Here is something dense from 2007. Posting it because it’s good for the Sun and Mercury in Scorpio flavored sky. I am deep into my work right now and have to stay in my process so can’t come up with something new…
Ana commented on the Scorpio Energy… vs Pisces Energy blog…
“The Scorpio energy is more like a zero sum game – for one person to gain energy the other has to lose energy. The energy exchanged is equal of course, but one person gets stuck with a negative balance…”
The comment made an impression on t-carat who referenced it on Cultural Differences Between Asians, Westerners and Italians:
“Like someone rather astutely described Scorpio on this blog: playing a zero-sum game. This is the game many Americans play in a ‘fun’, detached way, or so it appears from my jaded perspective right now.”
Now I respect both these commenters. I enjoy their comments very much but this has been bothering me because I disagree. And eventually it bothered me enough I thought I best respond but the idea pained me so I checked the definition of “zero-sum game” on Wikipedia just to make sure there was no way out and found this:
“In game theory, zero-sum describes a situation in which a participant’s gain or loss is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the other participant(s). It is so named because when the total gains of the participants are added up, and the total losses are subtracted, they will sum to zero.”
Now I am sure this (zero-sum game) has nothing to do with Scorpio. Scorpio exchanges energy and you may very tango with a Scorpio and be injured but that’s where it ends. The Scorpio has absolutely nothing to say about what you do from that point forward.
In fact, they have given you energy (even if it is negative) which means their energy is now yours to use and there is nothing in the world that can stop you from soaring on it if this be your will.
So if you think about that, you can see it negates the idea of a zero sum game. It’s sort of like planting seeds in the ground. Some of them are going to fail or maybe under-perform. But some of them are going to take off like Jack and the Beanstalk which ought to tell the Scorpio, to take care who you injure because your energy is potent. And if you plant seed in fertile ground, you can be easily overwhelmed.
An example would be a musician like Hank Williams who wrote ‘Your Cheatin’ Heart” after being cut. They are going to be playing that song for 100 years so to the gal who stabbed, Hank, well what can you say? Whoops?
Leonard Cohen is another person you may want to think twice about cutting. Remember this blog: Art, Astrology… Sleep With Her Husband At Your Own Risk
I heard one of my favorites in the gym today – Garland Jeffreys. The song was “96 Tears” and it goes like this:
You’re way on top now
Since you left me
You’re always laughin’
Way down at me
But watch out now
I’m gonna get there
We’ll be together
For just a little while
And then I’m gonna put you
Way down here
And you’ll start cryin’
Ninety-six tears
Cry
Cry
And when the sun comes up
I’ll be on top
You’ll be way down there
Lookin’ up
And I might wave
Come up here
But I don’t see you… etc.
Or Watch...
So that’s that. No zero sum game – not even close.
This is because the “zero” Scorpio leaves you always something, never nothing (even if it’s pain) which means it can be manipulated and multiplied by anyone who knows a little math. 😉
scorpios can give off a _lot_ off energy. think that’s one reason people can get scared- that intensity.
I would think that the Scorpio that has a bit of integrity does not leave you with pain. He just shows you where your own pain (or arrogance) is sitting, so it was always there to begin with. Most people are just not able to see it from that angle. Big difference in that, but not always so easily discernible. Maybe he awakens the awareness in that person that he has to change something. Just my view. But I´m sure there are Scorpios and scorpios.
Yes I agree and have pondered on this. There is no loss of energy, just a temporary exchange. Sometimes we need to go deep in order to access something within ourselves and often it is through the cut of a scorpio or a plutonian that takes you there. They are ultimately there to empower people and if you heed what they represent you can feel like you gain alot from the exchange.
If you think about it their opposite is taurus – in it’s most positive form scorpios need to exchange their energy to ground it. And sometimes a taurus needs the energy of a scorpion to change/move.
I have a good friend who is a scorpio. Through her job she empowers everyone around her but inevitably people’s first impression is that she’s a bitch lol.
this zero-sum game stuff sounds a lot more like libra territory…
Now I am sure this (zero-sum game) has nothing to do with Scorpio.
Hrmm. If you were playing Martian games, so to speak, there is a winner and a loser in a fight (between any two signs). Scorpio and Aries might be more prone to fight than other signs. Beyond that small caveat, I agree. I suspect the difference in perception might be due to whether or not someone tends to get in fights with Scorpios.
Hrmm. Since Pisces doesn’t fight so very much, and they do tend to be fairly (self-destructively?) generous, you could stretch that around and argue that Scorpios are comparatively miserly, I suppose, but that doesn’t really get at null sum.
Whatcha need here is a useful definition of Scorpio.
max
[‘I don’t think transformative cuts it.’]
As a Scorpio I would say that Liz has hit the nail on the head. It is often said that I am too blunt. It is never that what has been said is untrue, although that may be the first reaction but maybe they need time to reach a little deeper to find that the truth has been ferreted out by moi'(no, not by snooping), and they need time to cozy to it.
Even when truth feels hurtful it may be that we just need to turn the knob a bit farther until we can turn it to our gain. It doesn’t have to remain a cut or a zero sum game.
My first reaction was to say “Who said the game is OVER?”
What would happen if you asked yourself, “How can I turn this around?”, or “How can I use this to profit by it?” or “I’m not saying she is, but let’s just pretend ol’ Scorpio is half-right, what can I do to change this into an opportunity or an advantage?” Thus continuing the game.
I would call most of my energy exchanges more ‘rehabbing’ (like in house remodeling, not drug detoxing) than transforming. Although at the end, it might be transformative IF the other takes the energy and plays with it wisely.
Who knows – I have been wrong before and will most certainly be wrong again.
And it isn’t necessarily a ‘pity the poor in need of rehab person’, sometimes it just comes blaring out of my mouth situationally, “Hey, did you realize you just squashed all the goody out of Jennifer back there because you never call her anymore, you forgot her birthday this year and just now brushed her off again? Wow – you really suck at friendship. Did something happen?” (this may have more to do w/my Aries Moon ramming ahead)
See most of you would play all nicey nice and the “Did something happen” question would come out first. I just sum up the situation and then get around to wondering how it came about.
Then people get stuck on the ‘you suck at friendship’ line and don’t get the fact that I have just pointed out to you VALUABLE INFORMATION that you’ve been trashing your friendship by way of neglect. I see that I’ve just given you the keys to the kingdom, you see that I’ve hurt your feelings.
Turn the knob until you can see the good in what Scorpio has just said or done.
Most Scorpios I know are of the extremely generous types, not miserly at all, so I don’t get that feeling myself. But, then I don’t go around pissing ’em off either, and try to be mindful of their needs.
What I find happens with myself is that I am a strong woman. Very strong, and come from a stoic background. I find that many never even stop to consider I ever need help or have any needs of my own.
I think that happens with a lot of Scorpios.
We just don’t go around w/our needs all hanging out and thus people think we are these bastions of strength that never weep or crumble. Not so – we are tender souls like our Pisces & Cancer friends, just disinclined to show you our weaknesses. The friend who knows we can be tender-hearted marshmellows and helps us is ALWAYS WELL REWARDED and likely signed on for a lifetime of loyal friendship even if they didn’t know they were signing up.
Being the Rock all the time gets old and you might get cranky and cut to the chase right off too – if you were the one trying to hold all the pieces together. I’m thinking ol’ Samson might have been a Scorpio. We don’t dislike the power that occurs when we manage it all correctly, but ocassionally we do get tired.
Perhaps we should lend Scorpios a hand and they can in return be quite the rewarding friend that you often hear tell of.
But of course, that would require something of you.
Just know, that most Scorpios are watching to see what kind of person you’re going to be first (giver or taker) as we can’t expend a lot of needless energy on people or things who’ll only sap more and MORE of our strength.
Mostly I think we want to see people use their own strengths and we try to bolster and support them in their efforts.
At least that’s the way it’s always played out in my own life, and with the Scorpios I know.
BTW, Elsa, I’ve always liked that song!
lol, I had no idea this comment left such an impression. I don’t mean any disrespect to scorpio, as most of my friends and colleagues are scorpio and I’ve had ample opportunity to experience their empowering side. I was speaking from the negative experiences I have had with scorpios I’ve dated. Consider this:
The “zero sum game” situation rarely occurs in casual or non-sexual contexts, only when something deep is triggered and there is potential emotional loss and jealousy. The slightest possibility that the scorpio doesn’t have the upper hand and can’t own you and your feelings, and the game begins. All kinds of pain is inflicted (pre-emptively) in an effort to avoid being responsible for their own feelings. Remove these triggers and they exchange energy like everyone else.
Elsa is right that the “zero sum game” can be redefined to be a beneficial exchange for both, however, one party is stuck with more work than the other. Like lead transformed to gold, pain CAN be transformed into something positive. The problem? It takes considerably more energy to transform negative energy (like pain) into positive energy, whereas, the one who leaves the exchange with the positive energy does not have to do any work. Zero sum is a reference to the work they leave you with to get over the effects of the pain they dealt you. Meanwhile, they’ve evaded all emotional responsibility and suffer no hurt at the time.
Analysa – “He just shows you where your own pain (or arrogance) is sitting, so it was always there to begin with.”
Yes, the pain is ultimately the recipient’s problem, and it was probably always there waiting to be unearthed. Who else knows this better than the scorpio? They recognize your pain because they have the same pain and won’t deal with it…they let you take care of that. The negative energy always goes somewhere, either they can absorb their own pain and be responsible for its transformation, or you unwittingly end up doing it (or passing it on, I guess).
dreamsAreality –
Ana, you said:
“Meanwhile, they
So Leonard Cohen and Hank Williams Sr are both Virgos! And I dearly love them both, and would be hard off to live without their music.
Scorpios are amazing! so is everyone else. that’s all i’ll say.
Since this thread has been revived I have something to add to this statement:
“The slightest possibility that the scorpio doesn’t have the upper hand and can’t own you and your feelings, and the game begins. All kinds of pain is inflicted (pre-emptively) in an effort to avoid being responsible for their own feelings. Remove these triggers and they exchange energy like everyone else.”
It may seem like a negative scorpio is staying unmoved while playing games that take you down but in reality when they do this they are taking themselves down deeper.. and with the next even deeper.. it is dark and a long way from the light.. these types live in a state of misery. I suppose if they have pisces they could be in denial of it and use that to make you believe they are in a position of power.. but the only real power they have is when they are empowering and being empowered. Mutual.
So if you are with a negative then part of you wants to go down too.. abuse.. neglect.. etc. and once you realize it you get to climb out while they stay down in the deep pretending they have had the upper hand. We all have to go deep sometime.. experience loss.. realize we felt so low we let someone do x,y,z to us.. Scorpios just help us get there.. either through the positive ones that share the empowerment.. asking you the hard questions and pointing out your shadow.. or negative ones that want to go deeper. But I would worry about the person who one way or the other thinks it’s unbalanced.. for they are staying in the dynamic.. part of them staying low instead of rising and moving on.. which was probably the point of the exchange in the first place.
energy can feed off itself like crazy. given the right food. definitely not a finite element, methinks.
pretty much what you’re saying here…?