v
This for today’s Mercury Pluto – discussing (Mercury) the shadow / psychology /death (Pluto)
“What is it that people don’t believe I was in Special Forces?” the soldier asked. Do you know when I have told someone that, not once have they believed me. Not once in my whole life have I been believed so why is that, P? What is it about me that makes it seem as if I was not in Special Forces?”
“Oh, it’s not personal. That’s just not something anyone is going to believe – You wouldn’t believe it yourself.”
“How do you know that?”
“Say you’re sitting in a bar and some guy say, yeah I used to be with the CIA. Are you going to believe him?”
“No. But I have worked with the CIA and if I were one of them… well who’d even admit that?”
I laughed. “Okay, so you would not believe them and what happens to you is the same thing.”
“But I’m not sitting in a bar. I am…” he mentioned some very legitimate places to be.
“Doesn’t matter. If a person was in any one of the those places and claimed they used to work undercover for the CIA, they’d not be believed. See what I mean? Has nothing to do with you, do you want to hear more? Want to hear what other things people think of you? These are normal people, now. Just normal people… people like me unless they happen to find out different.”
“Tell me”.
“Well first like you say, they don’t believe you. But let’s say they do believe you. They find out some kind of way that you were in Special Forces, they still don’t think you killed anyone.”
“What?”
“They think you were in Special Forces, this does not mean you killed anyone. You might have. It’s possible that in more than a decade in SF you might have killed someone, maybe. Maybe, but if you did it would be no more than one person. That’s it.”
“P! That’s like learning to be a machinist and making one part.”
I laughed. “Yeah, I know but I am telling you this is how people think. Maybe you killed someone… you might have killed one person – maybe. This is what people thought when I first started writing about you on my blog. They said it right in the comments.”
“You’re kidding me.”
“I’m not. Are you kidding me? I was with an artist before you and people liked it just fine. They had no idea what to make of the new development but here’s the amazing part. Here is the amusing part. If you come right out and tell them you killed someone they will go right back to non-believing. That bastard said he killed someone but I bet he didn’t. That guy never killed anyone.”
He opened his mouth in a mock jaw-drop, we were in the tub of course.
“Yes. There is no way your average person is going to hang around you and not throw up some kind of denial.’
“When someones does believe me guess what the first thing they want to know is?”
“Did you kill anyone?”
“Yep, that’s what they ask.”
“Well I guarantee you if you tell them you did they’re going to smile and walk away and say, that guy didn’t kill anyone, he’s a lying bastard. They just really don’t want this in their head.”
“They don’t?”
“No! They don’t want to think about you killing someone or even know there are people out there who someone had better kill. Are you kidding me? They have a concert to go to tonight. Or it’s their kid’s birthday. They have other things to do besides have things like this in their head so this is what they do. The make you a liar. Either you’re a liar or you’re not and either way it goes you’re the shadow and they’re not. Forget about it, you can’t win. No matter what you do or I do we are always going to carry the shadow for other people so do we really care? It won’t help us if we care, it won’t change a thing.”
No answer.
“Hand me that wine.”
are people really that naïve?
I think people don’t want to think that a normal, average, everyday person that they know is capable of killing someone — even when it’s in war, in some extreme situation. I’ve always thought it’s because they don’t want to acknowledge that there are circumstances in which they would be able to do the same — they project their denial onto someone. And they monsterize the people who are capable. So if you’re not a monster…well, then you can’t be capable of killing. Because if you, Mr. Normal, are capable, then what about me?
It’s more self-protection / desire *not* to know than naivite, I think.
I’ve never had a problem with thinking about “normal people” possibly killing someone, either in the future or the past. The only time I would think someone was lying about it is if it feels like swagger. And it’s funny you bring up self-denial, Carielle, because I know, deep in my soul, that I can kill if the circumstances are right. No doubt. And my husband’s the same way. *smiles*
Then again, working for the psychiatric practice, two of my favorite patients had been violent in the past: one murdered her husband after twenty years of abuse, one shot a man (I never found out if he was wounded or killed).
Denial …..its more than just a river in Egypt.
As a culture, we fantasize and ogle over death every goddamned day. It sells lots of motorcars diet coke and twinkies.
Making it real, in any way, brings the fantasy to reality.
If they can keep it as fantasy, they can continue to believe that their country only ever kills bad-guys and never makes mistakes, just like the bazillion movie scripts, and our president or prime minister, say it is.
Lots of real grit and grime never has to be considered if you just keep the fantasy intact.
If I have to identify the one real weakness with western economic systems, it is that we have come to rely far too much on keeping the fantasy alive, to the detriment of the mental acuity of our citizens. But it sells more products, and keeps us too busy with mundane matters to organize an alternative, so we do it anyway, and we mostly enjoy the ride… till the special services vet opens his mouth…
I think its a broader issue, but Elsa nailed it
Someone who would ask that kind of question right off is, in my books, immature and flat-out rude. It’s the sort of question grown people used to never ask outright, but an excited eleven year-old boy might. But then our culture likes to produce this sort–big eleven year olds.
I’m not being stuffy, just want you to know. Being a professional killer–or any work that plays with the boundaries of life and death–is serious business. Questions like this from grown people infer that the questioner doesn’t understand the profundity of human life. Maybe the shadow they haven’t yet ‘grokked’ is death itself. But then we’ve created such a Neptunian culture that I doubt we’d recognize reality even if it came up and shot us in the chest.
Well this sort of thing certainly played out at the opening night of the Democratic National Convention. I kept waiting to hear the REAL thing, right out of the gate, shouted from the rafters. Let’s get to it! We’re in big trouble! recession, poverty, war. But no..just lots of feel-good stuff instead. I suppose they’ll get around to this, but it already feels too late. It left me confused and angry. I feel pissed.
I would believe it, I have Scorpio Moon too, so I can see stuff like that. So my question would be, did you ever kill someone that deserved to die?
You can ask him that for me, I’d be very interested to know.
Jeremy – Don’t have to ask him, I already know the answer to this. He is completely at peace, satisfied that everyone he has killed had it coming and needed to be killed. He had no question about this in his mind whatsoever and I mean NONE.
“everyone he has killed had it coming and needed to be killed. He had no question about this in his mind whatsoever and I mean NONE”. That’s the disturbing part, right there. But good for him;)
It’s my strong Neptune in Sagittarius and 4 planets in Libra speaking, I think!;) Too much doubting and relativity…:) Different people, different jobs. Nice how it all works out, hehe.
Well it’s not disturbing in the least if you understand the context. For example, say there is a gunman in a school, picking off children, bang, bang. bang.
Someone better get in there and kill the person – End of story.