“I agreed with that priest,” he said. “When he said that men should not be out drinking in bars leaving the women home take care of the kids. However, I do think a man ought to be able to go somewhere on a weekend, for an hour or so, some place where there are no women. Where he can be with just men, only men, where there no women he has to deal with.”
“I see.”
“Yeah. What’s the first thing you do when you’re a kid and you build a fort? You put up a sign, NO GIRLS ALLOWED, and I don’t understand why women can’t allow this. Why they feel they have to be included and bother men in the places they have reserved for themselves. They have to file lawsuits to get themselves allowed.”
“Uh huh.”
“Yeah. So then they get in and the minute they do whatever the place was, it is no longer what it was. A woman comes in and it changes the thing completely.”
“It does?”
“Yes. Men just don’t act around women, the way they do when they are with nothing but men. As soon as just one woman comes in, it’s over. Men have to start doing all kinds of things because she is there. So why is this, P? Why can’t women give men this little bit of accommodation? A little bit of time and space where we can be with each other? You don’t like to do what we do anyway.”
Anyone?
I have no problem with sending my Aries man off to spend time with other men. But he has told me he doesn’t much like the general pissing contests that a bunch of guys can get into, so he would rather go off by himself than hang with the guys. He has his Sun sq Uranus and sees himself as the “Odd” one . . . men! 🙂
aries sun/aquarius moon girl speaking:
actually, i tend to enjoy men’s conversations more than women’s. but i couldn’t say i know what would be different if i weren’t there. though i’m not all that interested in people making accommodations based upon my gender anyway.
everyone’s different. gender’s only a little piece of that. i mean, can you even figure gender by the horoscope? i don’t think so.
i say, though, if you want a private party, do it at a private place, and make your own rules there. a public place should be public to all. *shrug*
They don’t want to get into a crummy fort, they want to get into where the decisions that affect the world are made and where the money is.
If a man can’t work and be himself where women are he’s been living in a cave for the last 2-3 decades…
Most of my closest friends are men. I like hanging out with them and doing geeky stuff like playing computer games at all hours. LAN party! So this idea that my closest friends may be acting completely different around me just because a physiological difference has always bothered me. I don’t expect anyone to get the door for me and I don’t mind them going around with their pants unbuttoned, so what’s the big deal?
I would encourage my husband to do things without me sometimes if he wanted to. However we have the same friends so this doesn’t happen very often.
I agree that men can and should be able to be separate from women, just as women should be able to be separate from men, whenever they want to. Why would anyone be forced to hang out with someone they don’t want to (This, of course, is theoretically entirely separate from a work environment)?
That said, you know, there are men’s clubs for this sort of thing, and while I enjoy speaking with both men and women, I know some of what men talk about when they just hang out together, and you know what? A lot of the time it is boring as hell and has nothing to do with me. So I’m not gonna want to be around.
Sounds like the Soldier just doesn’t want a particular kind of woman around, because anybody with a brain in her head is not going to want to hang out with people who don’t want to hang out with her.
*shrugs* It’s no problem for me if the boys want time by themselves sometimes. I like going to a women-only gym and would be upset if a bunch of guys decided they had to ruin my gym-time just to not feel excluded. But I also agree with t-carat that far too many of the men-only places in our society are where the important decisions get made, and that is -not- ok.
“Why can’t women give men this little bit of accommodation? A little bit of time and space where we can be with each other? You don’t like to do what we do anyway.”
Because some women are afraid of being left out, I think.
I think Wyrdling said it right: “a public place should be public to all”. Places of business have no right to discriminate, as decision-making and power should be distributed amongst all.
Aside from that, private groups should be able to do whatever they want. Guys should have their own spaces for themselves. Lately, many women-only spaces have also popped up, and I think women are more themselves when men are not around. I think the Soldier is onto something.
Damn, if I had a fort it would say “no boys allowed!” Every woman deserves her own guy-free zone to do and be whatever she pleases 😉
Women concentrate too much on men and their “places of power” (which mostly they´re not, it´s just that the plain “being buddies and playing the same game” is one of the fundaments of male power execution as well). They are free enough to create their own power spaces apart from “what males want and how I keep being attractive”. There are, in fact, many women around the world, especially in third world countries, that managed to keep the guys out and develop their own concepts. So please, girls, don´t whine outside the crummy fort – get creative in your own (sister)hood!
I myself enjoy both sorts of parties, and yes, they ARE quite different. It´s just so easy to get rid of a male in a mostly female crowd – we just need to start talking about menstrual problems and he´s gone.
And I agree with the soldier on the undercurrents between the sexes. Very interesting stuff…
When i was with my ex, his mates would demand ‘boy-time’ which i had no problem with as i trusted him but he’d go and come home early saying the others had all gone onto a strip joint or to clubs where there were other women to chat up, thereby defeating the point of avoiding women not to mention the indescretions toward their girlfriends. His boytime mostly revolved around football as do plenty of mens hence the term football widows. I’ve always preferred a mixed crowd..often the men and women would seperate to talk periods/football but other times we’d talk with each other. For me this leads to more understanding..as genders we’re divided enough. Maybe it does stem from childhood – when boys go thru that period of disliking girls for whatever reason (why do they? and do girls go thru a similar thing – i certainly dont remember doing so) which then carries thru to adult hood, a sentimental attachment to a childhood memory of boys together perhaps.
I absolutely agree with the soldier….men do need their private time with other men and not another woman around. That is why lots of men create their own caves to go to when they need down time….a bar, an office, a little room off the back of the house, fishing, hunting,…etc….they need and require it to feel their sense of manhood and solidarity.
Growing up, my father had a group of men that he would meet to talk, drink, play cards, fish, whatever and he gave him such enjoyment…his called each of them his “socios” and they were tight.
My husband has the same kind of group….guys he meets up with after work at a bar just to chew the fat..and enjoy male time and as a woman, I love this…makes them more manly for this….
I notice this in what is referred to as a”man’s man”……
denamaria – I think the acceptance of this (or lack of it) is cultural… and also sociological.
In other words women like me and you are becoming dinosaurs, LOL. Not that I think this will last because things always come roaring back and with a vengeance.
I agree as well that men should share moments with men too. In tribes this was done. Womyn did the same thing. I do the same thing. We as people need to bond with others. So whether it is a mens group or a womyns circle, I find it a great way to re-charge and bond and develop healthy relationships. Especially if men (and womyn) did not have a healthy relationship with their parents or no structure in the home.
Because it hurts to feel left out?
I do agree that it hurts to feel left out – which is why some women seem to spend their efforts trying to gain entry into the boy’s treehouse. But at the same time, our society hasn’t valued those special times when women gather with other women – traditionally this would have happened before weddings, etc.
I think men do need time with other men and have no problem shuffling the Aussie off to hang out with his guy friends. I know he’s happy as a clam to ship me off for my things too.
I go to a woman’s club now and really don’t want men to join!