@Caribou, yes you would have had to be the "odd one out" in order not to take on the same characteristics and mirror back to the parent what they wanted to see. Your siblings, unfortunately, were not able to free themselves at this point in time anyway...

I believe we all wrote the scripts we were born into, and thus have to go through the lessons and pain of learning now or learning later...better to suffer and grow than to passively take on another's illness and pass it on to the next generation. Kudos to you too Caribou! (((((( hugs))))))

Serenity

@Serenity: And, yes, I am determined not to let myself become like her in any f***ing way, I was under her shadow for too long! My Internet addiction therapy is a huge step I will be taking to finallydeal with the stuff that led to my addictions!

I may write a lot about my mother and usually in my best 'black Cap' mode, but reading this whole thread is very tough for me as I've no doubt it is for all of us who suffered like this as children. I've not only the usual emotional stuff to deal with - I developed a handicap as a direct result* and that's made my adult life every bit as hard as my childhood.

These people are so dangerous partly because they are so relentless - Ma was still putting me down and playing mind games on her deathbed. And I have Libra - for all I got away I spent most of my life trying to accommodate her... In my forties I left her house with the dog once in floods of tears, and with a five hour drive in front of me I stopped after ten mile - still crying - and walked the dog for an hour, during which I decided never to see her again - to cut off all contact. And I didn't see until she was dying; she'd learned nothing in the meantime

Serenity you seem to have some professional knowledge of this stuff 😉

Esther I'm glad if anything I've written here has a help to anyone else - it's partly purging for me of course but it's also 'bearing witness'. At least I can show that one can survive such stuff and come out both tough AND caring for others.

I never wanted kids though - I was always terrified I might visit some of that crap on my own children... Never! {{{shuddddder}}}

ETA Ref: * It may not have been Ma who caused it (tho I think it was) but she certainly ensured I never threw it off...

"I found this author, who wrote the book "Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisted" by Sam Vaknin...and this series of videos on You Tube very informative and helpful to the layperson"

Tangent here, but I feel this is important.

Be wary of Sam V. Just...be wary. He is himself one (and he does say so, that is not my issue with him) and has hit on a rather unique method of obtaining "supply", by attempting to anoint himself the internet expert on NPD and taking over various support groups for survivors. The PhD he claims is basically from a diploma mill. Many of his claims about his background are shaky and there's lots about this on Google if you're interested.

If he has information you can use and has been helpful to you, all to the good. I really am happy that something good came of what he is doing, honestly. I just like to warn people about him as he is not in this game to help anybody but himself. Some of what he teaches is actually very dangerous to survivors in my opinion.

It is hard to read. And I hesitated to post this thread because it is not an easy thing to understand. Throw Neptune and a lifetime "It's not me; it's you" into the mix and it gets even murkier. The word is bandied about in such a way that many people don't take it seriously.

A while back my mother told me how much she enjoyed how loud I was, and my crying never bothered her because she never felt alone. At the time I felt as though I had a realization: wow, my mother really did love me. As I understand this more and her behaviour more, I see that in fact this is a terrible thing, my mother enjoyed my tears. She still does.

Last summer she picked at me until I was basically sobbing on the floor. I felt destroyed. She turned smiley. She was happy I had cracked because "you always keep everything to yourself...you never show..." etc. Her 12th House Cancer Chiron opposes my Moon. My feelings help her feel.

Oh Kashmiri that is so rough. I feel for you. I can relate. I had to gard my true self so carefully, and was always punished when she found out I had not told her everything. I hate that so much. That is basicly what my brother was up to last night. Sending you so much love.

((((((Kashmiri)))))))

I want everyone in the world to have a right to their autonomy. I just had to say that.

sending love to you all