluto's dark side will steamroll another person easily.
Good for you that you won't let her run over you and good for the other person who dishes right back at her.
👍🏻
@soup I do really love how open, honest, blunt, and passionate you are. The way you write about her, every emotion is so piercing and it goes straight through my bones and I love it. 
I understand exactly how you feel, this story reminds me of my sister-in-law. My brother has Venus conjunction Neptune natally, of course, he doesn't see anything because he was never aware of how foggy is his point of view, and not just because of her, it's everything in his life. Anyway, she can be so so mean, when you talk with her, the only two goals of that conversation are 1. to be on her side - she will love you for that and consider you her BFF, or if you give another point of view or 2. if you disagree with her, there it goes... attacks, humiliation, endless persuading because she has to be right, always and forever. It's exhausting, so after one more humiliating situation, she put me in a month ago, I decided I'm done. I can't do it anymore, so I cut them off. I'm in contact with my brother, but for no particular reason, just because he's my brother, but not with her. I don't want to hear her, see her, anything unless I really have to. By deciding this I had to pay a high price, I can't see my nephews as much as I would like. But I can't feel like shit anymore, I really can't, because I always made sure she is welcomed in our family. My mum was against that relationship, and it took me a long time to convince her that she should give my SIL a chance because everyone deserves it. My brother and his wife don't even know what I did so my mum would accept their relationship, and I don't expect anything, but I do expect not to be treated like a piece of shit. So, I completely understand you, and sometimes talking or trying to solve things by conversatin isn't enough, but when you disappear, as you did, as I did, maybe then people finally understand they can't play endless games anymore. My brother is a strong Cap with Leo rising, I feel you. And my bf has mercury in Aqua, I know exactly what you mean, it's brutally hard sometimes.
Btw. you said you feel these transits, I feel very irritated over the last 5 days but I can't discover why, anything I'm missing? Is it still Saturn-Uranus?
@dori It's very hard for me to un-love someone. Because of this I get taken down emotionally. The fact is I do love her. I was with her during her pregnancies, birth, supported her every time she cried a tear. There were times I would yell at my own son and tell him to man up and be more kind. I did what was asked of me. I helped when I was asked. And when I think of that time it's really bittersweet. On the one hand I got to see new life come into the world. I got to support a young family so they would/could make it. But it ended up being a slap in my face. To say I am deeply wounded from this is experience is an understatement. From around 2012 moving forward it progressively got worse. By 2018 it was blatant.
Since I have moved, and I am no longer helping financially or able to bbysit I am of no use. So, in reality the truth is I was used. And when no longer able to give my life to this situation, discarded. It has taken over 2 years to cry this out and be okay with the fact that I was nothing more than a means to their end.
Scorpio's get hurt and amputate. But it isn't because they want to. When the pain of something is too great, they know that it is survival at some point and person can only get so low ... go down so much, show signs of failing health... they amputate to survive. But people don't understand this. They see it as abandonment when it is nothing of the sort.
In another world I would have more air or earth or whatever energy it takes to let these kinds of things roll off my shoulder and not feel them. Unfortunately, I am unable to do it even though I have tried desperately to learn detachment.
The move was hard. The isolation was harder. The depression was disgusting, and I was in bed over it. Thing is, I would like to stay alive. So, survival. I talk like a bad ass. I wish I were more bad ass. I just draw the line at blatant disrespect.
I was thinking about a handbag I gave her with the matching wallet. Now this will sound ridiculous to a lot of people. These items don't carry any meaning to me personally for any statis at all... I have them. I carry a 50-dollar purse. But I have nice handbags given as gifts over the years. They are in the original boxes. She helped my husband with our attic one day when we were moving. She knows what is in my closet. Because she helped, I gave her a brand-new Louis Vuitton handbag and the matching wallet. She carried it for a bit, then questioned it. Then took it to the original store to see if it was actually real. Who does this? She was given the bag and the wallet in the original box. There is no mistaking these handbags. They told her it was authentic. I would not have known this and wish I did not know this... but my son (big mouth Gemini) decided he would repeat this story to me.
Imagine how this made me feel. I gave her something of great monetary value in return for help she gave. I over gave, again. She questioned the value and doubted that I gave her anything of value. I knew then I would never do it again. And wish I had given her a couple hundred dollars for the help and left it at that. My husband bought me that handbag years back. I never used it. The receipt was still in the box. Most people know how much they cost. I don't carry them because I put everything in my purse. I used to carry GD's baby bottles in my darn purse... you can find anything from band-aids to sunscreen in my purse. My purse is like a girl scout first aid kit. So, I would ruin this handbag if I used it daily. I loved that he did it. And I have many more. But I do not use them. I don't need to be seen as a person that carries things like this. But love him for the gesture.
See, she got around 3K for helping. And she turned it into a thing where she doubted it all. Then, she found out she was wrong. She found out I honestly gave her something of value. She also found out (shit disturber son, the Gemini like to stir the pot then walk away hands clean) my son told me. Now she is talking backward. And, started lying. I did a nice thing. She turned it into a dramatic 3 ring circus. The only solace I have is that I know she won't be getting another one anytime soon and she has ruined that one in a short period of time. See we don't have to deliver karma. People deliver it to their self. The doubt... okay fine. The openly going around telling people about it... like I gave her some knock off fake thing... unforgivable. You do something you think is really going to make another person happy.
It was something I knew she wanted badly. It made me feel good to be able to do it. She trashed the sentiment. At that point it was obvious that no matter what I gave her, a million dollars will not give you back what you want. Family. Love. Closeness. It gets you used. And many times, laughed at. I am a fool. And stupid. Not smart at all. And I have to now decide why I have done it. It starts with me and it's an inside job as Libra Noir always says. What is it within me that makes me desperately want love from people that are unable to give it?
I can tell you that Pluto is coming up to square my sun. I have a zero-degree Venus, and 4-degree sun and Neptune. Like your brother I don't see things clearly either. I am in this love fog. I want the 4th house happy ending. Family needs to mean something. Giving feels good. I want the people I love to feel love and to be safe and my Cancer rising causes me to mother and nurture the living shit out of everything. I am a Taurus moon Cancer rising cooking and feeding and babysitting mother before I am anything. All that is gone. No identity left so I can get real with TAKING CARE OF MY DAMN SELF for a change. I need to point some of that nurture in my direction or I am going to be dead.
Pluto strips you down to the core whether you like it or not and you have to go through it. You have no choice. Doesn't matter how painful it is, doesn't matter if you lose everything you have. Uranus will lightning strike, Pluto will dig the guts out of you and Neptune...? Jesus, I am just learning about how stupid that is. And how affected I am by it and how stupidly I deal with it. Lots of lessons. Very painful ones. What is on the other side? See, this is what I know. STRENGTH is on the other side. A smarter wiser person who is able to stand on their own is on the other side. I have been through this gig before. And as painful as it is I don't mind it as much knowing that I am going to be bad ass when I get over there. Till then, there will be some heartbreak, crying, realization and a slap in my face. Over and over till I get it. I have to get it without hurting other people. I have to get it with patience. I have to keep doing it till I get it. This is being done for me not to me. So, I could lash out at her for being a giant C word. But the thing is... transits will teach her what she needs to learn, or she will fail. In the meantime, I need to mind my own business. Yes, she is horrible. Maybe she needs to be horrible to learn some things and I have to believe it has nothing to do with me. Honestly, I keep thinking that someday she is going to look back and say... damn, I had a really good friend. What was I thinking? And moving forward she may treat people the way she wants to be treated. Or she will just remain a giant C! haha
The biggest lesson for me? Let people fall on their faces. Don't spend your time trying to keep your kids away from failure. They don't learn that way and you eat mud. No matter how many times a young family is at your door asking for your assistance, let them understand the harsh realities of the world, learn young and don't cushion every blow for them. Let them be a little hungry (figure of speech) When you suffer you earn your spine! I did all this to myself. I was trying to keep my kids and grands from dealing with the nightmares of my childhood. Make sure they never felt that stuff. Never had to go through it. Honestly as harsh as my childhood was, it made me me. I should have let them feel the sting more often. I made the mistake. I deserve the tears. This, what I am dealing with is of my making.
Still, I want her Pluto OFF MY EFFING MOON 🤣 and her first house Pluto conjunct mouth out of my ears and her Capricorn death speeches out of my ears. 🤣 I understand my role in it. But I don't have to sit around and listen to her arrogant, harsh big know it all mouth. Funny, the people that claim to know it all are usually the most delusional. God... gross. I have decided to flee the Capricorn building but I am not afraid to turn around sting the living shit out of it - to be sure. Even to my own detriment. I will do it if pushed. Scorpio ain't afraid of no Cappy on God's green earth. I'm just trying to avoid destroying a family relationship for good. And when pushed I damn well will. Burning a bridge you can never cross again is not wise. So, I am minding my own business and trying to get well.
I am sorry about your SIL Dory. The whole thing sucks because you want to love on and give to the kids, but people make it impossible unless you are catering to their adult needs. I always call that holding the kid's hostage. Kids don't know any better and just think you left them behind. And since they are not our kids, we can do nothing about it. Sad all the way around. We have to have our own peace. I don't want to be around cruel people. And I don't intend to. So, you are right. There is a price to pay for peace. Sorry you are going through it too. Family is crazy town!
I could have just said Pluto conjunct the ascendant is a C-WORD but how shallow a statement about a very complicated person. It's not that they are all horrible people. This is my experience with 'the one'. And she is all over my moon so there is more to it than her Pluto conj. her asc and all over my stellium. There is good in her somewhere. I have witnessed it. Just not right now. She is not good right now. Transits pass and people change... I don't want anyone to ever hurt her. I think for me, it's the knowing who she really is, and the crying facade she puts on display for the people who don't know. Everyone knows Pluto is not a cry baby. And Capricorn is not a cry baby. It's an act. I am just the first one to abort the mission.
To be clear... I also know I am no angel. I also know I get offended sometimes when no offence was committed. I also understand Scorpio paranoia. So, I suck too. So effing glad we moved. What a godsend.
When pluto went into Capricorn in 2008, it was supposedly in my 11th house, but it felt more like it was straight in my 12th. I started having dreams of death, incarceration, & incompetence and have been having them since. My past started coming back to me and all of the things that come from this transit. This has led me to study whole house Astrology and find that it works too.