To a client…
“You’re right about this guy’s pathology, but so what? Just because you correctly identify a pattern in someone’s behavior, this does not mean they are going to change it to meet a standard that you set.
Your boyfriend is far more likely to do exactly what he always does. It’s like saying, hey! You have blonde hair! Well so I do, they say!
Even if they’re surprised at what you’ve plucked out and shown to them, they’re still very likely to just go off and live with their blonde hair as it is. A person is not going to just start making adjustments to fall into line with what you think is proper. Why would they? It’s hard to be something you’re not or to change your way of being. Very few are going to do that, there’s no motivation to make that kind of effort…”
Do you really, really understand that you’re not running the other person’s life?
Alanon brought this home to me. Their motto was “Let go and let God”. The only person you can change is yourself. Soometimes when you change it changes the dynamics of a relationship and the other person may change in response, but that is always their choice.
You would think this is obvious, but no, people do not get it.
Like the other day when we were discussing people liking an imbalance of power. Some people are going to live this way a and you’re not going to “talk” them out of it. People are going to accomodate you just a little, whatever is easy. I agree, no motivation at all.
Now I do. I can credit a certain loud-mouthed Italian astrologer for bringing it home, though. 😉
There was a period in my twenties when I didn’t realize I was trying to control others. It was something I was hiding from myself (Pluto, anyone?). Once I let that go, though, I became much freer in myself and a lot happier! I don’t think I could go back for all the tea in China…
I get it, but others don’t.
” Just because you correctly identify a pattern in someone’s behavior, this does not mean they are going to change it to meet a standard that you set. ”
Yes. I agree with this, also what PD wrote. Saying that, sometimes the very identification of another person’s pattern feels controlling to me.
This is definitely a projection on my part (I get really irritated by people who want to tell me, unsolicited, what my patterns are). Some of my family members are like this. I just find it very intrusive.
Go ahead and analyze me all you want–just don’t TELL me about it like you’re some sage old ‘soul-master’ who is going to show me the error of my ways.
I definitely spot patterns but by and large I keep quiet about them because as I value my own privacy, I want to display that I value others’ right to privacy.
Moon rules my 8th House. Saturn in 8th in a yod with Jupiter/6th and Cap Moon in 1st.
I think psychological inquiry requires a lot of privacy.
Yes, and that’s why when you see someone’s colors and it doesn’t go well with yours…you gotta go.
Usually it’s good to stop wasting time, and I can accept it, but it makes me sad once in a while when someone I once loved is setting a low standard for themselves or justifying being stuck in a pattern though visibly unsatisfied.
great post Elsa! So well said!!
I’m also upset by this type of (what I feel is) intrusion because in my mind, there is just no telling that the person you are analyzing isn’t aware of their own pattern already.
What if they’ve already identified it and are working on it, unbeknownst to you? What if they’ve identified it and are at a loss of knowing how to identify it, and you come along and tell them all about this pattern, and they end up feeling worse rather than better.
Gee, thanks for pointing out I ‘have a problem with authority figures.’ That was…what was that?
I mean really, it’s like pointing out someone has a pimple. No shit sherlock, I DID look in the mirror this morning.
I’m very sensitive about this issue (obviously).
@Kashmiri – You experience it as intrusion but it’s on full view for the other person. It’s an observation, not pointing out errors. Like, hey, that’s a nice pink shirt you’re wearing. Same thing.
@Kashmiri
Right, like maybe I know I need to lose weight? That is one that always makes me chuckle when I read it in advice columns.
Yes, tell an overweight person that they are overweight and it concerns you, because they have no idea what size they are wearing. DUH
OTOH, some people get mad if you don’t tell them something that bothers you because they might really want to correct it.
But usually you can tell what’s a personality flaw/quirk and what is inconsistent with the rest and something they might want to know.
Starkttn I agree with you that it’s highly personal to me–that’s why I mentioned in my first comment that I’m aware that it’s a projection on my part.
I have Uranus/MC opposing Sun and Chiron/IC tied up with my 8th House and I have a unique definition of privacy:)
“But usually you can tell what’s a personality flaw/quirk and what is inconsistent with the rest and something they might want to know.”
PixieDust your Scorpio is showing! 😀
LOL 😀
Kashmiri – well I hope you know I just wanted you to know the other side, that sometimes there isn’t ill intent but just a heads up in case it’s new. But it’s good to let the other person know about your privacy needs because someone clueless like me might accidentally intrude without knowing when it’s the last thing I want. 🙂
Really good advice!
Starkttn, for what it’s worth I think most people do not have ill intent. I think my ability to forgive best explains my ability to see the other side. I agree with what you wrote but didn’t include it because even though I see the other side, I won’t be joining it, LOL. Personality differences between those who verbalize what they see and those who don’t, I’m guessing. We all have different charts, right? Different Mercuries.
I try (to let people know). The best I can do at this stage in my life is not be angry if someone intrudes. Maybe one day I’ll feel comfortable telling people when they hurt me. It’s not really my forte, though.
With Chiron conjunct the IC at the bottom of my chart trine Capricorn Moon, I’m not likely to display where my wounds are. It’s a funny Chiron placement.
I don’t mind being examined (hence me tendency to have relationships with Scorpio people), it’s the verbalizing analysis of people who like to tell me who I am, that jar me. I just like to leave people to it.
What I mean by ‘didn’t include it’ was I didn’t include it in my feelings initially expressed in my first comment.
@Kash – Well of course you are you, definitely keep your position. I meant sort of a disclaimer on first meeting…so as to be careful around you now because I don’t want people to feel intruded if they are very private. Okay. Good to know for my big mouth.
Starkttn that is really kind of you. However. I have too much Uranus in my chart to issue disclaimers, LOL.
I’m really not that hard to get along with. My mouth can be plenty big too–Saggie ASC!
i don’t think he’s really, really understood yet, that i don’t _want_ to run his life.
you can get used to certain dynamics, in relationships.
relationship patterns, that is. or mommy issues. or whatever, really. people often grow to expect certain interactions.
i mean, that’s why he married me. (because i don’t want to run his life.) but he still doesn’t really believe it yet, i think. not if i dig deep enough.