“God has given you one face, and you make yourself another.”
–William Shakespeare
Self aggrandizement and vanity are not Narcissism. To understand the reality of Narcissism you must understand its root, the rejection of the true self. When Narcissus looked in the pool and fell in thrall with his reflection this was not self-love. To understand this archetypal myth one must understand the nature of mirrored reflection. The reflection is not the thing.
Narcissus is not a tale of self-love; it is a tale of self-rejection. Narcissus “fell in love” with his false-self reflection. The reason he rejected real-life suitors is that he rejected his real self in favor of a non-real self. A reflection is shallow. It has no substance and therefore cannot love. True Narcissism is the early rejection of the true self in favor of a made-up self.
There is no self-love in Narcissism; there is only aggrandizement and vanity of the false-self, the image they have chosen to embrace over who they really are. Over time when the connection to the false self is solidified the connection to the real self is lost. The reason Narcissism is so impossible to treat is that over time so much of a person’s energy has been spent in creating and upholding the false self that the real self has fallen so far behind in development that it is no longer a viable option.
Now here’s how to parse this astrologically. Consider the person as a metaphorical car. The true self is the driver. The false self is the back seat driver. The true self embodies all the energies of the natal chart, the driver. Consider the back seat driver to have a made up chart, one that has been picked out of the air, not a real set of energies that can be accessed. The driver takes the car out based on the very real energies in their natal chart and transits that chart experiences, but it is the back seat driver that gets out of the car at the destination and interacts.
There are no chart placements or aspects that spell out narcissism. There are, however, challenging aspects that can result in the condition if not well-met. In sign quincunxes between Pluto or Chiron and personal planets are ripe for this challenge. That does not mean the person will become a narcissist. What it means is that they are faced with the challenge of integrating their shadow or damage with who they are truly born to be. Other challenges to the natal chart with these planets can, I suspect, also result in narcissism when the energy is not resolved, but the quincunx is the most difficult to integrate.
One way to spot a narcissist is through the chart. Are they expressing the placement of their personal planets or something else? Someone who is expressing a personal planet in that placement’s negative energy is not a narcissist. They’re just an asshole.
To be a whole person you don’t have to like yourself or even be likable; you just have to BE yourself. Learning to like yourself just makes it all work better.
Do you have narcissists in your life? What aspects do you think are the culprit?
Oh wow! This is such a great explanation of Narcissism. I have one in my life and it is so difficult to explain, you’ve summed it up beautifully, thank you. I don’t know the chart placements of this person, so I can’t help there.
Great, great post. Glad to see you take on this topic. You’re an expert! 🙂
— The reason Narcissism is so impossible to treat is that over time so much of a person’s energy has been spent in creating and upholding the false self that the real self has fallen so far behind in development that it is no longer a viable option.
That is the most terrifying description of Narcissism I’ve read to date.
thank you, yolanda_sky and Elsa! Rachel, I suspect that narcissism, like most things, occurs on a continuum. narcissistic up to full-blown intractable Narcissism. I’m not sure where on the scale it moves into the realm of the irresolvable. I think one reason narcissists are rarely helped is that even where the resolution is possible the actual treatment would cause more pain than the person is willing to take on.
narcissism= being me is too painful.
interacting with a narcissist is like interacting with the ventriloquist’s dummy… only to the extent of it being like a horror movie where it seems to move around and talk on its own.
ventriloquists’ dummies are creeeepy.
I think this has got to be one of the best explanations of Narcissism I’ve read yet. One of my former collegiate friends was a narcissist. As the years progressed it really became quite pronounced. To this day I don’t believe she has many friends. If I remember correctly, she was a Leo, rising Cancer. Another narcissist I know is a Leo, rising Libra.
I am speechless, Satori and I totally concur. Frog x
Wow, this is pretty true..
I don’t know if I was ever full on Nassasitic. However self hatered growing up was my tune.
When I first learned about Saggitarius as a Sun Sign, I didn’t think it sounded like who I wanted to become, I didn’t like Sagittarians.
When I learned about Astrology charts, I REALLY didn’t like my first house venus-pluto conjunction, or my planets in pisces. I really felt that my own chart was my down-fall, the energy keep me back from ever achieving my goals.
I only went to a therapist for like 4 months, and we never even borached the topic of Narassitic trends… All lot of it was because of my then ex-boyfriend still living with me, and my family.
However I cut off ties with my family after that, and I don’t stay with people who dont comprimise with me, or try to change core things aobut me that who I am…. I am very much in touch with all my Sagg, Pisces, and Scorpio energy, and have released the more I work towards my Sagg expresstion, the happier and stable I come.
I also love myself, which is a new experience.
In some ways, this could describe anyone with an anxiety disorder I have Chiron conjunct the sun, ceres and Mercury, and it widely opposes Uranus.
In Riding Between the Worlds, the author talks about the False Self vs the Real Self. I fluctuate between the two. Except the False Self is the scared me, and I liked my real self.
How interesting! Its good to know I’m probably just an asshole jk Wonderful topic!
Excellent post… you explained this so well.. thank you Satori.
In the book I mentioned, the False Self was what others had told someone they should be. (sorry for the extra comment – I wish we could edit.)
Excellent explanation! There are more narcissists out there than people think….until you get to know them really well, then the teeth come out and its a painful thing to be sucked into their world, and they are so charming that they can easily do it. And then the victims wonder why they feel so confused and bad about themselves…its because the narcissist very cleverly attempts to make his victims feel that way, so that he can feel better about himself. Its an awful thing to experience….and thankfully I was able to extricate myself from the clutches of one. I read every book I could get my hands on about the subject, and Satori summarized it all beautifully.
Excellent post! Our ex-business partner was a true Narcissist, unfortunately we didn’t find out until we were embroiled in an ugly buiness divorce. We sold our 1/2 of the company to him but it was so much more painful than it should’ve been. He fits the psychological profile to a T; abandoned by his father at 5, risk taking hobbies, etc. He is a classic case – his wife is another one of his victims who’ve confirmed this.
I’ve stayed away from his energy for so long but this is is very intriguing & I may have to look at his chart.
These are VERY SCARY individuals & I think before anyone goes into business w/ someone one a large scale they should do some psychological testing done for compability & more important “discovery.
Google Narcissitic Personality Disorder & you’ll be very afraid of these people & now this info adds to the evidence.
Barbara GOOD FOR YOU, I’m glad you got away from this horrible situation. You completely understand they “help” people then when the person is over a barrell they basically blackmail them into doing things for the narcissits benefit – I have tons of these stories. My heart rate just went up thinking about this situation.
Great Stuff Satori!
DAMNIT! It at my post! It was probably too long!! I hate this!
Our ex-business partner was one, he fit the personality profile to a T. Google Narcissistic Personality Disorder & it’s amazing what these people are capable of. Ugly, DANGEROUS people.
I don’t know what his chart looks like & I don’t give a shit – I stay away from that energy as much as possible!
Good stuff Satori & if he were still in our lives I would definately have you look at how we could extract him from our lives; however, our lawyers did this a few years ago. Expenseive, ugly & F***ing painful!
You have really nailed it! I’ve seen it happen and progress over time very closely. The false self gets stronger and stronger and the real self gets suffocated until in the end, it’s gone. The narcissist can’t access it any more. Many people get it wrong, they do think it’s about self-love. But with a narcissist, there is no real self. It’s very scary to witness it happen and it’s very hard to get out of the life of such a person. Gives me the chills just thinking about it.
Barbara, good for you & if anyone thinks they have a Narcissist in their lives – DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT & GET OUT!
Satori, I can’t tell you how great this post is and could easily save someone before there lives are put at risk on many levels.
Not a lot of compassion out there for the poor sods who get lumbered with this complex! And some confusion possibly with the sociopath archetype? Anyway, I struggle daily to accept and love my real self. The vulnerability involved is very testing. Luckily the day is only so long. X
p.s. Just checked – distressingly i have natal Pluto quincunx Sun and Venus quincunx Pluto
So Good Satori!
Thanks for your insight.
Your writing is awesome.
Kind of scary. I could see myself being a narcissist, except it takes such a huge amount of energy to build a false self and support it.
I agree with others that its an excellent explanation !! Thank you!
As the child of a narcissist, I salute you. Best explanation yet. Thank you Satori
Not only do they not love themselves, they lack any capacity to love anyone else in a real way. I think it’s very, very sad. How awful to live in such a superficial relationship to everything. Seems like meaningless-ness and a waste ~ I have struggled with this through my husband’s parents and, after 10 years have completely cut off any interaction. He is in complete denial so I salute any child of a narcissist, it takes real courage to admit what is truly going on and the lack of love is just agonizing.
Great post Satori!
Thank you for the lightbulb moment. The ex beau now makes sense.
Satori–
I am a child of a parent w/ destructive narcissistic personality disorder. I didn’t realize it until I was in late middle age; then read every book available on the topic. I agree with others that your post is a brilliant explanation. You obviously have some deep familiarity with this topic, too. I am struck by the lack of compassion for people with this tragic disorder–it is, after all, a mental illness. It is very sad for all involved.
This post resonates.
I hope to remember your post when next in the future I’m struggling with my own mental health issues. Thank you.
I missed this somehow the first time. Thank you, Satori, My mother is a narcissist. My psychologist has helped me see the truth. It’s been extraordinary difficult to get to this point. I look forward to reading more what you have to say on the subject <3
Those with Neptune Venus natally in difficult aspect should at least be considered a possibilty along with Mars/Aries placements. I have seen this pattern for years
Venus in Aquarius opposite a Pluto/Moon conjunction in Leo. Venus in the 7th, Pluto and the Moon in the 1st, close to the Ascendant. Ex partner. Phew. Glad I got out.
Thank you Satori. I believe my mother is also a narcissist. She has a few different personas (the serious Saturn type and the big mouth larger-than-life Sag type) — rarely does she seem to be herself.
Mom has Venus square Pluto and Venus conjunct Uranus in Taurus in the 1st house and Moon conjunct Neptune – all natal. She also has Mercury conjunct ascendant and Mars in her 1st house, too. On her bad mood days, she’ll treat me like I’m worthless crap but most of the time she just wants control. She’s also Aries Sun, Virgo Moon and disagrees with me on most topics so she can either be the victor or the victim. Everyone thinks she’s normal on the outside and it’s really hard accepting the fact that your mother can’t relate to you, but it’s better to know the truth than to continue with nonsense.
I loved this post Satori. Maybe narcissism is a survival construct?
Aren’t quincunxes involved in YODS? two of them double teaming the point of interest where the finger is pointing? Like a transformation that is suppose to take place but is resisted to the point of neurosis..
I think narcissism is meted out through several placements and patterns, not just one aspect.
I know a hard-core narcissist, whose chart has 5 planets in the first house, including the NN. Ruler Mars is in Pisces, wherein he gives people the slip often (but also feels so fundamentally unsure of himself)
Then he’s got Pluto (Can)/Uranus (Ari) squared (1930s baby), along with Jupiter in the mix, making a natal T-square.
Finally, Chiron is hurting in the 4th house of family, and his Lilith is on his 7th house cusp.
Again, it’s the whole chart that bespeaks his narcissism… He’s very big on going his own way, doing his own thing, and demanding that others do as well (though at this point in his life, his 80s, he’s pretty sad and lonely, despite being married).
What about Donald Trump (sorry, Republicans)? He’s most definitely a narcissist, and has no earth planets, Mars on his Asc, and a huge Jupiter/Gemini signature, mini-stelliums in each, I think?
I think narcissism is all about an abundance of Mars energy, coupled with some other hard-core, selfish signatures… Kanye West has the same.
I have a yod with Moon(Pisces) quincunx Pluto and then Moon quincunx Saturn, I also share an exact birthday with Kanye West. ? Except I’m a Taurus ASC, not sure if the Cancer ASC I saw for him is correct?
Anyway, I’m pretty sure I can feel a similar energy to what is described here come up sometimes but I’m pretty sure I’m aware of it? and whenever it does show up, I get pretty disgusted with myself and over compensate I think to the other side of self hate?
It’s a bit frustrating bc the Pisces Moon also squares my Gem Jupiter/Sun (ego) and Sag Neptune (illusion, spirituality).
How about factoring in asteroid Narcissus (#37117) in a chart? In my mother’s chart, her natal asteroid Narcissus is conjunct my 7H Virgo Pluto. This asteroid triggers my natal Pluto/Moon/Mars T-square. ‘Nuff said.
My poor mother was probably born illegitimate. She was placed in a Catholic orphanage at birth, where, abused by the nuns and neglected to a point where she became so ill she nearly died. She had to fight to survive. At age five her mother appeared with a man who was introduced as her father. My mother had never seen either one before. They took her home and her ‘father’ regularly beat her, although her was kind to his wife and subsequent children. As you can imagine, by then my mother had developed some powerful emotional and mental survival skills. She knew herself well enough to know she did not want to marry or have a family – she wanted to be a businesswoman – but having been born in the 1920s no such option was available. Too bad – she would’ve made a killer CEO or politician! Instead she married and had five children, and the damage she did to all of us has had powerful repercussions that continue to destroy the lives of her surviving children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
She was a textbook example of Extreme Narcissistic Personality Disorder, her behaviour often indistinguishable from that of a sociopath. She was born on March 20th around 7am. Her chart perfectly mirrors her life: Sun Conjunct Uranus 0 degrees in the 12th (together with Mercury Conjunct Jupiter), Pluto in Cancer in the 4th directly opposing her MC in Capricorn, Libra Moon Opposition Venus, 7th House Moon Square Pluto in Cancer, Chiron Opposition Moon, Sun Square North Node, Sun Square Midheaven, Chiron Conjunct Venus, Mars Opposition Saturn, Uranus Square North Node, Lilith in Libra Square the North Node. I haven’t looked at the asteroids yet, but I can guess these too will be in hard aspect. Other family members have similarly challenging charts, heavy with Pluto, 12th and 8th House placements – nicely zapped with Sun Conjunct Uranus. I think of my mother and our family as a sort of House of Mirrors. The charts reflect that – mine too. I had a hard life when I was younger, but in the end I did learn to navigate the reflective world that was my home and even embrace it. I can’t blame my mother, there really isn’t anyone to blame. In life we are all dealt the same number of cards, it’s how we play them that counts. This is the great truth the natal chart reveals to us.
Great article, Satori! The theme is very relevant to what humanity is going through right now, the fase of evolutin we are now in.
Narcissism, egocentrism, self-obsorbtion…In one book of author Carlos Castaneda about the teachings of one indian ‘shaman’ from America, whose name was Don Juan. Don Juan called the self-obsortion a state, where the most of humanity is trapped in.
He said to preserve the self- image, which the humans are protecting with their teeth and claws, – cost the same amount of energy as to get rid of. Humans are suffering in the mirrow of self reflection. As a result their real magical nature is bleeding to death. The other path – is the path of heart.
He said one path – of self image is leading to death, another – is the path of heart – is happy path. The quantity of energy spended to support one path or another – is equal. Why one being is choosing one path than another – is a mystery, but the spirit is knocking on everybody’s door as hard. Why one being hears the call and one is deaf and blind – is as well- the mystery of life.
Astrological notifications from my observation about narcissism: Moon and ascendant in Leo; Moon in hard aspects to personal planets; planetary positionning in Leo, Aquarius, Scorpio and in hard aspects with each other. It’s all can get even worth if the chart is also, what i call Naptunian – a lot of Neptune aspects and it does not matter if Neptune is in trine or in sextile. Neptune can put distorted people in deep delusional sleep even if Neptune forms trine and sextile aspects.
Pluto is in 8th house with hard aspects with personal aspects, especially Moon.
Neptune quincunx Ascendant – is also a tough one.
The lack of earth element – is when people might loose their common sense.
Taurian influence in the case of narcissism – is a lucky zone, a stable eiland to work with.
Planets in Libra in hard aspects without supportive aspects.
We are all prone to fall in this trap and it’s take quite aan attention spam and other spritual knowledge to be strong and kind, to find our true self back again. One thing, which is always always always helping, is – to find creative outlet. Everyone is creative, just to find one cretive outlet or few, or many – is one of the ways to happiness and to gain passion for life again.
I love self reflection. I love reflecting. I am a contemplative. I must be a narcissus then? I am of the thinking that reflection helps me be a better person in my day to day life as I move away from knee jerk subconscious reaction. It helps me stay in the moment so I can be aware of the choices I am making. Oh well, shame on me.
@noch.
What you are talking about is a techniek of application – remote vieuwing – to look back, to contemplate, to give your self aan honest response on your deeds, words (which are also actual deeds), gestures and if you are capable to go deeper – to trace your thoughts…most important – how everything feels and felt back than, in that given moment, day, period of time, life spam…Some people thank’s to that compteplative ability – just to go in deep meditative state,- changed their life completely, became different people somtimes at the very old age, which is very rare, but it did happend.
What Satori is talking about and comments above are about people which lost the ability to be aan honest observer about themselves and others.
People – narcissists- are talking to their self-image and agreeing only with that part in themselves, which is appealing only to the self-image and eventually the ability to be in touch with inner true world, which is connected to the heart and to feel good in the world,- evntually might be lost forever.
If you were talking about contemplation – it’s a good thing. I know it’s not of my buisness, but well, we all here to dig the truth. So your words : ” Oh, well, shame on me” — is obviously sarcastic and resentful tone, which is also one of many attributes of narssisism. How about to comteplate on that?
I am not only concerned about my reflection in the mirror but also how I behave.
Dear Satori
Great post.
I have met the worst narcissists who where the mix of cancer – Leo influences. Jupiter conjunct AsC, Venus conjunct AsC and so on.
O-oh yes… absolutely Jupiter conjuunct Asc and Venus conjunct Asc and mix of Cancer with Leo.
I know someone with Mars conjunct Pluto in Libra and Leo Sun conjunct ASC. They are highly manipulative and proud of it, but you only realize it after you’ve been f*cked over. They make everybody think the sun shines out of their ass (and with that placement it probably does) but after 2-3 years the truth has gradually come out. Then they change the scenery and find new people to manipulate. Every 2-3 years with no exceptions. Granted, they had the sort of neglect and abuse until they were 5 that without proper therapy this was what psychiatrists predicted for their future. Mars quincunx Chiron there as well. It’s like they refuse to admit to any shortcomings and project them to other people.
I had to check my own quincunxes and placements, since two of my boyfriends have said I’m the most selfish person they’ve ever met. Interestingly my closest friends very much disagree. Sun Uranus conjunction is what I can think of off the top of my head, and Aries Moon in 7th. I have no Pluto/Chiron quincunxes. Plus neglect and abuse: you learn to take whatever you can to survive.
They make everybody think the sun shines out of their ass (and with that placement it probably does. 🙂 haha. So funny…Just imagine that! ha ha! LOL
”There are no chart placements or aspects that spell out narcissism”
Thank you for touching upon this subject! I have wondered for a long time what these aspects would be as my mother is a narcissist. I don’t feel any loyalty towards her anymore so I don’t believe she has created a false sense of identity. I won’t accept any excuse for her behavior. She is just false. Vals = mean in Dutch.
@ Satori
Thank you for the article and for the Shakespeare,- so inspiring: “God has given you one face, and you make yourself another.” – just got me to the core.
Heartbreaking … even at this point where I thought I’d read everything posible on the subject. An excellent account all the same, Satori thank you.
I am, like others here, child of a narcissist mother. My “awakening” occurred shortly after my breakdown. My recovery was only really possible because I distanced myself from her for 5 years. She somehow got under my radar last xmas, but my reconciliation with her was impossible. I live very far away from her thank god. I will never forget my last and only phone call with her at that time. It was like talking to a ghost/alien/creature of some sort. It was like no element of human sentiment was left in her. I checked her chart, and there it is: Pluto conjunct N.N quincunx Sun (capricorn) plus 8 other planets quincunxing each other …
As a survivor of narcissistic abuse and parental alienation by my ex-husband of 14 years, I can say from experience that his 1st House Moon, especially in prideful Leo, which is only about 21 degrees wide, has a lot to do with his make-up. Also, combust is a stellium in Aries of Sun, Venus, and Chiron in is 9th House (cusp actually Pisces), yet closely knocking on the door of his 24 degree Aries MC. Personal planets out through the goddess asteroids only have one single earth element that does a poor job of keeping him “grounded,” his Capricorn North Node in his 6th House.
Oddly enough, his 7th cusp is Aquarius (my Sun) and houses his Jupiter and Mars (also my Mars), which sandwich my Sun. These are also trine his 3rd House Pluto. His Moon (Leo) conjuncts my North Node, and my Moon (Capricorn) in turn conjuncts his North Node (only earth), both of which are a degree or less orb.
Those are just a few of the details that I think very much contributed to his emotionally abusive ways and my long loyalty to his narcissistic game. We have three children, and his narcissism has kept me from seeing them for almost two years after being a stay-at-home mom for 12 years. A narcissist knows how to misuse the courts. They are masters of manipulation.
Of all I’ve mentioned, I do believe that 1st House prideful Moon and his combust fire stellium within a degree or two of the 10th House Aries cusp are his major factors for narcissism. He’s always got to appear perfect and in control with that ego shining bright.
I have Moon 12th inconjunction Pluto 7th.
Hmm… very interesting article! He has 1st house Chiron at 23 degrees Pisces exactly quincunx Mars and Saturn at 25 degrees Pisces, exactly quincunx Mercury. Also a close Uranus/Pluto is just into his 7th house and opposite Chiron/Saturn. His Sun (true self?) is widely (9.5 degrees) conjunct Venus in Libra in the 7th but otherwise not aspecting any other planet or angle.
My Venus is exactly trine his Chiron and I did feel sorry for him. I won’t feel sorry for him again until after he stops hurting our children. Does anyone know how you play people like this so they just stop their games? Can’t even get him to tell me when he’s bringing the youngest 2 back home this holiday.
Damn this is good. Excellent and gets to you crux of the issue. Thank you 🙂