Wow, everybody here has such powerful stories I feel kind of strange even contributing, since I was blessed to be raised by emotionally functional people.

However, I have some experience on narcissists in the family. I might well be "third generation". My maternal grandfather clearly was deeply screwed up, and quite possibly narcissist. Although I loved my grandmother, I could see, even as a small child, how deeply dysfunctional my grandparent's relationship and the whole family unit - they had four children, and my grandfather's sister was living with them after retiring - was because of him.

I never had a chance to ask my Mom how she thought it affected her. My Dad and his remarkably functional - given they had lived through or were born immediately after WWII in a traumatized society - family members tell me how unassuming she was. Pretty quiet, but focused and present with people. I guess she was saved by the love and affection of both my grandmother - who was a Virgo stellium and the martyr in her relationship - and her aunt (an amazing Taurean lady who lived to 94 and had the best stories...) - who actually fought my granddad. But she still obviously was the "Good Girl" too, being an star athlete for a father who had deep respect for athletes. She also seem to have been very dear to her younger siblings, her Sadge sister only 10 months younger than she and 7 years younger Aqua/Cappy brother. They are functional, but I can see the scars (Sadge Sis is the quietest Sadge I've ever met, Aqua Brother just checked out from the family at one point, although he is now very much there for my Granny). The oldest sister, a Gemini, is a text book narcissist, and had tried to intervene with my life too.

The interesting thing is that my Husband's is third generation too. His maternal grandparent's story is scaringly similar to that of my grandparent's, with grandmother going into a deep depression after living decades with an emotionally abusive partner. The difference is they only had one child - my MIL. She is an Aries, Pisces Rising with Cappy Moon - caring to the bone. Amazing mother, looking at my Hubby. But yes, with anxiety issues her Cappy Moon reflects perfectly are there.

eva I think it's so much harder when you love them.

My Sis loved Ma very much until she was kinda forced to choose between her and her husband... then the scales to some extent fell from her eyes, esp when Ma started playing her mind games with the grandchildren. But the underlying love was always there, and kicked back in when she was very old. At that point, neither of us had been seeing or speaking to her for some years (before that we took it in turns lol)

My Dad was no fool and foresaw that - he told me a few nights before he died that what worried him most was that we would both walk away from Ma - and added "I wouldn't blame you of course". I promised him not to, to make his mind at ease, and having given the promise I did my best to keep it. But finally it was too destructive, and when I was no longer married and had to brave it on my own, I finally broke under the strain. I still feel guilt for the broken promise

It was always easier for me to get away than my sister, though, since I never really loved Ma - or at least, my love was shot through with hatred and rage. I wanted her to love me of course, and wanted to love her in return - everyone wants to be 'normal' lol - but none of that really lasted beyond childhood.

I was immensely relieved when she died - it was like a huge stone coming off me, and I could walk into the light at last. But I was 57 already... And then all Sis's neuroses went into overdrive, and stuff came welling up I'd never heard or seen before, then she amputated me! All truly weird, and very sad. It was as if I no longer served a purpose, now we didn't have *that* to share

"The more energy you spend on this the more you'll regret it later, because the rage, which is part of what differentiates you -- individuates you -- is a poor replacement for becoming a whole person."

Actually, I won't. I don't live like that, Eva. I have yet to regret trying to heal myself from the pain of my childhood. I am a believer of 'the only way out is through' and that for me, is speaking the truth about how I was treated. Which I am sure you can relate to.

Yeah, BP. These are sad, sad stories. Most people who are avidly into examining their experiences with Ns are so damn mad, it's just a compulsion to keep expressing this internalized sense of being devalued, cheated, controlled...but when the rage diminishes -- you see it. It's a tragedy.

I wish I felt relieved when my mother died. I thought I would feel that way. I was something else -- shattered. No, that's not the word. Dissolved. I've been waiting to feel better but some days I'm just in mourning for a childhood I didn't really even have.

I see it is a tragedy. I'm sorry Eva. I am trying to figure this out before I have a child of my own.

Kashmiri, I didn't mean one should not examine it at all. When I first heard this word Narcissist and read the Sam Vaknin stuff it all resonated so deeply that I became engrossed in it. You read the books, you know, you analyze the experiences...but a couple things start coming out if you read enough of this stuff.

First of all, there are a LOT of people who are pissed off at these people called Narcissists. And also, the ones who are pissed off are REALLY pissed off. I've read several blogs by women who have a daily commitment to the rage they feel at their mothers --reams and reams of complaints about how insanely they act, how selfish they are, how destructive they are and so on. So this, in some instances, can take up a lot of time. You can start to build this airtight case, constructed in brilliant detail. You can write books and hold seminars...and it's all helpful I guess until it becomes an excuse not to grow up and get over the fact your parent was some kind of bad thing. It becomes part of the trap, you know?

I really tried to manage this relationship. I tried to break out but I would always end up back in her world. Raging about how she was this, and how she did that, and why won't she. and why did she. There was something compelling about the dynamic to both of us, clearly. And the anger is part of the compulsion that keeps you coming back.