One more link that helped me a lot:

"Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers"
< http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/mothers-with-narcissistic-personality-disorder.html>

This is written from the perspective of a daughter, but as a son, I can speak first-hand that basically everything written applies to me, too. I don't think it makes a difference what gender the child is. Certainly there will be a different gender dynamic but the differences will be superficial-- the core damage is the same.

Something else that really helped me was reading about co-dependence because that's what I have, bad. It's the need to constantly fix people and the feeling that if others don't need me (if I'm unable to fix them or support them) then I am not a good human being.

I devoted myself for 8 years to an alcoholic. Classic co-dependency. I gained my NS from her needing me and from other people seeing what a martyr I was.

I want to mention that co-dependency and narcissism both require Narcissistic Supply. So it isn't like one is better than the other. They are both strategies to deal with the same basic problem.

If you're curious if you have more co-dependent or narcsissistic traits (or neither!), look at your past relationships:

Co-dependents are attracted to people with problems. Co-dependents want to fix their partner's problems. They typically take on responsibility, pay the bills, and very rarely leave the relationship (unless they are breaking free from their co-dependent chains!).

Narcissists have problems. They may not even say this (in fact, many narcissists hide their problems but hint at being "dark" or "moody" or "mysterious" or "deep"), but co-dependents realize that here is a person that they can try to fix. For instance my first narcissistic girlfriend (who I was with for 5 years) had severe abuse as a child. She was not your typical narcissist in the stereotyped "look at me" histrionic hypomanic vivacious mode. She was actually quiet, introverted, polite etc-- but she had tons of problems and wasn't able to support herself so it gave me something to do to feel good about myself. "Look at me, here I am supporting this person who has all these problems, and she is growing and learning and changing while I take credit for being the stable force in her life" .... blah blah blah. All narcissistic supply pretending to be "for her good."

So, narcissists tend to be dependent, even though they would never admit it. They put on an air of "I can take you or leave you" and they make sure that everything is your idea. If they can't pay the rent and have nowhere to go, then you offer them a couch and later say "I've been supporting you!" they will just say "It was all your idea, I never asked to stay there."

I mean, that's an extreme case. Of course I've known some really charismatic narcissists who _would_ ask. But in general I see it as a more sneaky kind of thing that they don't even realize they're doing themselves. They are subconsciously setting themselves up to depend on other people without realizing it.

Co-dependents are subconsciously setting other people up to depend on them.

Narcissists depend on people.

Co-dependents depend on narcissists depending on them.

Thanks Elsa! I have been a lurker for a long time but this thread really spoke to me, as you can see ....

Fascinating stuff Jonah - and thanks for all the links.

I hope you can find a way to 'come out from under' at some point, and not feel contrained to constantly second-guess your every emotion and action, and question your own motives. Too much therapy (or reading thereof) can imo be counter productive 😉

I've spent much of the last 24 hours reading the site which Jonah linked about Narcissistic Mothers and I'm quite blown away by what a textbook case my adoptive mother was. I'm very grateful to you Jonah for providing a source of collected wisdom on this subject.

http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-scapegoat.html

That page almost exactly mirrors what happened to my sister and myself (she was adopted a year before me). I always knew by the way that our family situation was highly abnormal - luckily I had two or three things in my favour:

Firstly I was intelligent and intuitive enough to work out what was going on very fast - before I was four, possibly sooner. Secondly, Ma's behaviour esp in respect of scapegoating me, was so extreme that my Sis and Dad didn't fall for it, in the sense that whilst there was little they could do to protect me, they certainly didn't join in the scapegoating. My Sis did always see me as 'victim' however and all the rows we ever had, and the final amputation, were her response to my refusal to [entirely] accept that role in relationship to her. But that's another story, as is her undying 'guilt' for aquiescing in being so favoured.

Thirdly, the wider family recognised the situation and protected me as far as they were able, or at least gave me their support. I quite often went off during school holidays to stay with other family groups - mainly my maternal grandparents, sometimes aunts and uncles, also schoolfriends' families. Ma's father was a distinguished doctor, and he was well aware she was very damaged - he was the only person who had any control over her at all btw.

Finally, I think being adopted worked in my favour: I was always able to distance myself from Ma by intoning (always to myself, never aloud) "She's not even my mother, one day I can walk away". When I did, I felt sorry for my Dad but he made his bed... Long after he was dead she admitted he never wanted children, and his instinct was right - as was Mother Nature's in making my mother barren. I do think though that through my teenage years he stayed with her for my sake; so I never abandoned them while he was alive; when he did try to stand up to Ma, she made both our lives an utter hell; and she tried of course to force him to 'choose between us'.

I firmly believe this quote from the site is true, and I'm sorry to see fellow broad members still struggling with the 'love' they feel for these manipulative parents:

Currently, there is still no cure for NPD. The most common advice therapists give their clients who are involved with a true narcissist remains the same: discontinue contact, or at least limit contact with narcissists as much as you possibly can, because people with NPD cannot change their behavior, and everything must be done on their emotionally abusive terms. Contact with a narcissist always results in emotional abuse.

I don't believe by the way that "my soul chose this path for this lifetime". I really do not think that's the way karma works.

To resurrect the thread, I'm attaching my Mommy dearest's (ahem!) chart.

Decided to bump this because

-it's been a year since I posted this

-I'm now 6 months post-therapy and life has progressed that I've been able to put the skills I learned there to use. The skills work:)

- 2 of my siblings have, completely out of their own volition, come to me about problems with our mother, and have said with intense fear 'I think our mother is a Narcissist' (one told me she'd googled 'parents who pit their children against one another' and started reading about Narcissism)

- I have confirmed that I share this view, and then I share with them what I've learned about it in therapy and what I've done to work with this

- I am learning from my own past behaviour, changing it into something healthier and happier

- both my sisters who have come to me have NN in Capricorn. I genuinely feel that I have more empathy for them and more compassion than I ever have--proof to me our relationships are healing. this is also t.Neptune in my 3rd, and Pluto transit to my n.Mercury