Pisces, Neptune, Saints, Sinners, Violence, Rape And Projection

Y’all know how much I love to talk about the Hall Of Mirrors. The Pisces, Neptune saint / sinner phenomena is related and just as interesting.

Yesterday I did the video about how I would defend myself and my family using violence. Typically this kind of aggressiveness is frowned upon, particularly if you’re a woman. I wrote about this in the comments.

When I took that self defense class, stories were told of women who fended off rapists in real life. Maybe they talked their way out or in one case there was a local woman who used one of the techniques taught in the class. She got the guy off her when he was already on top her, raping her and you might note that this meant she was clearly acting in self defense.

Now those women were held up as heroes but what about the woman (me) who sees the man in her bedroom, knows he intends to harm her and shoots him in the head before he can act? I guess she’s a cold-hearted bitch. I guess she is hard core, she’s probably crazy and this makes no sense.

In order to be seen as a good woman, I guess you have to make sure the guy injures you before you can fight and with rules like that, no wonder women (in general) are so pissed off! Here’s a little tidbit from the soldier:

He says that in the end, ALL people fight. He assures me that everyone fights for their life eventually. The thing is by the time they decide to fight it’s typically too late. Fight for your life after he’s got you tied up? Good luck with that.

Once you have facts like this it becomes very clear what course of action makes sense, at least it does to me. You fight when you have the best chance of winning as opposed to when you have no choice at all but here’s the saint / sinner piece:

I also wrote about being the person on the block who would take out the rapist. If this is the case, then lets hope that the rapist comes to my house otherwise someone (innocent) is going to get hurt. So lets say this is exactly what happens. A rapist breaks into my house and I shoot him dead in bedroom doorway. Does that make me a “saint”? Or “sinner”.

I think it makes me saint. Because I took this action, others are spared plus I have to deal with and contain the aftermath which would be extensive from the clean-up… on down. But would others see it that way?

Probably not. Probably see me in all kinds of shadow. I’d be the house on the block where the bad thing happened and why is that?

It’s because I’d have just done something they would not have done and because of that, they’ve got to make it wrong. No one is going to say this: “Hey, Elsa. Thanks for killing that bastard,” although they should.

I know this because I live with the soldier and no one ever says, “Hey soldier! Thanks for killing that bastard,” although they should.

This is how I see this, what about you?

20 thoughts on “Pisces, Neptune, Saints, Sinners, Violence, Rape And Projection”

  1. I totally agree with you. What about the woman who is beaten every day by her spouse and then one day she kills him??? She 9 times out of 10 goes to jail for it, why??? I don’t understand, I see it as he got what was coming to him,lol. I guess I am just hardcore when it comes to defending oneself. I always drive with my car doors locked, it is just habit. My husband makes fun of me sometimes but he doesn’t know what it is like to be female in the world today, I am not taking any chances.

  2. Well I *am* the house on the block where something bad happened and it’s not the first time I’ve had this distinction. It all goes back to that stuff I said about Elizabeth Smart, etc. Some of us just carry the shadow for others, that’s all there is to it.

  3. “You fight when you have the best chance of winning as opposed to when you have no choice at all”

    Absolutely. This is finally starting to sink in for me. You gotta strategize how you fight. Well put!

  4. i think society is afraid of women being fierce. i’m not sure why, but it’s an old reticence, from what i can tell.

  5. Elsa and all: this is in reply to a previous post about a Movie of the Month Club. Last weekend I watched a movie starring Tommy Lee Jones called “The Three Burials of Melquides Estrada” and it’s stuck with me all week. It’s really slow, but I think it really depicts a Plutonian descent for a despicable character, and it;s only untl the very very end that you realize this despicable character has learned his lesson. Basically this corrupt border patrol agent shoots and kills a Mexican immigrant, and his American friend wraps up the immigrants dead body, kidnaps the agent, and takes him on a journey back to Mexico. I found it very moving, on a lot of levels (power of friendship, honoring the dead, redemption and forgiveness, etc etc). I keep wondering if you and the soldier might like it.. just wanted to suggest it now. Have a great weekend!

  6. As a person with a significant amount of fire in her chart, I could never judge on how someone defends themselves against danger.

    If you told me you shot someone in the head I would find it a gruesome tale, but I wouldn’t think that you were a saint OR a sinner. I’d think “fuck, that sucks that you were embroiled in such a horrific situation.”

    I already said it, but I can’t in good faith say I’d know what I’d do. Mars/Neptune/Saturn trine…reality canNOT be predetermined for me.

    A story: I was 18 and on a packed bus. 2 men started harassing me and I told them off, loudly. They continued with their lewd comments, and I protested loudly, I remember saying “Yeah, and all you fuckers sit there silent while a teenaged girl gets sexually harassed by grown men.”
    No one even acknowledged my existence. I went to the front of the bus and told the bus driver, who did nothing. As in, I may as well been talking to a ghost. I dunno, maybe I was.
    I got off the bus and these men followed me, and I couldn’t help but continue to flip them the bird.
    They were yelling how they were going to anally rape me into next Tuesday and I was so angry I was just walking really fast ahead of them yelling back “Yeah try it assholes.”

    Then I had this really cold fear come over me really fast, I all of a sudden realized where I was and the danger I was in. I walked into the first yard, up the step, rang the bell, the door answered,and I stepped into his living room, and said “These men are following me and saying they’re going to rape me” and the man who answered the door RAN. He ran off without even saying a word. No “which men” or “where did they go” the dude just took off like a bat out of hell.
    I sat down in his living room and looked at his TV, which was on, and a pile of 20s on his table, and a camera. and thought “This is some seriously bizarre shit.”

    He took about 15 minutes and then came back. He couldn’t find them (of course not! Mars-Neptune, they disappeared). Offered to drive me home and I just thanked him and walked off back into my normal life.

    Mars-Neptune is really odd. You think you have a battle on your hands and it becomes like trying to hold sand in your hand. the problem is, with this Grand Trine that includes Saturn (which is in my 8th) and one day the violence becomes real instead of imagined. That’s what keeps me on my toes.

  7. Well, I took a RAD self-defense class during the summer. I was the worst one in it, I am sorry to say. I got in “trouble” for pre-emptively attacking the attackers. The reason they train you not to is because if you shoot/injure them BEFORE they start to hurt you, YOU will be the one who is prosecuted and go to jail, not them. (Note those cases of women who did kill their attackers when they were not being attacked and ended up in jail.) They have to physically start committing the act of harm before you are off the hook for defending yourself.

    Let me just say that the horror for me was standing there with these guys walking up KNOWING that THEY ARE GONNA GRAB YOU and I wasn’t allowed to do shit about it before someone laid a hand on me! Benefit of the doubt (or whatever you call this in this situation) really is awful.

  8. A while back a group of women – whose children had been raped by a known gang – burst into the shebeen / bar where these guys hung out. The women took out an AK47 each and shot them to pieces. They were arrested and there was much debate about taking the law into your own hands etc. Interestingly, none of these women were convicted or spent any time doing time.

    An old lady was mugged around here the other day – in her 60’s and large – when the guys were demanding her handbag at knifepoint she put the bag between her legs and weed on it. They left her alone.

    The things we do…

  9. “They have to physically start committing the act of harm before you are off the hook for defending yourself.”

    We have the “make my day” law here which states if someone is in your house, your can kill them – period.

    As to shooting someone in the leg, the soldier explained to me if someone is on crack, one bullet will not necessarily stop them which is why he’s suggested I keep shooting. Also takes you away from the “i can’t defend myself because I am a girl” mindset which I think is important. If I am going to use deadly force, it is going to be deadly and this is why I feel good – this decision is made.

    Not really suggesting anyone follow suit. Only that you CAN. This is self defense from an SF point of view rather than an PC point of view so which direction you take can depend on how (decidedly) effective you want to be.

    And YES, Cassi, they should thank us for going to court against the bastards, I’ve done it myself more than once and it ALWAYS thankless.

  10. Avatar

    Kashmiri – I totally agree with your sentiment. I wouldn’t see it as saint or sinner I’d feel sympathy that you’d have to be embroiled or deal with such a situation.

    I remember going on a first date years ago to a movie with a guy I really liked. The movie we saw was “long kiss goodnight” I was cheering the woman on when she went after the guys and this date that I was with got so uncomfortable. We talked about it over dessert after the movie and then there was no second date. I was too into her being violent he said.

    I still laugh about that to this day. If we hadn’t seen that movie we probably would have continued to date and had things fall apart awkwardly as he wouldn’t be able to put his finger on what energy about me made him uncomfortable. So that is a favorite movie for me just for that reason alone.

    Thankfully there are men in this world that appreciate my umm…. independence as it were. And yes, I probably would kill a guy that came into my home to attack me. I’ve held friends recovering from rape and the police ignoring their rape kit. (welcome to small rural america).

    I do agree that we’re all capable of violence. It just depends upon the situation.

  11. Remember the Pisces defense thing that you mentioned about relaxing your body instead of tensing it when someone grabs you? I found out that MANY children do it instinctively when they don’t want to be picked up. On the other hand, they’re not scared, just angry.

  12. Plus aren’t you guys afraid of being put in the pen if you can’t prove that the damage was done in self defense? P.S. kashmiri, that story’s freaking scary. I have Neptune in the 11th and all sorts of weird people try to talk to me. I have talked to homeless people and forced myself to cut that off. I dream of traveling alone but am worried about it because I feel unsafe around weird men. I guess the agency of women only goes so far. We tell them off and act strong, but we realize they may make good on their threats and rape us in the ass.

  13. Dina that was about 14 years ago, and since then I have travelled alone. I accepted that all kinds of oddballs do want to talk to me, and I just do. Talk to them I mean.
    I have a sister who had severe PTSD and she was very worried and scared all the time around certain kinds of strangers, esp. street people with mental health issues. I think it is legitimate to be concerned but I believe that fear can overcome a person and start to run their life if not checked.

    And, as has been mentioned already on this blog a woman stands a far greater chance of being attacked and abused by a person she knows than a random stranger.
    Though it is a GOOD thing that people learn self-defense, as it is empowering.

  14. One of my professors told a story this past week about a paper a woman wrote for her class. It was about the time when, as a teenager, she and two friends of hers were on a road trip and the car broke down.
    As they were on the side of the road, a nice, fatherly-looking man stopped and asked if they would like a ride into town to talk to a mechanic. Since it was dark and they didn’t know where they were, the ladies accepted his offer.
    Well, while they were in the car they passed about three service stations. The woman spoke up and said, “That was a service station right there. Aren’t you going to stop?” and while the guy was talking, something about taking them to his house to call someone, her friend in the backseat kicked the back of her seat to get her attention and then pointed at the door. She looked over and noticed there was no interior handles.
    This lady didn’t think about it. She noticed a screwdriver lying between the seats, grabbed it, and stabbed the man through the thigh. After she did that, the friend sitting behind the driver reached around and grabbed his throat. They fought with him for a while, but eventually he slowed down and jumped out of the car and they were able to get away.
    I don’t know the aftermath, but I hope the guy was prosecuted.

    Too bad she didn’t go for his eyes, is what I thought when I was listening. 😉 I have only one thing to say to people that can and will defend themselves: Good on ya!

  15. “You fight when you have the best chance of winning as opposed to when you have no choice at all…”

    Thanks for this bit, it really resonates with how I’m learning to live my life right now.

  16. Do you know what i think is silly…?
    When you ask people, what would you do in such situation?
    They all say: shoot em, kill ‘m bla bla bla bla bla..
    When it comes down to it, you dont know how you react.

    When i was younger i felt i had to fight with injustice beeing done, didnt care police or teacher/ parents etc.
    After i had childeren i softened up.. well i did fought while pregnant. I stood up for the childeren at the playground.

    Some men i wished i could have deformed so badly that they have to invent a new wheelchair for ‘m, killing would be to quick.
    Talking about men who take advantage of girls going out, or drugging them.. applause.. men! Champions! Having sex (even under age) while beeing unconsious.. takes a real man to do so. Sleezy foxes.

    Last year my cousin had a bad drink, became violent towards me out in the streets ,he strangled me, kicked me and hit me.. NOBODY lifted a finger (to call the police). There were people walking the street and the neighbours saw it.
    Who are the sinners here?
    Me? (Because i have said something?) My cousin? (For not knowing better beeing drunk or hitting a girl..) or the zombies on the street?

    Sinner saints.. duality of the SAME coint.
    Welcome on earth..

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