There has been some dialogue in the comments on the Effects Of Pluto In Capricorn On Cancer / Oppositions In Astrology piece.
Korellyn asked:
“So how does one go about digging into the psyche, barring professional therapy?”
I responded:
“When you think “they” are horrible, just make sure you’re not EXACTLY like them… and when you find out you are – then integrate.”
Del responded:
“When you think “they” are horrible, just make sure you’re not EXACTLY like them… and when you find out you are – then integrate.”
You just gave me more on one blog post than years of therapy ever did. I think this might be the only thing I need to carry with me for the rest of my life. Wow. Seriously, I can’t thank you enough.
So, if this thing you find out you can’t stand which is within you is something you don’t WANT to integrate but to divest yourself of forever, what then? Atone?
Del – No. You integrate and accept it. Just think of a what a shadow is. Everyone has one. Everyone casts a shadow, yes? Should you atone for this? I don’t think so although sorting through those precise feelings might very well be part of the process.
Scorpio / Pluto / 8th house often feels repulsive. These are feelings that have to be worked through and ultimately integrated and transcended. EVERYBODY HAS A SHADOW.
Take that Virgo who thinks it’s a good idea to watch videos on youtube and leave insulting comments. I bet you anything she things she is a great person. But look what her shadow does when she thinks no one is looking. She uses a screen name and she can’t see her own ass.
The challenge is to become aware of your negative energy and then channel in ways that are productive and healing to yourself and others. This is not that hard but impossible as long as you believe you have no ass.
This makes sense. No wonder I feel like my thoughts/fears are repulsive (Mercury-Pluto), and having this all in Libra I’ve always preferred to just project it onto someone. But now I’m trying to use it to heal/transform my thoughts.
I wish I’d seen this explanation through some of my previous Pluto trials and tribulations! Thanks..
Yeah, thanks! I find these blogs really helpful. For me, it seems to relate to stuff you posted recently about the Virgo-Pisces axis and changing the way you feel about something (can’t find that blog now). I’m probably mixing up feeling with thinking because I have a Gemini moon, but I perceive these issues as related – transform the way you think about something.
Thank you so much for expanding on this idea. I know Pluto is going to kick my ass over the next few years, and I appreciate the preparation.
Is there something happening astrologically right now that’s bring forth possible repressed stuff and shadows?
I’m feeling it intensely, but wondering about the astrology.
I feel like at this point I have worked through a lot of stuff, and am honest enough to admit and intergrate just about anything…. I am really not a big projector. I am wondering if this will and does cause me to experiance these types of transits literally rather than metaphorically.
What do you do when a person *knows* they have an ass, are being an ass, but they don’t care? As long as they’re not caught, have no consequences, they don’t care if they are an ass. Power trip of the century I bet.
“What do you do when a person *knows* they have an ass, are being an ass, but they don’t care?
You’re describing a sociopath but that’s only half the story.
That person also knows that you have an ass and if you don’t they are going to exploit this fact to high heaven with spectacular results.
Of course, that’s their game. They count on this very component to win – they get you to look dirty! But as you mentioned, this only works on a good target. And perhaps amidst all their maneuverings they forget to cover up their tracks…little by little they are cornered, revealed, exploited. The tactics that they use can also be used against them, a double-edged knife. Pluto is in Capricorn after all, power is found in integrity.
How can one integrate their shadow material? If I actually see it then reflect on my shadow material and decide that I do not like it, what do I do next?
Do I hate my shadow part and thus hate part of myself? Will it go away if I feel guilty, or apologise to someone? Will I be scared of my shadow and not go out for a few weeks?
Jung described in mineral rescources language a concept called “mining the dark” but he didnt say whether one should use a pick hammer or a very large bulldozer to do that. Buckets are a good measure to start with in my view.
kingsley
Integration involves love of the Self and the Shadow, not hate.
Kingsley I’m not sure if you’re asking this rhetorically, but this set of questions does not involve integration, in my view:
“Do I hate my shadow part and thus hate part of myself? Will it go away if I feel guilty, or apologise to someone? Will I be scared of my shadow and not go out for a few weeks?”
I think this way of thinking is based on the confession/repenting ideology of Christianity and creates more division within the person, and not integration.
One can repeatedly ask deep and penetrating spiritual/psychological questions and through rhythmic questioning imbed in the Self a desire to see things for as they are–without shame and self-deprecation.
Lose the self abuse and integration will come easier, in my opinion.
What if you come across something in someone that you hate but has nothing whatsoever to do with you? (Elsa was very offended by that bumper sticker she posted about earlier, but I’d venture a guess that it doesn’t represent something within her she’s trying to deny.)
So let’s say you go out on a few dates with someone who you eventually find out has multiple DUIs, a filthy house, messy custody issues because the babymama keeps violating probation, whatever, while you live a really clean and peaceful life.
That’s happened to me recently (I told him I couldn’t deal with this and stopped dating him) and I ask you this: If you find something abhorrent, does it automatically mean it’s your shadow? Or can you simply recognize crap as crap, which has nothing to do with you? I’d like to think so, but I also think that the universe brings you people you need to learn from. On the other hand, there’s a lot of randomness afoot, and I don’t want to read more into situations than what’s really there. You meet people, you like them or you don’t, and you move on.
Oh, that Libra in my chart could go on for days…
Um. Holy shit. I heard an audible click as I read through this series (I’ve been at work all day, then had a drink with a new “friend”, and then…yeah…) anyway…it’s kinda bugging me, because that just is SO COMPLETELY OUT OF CHARACTER for me. Well, for who I am now. But in my past life (like, in my youth) it was NOT a big deal (because let’s be honest – sex is FUN, dammit) and now, I guess because I’ve lived up here for 13 years as wife/soccer mom/how can I help you today it feels off. Waaaay off.
My sun is in Cancer, 11th house, sq MC. If I’m getting this right, 11th house is social – friends and *benefactors*, roughly. Pluto is heading into my (empty) Capricorn 5th. Again, if I’m reading it right, the 5th is where sex and eroticism are “at home”. Adding Capricorn brings about either “prudish” and/or “highly sexed”, which is one helluva twist but true true true in my case. I love sex, but I’ve always felt weird about how much I love sex. I haven’t had any for like three years, and now I have and I feel weird about it.
Besides, we had a drink. In town. At a bar. Full of people. It’s gonna be in the damned paper next week, probably! GAH!
Integrate it? How the hell do I integrate it without feeling like a whore? Because seriously, I am NOT interested in any kind of “relationship” right now. With anyone. This dude is a lot older than I am, he’s got money, and he’s not ever been reluctant to share that with whatever young woman is on his arm. If there is one thing I need now as much as I need to feel like I am attractive and all that jazz…I need money. I don’t want him to build me a house, for God’s sake. (He actually did that for one of his past women…holy shit.) I just would love for him to have my back if I get messed up here on under $1000 a month (*before* taxes!) keeping a roof over my kid’s head.
*deep breath* Thank God both of my brothers are devoted Christians and wouldn’t dream of reading an astro site…their knees would never survive the amount of prayer they’d be doing.
/ verbal vomit on Elsa’s blog.
“Integrate it? How the hell do I integrate it without feeling like a whore?”
Seriously? I’d suggest if your town is that small Kris, you meet someone in the next town over, through somewhere like Craigslist, and forget doing it close to home.
You have the right to be a sexual being.
And I don’t know, some of us like feeling like a whore from time to time. I know I do, and if you have a problem with it, well guess what? I won’t be having sex with YOU!
Whatever turns your crank!!
If you are safe, and you are of a sound mind, then do whatever the hell you like. Your body, your mind, your soul.
Elsa mentioned a great metaphor the other day, which was ‘tailoring.’ As in there is no foul if you choose to have something *over here* and something *over here.* No one in your town’s business, that’s for freaking sure.
“If you find something abhorrent, does it automatically mean it’s your shadow?”
I don’t think so..I wonder if it could be that this repulsion is an indication that a person has learned/integrated this in thing (living in a sty/custody/parole issues their life already [through karma in this lifetime or ~whatever~] and it simply isn’t his/her lesson to learn…again!
I think a person can ‘recognize’ where they don’t need to go..again. I’m interested in what other people think.
Del, your post and its questions resonates with me. I’m always analyzing: how random is this or that or why, have I got the lesson? I think people can “recognize crap as crap, which has nothing to do with you” and maybe that’s the message the universe is sending? That it’s a test to measure how far you’ve come on your journey? For sometimes we feel yeah, I’ve gotten that lesson, but maybe we really haven’t…or we don’t know we have until we are confronted with an example of it again. So maybe as you said, the universe brings us people to learn from, and some lessons are blessedly short because we get it right away. Thanks for your post, Del. I’ve been thinking a lot about this issue lately, and how I can align myself with integrity, with who I really am (shadow and all) and manifest more of those compatible energies in my life.
Yes, Kashmiri, I agree with you…a person “can recognize where they don’t need to go…again.” They see it as an undesirable place to go, but then some go again anyway. That’s an interesting point to me–the pull of obsession going against one’s better judgment…why & how that happens. Any thoughts?
Kashmiri – the towns up here are roughly 5 miles apart, and it’s an incestuous thing between the towns. Short of me hauling 40 miles to the nearest “big” town (20,000) or 70 miles to the cities, it’s not gonna matter.
But here’s the thing – why the hell should I have to hide the fact that I am still a woman? I mean, the ex doesn’t give a shit. When the rumors started (two weeks ago, and I hadn’t done anything but have drinks with him then) I told the ex about the rumors. His response? “It’s none of my business what you do.”
Wanna talk about your validation for getting the hell out of an 18 year marriage? There it is. Right there.
It’s just uncomfortable for me right now because although this is more my true nature, it’s not the me anyone around here has ever seen. So it creates much buzz, especially when coupled with the WHO on the other end of the equation.
I feel less freaked this AM, and I’m gonna roll with it. This whole experience is about leaving who I’ve pretended to be for the past almost 20 years and being authentic. I suppose that’s what is meant by integrating, right? It won’t be easy, but it is what it is and I’m done hiding.
yes… and a lot of the energy people find rreplsive _can_ be channelled constructively… it just takes more courge to face the dark, i think, particularly since our culture seems to like to repress it, and bucking a cultural trend can be extremely challenging… and make you a target for other people’s shadows… but that’s their problem more than yours… which helps me to realize it’s not personal, which makes it way easier to deal with positively.
“I’m done hiding” I hear you! Pluto is finished with my 12th House and crossed my ASC. Hiding is not necessary when you are making moves to be true to yourself, as you are.
Spirdermoon I lean on the side of thinking that “the pull of obsession going against one’s better judgment…why & how that happens” (as you so eloquently put it) has to do with the South Node/North Node axis.
For example, I have an Aries South Node.
It’s an ongoing obsession for me to ‘stand up for myself’ as well as ‘fly solo’ and ‘be independant’, ‘do my own thing’ etc…
I’ve had my SO say point blank “You want to be alone? Well its up to you to be alone isn’t it!” He’s also helped me see that the only person who stops me from being independent is me.
So I do things like go for walks alone, go to the beach alone, sth in the house puttering, alone…all these things I do while allowing my Self to meander and do its thing…so I don’t resent other people because I don’t take responsibility for my own needs on an emotional/psychological level.
Martin Schuman’s book on the North Nodes is a good read. I’ve done a little brainstorming/list with keywords and thoughts as well as symbols I associate with my South Node (and its aspects). Stepped away and then looked at what I’ve got. That really helped too.
These are some things I’ve done/looked at to integrate my shadow. I think everyone can learn what works for them but patience is necessary because it doesn’t happen fast.
Spidey, thanks for letting me know I’m not the only one who’s feeling this way. It occurred to me this morning that in encounters, I’m not the only one learning; there’s another party there, too. Maybe the purpose of some of these meetings is for them to get the reaction that serves their learning purpose: The guy who wants a relationship with a stable woman (or so he claims) learns from me that if he wants to attract someone like that, he’s got to get his shit together first.
I’m always unconscious of how I affect other people, but if they affect me, it’s got to be a two-way street. “The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances. If there is any reaction, both are transformed…” ~ Jung
Yet another reason to keep my side of the street clean.
Del, that’s another thing I often wonder: do we ever really know what “lesson” the other person is getting from his/her encounter with us? Sometimes I am thinking “WTF” with certain people/situations and then I have to remind myself (without getting all self-righteous and whatever) that maybe the purpose is for them to learn something from me…and for me to, as you so eloquently put it, “keep my side of the street clean”…and that is all. Great quote from Jung, btw…
Thank you for that info, Kashmiri. I am not all that familiar with the nodes and need to learn more. Will look into that book. Also, when I’ve had my chart done, there is something called the “true node” and I’m wondering how this is different from the NN/SN. I liked the way you explained how that works in your chart–very easy to understand. I believe my NN is in Scorpio, 10th house…will have to doublecheck my chart. Something new to learn and explore and think about–thanks!
You mean they think their thoughts/feelings are morally repulsive?
Spidey! Now I KNOW I’m here to teach some people some of the time. There was a guy on ______.com I was talking to for a while, we got along great, and HE was the one to bring up astrology… He had noticed that we’re both of the same Sun Sign, offered his Moon and Rising and asked if I knew mine. Well, I said I knew a little about this kind of thing, asked for his birth date, which ended up being 10 YEARS older than his stated profile age.
I was not reallll happy about that and told him I was looking for someone who wasn’t deceptive about age/height/marital status. It’s just a rule with me. And he wrote back:
“Now that I’ve had a reaction like yours, I changed my profile age to __. I see that I’ve got to be the same on the Internet as I am in person. Except, of course, I don’t wear a tag stating my age in person. People just judge me as I am and are later shocked to find my age. It’s too late by then because they already love me. I guess I was trying to simulate the same situation by using my apparent age instead of my actual in the profile. Thanks for helping to set me straight on that.”
Well, they all have their justifications, but this guy really got what was presented to him and applied it. I walked away with no more than I started with, but he woke up to something and made some changes. I no longer think every random thing has to be about me. Hallefreakinlujah.
And he’s really nice, should one of you want to date him. 🙂
“I no longer think every random thing has to be about me”
That’s nothing short of awesome, Del. You probably have the key to happiness for (a no small percentage) some people right there…
Great anecdote, Del; thanks for sharing that. I am evolving toward a de-personalization of the universe in my everyday life (add “how to” to that and you have a self-help book title! lol). Getting better at it…and while I am recognizing more quickly situations when the lesson could be for the other person, I still sometimes am a little too sensitive in dealing with the aftermath…I liked the way you handled the guy online…sometimes I just throw up my hands and say, why bother and walk away [to go lick my wounds in private], but I like how you handled the situation…I can learn from that. Thanks for teaching me, too! 🙂
Such a fascinating topic. Kashmiri, I love what you said in comment 11.
My experience with integration – and I’m going through some now – is that it’s often spontaneous. It can be brought about (I think) by transits, lessons from the universe, as part of our souls journey, in meeting mirrors, etc….
Because of some “outside” factors lately, my shadow (a large part of it) has come out into the forefront. I can see where I project it sometimes. (He does this, not me) (Things are this way) etc… but I am dreaming a lot right now and very “disturbed.” I feel agitated all the time. And I feel like I’m trying to integrate, even though I don’t really feel like I consciously chose this.
The process of “integration” feels, well, clumsy and cumbersome.
But it’s happening now because, it seems, it has to. I have choices; I can be aware of it, listen to it, own it, see it or just keep pushing it back there. Pushing it back there, at this stage, really isn’t an option.
Reading through these responses, I forget how much people are bothered by shadow and what their 8th house/Scorpio/Pluto represents.
I’ve lived with this energy for a long time having Sun, Moon, Mercury all conjunct each and conjunct Pluto in 8th house Libra. I can’t run from my shadow. I can’t hide from it. I can’t project it onto other people because like a boomerang, I see it come back to me. I don’t know how much integration I can do.
However, I have noticed the reactions of people near me. They seem disturbed by my very presence. I wonder if I make the shadow more conscious within them?
Very interesting…
Wow this sounds like me
Yes its an element of life that has been a theme for me (libra sun mc conjunct Pluto and 4 planets in scorpio), and especially now (pluto squaring sun).
Having your shadow revealed to you is a really profound process and not easy. But it comes with some unexpected realizations that have brought me true joy and some freedom.
I don’t think its “wrong” to project your shadow though. Itll come up when the persona is thinned out enough and maturity is there to see the truth. Its a really natural process if it your destiny to integrate.