Let’s say you’re betrayed in some way. My husband and I deal with this, differently. I will flat out tell a person, look. I don’t trust you anymore. I will say those words. I will also say, “I don’t want to deal with you, and I am not going to deal with you.”
That will be it. I will absolutely dump a person and it would be miraculous if they ever heard a word from me again.
My husband doesn’t do this. He continues to deal with a person he no longer trusts. He just doesn’t tell them anything important, or private or sensitive. He’s like a shell, I guess you could say. He thinks I go too far.
I’ve considered this, but I can’t imagine expending energy to maintain a connection with someone who has lost my trust. I don’t see the point.
I think the difference between my husband and I, is his Gemini vs my Capricorn. He’s got two faces, available. I will fire your ass.
I don’t care what people think of my way. I’m not going to have a life full of people who I don’t like, who don’t like me, just to please someone on the outside. But I think my husband’s kind is a lot more dangerous. People who will smile at you and pass you the peas, when they think you’re a worm.
How do you deal with situations like this? And how do you feel about how other people deal with them?
I’m squirming uncomfortably now LOL because I’m know I do both. It depends on the situation. The first one is preferable by miles, because I like to know where I stand with people. If I find that after attempts to establish mutual trust, that it does not come, and their behavior doesn’t match what they are saying, time and time again, then that’s it. No more.
The latter one, the smiling while you pass the peas but think they’re a worm version, is the one I would least like, and yet I’m sure I do this. Why? Probably because I can think of situations where I have still had to be involved in some way with that person…work, neighbor (in the same building), that kind of thing.
I’ve also had people cut me dead, or said they don’t trust me, without discussion, when I know I have been totally trustworthy, and that has hurt so much that they didn’t try to shift passed their judgement of me. But that’s their thing, and that’s life.
Come to think of it, this fits with my Moon Scorpio and Mars Libra 😉
I have Mars in Libra, he has a Scorpio Moon.
🙂 That’s funny ‘cos I had been thinking it was my Libra that was doing the ‘smiling’ and the Scorpio doing the ‘amputating’. But I am learning a lot about Mars Libra for me this recent transit. And it’s not all kittens and candlyfloss…
“..not all Kittens and candyfloss”……great phrase!
My mom and ex-fiance both were Gems with Moon Scorpio. More dangerous, I agree…they don’t tell you everything. Both wound up betraying me, but my Mars Scorpio attitude was what cut them out of my life completely. I side with you, Elsa – tell them, so there aren’t any misunderstandings (all my Sadge brutal honesty), but I wait until some ultimate line is crossed (Mars Scorpio). My Moon Libra allows me to “fake it” until then ;o)
I don’t tell them anything, I just cut the connection, I don’t think, they would understand why I don’t trust them anymore if they were able to do me something, that made me not to trust them… I don’t know, what could show this in my chart… maybe that my ASC is Sag, my Jupiter is in Capricorn…
whats the old saying..keep your friends close..your enemies closer.
Wow. I really had to think about this. I tend to want to have nothing more to do with them, but there have been instances in my life where I have had to be in contact with people who seriously disappointed me due to work or family situations and obligations, and in those cases I do behave like your husband. I am polite, but distant. If I have the option to well and truly cut them off, I do. I can see the reasoning behind both approaches.
One thing I don’t understand is people who “cut someone off” yet continue to talk about them, gossip about them, or make fun of them with other people. Amputated is amputated, isn’t it? You’re either over them or you’re not, and if they’re still on your mind, you’re not over them.
It depends on if it is possible for me to cut ties with them completely. You cannot fire a person and never speak to them again if you have to work with them. In that case, I’m with Rhino. I try to keep it uppermost in my mind that they are not to be trusted with sensitive info. I keep it to business. In my personal life, you betcha I can fire them and never have second thoughts. I can forgive a person and I always give chances for them to redeem themselves but if it is clear they are not to be trusted, they are outside the wall that I will quickly construct.
When it happened to me, the moment I discovered my best friend (basically a brother to me) had betrayed my trust once more, my final words were “That’s it. You’re out”. And then I cut him off.
That was his second chance, I had actually forgiven him before (Venus tied up with Neptune) but once I found out my forgiveness had been stepped on, there was no looking back. I have a tiny bit of Capricorn (Desc + Neptune), plus Saturn/Mars, a broad Saturn/Venus aspect and … I think that’s about it.
With my mother, I basically dumped her cold.
Then the question that ought to follow this ought to be….
How do YOU (objective) handle yourself when YOU betray someone and break their trust….do you do onto yourself as you do onto others….
out the door…righteous and cold…. or pretend, smile and glide on the surface…
In other words shouldn’t your typical way of handling this type of situation be applied to yourself as well…Or is their a different treatment reserved for that?
I wonder what aspects/placements to look for in that twist?
That’s a good question thx
I want to dump them cold but family is something you’re stuck with right? Mom lives with me in a house underwater. And my husband’s family is part of his life, so I’m stuck with them too. Back stabbing people in my past I usually just dump, cold but my family I play the game to get through birthdays & holidays. Makes it a little more pleasant. Leo sun, libra asc, and a strong mars in scorpio. Wish I had the strength to dump the family as needed.
My moon is in Gemini. I relate to what you’ve said about your husband very much but I aspire to do what you do. This is especially true for me regarding old romantic relationships. I have rarely broken up with anyone and walked away. I was compelled to be friends with them long after the fact. I finally got to the point (which I think is much healthier) where I broke up with the guys who I had remained friends with a 2nd time to end the friendship. Twice as much work, twice as much pain this way.
There’s a thread on Saturn in Scorpio making more people disappear and I definitely fall into that category. I keep my distance in general once I realize I absolutely cannot trust someone. I may be cordial because I don’t care for a big blowout fight, (sn libra square venus/mercury = diplomacy ?) but I used to keep up a veneer for the sake of peace. Now if I’m gone, I’m gone.
I’m still mostly polite if they approach me but I’m just not interested in pretending anymore. It hurts to be left by anyone so I try not to leave coldly ever but lately I’m sure that’s how I come accross because I simply lack the energy and words to give more.
I just don’t like pretending. I think it comes from my upbringing.
I would say that, for 99% of the time, I am more like your husband. Of course, I can’t hide anything, so the person will know that something has changed between us. But, I rarely tell them, “hey, you fucked up, now gtfo of my life.” When I do get to that point, I tend to follow that up with blocking them via every avenue I can. Phone numbers, applications (FB, etc.), I’ll even set up a rule in my email so that theirs goes directly to trash. I obliterate them. When I behave like the former, it likely IS my Gemini Mars – “keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.” When it comes to the latter, it’s likely my Moon conj Pluto – “nothing will remain of you, not even your ashes.” 😉
I don’t have the luxury of burning bridges in a small town. I may avoid the person in the grocery store sometimes, but there is no getting away from them or their friends and family. 10 years from now their first cousin may be my boss.
yeah, that’s a consideration, Tam.
I totally understand your feelings though Elsa and have thought them as well.
It’s the self-discipline of Scorpios that allows them to contine to be civil around people that betray them. For the more evolved Scorpios, that is, those that aren’t actively vengeful, it can still be very satisfying to watch karma bite the betrayer later on. The evolved Scorpio won’t even comment about it, usually. They just smile, raise an eyebrow all Spock-like, and shake their heads. : )
I appreciate clear communication, and the opportunity to process pain, betrayal and perceived hurt with others. Moving away from blame, judgments and fear of what others think continues to help me navigate this sometimes confusing world. I like it when people are honest with me, and those who value my honesty. I see the grey…and love the chance to comment. Thank you, Elsa!
Generally speaking, I’ve come to really understand that life is short…and energy limited (Saturn in Scorpio).
I also have a 7th house Uranus – if you’re not friends, why cling?
Basically, my husband doesn’t tell people how he feels. Moon in Scorp, it’s none of their business?
I tell them, for a reason. The reason is that they keep coming back, looking for energy, and I’ve not got any to offer.
To me it’s like telling a salesmen who keeps knocking on your door – you have no money!
The money is gone, so wth? Let’s quit wasting each other’s time.
Not a dumper. Fine if you are. Whatever works for you, works.
I’m with Elsa’s husband. I see what you do, I see what you are, I don’t trust you with anything ever again. But I don’t waste my time spelling it out to you. I tend to think you’ll get it anyway. Plus, I really don’t care if you do or don’t.
Plus – it really has to be something major before that happens.
I have a lot of Scorpio. We are about survival. Sometimes in order to survive you have to make nicey-nice with people who have screwed you over and not let on that you know they have. Temporarily. Till you get away from them. So, no, I don’t do Grand Scenes. I just carry on, planning how I can get shot of them and never have to deal with them again.
I love this topic and I am glad to see the variety of approaches in the way others deal with this issue! With age and self awareness (astrologically, therapeutically) my approaches change. I am a Sun and Mercury Leo and Aries Moon so I prefer not to screw around with relationships that aren’t trustworthy. However with Libra rising I am not fond of messiness so of course there is discomfort and conflict. When really angered by another’s deception I will “Banish the person from my kingdom” although it takes a lot. My loyalty runs deeply and it is ultra hurtful to be betrayed. Anyway, great topic!
I will deal with people I don’t trust in a work situation or something like that but not in a friendship or relationship. I’m kind of with your husband. If I chose not to deal with everyone I didn’t trust I wouldn’t be able to live my life, make money, etc. And I never tell people that I do amputate the reason for it. I figure if they’re an adult and they don’t value trust, then what’s me telling them going to do? I’ve learned and accepted the fact that I can’t change people. And I don’t feel it’s my place to teach them.
As far as energy goes, I think I’m always aware of that. I do what takes the least amount of energy with these people. Sometimes breaking up with them takes more energy.
After a major betrayal it’s over: you just don’t exist anymore. I don’t see you, I don’t hear you, I don’t speak to you, I don’t speak of you, no explaining, nothing, just nothing.
It’s not that I DON’T LIKE pretending, I’m INCAPABLE of pretending.
„Sometimes in order to survive you have to…” – No I don’t! I don’t have to, I don’t want to, and I just don’t care!
Don’t think I haven’t payed for this attitude – I have very dearly and I have always seen it coming.
Libra sun, with Moon in Scorpio squaring Pluto in the 12th house.
Like I said, people deal with things in different ways.
Plus – sometimes you DO have to carry on for survival-s sake. Temporarily. You are in a job you can’t just leave, you are in a financial bind that will ruin you to walk away from over a betrayal, there are children involved, there are elderly parents. There are lots of things which make a cold shut-down impossible for some people. If it is not impossible for you, great. Tell them all to go to hell.
I don’t look at things like that. It doesn’t kill me to go on acting as usual with a betrayer, because I just don’t care about the person at all. They might as well be a puddle on the street that I have to step over. I manage the person and situation out of my life. Because in a sense they are gone anyway, as far as I am concerned.
Interesting how different we all are.
I have always given second and even more chances. I sometimes feel into deep holes myself and have been grateful for charity when I most needed it and felt most unworthy of it. But I have also promised myself to walk away from any situation in life with others or with myself where I could not look them or myself into the eye or into the mirror. My Libra ascendant conjunct Libra Venus needs to be loved and a Scorpio Mars does not allow falseness, I suppose..
OK, maybe I got too heated up a moment ago.
Natally, I have Uranus squaring three planets in Libra, and right now Uranus in transit is making nearly an exact opposition to my Sun.
It doesn’t matter whether you tell them out right or not. They’ll know in their soul or heart whether they are trustworthy or not. Might as well not say it to not give them any power. Your husband is a tactical strategist in relationships. He wields power subtlety.
That’s true, Victoria, in regards to my husband.
He said he would never take me on patrol with him, because I don’t / won’t wait until someone is in the kill zone.
I think this is precisely correct…which is why I wrote in the original post – I feel he’s far more dangerous.
My big thing is I leave. Jupiter! BYE!!
It’s all I can do, to stay in the first place, so there you go. 🙂
seems like you have luck on your side / the protection thing going on 😉
I live in hope. 🙂
Elsa, at least you tell the person flat out – I just amputate. My husband keeps good relationship w/everybody and keeps reminding me, ‘they only know what you tell them.’
Usually I’m the one being dumped, coldly.
(((fish)))
You’re usually better off, though.
Elsa, the writing in this one, is very Jupiter/Pluto. Leave (Jupiter) and amputate (Pluto).
I have dumped some people coldly too. Although I wouldn’t call it cold, more like scared and freaked out!
Way to go Elsa…love your site…it gives me so much info that improves my life!
Triple Virgo Maggie
Thanks, Maggie. 🙂
I’m also a Scorpio moon with Mars in Libra. My first instinct when I was younger, was to burn bridges immediately out of hurt and anger. I don’t think it’s necessary now to be so final always. I sit with my feelings, detach, and rarely see that person. If I have to, I’m civil but distant. I find this a much better use of my energy and it allows the possibility of a rapprochement later on.
I have a Scorpio Moon with Mars in Libra too. I was always a hot-head in my younger days. Today, I just detach, in most cases. I close the door, though I never burn the bridge like I would have in the past.
“ I think the difference between my husband and I is his Gemini and my Capricorn.”
I think, when you are dumped coldly, completely, it means you had at least once been taken seriously. When you are cut off civilly, politely, with a kind of tolerance, when you are passed the peas with a smile, how important were you to that person, how important was your betrayal?
And yes the person that is able to smile at someone after a betrayal is definitely a more dangerous person, Gemini or not.
I’m hardly ever in position to completely cut out people who’ve betrayed me. But sometimes, I’m able to expose their lack of intergrity to others.
Astrologically speaking, I suspect it’s my Libra Pluto that’s conjunct Sun – 1st house as I’ve discovered recently – and squares Capricorn Moon, though. And 11th house Saturn that’s connected to both.
I just tap them out of my life like a cigarette ash.
Mars in Leo does it loud and proud. If I dismiss someone, they will most definitely know about it unless I think I can get more mileage by keeping them in the dark. I’m not much for pretending and I don’t have time for b.s. people.
I have a pretty long fuse and try to work it out. But once I can’t, I tend to go nuclear winter on the sitch. Not only will I not participate, but I will hang on to just enough of the hurt that nothing can ever grow there again. Whether or not I tell the person that I’m doing it or why I’m doing it depends. If I want to insult them, I will tell them why. If I want them to be hurt, I will. If I want to be as kind as possible, I just disappear.
clarification: I don’t actively hurt, when I hang on to it. I just remember what it felt like. I don’t think that was clear. Also Mars in Cancer, no surprise there.
I’ve been going through this very thing for the last 3 weeks. My SIL wants me to apologize for her screaming at me but I’ve come to believe she is toxic and rude. I feel like I deserve an apology, but I think as she is a 29-degree Aquarius, she always ready to “chop someone’s head off.” I think part of me (Libra sun, Gemini moon) wants to sweep it under a rug but the Mars square Pluto aspect of me just won’t let me let her off the hook that easy so it’s still messy and painful.
I can be one or the other. I’ve told people when they’ve gone too far, and I’ve told them my intentions. If I’m forced to deal with them, I can easily be polite. I just don’t ever let them close again. It depends on the person, the circumstances, etc., I think the only time I warn/inform people they’re losing my trust, is if they’re close to me and I think it will matter to them. If I’m not sure how much they’ll care or not, I just keep it to myself. If they’re ever curious, I’ll let them know; but, not until they ask.
I had an experience of this in a recent work / office experience. A 20-something selfie-mad PR girl was undermining me after I had befriended her when I first started and needed some support. She did some really underhand things to make herself look good at my expense (Libran Sun opposing my Sun, Moon and Mars in Aries), but as we know in the corporate world you cannot express what you think (unless you are very Machiavellian about it). So I bided my time and when we had both left the organisation she sent me a Friend request on Facebook. I accepted on my professional one but ignored her on the personal one, despite Friending several others in our team. She got the message. I am now setting up my own business and know that this is the only real way forward. I was so fed up with the lies, being elbowed and put down by others jostling for a senior position. Life’s too short to keep playing that game. Onwards.
I’ve got a lot of people in my life but a very tight small inner circle. If you’re on the inside & something goes bad I’m very to the point, unafraid to spill some blood right then and there & likely out the door. Everyone else, I tend to strategize and can be ok with snakes & leaches and all the rest. Gem mars moon. Sun pluto conj libra.
I don’t understand; Gemini what and Capricorn which pkease
I keep people around way too long. Cancer with Libra rising. Friends for decades. I never let anyone go, even the ones that should, decades and decades.
I feel you Elsa. When I’ve been badly hurt or lost trust I will tell you and if you there is no way to fix it I leave or cut you. A few months ago I had to make the most devastating call I have had to make in awhile and that is to cut a man loved and would have loved forever. He told him I was cold and majority of the people around me told me was cold. It makes me so sad because I have scorp and cap and those who truly know me know I very rarely cut or dump people. If cut or dump you its because something has gone terribly wrong :(. I realised not everyone understood this about me or at least didn’t want too. I wish I could be like your solider because maybe I could have kept some people in my life at a surface level but I’m not made that way. You’re either all in or I am all out, hurts too much to be anything less, and you’re right it energy draining. At least for me.
Thanks, skye11. It’s nice to be understood. 🙂
Jaws– I know a Cancer with Libra Rising who is just one of the loveliest people you could ever meet. She’s just like you; she hangs on to people forever. Sometimes she feels depleted and disappears but she always comes back.
Depends on the situation. Is it someone I CAN cut out of my life, or are they a family member or coworker that I will be dealing with forever/indefinitely? If I still have to deal with the person whether I want to or not and I can’t choose to dump them out, then I will take your husband’s approach.
Your subjects are always what I am dealing with at the moment,
To do a cleanse of someone who has betrayed To throw them out of your heart ,for this cancer woman is not easy,
There is always karma involved , and another chapter
However , I have absolutely done it,
Last night I was with someone who is alcoholic , she can always depend on her to throw me a mean zinger, sometime during our exchange,
She has initated a project that would honor my dad, who has passed. I have to look at this ,my gut says no matter what is put together there will be an element of deception !
Depends on the situation for me, but I generally lie in the category of the person who will “pass you the peas, when they think you’re a worm”. For me, the mere act of openly expressing my amputation is a bit hard for me to handle. I do have to say though… if I don’t like you, you won’t be hearing from me nor will I be the person to initiate an engagement. But if you come up to me and start talking I’ll surface interact with you for a brief moment. I look at it as a gentle reminder on why I don’t like you. The person being “amputated” will just never get to that deep spot with me ever… again.
Yes, I’m still processing my relationship with my SIL. I know I’ll never trust her again. Right now, I can’t imagine ever opening up to her at any deep level (I don’t want to waste time with rude ppl). Thanks for that comment. It helps me see what I need to do, too.
<3 glad my comment could help you out <3
Yes, I’m so used to being nice (I’m a Libra), but with Mars in my sign the last few months, I’ve changed somewhat and now I feel like I can roll up my sleeves and duke it out. But, Mars is leaving soon and I’m weighing the options. Wow, I almost feel sorry for Aries ppl that have to deal with Mars all the time. It has been so hard to control the anger when someone crosses the line with me. I see that being pleasant isn’t everything but also being angry isn’t either.
I just stop initiating contact. If they still contact me, I’ll respond. I’ll be like your husband if I have to interact with them. Otherwise, I’ll keep my distance. I just figure sometimes people come around or call when they are in need and I would hate to turn a person away in need because I’ve been hurt. Especially if time has passed. If two hours ago someone did something, well then more than likely I’ll slam the door in his or her face. But if it’s been awhile I forgive. Humans make mistakes.
I talked to a $10 psychic once, for fun mainly, over the phone..She had no idea who I was…The first thing she said was… OMG if someone does or says something that’s completely unacceptable to you, you cut them completely out of your life, one thing!
Yep, guilty as charged…But now, with age, I have developed a small amount of compassion for them, and treat them more like your husband…Which I think is better, because we all need to be a little kinder…
Ran across this https://elsaelsa.com/astrology/betrayal-says-who-does-libra-invite-betrayal/
Interesting! In my personal experience, Libras tend to be somewhat self-righteous…maybe that annoys some folks…
I have Gemini rising and Venus Cap. Scorpio Sun… I find it really conflicting to come to a conclusion of when or how to let someone go. I do eventually hit a wall and my Scorpio and Capricorn dump it like a pile of sh*t. Venus moon, I make tear it from the inside out. Learned to not make it malicious anymore, however. Now I do it with intent and stride. It’s their loss to cross me in the first place bc I know the value, effort, depth and energy I give to my relationships.
I’m actually dealing with this betrayal incident as of today. So thank you for the good timing on this post. Right now I sit in conflict if I don’t say anything and “see what they’ll say” or, call them out on their sh*t and show them how the boss handles business.
Thank you for a great read, Elsa! Again, great timing for my day.
What about betrayals by institutions and traditions? How about when a workplace closes; isn’t that a betrayal? Namely, that which you counted on as your sole livelihood ghosts you? Or how about the Roman Catholic Church scandals–the ultimate betrayer of trust via sexual abuse??
For me I think the challenge with option 2 (Elsa’s husband) would be to keep away true feelings. I just wouldn’t be able to do it. I think this is Sagittarius though, I have Mercury there. The honesty in communication is a must with this. And then I have cardinal Capricorn and Libra – I think these two are very serious about right and wrong, they don’t like to sit on the fence, something in the middle like half-trust won’t do.
He’s got a Scorpio moon. He just withholds. But I hate being disingenuous and will avoid if at all possible. I also feel required to be polite. This combo is horrific if I have to hang around people I don’t like or trust. it’s better for all if I just exit.