“I Wouldn’t Bring A Child Into This World…”

jupiter by johnMy husband and I were talking about people who say they would not bring a child into the world today, because the conditions are not ideal.  He thinks this is a curious statement. I liked his perspective (Jupiter) on it.

He said every person in world today has a root that traces back to the beginning of time.  You simply can’t be alive and have this not be the case.

He pointed out at there had been horrible times throughout history, and these bloodlines survived.

Your ancestors made it through all kinds of horrible crap. So why would you not have a child?

If you scale things like this, it makes it hard not to rethink your logic.

How do you feel about bringing a child into the world at this time? Assuming you’re in a position to do so, what would be gained by ending your bloodline?

43 thoughts on ““I Wouldn’t Bring A Child Into This World…””

  1. I see what your saying. I think a personal sense of mastery/survival can give us hope that our offspring would also survive. There are all kinds of studies measuring empathy and social skills in youth today vs. previous generations. Psychology and other sciences can obviously hype up these studies through statistics. But I wonder if many children are just not taught these skills, because math is soooo much more important. So, although I am more personally weary of environmental changes and natural disasters, the emotional environment needs to be there. On a smaller scale, I can be at a shitty job making way less than I’m worth. But if I enjoy the support network of coworkers, I have more confidence that I can make it through.
    My personal reason for not having children is overpopulation. I never say this to my parent friends, because I’m sure it feels like an attack. But it’s just that my maternal instincts are trumped by my concern for the future.

    1. I get your point-I think the drop in birth rates in many countries is some measure that people instinctively took to protect this planet.

      There is interesting talk -this guy, Aubrey the Grey says that person who will live 1 000 years has already been born. :

      If he is right, then it will mean even less children.

  2. I like the way your husband thinks because I have said those very same words again and again. People have very short memories. Surely WWII was a worse experience than what we’ve experienced in this generation and that was not so very long ago. My least favorite subject EVER…hate it…can’t even believe I’m bringing it up…is “end times”. Living in the Bible Belt as I do, I do a lot of skittering out of the room because that subject comes up fairly often. The bible-thumper will always say this is it, the world is an evil place, it must be da-da- DAH Ennnnd Tiiimmmess! If I have the patience for it at that moment I always ask if they really think that what’s so horrible today was all roses and sunshine for the poor Jews in WWII, for the people dying of bubonic plague, for the slaves and Native Americans in our own country, and at least 10 more examples. Why wasn’t it “end times” then when it was so much worse? It either shuts them up or they ignore me. I have three children and 2 grandchildren and I took fertility drugs to get the first baby and suffered very difficult pregnancies every time so yeah, I’m down with that bringing children into the world thing. I went through hell to get them here. My progeny may be the ones who make it a better place. Trying to tie this into astrology…maybe Saturn in Cappy, 9th house? I’m not sure. Interesting topic!

  3. Well, I think pretty much like your husband. It was much harsher earlier in history, and people had children.
    I find it easier to understand the more personalized reasons for not having children, to the ones that dig into the global conditions. The Earth itself had a few cataclysms, but the human race has managed to survive. I myself have inherited strong both survival & mothering “instincts”, probably because of Taurus Moon in 4th trine Mars in Cappy, and opposing Saturn in Scorpio; my ancestors have been trough LOTS of misfortunes: both of my great-grandfathers from my mother’s side have been in concentration camps; my grandfather was a war orphan, and my grandmother was sent as a servant on the farm when she was 7. But at least, she wasn’t hungry…

  4. Oh, forgot to mention, my grandmother (mama’s side) had 3 children; her mom had 6, 2 of which died during WW2 from starvation and epidemic. It was extremely traumatic for my grandma. That’s where I can agree: one should have as much kids as one can support, but that’s my opinion, based on my experiences and on culture I was raised; in my great-grandmother’s time, it was not uncommon for a child to die when it was little, there was little grievances, and also, the life expectancy was much shorter in general. So I must say that we have much better conditions than they had: at least, we can have a labor in the hospital, not in the barn.

  5. This is what I believe. I find it strange when people say, “this world is not ideal to bring in kids into”, neither was the ice-age, stone-age, dark-ages and any time during wars. Yet, we did.

    I just say to them, maybe your genes/bloodline don’t deserve to be around and let the strong live.

    1. When people confront what is or is not ideal, they are usually reflecting on their own experience and amount of tolerance. Not going to bore you with my childhood hx, but sometimes traumatic events haunt us and/or color our worldview. So, I think you are correct in that some people are just weak, or at least feel that way. I am not telling you anything you don’t already know, but I find what was said about who deserves to live and multiply offensive. I am sorry that people judge you (and others) for this very important life decision. I think it is your right to make the decision that is best for you, and screw the people that try to call you out.

  6. Taking the long view – considering the long term survival of your blood line – verses considering the local view, what it would be like for a child to live a certain kind of life in a particular point in history, are two different ways of thinking about things. I think this topic, especially the local view, also touches on thoughts of giving a child a better life than we, as parents, had, which these days is increasingly rare. I do not think it is absurd to think about the quality of life of the child a person would bring into the world: the opportunities they may have access to, and the realities of the environmental change that is happening at present and will continue into their lifetimes. If the aim is to continue the blood line, that is one thing. But I think a lot of people also see this as a local issue: will I be able to provide a good life for my kid? What will their life look like? Of course it is likely that the human race will survive many more generations, and I’m not particularly stuck on my particular genetic imprint being advanced. I’m not concerned about reproducing in order for the human race to make it through the next ice age: I agree with you that the human race has proved capable of this before, and will again. But again, back to the local perspective: people are struggling to take care of themselves. When they consider the real economics of how to support and provide for a child, which these days is lasting longer and longer into adulthood, its hard to see how it will work out. It is a lot easier to talk about this in the general sense, of “the world being the way it is today,” because that’s a lot easier way to summarize the host of difficult problems facing the current population, for which we have yet to find solutions. Also, consider it from a personal responsibility perspective: lots of people are procreating already, and won’t stop, have an impetus and aren’t interested in considering what may be best for the long term survival of the species. I don’t want to get Malthusian, but we are already strained to feed and provide for the world’s population as it is. I’m not sure thinking like, “I wouldn’t bring a child into the world the way it is” should be discouraged necessarily. Perhaps it is good for the survival of all if some of us choose to go this route.

    When you “scale things like this”, yes, I get your point. But long term scale and local scale are both important measurements. The fact is, we don’t experience the world from the long view of history: we live our lives now, and they are fleetingly short. Considering the quality of life your child may experience in the coming 100 years is not imprudent when considering whether or not to conceive.

  7. This whole concept is based on the assumption that it is better for an individual to not manifest at all than to manifest in bad conditions. This seems very strange to me. It seems like a very presumptuous and over-protective stance. And I mean over-protective in the sense of an over-protective parent who denies their child an experience because they deem it unsafe. This, again, seems so very strange to me. Who are they to decide for someone else what is the better option in such a situation? If you’re going to decide for anybody it should be for yourself. So if you want to go out back and blow your brains out with a shotgun, I would understand. But if you’re going to live on into old age while simultaneously holding up this argument… that just seems highly irrational to me.

    1. The child isn’t born. So there is no stopping them from an experience. The way you put it, they may have 1 child.. but be stopping the other 1000 sperm from having their experiences as well.. ? Your argument.. is sad…

  8. I am glad you brought this up Elsa. I have been thinking on the topic lately, how different its from people living in nature, that today youngsters need even 20 years of education to function in society.
    I have heard this from so many people blaming the ‘system’, where parents ‘outsource’ their children to various institutions and can’t enjoy time spent together.
    And there is this catch-22, where it’s difficult to judge whether to give pleasant and permissive upbringing, spend lot’s of time together, compromising money, the work outside home could bring-or press the kids, so they can do well one day in life.
    My sagittarius-rising partner said he wouldn’t have children, unless he lived in nature, where children could play. My capricorn-rising side said, I wouldn’t have children, unless I had enough money to pay people to take care of them, and put them into good school.

  9. My Mother tells me that from the time I was 5-6 years old I would tell her I wasn’t going to have kids. I’ve never felt this undying need about it. Although I’m the big caretaker of the bunch. It seems rather mundane to me to talk about bloodlines and such, I get it, it’s important, but we are all still connected no matter what. I’m not being pie in the sky but if it’s not a fit, why would you do something that society vehemently tells you that is a major path to fruition? I just turned 42 and I went through the hormonal wanting to have children..but for me, it’s not a fit. As to bringing chillins’ into this world…hell, this place is as messed up as it as ever been and will always be.

  10. I guess my point is …do people really know why they don’t do something. It seems easier to blame it on the state of affairs in the world than to pony up and say …”yeeeahhh, I’m just not feeling it”. Believe me, I get all kinds of judgement and reaction to my saying I just don’t wanna have kids. They’re cute n’ all but I just don’t see the overall fulfillment from that self sacrificing endeavor. Yup, I know, I’m a mutant. I’d rather volunteer at 5 different charities.

  11. I think that attitude stems from their own fear of life more than their concern for the unborn. We had one child, which is what I thought we could afford to raise. We’ve asked him many times since if he’d like a little brother or sister and he adamantly says, “NO!!” We’re a happy little family, ha ha.

    1. I think you are correct in this statement about fear of life, GTO. Never had children, didn’t want them at the time. Now, its too late, and it is a regret. But you’re also right, they’re not for everyone.

  12. I think everyone has a right to decide if they want children or not. I don’t care what the psychology of those is, who don’t want any – though I’m a curious person and interested in people’s thoughts. Not having a child by decision is something not natural for me.

  13. I think people who think the times are not right for having children should most likely not breed at all under any circumstances. They are not parent material they don’t have what it takes to guide children through the tough times, the bad time or even the good times. I’m a parent of 2 natural children and 4 step children. Anytime I have been with someone who has children and I have helped them raise them they become mine by default by that same token mine become his as well. Out of 6 children we now have 11 grand children and one of our daughters has chosen to not become a parent because she is sublucated in every joint in her body she doesn’t want to be come crippled by bearing a child nor does she wish to pass this condition on. Even though we had to trace it back 5 generations. I think her reasoning is sound but her reasons don’t have a thing to do with the times of today.

  14. Definitely not my business, but, I would love to know the cultural backgrounds of all people who posted. I read every comment and enjoyed this entertaining debate. People get so pissed off about this, and now I am so glad that my personal reasoning for not having children is safely kept in the closet! I think the slandering is pretty immature and defensive, and if someone has criticized you for having had children that is also very messed up.

  15. Sounds like fear to me. Fear of what this world is or would do to a child doesn’t strike me as unreasonable if you watch the evening news. But it is still fear nonetheless, something our culture seems to love lately.

    That said I’ve read some fascinating stuff on why women have more or less children and that there is a strong correllation between the legal security, education and financial security a society provides for a woman in older age and the number of children she has. If she’s not got anything from society, no ability to work outside the house, no social security she has more and if she has something provided by society that will care for her or some ability to care for herself then fewer children. The numbers I saw specifically looked from asia, across the middle east (where some countries are very restrictive for women education/work) to africa, and the western world. I found the concept fascinating to say the least.

  16. Going over history, there have been all different kinds of problems. But today, there are over 7 Billion people on this planet. How many can the planet support?

    Without my children I am not sure what kind of life I would have. It would be void of many things I truly adore. Still, if I could go back in time I would chose to be childless. Why? Because I do love them and I don’t think moving forward (in this country at least) they will be able to do more than struggle. I love my children more than anything. I am sure without them there would probably be no me….or a shell or shadow of me. But……

    I did them no favor by putting them here.

    Over 7 Billion people. We have never had over 7 Billion people living on this planet before. The Ocean, fresh water and food supply…..don’t get me started. How much can the earth take?

    Having a child should be a very personal decision based on whether one can afford to have a child. Too many children are already here that on one wants. If a person claims they don’t want children I respect that decision because a child is the last thing you should have if you don’t want it.

    When asked by my children whether they should have children my response was ….if you have to ask, then the answer is NO.

  17. I keep questioning the state of this world- mostly environment, but that is not the reason I fear bringing a child into this world. I am afraid due to my own childhood traumas. Despite being extremely loving and sacrificing mother, my mother still could not protect me or realise what I was going through. My abuse scarred me forever and I have never really thought that I would be able to do enough justice as a parent bringing a child into this world, especially if it’s a girl. I do not think I am capable of protecting her from the monsters that this world is full of

  18. The souls u bring into this world…i don’t know if they wana come or not…but i didn’t wanted to come and for many years i told mom that she was selfish to bring me into this world. Maybe the souls i would bring here on earth won’t wana be here when they realise where they ended up. And why would i gave birth to babies which if they r lucky become adults when i don’t feel i can be a good guide for them, when i realise i still have a long way to go….what’s the purpose fo beeing here on this earth…just to live, because as i see it we cannot control anything anyone…I don’t see i point in having other souls coming here cause in the end we all die….we live to die…nobody knows if there is something more…many wants it to be more…but nobody came back to say it is more…we r just suposing…so to give birth so u can die …seems a little bit cinic to me.

  19. 7 billion people = resources? then you have full access to birth control + education = smaller family; a long time ago children were just little adults and/or people to help you with the farming/fishing/fighting to survive; the concept of “childhood” didn’t exist as it is today, so it is a totally different matter, if you want to have CHILDREN; then there is the globalization & traveling, so now you’re (hopefully) aware of other countries, politics, environment on the whole planet too. problems all around you, all the time, 24/7, on a global scale. then, there will be nothing left when the next world war starts, because it won’t be human against human, but chemicals/atomic bombs/machines. yeah who wouldn’t want to make a baby right away. *sigh*

  20. I’ve thought about this a great deal. This was once my justification for not having kids, and as I grew older I came to the realization that my aversion to procreating had nothing to do with how shitty the world seemed to be. I just didn’t want to be a parent. Plain and simple. Not everyone is meant to be. I’ve never felt that my life would be better by having offspring and I know that I feel plenty fulfilled through my personal achievements and creative endeavors.

    I have a packed 5th house (with Jupiter there as well) so this may be puzzling to some (it puzzled me once, too). But I’ve come to see that the 5th house represents creativity on all levels, not just the creation of another human being.

  21. Well…who says my bloodline (or anyone else’s most of the time) is that spectacular that it must be preserved? We’ve got a lot of people on the planet, someone else can probably fill in for those who don’t breed.

    Here’s the thing about sayings like this: there is nobody out there who desperately wants babies with all of their heart and soul who won’t have them because of overpopulation, not being able to afford them, blah blah whatever. Maaaaaaaaaybe if they had a 100% inheritable fatal disease, they MIGHT hold off…but a lot of people still wouldn’t. If someone wants a baby, they won’t be stopped because of reasons like this. That’s part of why we have so many teen moms and poor moms–nothing will stop people who want the babies.

    The people who are stopped? Odds are they probably don’t really really want a baby, or at least don’t feel strongly enough about it to want to bother. It’s folks like me who say things like this in hopes that that will count as a “good enough” explanation to get people off our backs for not having them. This is not to say the reasons are not good, but with humans, emotion and wanting seem to trump logic every single time.

  22. In my case, I simply wouldn’t have the energy or the self-sacrifice to be a parent (I see the sacrifices my parents have made…). I know quite a few successful parents, but I wouldn’t have the money, the time, the optimism, the inclination, or the energy to do it. My priority in this lifetime is to develop a moral compass, and to be a great worker with a bunch of hobbies. I am more optimistic than a few years ago, but I’d have a hard time explaining the world to a child.
    I’m not worried about my bloodline, especially since other siblings have continued it, and I know with each incarnation, I change bloodlines, and life purpose.

  23. My fiance and I are planning to have one child after we marry. I’m more worried about my ability to provide financially/emotionally for the child than I am about whether I’m overpopulating the planet or bringing another human being into Uranus/Pluto hell.
    I was born in the ’70’s to parents who had nothing to their name. We were on welfare and it was a rough start to life. Two years later they had another one. But years later life improved as Mom remarried and my parents’ living standard went steadily up.
    Other people can make the decision to save the earth or avoid putting a new human being through the socioeconomic craphole that we’re all enduring today. As long as no one decides that *I* should not put one here, that’s fine.

  24. My husband says that ALL the time, “why would you want to bring a child into this world, it’s too dangerous..blah blah blah”. I’m with your husband…that’s common sense. The world has always been brutal and always will be.

  25. I would not choose to bring a child into this world if I were young, knowing what I know now, because I can think of no worse torment for a parent than to have to witness one’s offspring go through suffering and feel utterly powerless to help.
    Where mankind is headed , ( observing over past decades, the unmistakable trends) the chances of that occurring are going to increase multifold in coming years. Even if I had never read about “the Tribulation” in the Bible, I would still be able to see all the signs and connect the dots, and foretell what’s coming. Reading about it in the Bible just makes it more “spooky”… and real.

  26. Cool blog idea Elsa. Well ideally, like you said given I could have or afford I would probably adopt. But not solo. I can’t myself. Others can, plenty can. Just not myself I know it. I need support. But I will say that if in the ideal case I did have a SO and adopted , I would leave a legacy for them to find their calling, love of G-d, and service in any way they can. If they don’t I know or pray by my example they’d come around to it with age. And of course, I would wish they joy/happiness every day and give them a good environment to be raised in. If SO doesn’t understand a good environment, then bye bye! I’d make sure education is reachable and may they leave the nest and prosper!

  27. Ok, I noticed that I mentioned adoption but this was about procreation. Procreation is unnecessary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are soooooooooooo mmmannnnnyyyy children who need homes and people are overpopulating. We need to stop this.. I would adopt a foreign child , and a US one if I could. 3 max. Just saying. Not sure if its possible I need money and security. Won’t do it without either, its just too stressful for me and stupid to not to , plus SO need be there. Ricky Martin did adopt children by himself kudos to him but he is super wealthy. Anyway.

  28. A few people have mentioned two things that I think are important to this discussion: (1) people had children during hard times in the past because there was no access to birth control, children were seen as a “given” if you were married, they helped with the farm/family business/fishing and what have you; and (2) pre-1980’s (maybe even later) problems endured by the few were not shared by the many. There was no instant media to tell us what was going on moment by moment during genocides, news of the plague hardly reached anyone outside of Europe, we did not have vast amounts of statistical information about the world’s population and there certainly wasn’t the giant global environmental threat looming. So, having children in earlier “bad times” happened in an entirely different social context. Now that we are bombarded daily with information about global warming/criminals the world over/acts of terror/epidemic dseases etc etc it makes sense that one might pause for thought prior to having a child. I had mine anyway. I don’t know how I’m going to explain the world to him, but I’ll try. I believe in the notion of bloodlines continuing. Furthermore, I believe that my child will adapt to whatever world he encounters. If he has to struggle, so be it. Never in Western history have people had so much and felt so unfulfilled. I struggled and I was the better for it. We all have our little patch of karma to clean up, this will be no different for him than it was for me. That said I have no idea why people get up in other peoples’ business for not wanting children. I never wanted children for 40 years and when I had mine, it worked out great but oh my goodness…. it’s certainly nothing I would wish on someone who didn’t have the desire. More power to you for knowing your own needs and capacities! Children are freaking hard work 🙂

  29. Ok, so that picture is just disturbing. 🙂 I have nothing in my 5th house, so maybe this explains it, but I’ve never wanted to ‘have’ a child. I’ve always wanted to adopt. I’m looking at fostering now. I don’t have anything in the 11th either, so who knows. I have no attachment to bloodlines. I really wish I understood the connection, since it’s the dominant force in life, by far.

  30. Avatar

    I have never wanted children and it has nothing to do with global conditions. It’s because I don’t want them. Period.

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    I’m not special for not wanting kids, and other people are not special or superior for wanting and having them, as much as they might like to pretend they are to handle their fear that maybe the grass really is greener on the other side. No one has the default moral high ground here.

  32. I don’t think we should continue to procreate. I haven’t myself for a variety of reasons, but perhaps the most important one was that I never felt the urge. Not strong enough anyway. The truth is I could never think of a good reason to have them but found plenty of good reasons NOT to. In my opinion humans are a ‘rogue species’ that will destroy the environment more out of the short-sigtedness and greed than evil intent. We will destroy this planet. We’re well on the way; but it doesn’t just stop at that: human’s hurt each other; it’s one of the thingst we seem to do best. We like to think of ourselves as the superior species but without empathy and imagination – and you can’t have one without the other – which few have, how can we claim to be the superior species? We shit in our own nests; we hurt each other for sport; many abandon/neglect/abuse offspring; few possess the insight to choose suitable partners and so suffer for that along with their children. Mental illness is overtaking huge swathes of the population; capitalism is devouring itself and all the signs are there that it’s broken, along with democracy, which seems to have run its course, but greater minds than mine haven’t been able to come up with a better alternative. We refuse to acknowledge our culpability because it hurts to admit that our greed is reprehensible; we’d rather watch our fellow human beings fall by the wayside than give up some of what we’ve accrued and don’t deserve. We’d rather push the blame on mental illness for the new phenomenon of socially destructive acts such as mass murder, as if that were the cause and not merely the symptom of a greater malaise: a malaise that makes some people go mad with its inherent injustices. An example of the selfishness of the haves: Bushfires in Australia a few years ago wiped out entire suburbs. At the time, Nicole Kidman (an Australian) and Keith Urban had been reported to have a combined wealth of $850m. Holidaying in Australia at the time, they could only find it in their hearts to donate $200,000 of their $850m – yes folks, you read right -to help their fellow Australians who’d lost everything but the shirt on their backs. This is what they gave to their homeless countrymen and woman who helped make them rich. Several years ago Cate Blanchette, another Australian, spent $37m renovating her Sydney home. She describes herself as a socialist. Perhaps they do give to charity, but the bottom line is that they don’t deserve the kind of money they’re making: they don’t save lives; they haven’t carried out important research; they haven’t written great novels; they’re just performing artists, the’re not creative artists – without whom they’re nothing – who are monstrously overpaid and after a while they come to think they deserve that kind of money. as many others do, from corporate types to football players. The vast majority of people work their arses off to make the world go round. Millions of people are living on the breadline, homeless, raising children in ghettos, selling drugs etc. just to get by, while they revel in their luxury, flaunting their wealth, adding insult to injury. They’re accounts should be frozen and the government should re-distribute that unearned wealth to make a better, fairer society that fosters unity not competitiveness and selfishness that in turn fosters resentment and revenge. But these obscenely wealthy people will never part with their money of their own volition, not even if their fellow human beings were starving in the streets and that day will surely come. Given all of the above, it seems to me that the only noble thing to do is to admit defeat and allow ourselves to die out; of our own volition; not wait for a catastropy to do it for us but make the sane, noble and obvious choice. We’ve had a pretty good run.

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