There was a great discussion on the post, Losing A Friend Because Your Opinion Is Not Theirs.
Medbh wrote about insiders and outsiders. I’m glad she did. It made me realize I will always be an outsider. It’s just not possible for me to get on the inside of any group, given my background, my current profession, my history in various regards or whatever the reason might be.
I have Uranus in the 7th house. I tend to project my Uranian qualities. It’s not that often a light comes on that allows me to see this.
In 2006, someone told me I was attracted to iconoclastic men! That’s usually how I am tipped to thing like this. Some one has to tell me. But occasionally the veil does lift.
I once married a man who lived in a shack. He lived in a shack, because he had a $50,000 stereo (this was the cost 20 years ago). He bought his couch by “ear height”. That was how important sound was to him (Aquarius Moon). He lived in the wilderness, because he did not want neighbors to bother him when he turned up the volume. I thought he was an eccentric.
Many years passed before I realized I was pretty “off” myself, seeing as I married, “Shack Man”. That’s what I called him. I used to sing it, to the tune of Batman.
Da, da, da, da, da da, da da…da, da, da, da, da, da, da – Shack Man!
I sung that, because I am normal, of course.
The other night, my husband (a retired Green beret) was explaining the nuance in his relationships with some of his peers, back in the day. It hit me, just how isolated he is. Thanks to Medbh, I made the connection between the two of us right away.
There are also going to be people who want to dialog with an outsider. It’s the reason I am in business. People don’t want to know what everyone says – they want to know what I say. They want the outsider opinion, basically. I think this smart. It’s I would do, anyway. Skip the chorus, go for the oddball.
Are you a true outsider? How do you feel about it?
pictured – that’s me, getting married to a man who lives in a Shack. 7th house Uranus in motion, lol.
Venus Neptune in bliss…headed for the cliff, but who cares ’bout that?
My dress is blue, not black.
Capricorn.
“The shaman lives on the edge of town”, say the Hopi. People don’t want him too close. He doesn’t want their kooties either. But when they want the deep mystery to intervene, the shaman is the messenger- in both directions. (G) Aho!
That makes sense, Terrie.
Sometimes I go to people to find out what “normal people” think…because this is something they can access. They can go between me and them, basically.
But usually I contact people to find out what they, as an individual think, because they think independently, and will be candid of course.
I’m an outsider. I generally prefer it. When I was young I saw the “group” and didn’t want to blend in which was fine since everyone saw me as weird. I can mere with the group, and do popular things, but at my core I’m an outlier and I get uncomfortable when I have to commit to belonging anywhere. Yet, I’m a cancer so I need a home and my people.
It’s not funny to be an insider, it’s better out of the system.
I used to be pretty sad because I never quite fit in,no matter how hard I tried, but during these years, I realized it is because I’m just awesome. What can I do 🙂
I’m thinking about the Sex Pistols and their cover of My Way 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y252h-7W7AU (not the best quality but I always loved this) 🙂
I’ve been an outsider for as long as I can remember, but I think that’s oftentimes the case with Scorpios; we either strongly attract people or strongly repel them and we also see through phoniness and the superficial, so being on the ‘inside’ so to speak doesn’t generally appeal to us. I’m kind of weird though because of my Leo moon, even though I could see through the bullsh*t as far as the “in-crowd” was concerned, there was still a despised part of me that longed to be included in that group throughout my adolescent years. Capricorn rising of course would never allow me to get caught up in that sort of thing; I was way too aware of the consequences. Now I look at some of the “popular” people that I secretly admired and many of them have gone nowhere since graduation. There was one girl in particular that I looked up on FB recently and she’s twenty-eight and still lives with her parents, all of her pictures are of her going out to party and drink her life away — she hasn’t evolved. Some of the boys I once considered handsome have not aged well and are sporting the evidence of their excessive drinking in the spare tire wrapped around their midsections so maybe being accepted isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. In my adult life I don’t regret being an outsider and to this day I am very selective about who I associate with. Quality over quantity is the way I see it.
YOUR SO PRETTY IN PICTURE! AND YOU LOOK SO HAPPY!…I MARRIED MY HUSBAND AS WE ARE BOTH A BIT ECCENTRIC..BUT YEARS LATER, AFTER HAVING CHILDREN i REMEMBER SAYING TO HIM.”.WHY CANT WE BE A NORMAL FAMILY!”….
That’s interesting, WATERGAL. My husband tells me that we *are* a normal family. 🙂
I see him point.
Thanks on the compliment. It was a weird time in my life. I had that stellium in Capricorn (early 90’s) conjunct my ascendent.
I have Uranus in the 7th house as well – strange encounters indeed. Uranus forms a t-square between my Venus and Neptune. Must meditate on how best to utilize the new moon in Aquarius this week as it activates that t-square. Looking for a sextile or trine to any planet at this time!
i’m a uranian outsider a few times over & generally partner with my kind. How I feel about it depends on the situation & whether or not I end up feeling like a victim or scapegoat in some way. When a family circles the wagons & tosses out one member, that person is challenged to survive or they belong to the universe alone. All kinds of stuff is outside the circle, some easier to punk out or fashion favorably.
For me, a good day is when I’m just unpredictably challenging enough- the sweet spot where I’m true to myself but can still grocery shop… and I’ve got my weird friend with me.
& yep, Im a Libra 🙂
nice post.
Thank you, dogstar. 🙂
I empathise. It is so Uranian to be the outsider. Uranian asc, and Moon Nep in Libra on the 4th, one learns to be silent and stay on the perimeter We see what is, but the mockery from claque, isn’t worth the aggro. Not even my family can I relate to. But I have chosen my bed and my heartache (and insults from all and sundry for being “distant”, “snobbish” … whatever…) make no difference. We hear a different drummer. Just as a throwaway comment, I find Uranians very self sufficient, not in a selfish way, but for the sake of their sanity. And we don’t allow others to use us. It is a hard path to walk but we do it in quiet dignity with a vision others can only aspire to.
With pluto opposing natal moon, I don’t find the ‘normal people’ very normal at all. Scary!!!! 😀
I had a band and created my own “in crowd” around me,I knew I would never fit in with normal. I’m having another go now it’s liberating, and a kind of rebel against my few close girlfriends that became mother in crowders. I still have to work 9-5 tho so do feel like Mr Incredible, squeezed into his desk chair and tiny car!
What a lovely picture! 🙂
I suppose I’m an outsider, with Uranus squaring my chart ruler and an Aquarian SN. Detaching, Uranian-style, is one of my major coping mechanisms. I think if you embrace it, it can be a very valuable perspective.
what’s new is that I’m learning to accept being an outsider and live with it,not necessarily under resignation..too much fire!
recently I’ve been given further confirmations on this,new acquaintances telling me I’m so intense, I read people down to the very bone and scare them away, even unwillingly.of course,sometimes I unconsciously want to..
with chiron conj sun and north node in aries, the whole matter of “who I am” is in progress, add uranus conj. jupiter in 11th and on south node.I think mercury makes a big difference.I grew up in sense of isolation, knowing I could learn tomorrow’s lesson without opening the book,play the piano by heart or learn a foreign language in a few hours, and be totally unable to get a schoolmate’s affection.the talented kid who dreams of being loved because of her gifts.I used to say things too early, too truly, to bluntly, and so the outcast role got reinforced.pisces mercury in water grand trine,psychic perception of other, mercury opp.jupiter/uranus/pluto .and moon-venus-saturn to show deep wounds.no timing at all, or bad timing.so many broken bonds behind me,I don’t expect a relationship to last anymore.my sweeping emotions and neurological short circuit used to make me faint, I’m still prone to it.the sense of being the weird one is in my bones.
Trying to cope with normality has stifled my real nature so long.I was not blessed with trust(cancer moon sq.saturn-venus on desc),I’m building it now…
from a family history of misery,I ended up in a working place where people talked of the new sailing boat one of them had just bought and anchored in Capri…and judges,prosecutors,magistrates and attorneys all around.the law, saturn, the rules.
so I have no choice but to play the outsider the best I can, and make room for people willing to create a relationship with the real me, once for all putting aside labels.life brought me into a working environment which couldn’t be more distant from my true needs, yet I can fulfill my job remaining myself (sun and venus in 6th).
I express myself singing(mercury conj chiron and eros),writing and exploring creativity
I am most definitely an outsider. There is always at least ONE reason why I don’t fit into ANY group, no matter what type of group that is. Recently a Facebook group I helped found threw me out after having a discussion without any input from me. Fortunately I’m old enough to not care if I fit in anymore.
Oh gee, your story about FB made me laugh! Kinda the opposite of that old chestnut (most recently) attributed to Groucho Marx: ‘Please accept my resignation. I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member’.
Wow Elsa look at you!! So happy & pretty… a Venus Neptune pin up 😉
@notch… that’s it! There’s nothing normal about what people call normal.
I get around. I like diversity. What’s normal seems to be situational according to the group I am visiting.
Been thinking about friends (maybe cuz new moon in aquarius, or mars in my 11th). My friends are the people who are comfortable enough with their individuality that they can accept mine. Kind of a cool thing these friends. They don’t need to conform me to anything and vica versa.
I have 3 planets in the 11th house, which should equal success in groups/associations. Shouldn’t it. Yet I’ve lost count of how many jobs I’ve had. Saturn opposite Mars & Venus, and 3 degrees from Neptune, in the 6th. This struggle is the most burdensome of this lifetime.
Interesting on the Outsider and Insider, I was blindsided into a Bible-Study yesterday with that as a topic, I have always felt to be the Outsider only now I am trying to accept that, acceptance is good.
I have always been an outsider.
I have a tape of me recorded by my parents when I was two years old – it is 30 minutes of crying “I want to leave this place and go to the ‘great big white world’, just let me go, I won’t take anything with me, just my Silly Doll”. I don’t know if you can get the meaning of ‘great big white world’ in English, it is a perfectly legitimate phrase in Serbian (I am Serbian, on an American astrology forum, lol).
In my natal chart:
Uranus exactly on IC
Uranus square Asc/Desc
Uranus trine Moon (orb 0 )
Uranus opposite Mercury (rules my Asc)
Uranus sextile Mars
Great post. This made me think. I definitely was an outsider, growing up. I’m also a Libra Sun, so it did hurt A LOT at the time. Later on, I learned to adapt, but then realized it wasn’t worth it, most of times. I just felt being a part of a group also meant giving up some of my personal power, not something a Sun/Pluto in 2nd house is comfortable doing. So, even if I can get into groups, I often still remain somewhat emotionally uninvolved.
Your post got me to thinking……I have always done “my” thing. I have never wanted a “group” of people telling me where to be or how to think or act for my entire life. I guess I was an outsider and didn’t know it. I have always been accepted where I decided to participate but it was always because it was my choice to be there. My working life has been to treat everyone the same no matter what rung on the ladder my friends/clients felt they resided. I have never felt like I had to alter my life to accommodate any group of people and never would. Libra Sun……Capricorn Rising……Virgo Moon. Guess my moon makes me picky about where and with whom I spend any quality time. I have a lot of great friends/clients and a very good relationship with all of them. Being an outsider works for me!
I always appreciate the outsider’s opinion 🙂 I’m an outsider too. I don’t fit in anywhere, in any group. Not even here…. 11th house Sun squared by Uranus. Moon opposite Uranus. I’m thankful to have found a best friend and partner in crime (in a multiple Aquarius man, no less) with whom I can share a wavelength. It’s hard to find people on this wavelength of mine apparently. It can get lonely otherwise.
I would like to fit in. I don’t like being the perennial weirdo.
But I realize it’s probably one of those “be careful what you ask for” sort of things.
I am working on developing an improved attitude towards the situation. I am really striving.
I think that’s alot of it. The attitude toward the situation. What am I there for. Is there a place here for me to contribute. I often am asked to go here or there to help with this or that, only to find out it’s all being taken care of. But it’s okay. I just disappear from there. And then of course, there are situations that are so tightly guarded where I can’t function. No opening. It’s all in assessing the situation and accepting that’s what it is. And of course, my new tack of just exactly what I am willing to take on. Limits limits limits.
” It’s the reason I am in business. People don’t want to know what everyone says – they want to know what I say. They want the outsider opinion, basically. ”
From one “uranian” in 7th to another, that’s why I’m very grateful you’re in business. 🙂
Thank you, Marta.
I think that’s how most of my clients feel. They know who they are calling and why. 🙂
You described me to a T. When I was growing up, I so badly wanted to be an insider. Being an outsider in middle school was hell on earth. I read, I studied, I observed to try and learn how to be “normal.” But I was still no more “normal” than donkeys flying. In college, I met people who were much more open to outsiders. And so I began a long process of recognizing that I was pretty cool, just as I am. I now have lots of people in my life who value my unique characteristics. But it still is tough to date :-).
Seconding what others have said, such a great, joyful picture of you, Elsa.
Thanks! 🙂
Well, thanks, Elsa! You are very kind.
This is something I’ve given a great deal of thought to, all my life really, I have to the conclusion that genuine bred-in-the-bone “insiders” or “outsiders” are actually both a pretty rare commodity. Most people, when you get down to it, will tell they don’t feel they “fit in” as well as their neighbours/family/friends/colleagues seem to do and that they are always checking out their act, to see if it’s working 🙂 That’s just basic social anxiety that we all suffer from to a greater or less extent.
Your genuine “outsider” can be found at the heart of a group, or directing a group, particularly if that group has a mission of some hind, so it doesn’t mean they are in introvert or a recluse. But here’s the thing: they will never, ever internalise the values of any group, even one they have created or contributed to themselves. They do hear the sound of a different drummer. This is neither a good thing nor a bad thing in itself. Some of those drum-beats might not be ones the rest of us should follow anyway 🙂 Sometimes, we need to hear the sound of distant drumming, even if we’ll never catch up with it ourselves.
Same goes for the real insider, but in reverse. They have thoroughly absorbed the values of the group and hey, that might be a good thing as much as a bad thing. Sometimes they can behave heroically in defence of their community. They can do that just as much as they can seem to maintain stifling group norms. It all depends on what’s going down at the time.
Spoken by Uranus cj Pluto in the 8th opposite Saturn in the 2nd 🙂
Thanks for posting, Medbh. I’ve never really heard anyone articulate on this topic the way you can.
I appear like an insider sometimes and most of the time I can talk to at least someone in any group. But I find people interesting, I ask questions and I listen. It’s once I start to talk and we try to connect that I realize I don’t really fit in. In my new town in my new job, I have made a concerted effort to watch everyone and not jump into any group. I teach middle school so you can imagine the cliques. So who do I talk to? My outsider theatre teens and I am pretty happy that way. They are pretty funny and wiser than they realize. I get lonely for adult companionship sometimes, but as I get some distance from my recent split from my husband, I realize I was pretty lonely in my marriage anyway. He preferred me to fit in and boy did I try. However, I am now far to old to keep up the pretense of fitting in. Kind of like Samantha in Bewitched trying to be a “normal” suburban housewife…I’m thinking by the time she was 50 and Tabitha was headed off to college she would have quit hiding her twitchy nose, right?
I am going to a meeting tonight, where I will try so hard to fit in.
It’s sad in a way, but necessary. It’s appropriate, rather. That’s probably closer to the truth.
I think in part, this is a Jupiter Uranus aspect in my chart.
I am so envious of this woman I know of, with her purple or red glasses and kooky but appropriate clothes and her big smile. She can really carry herself.
She’s like a real Aquarian, as opposed to me, a crazified Capricorn.
It’s like a I missed the boat she sailed on – dang!
You don’t know what she thinks about you! She might be saying to herself “I wish I had Elsa’s drive or natural authority or even her sense of humour” 🙂 or she might just think “Hey: it’s that girl again!”
I’ve long since ceased being surprised at what people notice about other people, and it’s usually something to do with themselves, rather than the other person. We notice what we lack or what we are afraid of or what in the past has turned out to be good/bad for ourselves – but it’s very rare for people to actually focus on another person as another “fragment of life”, in and of themselves, and not something that can potentially help/harm ourselves.
And I’m not knocking it – we’re social animals. We have to think that way in order to survive. “Who’s a threat here? Who’s a net-benefit? – To me, personally, or to the group?”
It’s really only artists who don’t look at other people like that. (At least when it comes to writing about them, or painting them). And mystics, of course. And truly-loving parents.
I wouldn’t be surprised in the least, if she was thinking that.
The problem is, what I appear to be is vastly different from what I am.
I understand that and it’s well worth a post all on its own. I was once told years ago by a very old and distinguished lady that I was going to go through life being badly misunderstood by most people. Naturally, i assumed it must be something to do with my “self-presentation” and started begging for tips on how to tone myself down or express myself more clearly or whatever the heck it was. Sort of “How to win friends and influence people …”
The lady just laughed and shook her head. “It’s none of those things ” she explained. “Most people are just not going to get you. Some people are going to love you – but they still won’t get you. Some people are going to hate you – but they still won’t get you. Whatever they think you are, that’s what you’re not.”
And you know what? She was right. So I had to just accept it. No amount of “open confession” or taking people through my thinking step by step ever seemed to clear it up.. I came to the conclusion that some people are like human Rorschach blobs – you see what you want to see in them . They could be screaming from the roof-tops NO, NO, NO, it’s not THAT, it’s THIS but very few people are listening 🙂
The key for me is in letting go. I realize I have been had by my own delusion, yet again, and so what?
Things are way too slippery (around me) to think they can be nailed down, for long.
I am very grateful for any structure I can put in place, but I know it’s going to be fleeting.
Such a gorgeous photo, I love the energy of it!
I wonder if everyone feels like an outsider at heart, alone in their skins. There are many times I feel that I belong and many times I feel that I belong nowhere. Is that the human condition or is it just me?
Ultimately I have to befriend my weirdness, not apologize, accept that it is my superpower and learn to make it work magic for me.
Thanks, Lynn.
I tend to feel like I am normal, and then find out otherwise.
It really doesn’t matter how hard I try. Eventually the veil lifts and I get a (horrifying) glimpse. 🙂
I’m never quite sure where I am. I think I’m way outside, then something happens and I pass for a while and then it’s like I remember that I’m rocking a plum ponytail.
*snort*
I blame the Neptune, it’s on my moon and opposite my ascendant/sun.
😀
Im with the commenter who said that at the end of the day, we are all outsiders. I think that at least to a degree, people who seem ‘normal’ or ‘an insider’ have sold their souls to be there, so therefore, they & we have the illusion that they are insiders.
same feelings..I see it shown in my moon sq.asc, mercury conj.asc.and strong chiron operating, plus intense mental energy I seem to send out.what you all write made me think of another “skill” I developed since a child.the most controlled person in a group tends to lose his/her temper in my presence, even by phone.looks like I trigger shadow sides in people, they’re not willing to face.I’m taking this back to use it for my benefit=heal my troubled sides, and relinquishing the illusion that I’ll be perceived as lovable. lots of projection are involved, still the fact is that I just don’t belong and it stifles my libra rising and cancer moon.
with me it’s still different.they clearly perceive a strong sexual energy but keep far from me.an outsider to the whole dating matter!
I could still be projecting rejection issues from childhood,after 20 years working on myself..:((
This has been some very interesting reading. I’ve always been outside the “main” group in school and in the workplace (except for 2 really great jobs when I was younger). I am able to fit in to smaller groups who share similar interests.
and Elsa…I Love that picture of you. So radiant:)
That picture is incredible.
I have always been an outsider, although I desperately want to be part of the Group!
I lend this to Neptune sitting on my Ascendant. A friend of mine told me years later… you were sort of inaccessible, like in another world.
I also want to go deep in relationships so it makes it hard for me to relate just on the surface. I relate this to my Pluto-Moon opposition. My partner is a Scorpio Moon and I don’t think any other moon understands me as well.
I also have Venus-Uranus trine exact in my chart with Venus in the 7th, I like out-of-the ordinary relationships and going out of my “circle” to meet people from other horizons, and of course… astrology.