Dear Elsa,
I am involved with a married man who has children.
I believe that he loves me, and I certainly love him. This is a deep and significant connection unrivaled by my previous relationships. That said, as a result of this relationship both of us have lost weight, and our performances in our respective professions have also suffered significantly. We break up and get together over and over in an endless cycle. His main concern is his children, who he understandably does not wish to disadvantage or spend less time with.
We both desire a legitimate relationship, but if this is not to be, I am unsure as to the appropriate course of action to take. It is most certainly not in my nature to cut all contact, which we have both attempted with enormous failure. That being said, I can’t wait forever until we crash and burn (which seems likely to me, the way it is going).
I love him, what should I do?
Venus in Pisces
Dear Venus,
With all due respect, you do not sound as if you are in love. You sound as if you are addicted and in the denial that goes hand in hand with that. Here is a fact:
When a person is good for you and a relationship healthy, you do not lose weight and become disabled on the job. It’s exactly the opposite. A good relationship feeds you like water and nutrients to a plant… to which you respond with vigor.
And though I believe your attachment to this man is “unrivalled’, all that really means is you are more addicted than you have ever been before. And you’re twenty, you know. You will probably be thirty, forty, fifty and sixty. And you’re going to meet scads of men – so stop telling yourself this guy is the be all end all. Because who is he really?
He is someone who cheats on his wife and lies to his family! To be honest, he sounds like a baby-man to me. He is not concerned with his children! He is concerned with himself. He’s not concerned with you either. That’s a head fake. What he’s concerned with is his own needs, and he is willing to hang your life up like this to have them serviced. He’s willing to have you writhe around at night missing him while he sleeps with another woman. And you’re willing to allow it!
You’re akin to a heroin addict with this guy, you know. Oh God. My body is skinny. I can’t work! I am emaciated on this drug and probably nothing good can come of it, but I guess I’ll stick this needle in my arm one more time and see if that helps…
Obviously, you need to put the needle down. Get support wherever you can. Good luck.
RIGHT ON. And I write that as someone who’s used love as an addictive mechanism. I’m going to therapy for it too. So, listen to Elsa, baby sister. I wish someone had told me that when I was 20 instead of having to kick the habit at 36.
Been there! I’ve got Venus & a bunch of other stuff in the 12th, so I tend to do the exact same thing, and yes, it will eventually crash & burn. Listen to Elsa, she knows what she’s talking about.
Venus in 12th, squared by Pluto & also by Moon in Pisces…do I know how to be addicted in love? Mmm hmmm. Love is the end-all be-all, isn’t it? It totally consumes us. BUT…guess what? Pisces can transcend. Yup. Like Marly, it took until my 30s to recognise my unhealthier patterns (fall in love until I obliterated myself in it). And guess what? It was the married man I was dating (he was separated at the time) who gave me the openning to learn how to transcend. When his wife decided they should reconcile, he decided he owed it to her & their child to try. Never mind that he & I were quite happy with each other, he *wasn’t* actually free. So I did what I hadn’t done in previous times (which was to sulk and go into depression over the “could have been–if only”)…that time, because I actually DID love him, I let go. I let go as gently and gracefully as I could and sent my love with him. Very, VERY hard. But if it truly is love, Pisces (and 12th house) Venus is more than capable of drawing on their higher sense and find the real meaning of letting a soul be who they are and do what they need for themselves and letting it unfold without hindrance or hovering.
That was six years ago. After three more years of trying, he ended up divorcing his wife of a decade. Again, I let him be where he needed to be, which was still not with me. He needed to heal, and find his new direction, and it needed to come from within himself. And throughout this process contact was never fully cut but kept very minimal and totally neutral. That’s what letting go means–care enough to stay receptive and supportive while remaining detached from any particular outcome.
We’re back together again–his choice. We take it day by day, and cut out the expectations best we can. We are quite happy just letting it happen. And if he stops being happy or needs to go for another reason on another day? Well, my love will go with him again, even as it stays with me as I move on. And btw, choosing this experience has helped my own life has improve and love now flows more freely through it than ever before.
Reach for it, Pisces. Listen to Elsa, she’s right–kick the addiction, and find the *real* love in your heart. It might take a very long time, but you can turn this unhappy ending into a very pleasing beginning if you choose this opportunity. This really can happen if you let it!
Tinkerer, your comment is very inspiring. I too have a 12 house venus squared by pluto, and have been going through the process of trying to transcend the addiction and turn it into unconditional love. It’s extremely hard…it requires divine love, that I think only venus in pisces or 12 house are able to experience.
Being able to do this is to truely love. The esoteric ruler of Libra is Uranus, by the way. I think this means on the soul level love is uranian = free
Here are a few quotes I find interesting:
To fall in love is to create a religion that has a falible God – Jorge Luis Borge
There is a portuguese proverb that says something like this: if you love a bird, set it free and if it comes back it is yours forever.
I think this is the key for people suffering from love and adicton, to see it as an oportunity to transcend the adiction and be divine. It is rewarding, much more than other kinds of love…and it’s a good challenge for people who are working on being spiritually aware.
“Venus in 12th, squared by Pluto & also by Moon in Pisces…do I know how to be addicted in love? Mmm hmmm. Love is the end-all be-all, isn’t it? It totally consumes us. BUT…guess what? Pisces can transcend.”
Tinkerer, this is my configuration too! Except that Venus is also squared Jupiter and Uranus. I’m so glad to read a happy ending from someone similar!! There have been so many times in which I thought that I might as well forget love altogether–it was too painful and destructive. Thanks for your story!
So many of the ladies (typically with some planets in Pisces) falling in love with married men on here! And twenty! I’m twenty (almost)! I have a Pisces friend who, by no willing of her own, fell in love with a guy who is her friend and would never feel the same way about her. This has happened to her before, prolonged falling in love with men that won’t feel the same way about her. And she hurts to see them with their girlfriends and keeps hope, but I know it won’t happen. I thought she made the guy up, you know, how so many of the Pisces ladies on here paint themselves a guy, she talks relationship lingo about him, but I don’t know because her head seems screwed on straight. You guys know what I mean?
On Nodeorama there’s a thread called Venus in the 12th house. None of the comments there have been as inspiring as those of Tinkerer and Viviana. I think a lot of us posters there are having a hard time with that configuration. You ladies should stop by and inject some positive insights about how to transcend that.
Happy ending? More like a new journey, instead of treading the same path I’d worn major ruts in! And I must admit, despite how hard it is some days to continue keep some sense of detachment (about everything in life!), I’m glad I’ve been so far able to resist falling back into old patterns because it IS a nicer way to go.
I think a lot of it boils downs to: ditch the drama, already, or you’ll never see how much more is there and reap the rewards!
Marly, yes, I’ve also got Uranus (with Pluto) in that t-square. Lovely fun, isn’t it? All sorts of energies playing tug-o-war, very easy to wind up feeling like a casualty!
Here’s a thought, tho’: do our charts reflect who we are, or what we want to learn to be? Maybe both…if a person has Venus in 12th or Pisces, does that mean they are conditioned to suffer unrequited love and painful relationships, or that they will be inclined to put themselves in those types of situations because that is where they will have opportunity to climb into the deeper expression of the placement and thus experience transcendance of love?
Dani, do you think your friend is really all that unwilling? Or could it be she is subconsciously seeking?
Maybe that is the question our young poster ought to be asking. Instead of, “what should I do?” how about, “what does my true self want to learn and experience, and is this serving that?” I suspect the answer would be, “no!”, and hopefully she has the courage to quit cold turkey and turn herself around!
This man is only into hisself and you are hurting his family.He is married… find a single guy there are tons!How do you not know he wouldnt do it to you as well??
Great questions, tinkerer! 🙂
Well, this issue of falling in love with a married man because of a venus in the 12th is very interesting. For some reason, Venus in the 12th points to secret love relationships. Pluto aspects point towards obsession. And so we must define addiction, because seems to me Tinkerer does not accept her addiction.
Please read the following to determine if you are really addicted.
Signs and Characteristics of Love Addiction:
1. Lack of nurturing and attention when young
2. Feeling isolated, detached from parents and family
3. Compartmentalization of relationships from other areas of life
4. Outer facade of “having it all together” to hide internal disintegration
5. Mistake intensity for intimacy (drama driven relationships)
6. Hidden Pain
7. Seek to avoid rejection and abandonment at any cost
8. Afraid to trust anyone in a relationship
9. Inner rage over lack of nurturing, early abandonment
10. Depressed
11. Highly manipulative and controlling of others
12. Perceive attraction, attachment, and sex as basic human needs, on a par with food and water
13. Sense of worthlessness without a relationship or partner
14. Feelings that a relationship makes one whole, or more of a man or woman
15. Escalating tolerance for high-risk behavior
16. Intense need to control self, others, circumstances
17. Presence of other addictive or compulsive problems
18. Insatiable appetite in area of difficulty (sex, love or attachment / need.)
bullet Using others, sex & relationships to alter mood or relieve emotional pain
19. Continual questioning of values and lifestyle
20. Driven, desperate, frantic personality
21. Confusion of sexual attraction with love (“Love” at first sight.)
22. Tendency to trade sexual activity for “love” or attachment
23. Existence of a secret “double life”
24. Refusal to acknowledge existence of problem
25. Defining out-of-control behavior as normal
26. Defining “wants” as “needs”
27. Tendency to leave one relationship for another. (Inability to be without a relationship.)
28. Attempts to replace lost relationships with a new one immediately
Many of these symptoms are also elements of codependency and intimacy dsyfunctions resulting from childhood abandonment, emotional and / or sexual abuse. For this reason treatment and therapy for Love Addiction often includes trauma recovery work. Read what others have to say about love addiction.
If the things in the list above sound familiar to you I highly recommend Pia Melody’s book Facing Love Addiction.
Love addiction responds to treatment and / or therapy with a practitioner knowledgeable in its effects and origins. Several treatment centers now offer Love Addiction treatment. A 12 step program called SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) can also be helpful.
My experience as an attorney for the past 12 years is that when a man falls in love with a woman and he is married he moves in with her in a period of 3 months and begins divorce proceedings.
As soon as times passes by and he mentions his children, the situation is he looking out for his needs and not for the children‚
I don’t think that we can determine whether or not someone has an addiction by reading their online posts. Only professionals can really assess that. Tinkerer’s boyfriend is no longer married and their relationship ended when he decided to return to his wife after his separation. Only after some years passed and he decided to divorce his wife, did he reestablish a connection with Tinkerer. In the meantime, Tinkerer may or may not have coped with her issues. Either way she does not say and it’s not our place to judge whether she’s addicted or not.
I think you may have meant well, Ana, but it is hihgly inappropriate to analyze someone via the internet.
As a sidenote: my addictive love relationships never occurred with married men. Just to clarify: Adulterous or even hidden relationships are not the only hallmark of addictive love issues. My compulsive relationship patterns fall/fell within the parameters of that list that Ana posted and while I identified with them when I read them the first time some months ago, it is wise to consult a therapist or professional for further clarification.
Adultery is wrong no matter what the situation just look in any bible.
I have to agree with Ana, I read Tinkerer’s post and shook my head in disbelief at the ending…she talks about transcending love but in way is she doing that…to set love free means to do exactly that..let go fully, not still in contact, no matter how much you fool yourself into thinking it’s neutral….
and then to read we are back together – his choice…? WTF??? ah, it’s your life not his…? And if he needs to move on…?? wot you mean have another affair…..goodness girl, wake up and smell the coffee and choose a healthy relationship…
Take a nice guy with a stellium in 12th pisces, neptune conjuct venus and chiron, these two conjuct sun. All the bunch nicely opposed by mars, pluto and uranus in 6th virgo…
Just say that I was the married one,had an awful time, and I‚
OOps,correction, where I said “neptune conjunct..” should say “SATURN conjucnct venus and chiron”