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Pluto: Bullying and Intimidation

Libra Noir
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Often, I will read about Sun conjunct Pluto as someone who intimidating and oppressive to others. But my experience has been the opposite. I have been periodically bullied and intimidated my whole life by other individuals, either overtly or covertly. It’s usually coupled with gaslighting when I’ve called it out. 

It’s happened to me twice in the last week. It happened to me growing up in my home, at school, in relationships, even here on this forum (many years ago, and I doubt anyone noticed), not so much at work thankfully.

I do think that there’s a lesson or some kind of healing that can come from this. In many ways, it’s helped me trust my own perception of things, and I’ve developed some type of inner strength because of it. I’ve also read something about Sun conjunct Pluto about us working on becoming fearless, and I do agree with that. Because the threats made can only work if I’m afraid, so it’s forced me to examine those as they are often a sensitivity or weakness that can be exploited by these acts and Pluto also gives a strong will to survive. There’s also I think a deep fear of one’s own power that has to be reckoned with. 

Obviously Pluto transits can bring this about too and synastry. This aspect is at the top of my chart. I think the Sun there also acts as a kind of beacon for these types of energies. 

What do you all think? 

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sophiab
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A lot of the themes you mention here came up recently in my mind due to watching some videos on Gen X, comparing them to other gens. If you condider the heartlands of Gen X to have Pluto and Uranus in Libra, these themes dominate that group and especially issues with gaslighting, which is a mental boundary issue and an identity issue. The way gen x developed due to the prevalent socio-economic stage seems to have amplified these themes around emotional development/early relating, identity issues, self sufficiency, resilience, lack of trust, boundaries, and especially boundary violations, power abuse. I can see what was in the videos in what you write, and recently I've been reflecting on my own experience of endless gaslighting to the point I'm only now starting to work out who I really am. It was pretty much all gaslighting and gaslighting myself as a result, and even now I have to catch myself. I mean, these issues, esp. gaslighting, effect everyone, but with that segment of gen x they are very striking due to the outer planet emphasis on Libra, 7th house, Venus. And as you are a Sun-Pluto in Libra, and at the top of the chart in broad daylight, you are even more in the spotlight for these themes. I very much related to your description, the internal experiences of which are very hard to articulate, and you did so very clearly. I have Pluto in 1st h and Uranus in 2nd (placidus), Libra of course.

I can't recall if you are dealing with Uranus in Libra too or whether you have it in Scorpio? Wherever Uranus is it kind of makes the energy of that sign ULTRA. 

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Libra Noir
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@sophiab Thank you for this. I have Uranus in Scorpio in the 11th. 

It is interesting that you bring up Gen x. I was born in 1980, which many consider the last year of that generation. I’ve been watching a lot of things like you mentioned and I appreciate a lot of it; it’s cathartic and validating. I think some younger generations take it for granted that they have a voice, but they have a voice because gen x started to talk about things. Just like anyone who points out something that’s wrong, that’s usually who gets punished. It’s easily internalized if done young enough. And the burden is hard to see- these subtle sociological themes that are trying to the spirit, so hard to speak about. 

You speak of gaslighting yourself and that is DEFINITELY something I’ve done too, but I can really only do that for so long. I think the truth that wants to be heard is a louder voice for me. It’s most important that I hear it though. 

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Elsa
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It's been awhile but I've written before about children who are at risk of abuse - sexual abuse, specifically. They are magnetic and the abuser want to own and/or disempower them, or feed or something.

I think this is what you are experiencing. If you be Sun Pluto, you won't meet it.   Be an eagle and make sure everyone knows it (for your own protection).

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Libra Noir
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@elsa I guess I’m not there yet.

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sophiab
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@elsa I was thinking about the sense of conflict of being Sun Pluto in Libra because of the need to get along, be liked, there is always a worry about loss of relationship in doing so (which would feel like loss of self it feels so core), to the point that a person habitually sacrifices the self/power/integrity. Knowing you need to do it (be in your power) , but then worrying or feeling guilty or destructive and then the whole difficult passage if you continue of bearing not being liked, feeling the fall out, disapproval, alienation, whatever, but probably getting respect in the end if you can get through it. Libra themes in general but with Sun Pluto it would be intense and archetypal.

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Elsa
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@sophiab  it's powerful  energy.  I think you use it or see it used against you. She doesn't like what is happening.  I think this is the answer but understand I could be wrong.

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sophiab
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@elsa I think in a nutshell you are right.

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Libra Noir
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@sophiab I think that’s a part of it. But also Libra rules Justice. I think our integrity is more tied up with that concept than the smaller concepts of being liked (Libra being the first “abstract” sign and probably the most objective). I Balance. 

I think Pluto probably brings the hardest and most subtle aspects of wrongdoing and balancing that with another action. What rights a wrong when Pluto (intimidation and bullying) is involved? A gross mind would say an eye for an eye, but true justice is a much more fine matter. It can be grueling to weigh, and it probably should be. Being reckless and ruthless with the reckless and ruthless seems like a total loss where everyone suffers. Maybe Pluto offers a glimpse of offenses that can’t be gracefully handled and are just inherently ugly. The things that seem to balance bullying and intimidation to me, have always made me feel ugly, not powerful at all. 

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sophiab
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@libra-noir I'm feeling what you are writing very deeply. In your experience, if you bear or tolerate the ugliness, find a way to pass through the discomfort of it, what is on the other side?

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Libra Noir
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@sophiab That’s a great question to contemplate, thank you! Well, Im on the other side at the moment, having just confronted a bully today, and another one a few days ago. I feel some relief, but not like I’ve “won”. I know these people are just going to continue to do it to someone else, so… no justice. I have my temple here, which is my life, which I have to sanctify again. That is sometimes a quick process and sometimes a slow one, but always feels good to me. I’m realizing as I’m writing this, that the whole thing is a type of forging/purification/alchemical process. It feels like training. Elsa mentioned the Eagle. I don’t think that happens overnight or by willpower. Or maybe it is and I’m just making things harder for myself lol. Thanks again, this really made me expand my awareness- a gift.

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sophiab
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@libra-noir I'm thinking that the emphasis on Aries currently can be helpful here, including the full moon on Friday. Because, as you write, there is a feeling of lack of comfort due to a lack of justice, but this feeling is on the basis of concern for the other (Libra). And I think it could be, and with the Aries support, about practicing for this to be just about you, because there is always an other, and another other and another, as you say, with Libra this concern can lead into abstraction and philosophy, and yet at that stage it can become overwhelming - how much responsibility is really yours? This is a big theme for me which is punctuating the last few years, about responsibility, and how through lack of boundaries, other's responsibility can get deposited and heaped on you, and then become a way of life...but with Aries energy, it can be steadily drawn back to something more manageable, what am I really responsible for.

It's great we're riffing on Libra/Aries because as you say these things exist in subtle layers that take a long time to unpick.

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LisLioness
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My daughter, now 21, experienced both. Sun conjunct Pluto in Sag. Things have turned around for her in recent years, but she still runs into those who can't grasp her essence.

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Libra Noir
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@lislioness That’s good. I go through good periods too and then there’s like some trial periods where I will meet a string of them.

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sophiab
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@libra-noir I've been re-encountering some really old issues recently. I think Pluto by transit is really strong right now and causing it. The equinox for me has brought back stuff I thought I'd dealt with, but I think it's because I'm clearing it. You can't clear it without experiencing it. But yes, I'm surprised.. this again!

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I've experienced it, Pluto sqaure mars in the 11th and opp moon.

It has given me strength and allowed me to stop trusting people too much 

 

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