Dear Elsa,
With the groundbreaking elections we have had and so much attention that has been shined on racism, sexism, and ageism… It got me thinking about my own patterns and the prejudices I’ve faced and those I’ve directed at others.
I remember taking a globalization class in grad school and gender discrimination came up as a topic of discussion. The women in the class were sharing their experiences, primarily their experiences of being held back by men in the corporate world. While the men in the class sat glum and humbled.
I was the only female in the class who raised her hand and rather bluntly and angrily told every female in the room to get a F#$@%ing grip and stop blaming “men” for their inward sense of inferiority.
Personally, I have never been professionally held back by men, but I have been sabotaged MANY TIMES over by women as I was climbing up the corporate ladder, due to hidden jealousy. Quite the opposite, men have provided valuable counsel and mentorship to me. And although I’m an attractive female, the rapport I’ve shared with men professionally has never crossed into inappropriate sexual territory. Perhaps, because I make it very clear to men my moral thresholds.
I have a great job and I’ve also been interviewing with a well known gov. agency. The vetting process is rigorous (and I been through the process of committee style interviews before, so I know what to expect.I’m close to my last round. Here’s my
problem, my interviews with senior level male officials went well, however, my last interview with an obese and rude female left me baffled. In our interview she give me an entire lecture on sexual conduct in the work place, which I have NEVER received during a professional interview in my life. She ended up dismissing my resume as insignificant and I was turned into a sex object, a
tart, a brazen hussy (who in her mind has only made it this far based on looks). This is a lecture she would never have given an attractive male candidate!
I have vowed never to make professional or personal associations with women anymore on a intimate level and to keep my distance from women.My male friends tell me women are catty towards women who are driven, attractive and successful…
I don’t know if this is the norm, or do I emote certain masculine energies that women find threatening? How much of what we emote is environment versus genetic/astrological composition?
Deep down I don’t want to hate women, but it’s increasing more difficult the higher I climb professionally…
Job Seeker
USSR
Dear Job, this is an extremely interesting (and provocative) question and I will be happy to give you my hit on this. I think you are extremely pissed off and I can’t say I blame you. The issues you present are real but on a deeper level, I think your letter is cry for help so I am going to try to offer some and leave others to dialogue on the 100 other angles you’ve offered here.
First, I’ll tell you how I got on to you… it was the astrology. You do not have the chart of a ball-busting bitch. You do have the chart of a blunt, smart hothead which I think we can all see here in action but you’ve got a sweet, compassionate side as well which was shown by the PS you tacked onto this.
Basically you could boil this down to a talented, trying-hard woman in tears asking, why do they hate me so much? And you are smart enough to ask, see the course you’re on and want to change it. I commend you for that but would add it is in YOUR best interest. Because if you do not change this you are going to be on the outs with (more than) half the people on this planet and I have seen it.
For example, there is a gal in my gym… she’s very attractive. The men like her, they flock to her of course but the women do not. I have seen her for years and she used to try to talk to women but she no longer bothers. Basically she just gave up and I would say the whole gym knows it. “Her! That one right there is the one we all shun…”
And I have personally tried to talk to her a few times but guess what? She is so sure I am up to something… going to hurt her, feel jealous of her or whatever else along those lines she’s just completely inhibited and unless she does something to liberate herself from these notions (prejudices) I would say her fate is sealed. She will never have a woman friend.
Now she has probably had many reasons to draw these conclusions and become defensive but it’s not smart. Dig your heels in like that and it is YOU who is stuck while the rest of us move around freely. So here’s my advice:
Realize a lot people are going to cop an attitude toward you but lose victim shirt about it. Because they cop an attitude about me too and so what? Should I expect everyone I meet to cop this same negative attitude? If I do, it will eventually become a self-fulfilling thing so instead I take my grandfather Henry’s advice.
Henry said most people are good and you should assume to be treated well and right by everyone you meet. Most times this is exactly what you get and if the person does prove themselves “disagreeable” (his word), then you can cut the tie. If you adopt this policy, it means the next time you head into an interview with a woman, you assume she is going to be completely friendly and supportive and I am telling you, you’ll increase your odds of this happening astronomically. And if you don’t?
Well eventually you are going to be like that gal in the gym and it’s got to suck not getting along with 1/2 the population. I mean, come on.
One more thing:
When you do run into someone like this last gal who interviewed you, why not just shrug? I realize you had or have a lot invested in getting the job but hey! If the universe throws a block up in the form of this gal, then that’s what happened. If you decide to hate all women because of it, whose problem is that? Here’s another option:
“Jeez, what a crazy. Holy cow!” ::shakes head:: “I am going to have to get a different job, that’s for sure but at least I’ve got a good story…”
That’s what I would do if I ran into her so who would you like to work with / be around hmmm?
Don’t let bitter, crazy people make you bitter and crazy, less you be a fool. And watch the victim thing too because virtually everyone gets an attitude copped about them, think about it.
In one light that woman in the interview was your oppressor but in another she taught you exactly how not to be.
Good luck.
Anyone else?
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Elsa, Is there anything in the 10th house of Job’s chart?
??? I don’t have the job’s chart. Not sure what you mean.
There are some aspects that point up to around 0° virgo in the 10th opposing her Pisces Moon in her 4th, but there is not a planet or symbol there. You have the classics plus Chiron, I was just wondering if its an asteroid or a Part of something.
I second Elsa’s excellent take on things – again. I’d like to add that sometimes the thing that can ease the frustration is to think of how painful her life must be. Her taking it out on you has nothing to do with you and is more a reflection of her and who SHE chooses to be.
For the record I’ve been sabatoged by men – more than once. I took a position that a 50 year old man had applied for internally and I got the position (I got it based upon qualifications and experience of which he would have had a huge learning curve as it would have been sort of a “transfer” between departments).
There are people in pain everywhere – it has nothing to do with you – only whether or not you will choose to be another one of those people in pain oozing it out to everyone you meet.
Oh shit! Beats me. I will have to poke ’round the software…
It;s the MC!! Er, duh. Just changed the options..
I wondered how you were going to respond to this letter, elsa, interesting.
I have not looked at the chart much, but my first response just ties into my long history of undergoing the “committee interview” (I was a college professor at 4 different universities and for each of those four jobs, there was at least one two day interview [that is if i only interviewed at one place])… and usually about 3 multi-day-committe type interviews. These committee interviews are challenging, that much I can agree with.
Interesting chart, I guess what jumps out is the Scorpio rising with mars conjunct Mercury (1 degree orb) very close to the DC (others, the other) in heel-digging-in Taurus (Taurus = female energy).
I’ve had problems with specific women in the work place, but I have also had problems with specific men in the work place. And vice versa, I have had fantastic and supportive mentors of both genders in the professional work place. This is an interesting topic and thanks for sharing the chart.
The one area I’d really like to comment on is the interview. When I have gone through two day interviews, yes, you are interviewing back to back, hour by hour, each time you get a different person, and a different personality in the interviewer.
Some of the people you run into are going to be egotistical and not interested in you (they know they are just one wheel in an interview cog) , others might seem to care and ask great questions, others will only ask questions about their pet cause, some of these people will be come across as completely insane (e.g., some of those professors who got their tenure and now they don’t even try to hide how nuts they are), some will not even ask you, the interviewee a single question, they will just go on a tangent. etc. etc. etc. It has to do with interviewing with so many different people in such a short time.
I always went into it this way. I want this job, therefore, it is my job to do whatever I have to do to get through this .. over-interview… or whatever. It was my job, in this interview, to let them just sit there and do whatever they need to do during their hour. If they need me to talk and respond, fine, but if they are a ranting kind of person, fine, that gives me time to rest up for the next one, the one where he or she, the interviewer will have a lot of difficult and challenging questions that make me think and finesse and say the things that need to be said to get the job.
I remember spending an entire hour in one professors office without understanding one single one of the points this person was making. It was so far over my head like, in outer space over my head, I guess the person was that brilliant (or crazy, who knows), and so….I just sat there and nodded and smiled when it seemed appropriate to nod or smile, and I tried to keep my ears open so that if a question did come out I could make some kind of attempt at somekind of answer that made some kind of sense.
But I would like to say this to you, job seeker. Maybe something is possible that you don’t think is possible. Maybe it is not about gender and you personally. Maybe it is not about jealousy or certainly not always about jealousy. Maybe there is no gender conspiracy here against you at all by your own gender.
Take your example, paragraph2:
“I raised my hand and rather bluntly told every female in the room to get a fucking grip and stop blaming “men” for their inward sense of inferiority.”
pow! pow! pow!
Hey, not every chick out there hates women, all women, feels like they are in competition with women, etc. Even if you are the hottest chick ever, for some of us, it just doesn’t matter. (Okay, I might not hit the bars with you, but then again, I wouldn’t pick up guys in a bar, so realistically with me it doesn’t matter :).
I never get these “women are SO CATTY!” things because I am just not surrounded by them. I have one aunt who is like this (she’s the sort who hates everyone other than her husband and the favorite child/grandchildren, though), but in general I’m nice to them and they’re nice to me. If you are not taking potshots at me when I’m being nice to you, then guess what, I won’t consider you The Enemy just because you’re hot!
Okay, this is perhaps unhelpful, but I just wanted to say that not every vagina-owner is like that. I swear, nice chicks are out there.
Oh! the MC, okay. Midheaven in Virgo, (serve) and the ruler, Mercury, (talking about) opposing Pluto (power struggles).
And regarding work, with both men and women, Job may notice how much she enjoys truly helping people, and to keep this bigger picture in mind, if any “petty” stuff happens, the trick will be to remove the ego and the more she can do this, the closer she wil lbe able to keep helping people, which is what she really wants, I think.
Elsa – it was a really good analysis. I wondered about her Chiron Conjunct Venus in Taurus -.
I have had trouble out of women and trouble out of men. Usually the women who have given me problems have been extremely insecure and unsure of themselves – root cause.
I’m feeling you Jennifer! I am an attractive young lady (Scorp ASC as well, w/ Leo sun *wink wink*..hehe) and I have hoards of girlfriends. I love female friendships! And I have a bunch of beautiful gals that are gorgeous inside and out…but most importantly inside.
When I was a teenager, I remember feeling threatened/jealous by Aries sun gals (such as job seeker) because I was very insecure at the time and I envied their gusto and their ability to interact with males so effortlessly–which to this day I’m not that great at. But then I realized that I was lucky to have such a beautiful gift to get along with females so well, and when I realized that, I stopped focusing on the fact that I didn’t relate to men so much. I in turn appreciated and applauded their own special Arian (as in Aries, not skinhead..lol) gift.
I think it might help to look at it that way….instead to vowing to stay away from females, be open to it. If a woman is being jealous, feel flattered that there is something special about you that she might be lacking, but in your heart wish her well and celebrate whatever good qualities she may have. You’d be surprised how many people will warm up to you if your heart is open.
Dear Job seeker, why not raise your hand and ever so bluntly tell yourself not to blame women for your inward sense of inferiority.
Oh snap…
In the chart, I noticed the Venus/Chiron… hurt/wounded by women. I have Venus square Chiron/Moon (which are conjunct), and Lilith in Cancer. I have been hurt my women and older women (especially when I was a child/teen). Cruel/dark mother types. Elsa gave a really brilliant, compassionate, smart reply. You cannot hate half (or more) of the population because of bad experiences. As tempting as it is sometimes. And I have no doubt that you have probably had more than normal share of this experience seeing that Venus/Chiron too. I find when we repeat experiences it means there is a lesson in there somewhere we need to learn. Even if its something as ‘simple’ as… forgiveness.
Lovin’ it Jennifer…vagina owner, that’s a new one for me!
mercury almost scorpio here (that means 29:30 libra, guess what ‘I love to catch up people on discussions’)
Raised by scorpios. Job seeker, you are a scorpio rising, you simply cannot be unaware of sexual
implications, ulterior motives and double sexual messages
There is something wrong here. It is simply impossible. You say:
“And although I’m an attractive female, the rapport I’ve shared with men professionally has never crossed into inappropriate sexual territory”
A sadge rising with libra sun (like me) could say that, however I can see all the sexual energies around there, mainly in job areas. It is plenty of bitches, men or women whatever…
I suposse that jup sadge,..it coul be…it could explain the thing. However doesn’t exist now or ever … a disoriented scorpio.
crazy-moon, I understand what your saying but I have to kinda disagree. I have Scorpio rising and I remember this lady I used to work with would tell me to “dress a little less provacatively.” I wore nothing out of the ordinary, I didn’t wear low-cut shirts, short skirts, etc. I felt confused and offended until I realized that I was dead sexy without ever trying. Haha.
I dreamt about an old friend the other night.
It made me a sad, because I actually loved her, deeply and loyally. But I had to end it, as it became too much. I had to hide myself with her, I couldn’t really revel in my success in life. I was ridiculed.
I knew we were destined to end when she called a random woman a “cunt” because she had high-heels on.
But at the same time she wanted to be strong and confident, too. A real fear in embracing the feminine.
It hurt to watch, but it also hurt to walk away.
I feel like this a lot. I guess because Pluto is changing house. I had feelings like this alot when Pluto moved out of Scorpio. I ran way from home and everyone was SO, SO, SO EFFEN PISSED because I broke free. And it’s like that lately.
I’m trying really hard to move beyond “women are bitches” and “men are scum.”
So tired. So boring.
“women are bitches” and “men are scum.”
Oh my God. I could not live a day feeling like that. I mean it. I wouldn’t last a day.
Hey Shell! You are the job seeker.! Ok no problem for me. May be she was the provoked ha ha ha! Scorpions have the power. However shell, I insist there is bitches in the both sides, woman and men. Whatever flaws a woman could have, a woman never destroyed me. Still you can reconcile with a woman. (Let me to be the naive this time, I am libra, remember). The cruelty of a man can climb to levels of complete destruction of other person. Usually the woman hostility is in the area of words….
Just for the record, I don’t think it was shell who wrote the email…
I think people need to just get back in the saddle. I like Henry’s advice: check it out and when it’s done… well there you go.
I think I give everyone a fair chance. Like, too fair. But there seems to be a disconnect between myself and people who I have had to leave behind. They don’t get how to love me and be away from me. But it’s probably easier for people just to say “I hate ____”
I like the message you write about, “some people teaching us how not to be.” I remember reading about that in one of my Buddhism books. I also think that it is easier to give up and say “______are like ______” because it is the easier option as to say, admitting the deep grief you feel about being “Other.”
Or the grief of love lost…ouch.
Easier but WAY more painful and damaging in the long run. 🙁
No, crazy-moon, I’m not the job seeker. Unfortunately I don’t have enough balls to tell people to “get a fucking grip”, because I sure as hell would like to sometimes. 🙂
If you read my first comment on this post you would see that my stance on this is neutral and positive.
Just some rambling thoughts, from an accomplished professional who’s risen to a level of achievement I never thought possible when I started out 25 years ago. I empathize with JOB, but am also impatient with JOB. First, let me be clear, I sometimes FEEL like the hottest chick in the world, and have come to appreciate that this may actually be much better than BEING the hottest chick in the world.
Jealous people are out there. I know, mostly because I’ve felt my share of jealousy. When you pick the vibe up from others, it ain’t pleasant. You can grin and bear it, and keep focused on the joy you take in your work.. you can walk, which I admit is sometimes the hardest thing to do…or you can get really mad and let ’em have it and….well, I’ve done all three. I prefer method number one.
First thing that jumped out at me in the query is “rude and obese”. Would the same lecture coming from a “rude, but slim and drop dead gorgeous woman” have elicited the same response? Just wondering..
I detect a bit of the “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful” thing going on here. It’s such a waste of time!! And you know what, I’ve found that women with that attitude often attract people who hate them because they’re beautiful.
But here’s the thing. I use this phrase all the time! When I am feeling dog tired or distressed and disheveled and walk into work with a run in my stocking and bags under my eyes, I sometimes say, “hi everyone, don’t hate me because I’m beautiful” And it always works to great benefit..
These are my rambling thoughts. I hope some of them are useful. Now I’m going to wash off the makeup and put on my sweats. Oh sweet joy, the weekend is here!
Sometimes we forget that we are also interviewing the company
If life throws you lemons either make lemonade or squirt it back in there face.
I would have calmly asked the lady what made her feel that way ? And since she already decided I was a tart or braisin hussy. I would of made her give me an explanation, in a very detailed time consuming way, asked if she could bring another person in to help explain it to me. Really messed with her schedule.
She would have wanted to get you in the lobby so I would have dropped the entire contents of my briefcase, spilled her coffee, tripped on my shoe dropped my glasses, anything to take a whole lot of time from her day…
…The interview was already blown so why not.
You could of said said something really crazy like oh my gosh you have a cockroach in your office, yuck, yuck. I saw it crawl under your desk. Oh I feel so bad for you, I would have announced in the lobby thank you for interviewing me but I am allergic to cock roaches and I just don’t think I want to work her.
or you could have taken off your scarf and said here I dropped this on the floor, I really don’t want to take any bugs home with me, you can also have my brief case and left.
Now wouldn’t you have felt a lot better, just imagine…Nothing changes a conversation quicker than cockroaches….LOL
you know, I was going to give you a lecture about projecting your insecurities onto others, but I think in this case –in this case — you’ve just run into a freaky, pissed off lady.
If this has never happened to you before, if you’ve had some satisfying female relationships in your life, and if you realize you are attractive but consider your professional life to be reasonably separate from your sexuality, then I think that’s what’s happening.
Sometimes very insecure women show up and are just crazy and unfair and full of projections about who you are. Because we’re women, we want to figure out right away if it’s our fault, but, look, sometimes we just run into someone who is terminally unhappy and we’re the collateral damage of a bad divorce and a thyroid condition.
You never know, there could have been some cute girl who wrecked this woman’s office screwing everybody and blogging about it later and demanding that the whole office pool up to support the illegitimate children.
There’s a lot of potentially heavy stuff in this situation but personally, I don’t think it’s you. Sometimes crazy people show up in our lives and wreck our chances for a cool job just randomly. There might be a larger lesson at work, but the lesson might be that even the surest looking prospects don’t work out sometimes due to unforeseen circumstances. An upset overweight middle aged woman is the chaotic element in office politics these days, and: if sexual paranoia is what’s running that office, maybe you don’t want the job.
Try compassion. Can you imagine how unhappy this lady is if she needs to screw with you because she’s a size 20 and you’re a size 8?
“Sometimes we forget that we are also interviewing the company ”
Lol, Reality.
I gotta tell ya, I can’t wait until the Millenial Generation is most of the work force. The rules are gonna change.
My experience is the same as Job Seeker’s. Other often pick me as their nemesis – and I get along famously with men:)
carzy-moon wrote: “Still you can reconcile with a woman. […]. The cruelty of a man can climb to levels of complete destruction of other person”.
Quite the contrary, in my experience…:P
“The rules are gonna change.”
The more things change the more they stay the same says the old person (Saturn opp Uranus)
Eva, no you are so right, and I thought of that but I didn’t mention it. But I had to be careful to judge any university by the probable full blown insanity of any one of the 15 or more people in the interviewing process.
Tenure is dangerous. I’d love to see the tenure thing wiped off the academic map. Once someone gets tenure, some of them get so lazy that they read off the same notes in the classroom, year after year you see those notes turning yellow and disentegrating. It does not keep faculty members on their toes and gives them too much time on their hands to go around … doing who knows what. It is almost impossible to get fired if you have tenure, but prior to getting it, it sets up a process of backstabbing that is horrendous.
wow, I did digress on that. maybe I’ll ‘start a cause’ on facebook, get rid of tenure. Wow, that would really be a shocking idea for a lot of people, OH that would mean they have to keep working and learning and staying fresh for the entire time they are actually employed and that would be so great for the students!
Maureen, I love your ‘reframe’ on the ‘don’t hate me because I’m beautiful. I’ll bet that gets tons of laughs and i will be using it for that purpose a lot in the future, you know it! Thanks!
Back to job seeker, feel free to use me as a mirror because my chart enables that. I have my sun/mercury standing right on your DC. Thats why I said pow pow pow. If you come in with such an angry vibe, it won’t matter what you look like or what gender you are because all this bull is gonna see is r.e.d.
“Sometimes crazy people show up in our lives and wreck our chances for a cool job just randomly”
…like the man who interviewed me and asked if I *showered* when he read on my resume that I was a bike messenger?
Before asking me if I met any hot guys while traveling in Australia?
(In a split-second I decided the interview was lost and so said: “Yes I did but all the men I came across were morons” and smiled sweetly as in, SO ARE YOU).
That interview was effen weird beyond belief.
Perfect advice, Elsa–well said.
maureen – ROFL I am SO going to have to teach my SO about that one. He’s got “white man’s afro” when he doesn’t cut his hair, is seriously overweight and wears these horribly offensive t-shirts to large professional conferences (it’s his trademark by now) and he’s a leo. He will love to use that in the “ironic” humorous sense that is him.
I can just see it now “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful” as everyone in the room wonders if he’s crazy or just trying to put them at ease. ROFL. That is awesome.
Hmmm, here’s another angle: The other male interviewers know you are interviewing with this “rude, obese female”, and likelier than not they know her pretty well. If they really wanted to impress you, they would have set you up with someone more personable, right? I agree with what Reality said up there: “we are also interviewing the company”. What does it say about the company when they aren’t putting on their best face? Remember these are your prospective future colleagues…better to know who the jerks are BEFORE you sign a contract and get stuck working with one. You never know, you just might have dodged a bullet here.
“I have been sabotaged MANY TIMES over by women as I was climbing up the corporate ladder, due to hidden jealousy.”
Job is right about jealousy being hidden, but instead of cutting herself off from women perhaps it might be to her advantage to get along with them. Women (not just men) have a powerful (and hidden) network at work, and isolating yourself from that is potentially dangerous. Also, it’s easier to deflect jealousy from the beginning than to deal with it after it’s developed. Be modest and keep your skills and accomplishments to yourself. Do not show up to work looking your best! Dress, talk and walk like the others. Blend in, and save your skills for when they count – in front of the boss. You can let yourself shine when YOU are the boss 😉
Hello ladies. Did it ever occur to you that the obese dragon-lady wanted to touch you in intimite ways but could tell that you were straight? So she took her frustration at never having you out on you?
I just want to reiterate what Elsa said by giving two examples: Girl one was a libra I worked with in a department store. She was very pretty, grounded and smart although she put on a show of being a ‘bimbo’, as she herself put it.
I got along with her great, there was no competition over looks because there WAS no competition- she was a stunner.
At the christmas party I overheard her telling a collegue that she preferred the company of men because girls were ‘jealous and catty’. (these words keep coming up, don’t they?). I got so sad hearing that, as if all our conversations and interactions were false, or as if she chose not to see our friendship AT ALL.
The second girl was a scorpio who I met at the check-out of a supermarket. She was so beautiful, I asked her to model for me. She said ‘sure!'(Good thing about being female- you can say that to a stranger and they don’t think you want them in porn movies.) She modelled for me several times until a scout spotted her and now she’s a professional model. She also liked the artistic side of modelling so much she’s gone to uni (my uni!)to study fashion design. She’s very smart and talented and no I DO NOT feel anything negative towards her. All I want is for her to be happy and successful. When she graduates she may eclipse me professionally, who knows? I am just so pleased for her for finding something she is passionate about.
I feel so sorry for women like the job seeker- I couldn’t survive without my girlfriends.
I can definitely see looks and success being a major negative factor for a woman in a professional environment, esp an office or anywhere clique-y. But not in her personal life. A true friend does not base their friendship on such superficial criteria and there are plenty of women who are not superficial. Good friends are hard to find, so I would never rule out HALF of the potential friend-pool due to gender.
The first thing that stood out to me was chart ruler (and 6th house ruler) in 6th (workplace/servitude) in the sign of its detriment, opposing Pluto/Saturn in 12th, the house of hidden enemies and self undoing. That is one unhappy Mars and having serious enemies in the workplace is one way this chart can manifest.
Venus (ruler of 12th) is powerfully placed, dignified via house/sign, in the 7th house of OPEN enemies, but I think that is a more surface issue compared to the afflicted Mars. From a glance, I’d say Mars/Merc/Pluto/Saturn and the 6th/12th axis is the real source of the conflict.
I’d be jealous of you, Job. I assume all kind of things about attractive women. I am also very insecure. Sometimes (usually) I try to stay far away from them, other times I begin to obsess over them. I overanalyze them or somehow try to blunt their threat in my mind, all with an eye of nastiness. I was threatened by a Leo girl with flowing hair who was the star of the school and going out with a Libra man I was very attracted to. She was puzzled by my behavior, but she had no idea. I’m threatened by anybody who takes up so much attention. I’m sure there are many women like me. It is a weakness and it is easy to give in to the weakness of projecting on others and not trying to work on the flaw in yourself.
The interviewer was obese and rude.
I wonder if that was a test to see how you would react in a catty situation.
There are older females who look better than 25 year old females who do not care about all the outside shallowness of personal appearance.
There are overweight women getting older who do not care what you look like.
I know there are women out there who will hate a beautiful, smart women, been there and still being hated for my attractivness and its from the younger women.
I’m going to make an outrageous generalization based on what I’ve seen in the workforce: If you’re a pretty, slim, capable and intelligent young woman, you don’t want to work for a fat female boss.
Most of the time.