I wanted to talk about the shadow-side of talent, so I called my friend, Ben. He’s a Scorpio artist who has worked in the arts for decades.
We got talking about charisma. Ben mentioned instinctual actors like, Marlon Brando, Warren Beatty and James Dean. He mentioned Maria Callas as examples of people who have that IT quality. Never mind their flaws or lack or classical technique. Audiences love them.
“Can you imagine, Marlon Brando in a supporting role in a movie?” he asked. “He couldn’t do it. He’s too charismatic; he’s got to play the lead.”
Ben has charisma himself. He said that as embarrassing as it is to say so, whenever he watched films of performances, his eye was always drawn to himself. This is the case regardless if he were playing in a trio, a quartet or as part of symphony orchestra.
I am sure this is the case because he once told me that most all the donations that came in to support the various orchestras he’s played with, are donated to his chair. Consequently, when these organizations have needed money, they have used him (Scorpio energy) to raise it. Specifically, they take his picture because he plays his cello barefoot in all circumstance. You can imagine how people get a kick out of this and out comes the wallet. Ben couldn’t get away with that if he did not have so much charisma.
Chiron rules charisma. Ben has Chiron conjunct his ascendant in Aquarius, so you can see how his quirk plays well. Marlon Brando has Chiron conjunct his Sun, Moon and Mercury in Aries and it’s easy to see how his charisma is related in his raw male energy (Aries).
Are you charismatic? Where is Chiron in your chart?
I have Chiron in Leo conjunct ASC, but from the twelfth house side.Even if I have charisma, I don’t notice it.
Chiron also exactly squares Pluto, so… there goes my charisma XD
it’s conjunct my mercury…sometimes when i mangage to get around or in tune with the opposition of pluto in the 12th …i say or write things people will respond to…otherwise, no…just washing dishes in my 6th house kitchen
Chiron in Taurus on my Descendant. Hmph, this post doesn’t even make it sound half as bad!
Chiron in the 7th trine my Moon, and I think I’m practically invisible myself in social settings, but I do attract ultra charismatic people like flies. Mostly they want to complain about how they can’t turn it off, and how nobody sees them as they really are 🙂
Hmm. As people above mentioned Bill Clinton I checked and Monica Lewinsky also has Chiron in the 7th house. Lol.
Natally I have Chiron in Pisces as well as Jupiter in 5th trine ascendant Venus and Neptune in Scorpio in 1st which also trines Mars in Cancer in 9th, I think I have all that right lol ,I am aware of drawing people or attention and I find it confusing and off putting and most times I’m thinking to myself back off already sheesh!!
oh and i believe Chiron natally in 5th is retrograde
Mine’s on the 7th house cusp at 2 Pisces(my chiron return is happening now)and my husband was charismatic and alcoholic- I didn’t know the diff at the time…
Chiron in aries in exact conjunction with descendant. Also conjuncts aries jupiter in 6.
My Chiron in gemini in first house,i suppose is something that couldn’t miss.I ve got a close conjuction with my gemini Lilith (also in first house), square with my virgo Mercury and opposition with my saggitarius uranus (a part of my mutuable t square).Could this by any means indicate a literature charisma or of other artist expression?
Even thought chiron is in hard aspects?
I have Chiron conjunct Jupiter in the 10th. All this time I thought it was just the wound. I had no idea it ruled charisma. very cool
I’ve got Chiron in the 4th in Gemini. I honestly don’t have any idea as to whether I’m charismatic or not. I guess I’m not terrible, but I just don’t know.
Geez! I never thought I was, but I have nearly all of my personal planets making aspect to my Aquarian 3rd house Chiron…maybe quirky or wonky??..lol I thought Chiron had to do with healing oneself…so this is an interesting addition to understand about Chiron. Thanks Elsa.
I think my Taurus 2nd house Chiron (conjunct Juno) works on midpoints.
Chiron (& Juno, Venus, Pallas) = Sun/Moon
Chiron (& Juno) = Venus&Pallas/Mars (forming T-square)
Usually, people are surprised when they know I’m a Piscean (Pisces sun in 12th house). They always thought I’m Aquarius (my Venus & Pallas sign) or less often Taurus (Chiron & Juno). Venus is my only main planet with air sign.
My Aries ascendant is weak to begin with – no major aspect with any planet (only quincunx Scorpio Mars) and 1st house is empty.
I think I am more charismatic (& confident) when I can combine my Aquarius Venus and Scorpio Mars, although Venus square Mars often gives me problem.
Merc/Chiron conjunct the MC in Leo. I don’t know if I have charisma! I never thought I did.
But today I gave a tour to some people at my job and at the end of the tour one of the guys shook my hand with money in it. He gave me money for giving him a great tour. I thought that was very nice.
I don’t know if I’m charismatic or not, but I like being in the public! 🙂
I was complaining to a therapist once about the bad behavior of a boyfriend, and she said, ‘Charismatic people never get called on their shit.’ Driving home, pondering this, I thought: I have no charisma. Zero.
I have Chiron in Aquarius opposing Venus in Leo. Will have to consider this more.
@Oakmoss, I’m wondering if your therapist has charisma…or lacks it.
@Elsa, You are one perceptive cookie. I’m laughing, because that therapist did have a couple of good points…in there somewhere…but I eventually realized she disliked me, it wasn’t just ‘the resistance to the cure’. The feeling became increasingly mutual.
She terminated my therapy in an astonishing and unprofessional way. I had worked with her for 3 years and we had had no discussion of actually terminating. She told me to call to schedule my next appointment, because she wasn’t sure exactly when she would be available. I called and the number had been disconnected. I drove to her office and found she had closed it. Considering a main focus had been my abandonment issues, I thought she did a nice job of following in the footsteps of my parents and several lovers.
Sounds like a dick(tress), Oak. I’m sorry. 🙁
Thanks, I actually learned to trust my own instincts better as a result. I should have walked out the first day. A learning experience.
Taurus chiron conjunct my ascendant, 3 degree orb. I dont know if I can call it applying aspect since I dont know if we use that word with angles. Chiron is 3 degrees ahead of my acsendant so tha ascendant is moving towards it.
Charishma, yes I have it in loads. I also have very strong scorpio and libra placements. So I dont know what is working when. But I have won every debate competetion I have ever participated in. Mercury conjunction pluto works just not for me but also on the entire audience.
I have also had lots of unexpected people approaching me when I am quite shy and closed off in public, that is always shocking and it made me more reserved.
But I have never learned to work it in a defined manner.
I just keep myself closed off and shy in crowds.
When I have an audience, I can mesmerize an entire hall full of intellectuals.
It just works on its own, it doesnt obey.
I didn’t know that Chiron rules charisma! I am definitely curious to investigate this more. Chiron sits in my second house, very close to the cusp of the third house… Any thoughts on the charismatic aspect of Chiron in this point of the chart?
I think this is fascinating! I have Chiron conjunct my NN in Gemini, 4th house, but it’s also square Mars and Venus, as well as opposing Uranus and Mars. What does it mean when Chiron has negative aspects? Does that mean you are even WORSE than being charismatic, you are repellant?!
I believe I have some measure of charisma (I’m a Leo) but most of the aspects mentioned in the comments seem to be positive aspects.
I have Chiron conjunct my Sun, Venus, Vesta, Pallas and possibly Mercury (approx. 1˚) in Virgo, 5th house of Leo cusp, I know somewhat confusing (but it’s intercepted), and Chiron also trines my ascendant (in Taurus), I do have the potential to be very charismatic but it opposes my 11th house in Saturn, so I am guessing that I have much trouble expressing myself, which I do.. 🙁
What do you think? (other than having to many aspects/planets in my 5th house! xD)
Mine’s in Cap, in the 10th, at the very top of my chart. What’s up with that?
I guess I’d know by now if I had charisma.
I can’t think I have charisma. Chiron conjuncts mercury at 2 degrees cappy in the 4th house, while squaring Libra mars in the 1st and Aries jupiter in the 7th. If you know me well you know I have a tremendously difficult time expressing my feelings but somehow am forgiven. When people initially meet me they are charmed by me intellectually but that is because I am a very good listener – they are actually charmed by my charm of them! And just to say I usually am charmed by others.
What did I just say?
I have Chiron conjunct Venus in Aquarius in the 2nd house square moon in Taurus in 5th. Sun conjunct nadir at the focal point of a yod to neptune/jupter and pluto. The Venus Moon square is wide separating to Uranus in Leo (would make a Moon T-Square). I feel the wounded attraction overshadows charisma side myself…
My Chiron’s in Pisces conjunct MC and Jupiter, 9th house side (which is obviously square ASC). I’ve sort of always just viewed my Chiron as an open wound that all the predators can smell. I’d call myself more “charming” than charismatic, and I’ve always attributed that to being a Gemini ASC… FWIW….
I certainly don’t feel charismatic. I have Chiron in Pisces.
Fascinating! I had only heard of Chiron in terms of a place of wounding. Mine’s in Leo in the 7th house, conjunct N.Nodes. When I taught I would collect groupies – without wanting to I might add!
sometimes I feel like I’m charismatic, but I’m very confused about it.people react to me strongly,that’s for sure.I never go unnoticed as I walk by,yet the moment I express myself something seems to backfire.I feel uneffective in the world, though I’m talented and skilled in my job.
I’m chiron conj.sun and north node in aries, plus saturn conj venus rx in aries.chiron also trines moon and conj, mercury.
I suppose my path in this life is to assert myself by overcoming fear and self diminishing stemming from childhood and who knows where else.venus in also sq. moon so the whole feminine nature is battered.
when I sing or play the piano I get transformed, pure emotion speaking to people on such a deep level it can be disturbing,because driven by something painful.chiron is conj mercury but also eros…I’m triggered by musicians and they react to me.
my feeling about how people react to me is that I trigger wounded parts in them, kept aside as blind spots no-one wants to see.I have to cope with this if it’s going to last all my life and has given me enough pain,so far.
is there anything such as the charisma of the outcasts??sometimes I feel like this
sex is another matter.men perceive me as very sexual,but so far the ones who I let come close were unable to relate sex to affection,it must reflect a disconnection inside me(venus quincunx pluto and opp asc.,plus sq. moon ad conj saturn).I feel like I’m torn in 2, as a sexless individual and a strongly sexual woman who cannot express herself freely
Well I do have Jupiter in Libra and Juno in Gemini that support my Aquarius Chiron in the third. But as far as Charisma? No idea, but don’t think so. Chiron squares my Sun and I believe my Moon/Pluto conjunction as well. No I am much the outsider. : ( Got teased A LOT in school. In High School I just dressed super eccentric to hide my insecurities. I dressed like a glitter rock star…Aquarius rule glitter, right? : )
wow interesting article. My mother and my grandmother always told me, “you can’t buy charisma” …yet both of them, in their younger years (or prime) they turned heads everywhere. It’s as if they have this “special club” of charisma. Now that i’m into astrology, i didnt realize that chiron has alot to do with it.
Wow!!! This is so interesting!!! I had no idea Chiron ruled charisma…
Mine is one degree above my ASC in Taurus, also conj Venus/Mars, opp Uranus. Although I don’t feel like I have any charisma.
I am a Capricorn and have Chiron tightly conjunct my Ascendant in Aquarius in the first house. I also have Venus conjunct the ascendant in the 12th house, in a tight T-square with Moon in Taurus (loose conj Mars) and Uranus in Leo. With a Saturn-Pluto trine and a Mercury-Moon-Neptune aspect, I have been told I am very charismatic and day dreamy and that I pull friends easily. If I am that charismatic, where’s my life partner? I guess I must frighten them off.
Indeed it is 🙁
Just to confirm from my last message, Uranus opposes my Ascendant and my Venus and is the strongest energy in the chart.Anyone got any thoughts about having oodles of great friends but no one partner?
Very interesting… my Chiron in Gemini is conjunct my Moon, square my Venus, sextile Jupiter, and trine my Ascendant exact! I’ve noticed people with Venus conjunct Chiron tend to have a special kind of charisma, I don’t know if it works as well with the square in my case. I’m not the kind of person people have ever dished out compliments on freely, so I don’t know, but I can relate to Chiron energy a lot, especially with it conjunct my Moon so close.
I just had to do a little research. I have sun quincunx Chiron. It also opposes my mercury in Scorpio. According to my research i am charismatic. I’ve been told that I am. But I think it’s an odd kind of charisma. It’s hard to explain. I’ve been told a few times that I’m “fun to look at”. I think people are interested in me but don’t want to get too close.
I have Chiron in my 12th, but it’s part of a Cardinal Grand Cross with Libra Moon, Cap Neptune and my 9th House Aries Mars.
I also have Chiron trine Pluto (in Scorpio).
People notice me.
I have Chiron conjunct my moon both at 15 degrees Aries in the 8th house with a Uranus opposition at 15 degrees Libra in the 2nd house. While I see this as affecting my healing ability and empathy with others, most of the time it does not manifest as charisma (or at least, I don’t see it that way). Perhaps that due to the influence of Uranus?
Stumbled onto this post way, way after the fact…after investigating Brando’s astro chart on the tail end of seeing the newly released (and excellent) documentary “Listen to Me Marlon”.
Gotta say, I think the IT factor in Brando’s chart comes more from having his sun & moon conjunction (and Chiron too) involved in a couple of fire grand trines… along with some significant Pluto aspects to boot.
Wow, colhi.
Just stumbled onto a superb youtube video by David Cochrane talking about Chiron and Charisma! About 11 min in he mentions you and this blog post! He said it was amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3urPiaECs
I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know, Shan. 🙂
Shan, this is a super interesting talk, and inclusion of Elsa is pretty cool. Opened many new windows for approaching Chiron. I like his research alot, and still have the last twenty minutes to listen to.
I have Chiron conjunct my MC by 1degree
Which means its also opposite my Saturn, square my Mercury and trine my Neptune
Would this mean i have charisma in public relations?
I never knew Chiron had anything to do with charisma, i’ve always wanted to be an Actress and i thought my Chiron on my MC was destined to hinder that dream
What a great insight about Chiron!
I’ve got Sun conjunct Chiron in the 8th house, in Aquarius, and Uranus opposes this shebang. Hey! Increasingly I’ve come to realize I’m a healing portal, and this is further confirmation. (Jupiter also exactly sextiles Chiron). I can’t say whether I have charisma; where’s a mirror? But people can act as a mirror, and I’m told I have a radiance. Shine on!
This post is very llllliberrrrating!
Chiron is conjunct my ascendant – in Cap. I don’t feel charismatic but I am in a hermit phase lately. When I was young and gorgeous I thought I was something special, but now that has faded it may be that the real meaning of Chiron comes out. I think it may have to do with being a screen for others projections of vulnerability/possibility.
Does that resonate?
I have Chiron loosely conjunct Mercury in Virgo 5th house, opposite Saturn. Lol. Zero charisma.
Medium charisma? I wonder if that’s often the case for the 7th house placement with no or few major contacts.
I have no idea about my personal charisma but my Chiron is at 28 degrees in Gemini, conjunct my DC. I have heard this degree is associated with NY, NY, god knows how… I only know I dread the public eye.
Aquarius rising, several Uranus aspects and a borderline Aspergers, I’m comfortable being a fly on the wall and invisible. Embarrassed if centre of attention. However; charismatic Chiron conjuncts North Node exact in seventh with exact trine to Sun in third on the IC which is square to attention-getting Jupiter in the sixth. I can’t help bursting out. Happiest when making others laugh.
I have Chiron in late Aquarius about 5′ from my 3′ Pisces Ascendant. Does this diminish the charisma? I have been in stage productions as an amateur, unpaid performer.