Dear Elsa,
Everything I read about a grand cross in a charts is doom and gloom. I’d love to hear from someone who consciously lives with a grand cross pattern.
What type of cross to do they live with? Fixed? Mutable? Cardinal? And what does that feel like in their lives–how do they handle the “tension”?
Investigator
Investigator, I don’t have a grand cross in my chart so fall outside your control group.People like this – Life With a Grand Cross.
Hopefully others will show up… thanks!
I haven’t been around for a spell but I’m back today. . .
Yeah, I have this in angular houses. It’s fixed and involves Sun, Moon, Saturn, Jupiter. I don’t know if it’s all doom and gloom because this is all I have ever known. I do find that many aspects of my life conflict with other aspects of my life. Like, I need to honor my Sun in the 10th, but I have this major responsibility of Saturn in the 4th that “conflicts” with this energy. So I am learning to combine the two all the time. Working from home, using my children as my muse for more tenth house outer work.
Moon in the seventh wants a partner, Aqua Sun doesn’t care about that. Neither does Jupiter in the first. Jupiter wants to gogoGO. Saturn 4th wants to stay put.
Mostly this is experienced as inner conflict. I simultaneously have very different needs and it’s rare that I can quench them all at once. Yet.
I once read a description of a Grand Cross that likened it one of those cowboys in an old western who is being drug along by a team of horses. He gets drug along by these horses until he musters the strength to pull himself up to standing with one foot on each horse. Then he has the reigns and his feet are planted and off he rides, guiding the team of horses.
I can relate to that feeling.
The person that comes to mind who has one was that astronaut Lisa Somebody who psycho stalked her lover’s wife while *wearing a diaper*. I mean, that’s the intensity of energy that we are dealing with.
(I haven’t ever done *that*.)
I hear once you integrate all those oppositions and squares that a Grand Cross can be quite the force. It would be great to hear from anyone else. . .
I have grand cross in navmansa chart or 9th harmonic chart or heliocentric chart, in fixed sign in cardinal houses sun in 1st house in Scorpio moon in Aquarius in 4th house mercury in 7th house in Taurus and Jupiter in 10th in leo,
So it’s between sun moon mercury and Jupiter and definitely it’s a very positively or meaningfully impact on my life but I don’t able to understand how its work in my life if any one can help how its work.
I have grand cross involving Mars, Pluto, Saturn and Venus in Fixed signs. I am 67 and have enjoyed fulfilled life. No internal stress. BTW, I also have grand trines involving Jupiter, Sat, Mer and Uranus, Sat & Mercury.
I commented on this but I think it got trashed to the great beyond. Gotta run now though. Maybe it will be retrieved.
I don’t know why that happens to me.
Mercury related?
“(I haven’t ever done *that*.)”
oh Heather, thanks for the first big laugh of the day!
I work with people with grand crosses all the time… I think because my sister has one so I am intimately familiar. Validation helps a lot. Getting the person very very familiar with all the points in the cross also helps. Knowledge is power! Beyond that, specific awareness of things in the life that do come easy also lends support.
Hi,
I am such a newbie in astrology I can only vaguely comprehend it all, but I do have a fixed grand cross. My Saturn is retrograde in Aquarius, square Pluto retrograde in Scorpio. Pluto square Chiron in Leo. And my Chiron is square my Ascendant in Taurus. What are possible manifestations with aspects like mine?? Thanks.
Yeah, I also think to utilize the GC well, you have to look to the planet involved that is the easiest to express or is well aspected beyond the Grand Cross. In my case, Jupiter in the first. It trines or sextiles every other planet in my chart. So as long as I stay Jupiter I usually flow with minimized conflict. If I stop being outwardly Jupiter, everything starts to spiral down.
Fun, huh? 😉
OMG!! What am image…! I had a picture of someone being drawn and quartered by the competing needs. Clearly unpleasant. But I don’t live with a GC, so I can only imagine its effects.
How does an astrologer counsel someone with this configuration? I mean, clearly, one has to integrate or balance the drives, but how?
My best friend had her baby boy this morning, and I immediately did his chart and saw a grand cross w/ Pluto, Moon, Mercury, and Uranus. I never have had any friends or family with this in their chart, so I am interested in learning about it. As a matter of fact, I’m trying to make more time to read up more on astrology, hopefully someday I can be as knowledgeable as you all!
I have a fixed grand cross if you include Chiron. After living with my chart for a long time, I don’t get that feeling of “oh this grand cross is such a big deal, or so horrible to live with.” I am used to it, and I think this challenging energy leads to great motivation to be actively evolving through life. I have seen a few people with nothing but grand trines being quite encapsulated in their own world and/or never making much effort because they don’t need to.
I have heard it said that Sun opp Saturn (part of my grand cross) is very harsh in the early life, but then it lets up in the second part. This has been true for me. Also, don’t forget that you have a progressed chart, and that transits & progressions will form grand cross in other peoples charts. Not being familiar, they may have a harder time dealing with it.
This chart I’m looking at today has GC points at the nodes. I can imagine the possibility of greater “where have you been and where are you going?” tension within the person.
I have that — Cardinal Grand Cross on angles — Cap NN/Can SN 1st/7th, Aries Sun 3rd/Libra Neptune 9th. I ask myself that question all day long…
I hope more people post their experiences! My son has a fixed grand cross (Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Neptune) and damn, that fixed Mars-Jupiter opposition produces a feisty will. But I’m glad to hear experiences so I can help him deal with it.
I’m in a relationship that has a composite with a mutable grand cross. What Elsa said about becoming very familiar with all the points really resonates with me. I am learning how to deal as I (we) go and trying to do that. It also is seeming important to realize that you’re going to get hit hard by transits at pretty regularly spaced intervals and get used to rolling with it, sort of like those floating hydraulic foundations in earthquake country. Would love to hear more from everyone!
I have a grand cross in fixed signs with a 10th house Aquarian Sun, a 4th house Uranus in Leo, a twelfth house Mars in Taurus and a sixth house Neptune in Scorpio.
Pretty much when one thing hits one of these planets, the energy zings around the chart and stirs up everything, For instance, I’ll have a “do it or your ass is grass” report to do for work, day job customers screaming at me on the phone, my children calling me on the cell phone with some sort of dysfunction and the school calling me about some problem that needs attention now. I’ve gotten very good at having a plan A, B and C in the works to handle all the crisis but gawd I get tired. With a Pisces moon, I tire emotionally pretty quickly, and there is a certain point where I have to shut out everybody just to regain my balance. Some weekends I just spend it in bed catching up on some rest.
I have no idea what it is like not to live like this, but I do know I am a bit jealous of my sister, who only has a T-Square, no children and a husband who supports her financially. How do you get a gig like that!
I have nearly the same grand cross – Kiron in Aquarius 10th, Uranus in Leo 4th, Mars in Taurus 1st, and Jupiter in Scorpio 7th. I don’t get what you do. I’ve learned to pause in the chaos and listen for intuition to guide me. It been a savior – thru raising my kids I had a ton of pauses because there were many busy times. I don’t feel that I struggle with my cross but allow it to energize and amplify me…. Mars is movement and forward action, Jupiter amplifies and both Kiron and Uranus a bit of disruptors — but in my disruption comes change and solutions. Like necessary for the results I seek. lol
I have a fixed T square…the missing leg is my Taurus Ascendant (no planet). So not quite a Grand Cross. However knowing each point, as suggested, is very important. My T square is made up of:
Saturn (10th H) serious, hard-working, too formal.
Moon (4th) private, relaxed at home, a place to be silly.
Mixing them up can help: Fellow workers are like family. Or work from home. Be more light-hearted at work. Then to add the planet that squares them both: Neptune (7th H) idealise partners, intuitive, occult interests, addiction risks.
The Moon Square Neptune can do some pretty deluded, drunken escapades in company, in which Saturn is terribly ashamed of later, regret, remorse, guilt, self-blame. So I now, with advancing years, try not to let Moon/Neptune do anything that Saturn will be ashamed of, or that will interfere with work.
Transits to any of these points are excruciatingly tense!
I just wrote a post about my T square…and it disappeared into the ether!
I was just looking at my chart, and while I’m not too familiar with the T-squares,Grand Crosses, Grand Trines and such, it appears to me that I have like 3 or 4 T-squares. Is that possible?
Oh nevermind, I think it’s two T-squares and a few regular squares.
I can see yours is in a cadent houses but what are the involved signs?
What Loonsoon says about Saturn holds true for me as well… I totally relate to the cowboy image LOL!
Regardless of modes I feel the cross keeps us super busy, it’s like having four kids each with unique needs & expressions.
My fixed cross in succedent (fixed) houses never ceases to surprise me with the variety of ways it manifests. I also have 2 grand trines which offers me openings with trines & sextiles to some points of the square. That helps enormously. (Look if a P. makes soft aspects to any 2 points of your G square).
Cardinal crosses do get a huge amount of projects done and are almost never idle: they are highly motivated. That would be the major difference compared with a fixed cross who can be 🙂 supreme procrastinators until up against the wall or UNLESS that cross is in cardinal houses in which case they are just as motivated then the cardinal/angular peeps, but perhaps more efficient on how to go about it and also about risk evaluation and which pieces come first.
well, some people say i have a grand cross, and some don’t. i have mercury, saturn, and uranus in a tight t square between the 9th & 11th degrees fixed of taurus, leo, and scorpio. my moon is sitting at 19 degrees aquarius, which is a very loose orb for a grand cross, but some people would interpret it as one simply because it’s the moon.
but i can give my impressions….
i have been told i’m of a much roe nervous disposition than a lot of people (well, there’s mercury and urnaus in there, both in aspect to my virgo ascenndant, all famous for nervyness…)
every single element in the cross is in easy aspect to either the sun, venus, or the ascendant, so i have means of expresses and letting out the tension… it’s taken some time to start figuring out effective ways to do so, and i still get tripped up on it, particularly the difficulty in communication from time to time.
but i find the my most important communication tends to get handled in situations that echo my cross, particularly during mercury squares… as if i’m more comfortable dealing with difficult communication and painful topics because i’ve been forced to?
it’s also made me less concerned about squares in general.. they tend to require more self control (at least, mine do, but maybe that’s because saturn’s a primary figure in mine) and they train me in how to hold my grip in the midst of powerful experiences.
it’s a useful skill, to be able to hold the line…
I have a cardinal one..
between my 3rd 6th 9th and 12th
chiron, mercury, neptune and mars
I don’t know if its much different than anybody else, I can only speak for myself.
I have south node conjunct my un and black moon in the fifth too , which all 3 trin my ascendat and black moon is sextile w pluto.. so it kind of adds to the whole thing
but, my south node in in my 5th with my sun just make me so frustrated with the cross that I just delve into my creativity side, I run into the same crap over n over whenever I do what so naturally comes to me, when I tand out or throw it all to the wind and let all of myself be seen by everyone.. I attract so much attention, but along w it come bad attention, but u wouldn’t believe how alive I feel with things like this.
I don’t mean to sound like a massochist but I feel my life is much more meaninful and full of passion than other peoples.
I have to talk about everything w my grand cross.. theres always tension and I never really know what to do.. my north node is in pisces so this ‘suffering’ that ur supposed to feel with a cross isn’t quite bad..
idk.
I don’t think I would have it any other way.
I have one.. Aquarius Sun opposed Leo Moon, Scorpio in Jupiter opposed to Saturn in Taurus. I have an awesome life. Attending Tibetan Buddhist grad school learning Tantric meditation.. Am an illustrator & writer.. Do Tai Chi, Qui-gong, Jui-jitsu & stick & knife fighting.. Live on a house boat.. BUT things can really suck if you don’t clear your space & assert yourself calmly. Before that was going out with a gambling addict stripper in a shit-hole apartment with a slight case of alcoholism. That’s how it is with this configuration. Don’t dwell on negativity AT ALL and touch the stars…….
Hi thank you for the space and concern about gc. I have a fixed grand cross. With pluto conj moon + mercury + mars + saturn corners. How am i handle. I think i can escape with mars in taurus working because i have some trines in that area. But mars opposite my moon and pluto in scorpio. So it must be emotionally satisfied business and it must be hard working. Otherwise i became disinterested and back to my square trap.
Omg me too
Leo rising cancer sun Scorpio moon
I have Scorpio moon tightly conjunct Pluto in the fourth
Saturn conjunct BLM in Aquarius seventh house
Tenth house mars in Taurus
Chiron same degree as Leo ASC and mercury conjuncting it in 1 st house
My fixed Grand Cross consists of Neptune in Scorpio in 3rd, Sun/Saturn conjunct in Aquarius in the 6th, Moon in Taurus in 9th one degree from the mid-heaven and Mars in Leo in the 12th. I can relate to what Beth Turnage said about often being needed by many people at the same time or set deadlines and having to try and somehow make it all happen. Guess that struggle is often why ulcers are created. I have what could be a loose Grand Trine with Pluto in Virgo in the first, Mercury in Capricorn in the 5th and again, the moon in Taurus in the 9th at the midheaven. Pluto is a little farther out, but as I’m now learning about Grand Crosses, I’m also looking at the planets/houses in the trine to see if there might be some relief there.
Pluto in Leo, Saturn in Scorpio, Mars in Aquarius, Mercury 02 degrees Gemini.
Yes, the dubious Pluto, Saturn, Mars fixed Grand Cross with mutable Mercury. I only discovered this after looking at the Grand Cross diagrammed on the Astrotheme web site. They used my birthday. There is interesting documentation there which I won’t bother with here.
Jupiter is conjunct Pluto, so it’s a 5 planet Grand Cross. These two are also opposite Moon which is apparently not conjunct with Mars. The Nodes are within 6 degrees of the Saturn Mercury opposition in the Grand Cross. Sun is 7 degrees away from Mercury. The vedics don’t use a Grand Cross, just aspects, tell me I have 8 planets at war and that the energy is extremely powerful.
The energy and tension is indeed intense, so intense that things like meditation is counter productive, simply makes me more tense. Actually I can meditate doing 100 laps or climbing a mountain. By the time I was 21 I had climbed over 100. At times I suffer from what I now call Grand Cross paralysis. It is linked to thinking process and it becomes reactionary, takes time and effort to overcome. Anger management and negative energy management is imperative, cannot be overstated. Rage is dangerous. That is when the A-bomb goes off (intense paralysis). Big rituals are bad. Little rituals are good – focus. Too much tension and energy for religion, a waste of time. The energy needs to release, not increase. And it needs to be controlled, directed, not allowed aimless manifestation.
There is a flip side. The woman I married … it was like winning the lottery. She was a remarkable person, infectious smile, bubbling laughter, always bright, witty and eager to DO anything. She was simply great for me. I have Venus in Cancer with no hard or soft aspects, none (pure?). I had a successful career even though the obstacles and challenges were constant, still are. From an illiterate high school flunkie with no math I educated myself, became a professional who made it all the way to the top. I accomplished this because I intuitively found the secret of my Grand Cross. I cannot learn-to-do. I always do-to-learn. And when I DO, I master. The energy is indeed formidable. What I do is how I am going to feel.
My creative energy is always strong, superb, talented, an endless source of pleasure and for that I am grateful for my dubious Grand Cross.
Thank you.
Email address typo corrected.
JF
My daughter has a cardinal grand cross. Aries Uranus opposite Libra Saturn and Capricorn Pluto opposite Cancer Mercury. She’s a triple Gem to boot! Thanks for sharing your stories. I would love to help her learn to manage her energy early on if I can. She also has quite a few sextiles a trines from each planet in the cross and it sounds like that’s helpful!
I think the Grand Cross is managed best through actions. Lecture, discipline, detention, counseling – all the idle stuff – may not do much. They find their way and feel alive through action. I don’t know if soft aspects would lessen the intensity of the cross itself. The tension is still there and it is very powerful.
For example, I believe Mia Farrow has a Grand Cross, a Grand Trine, a Mystic Rectangle and a Yod in her chart. When I see clips of her at 20 years old, her appearance is clearly intense, explosive. In a Letterman interview she said that after leaving Sinatra her life was in disarray, so she and her sister went to an ashram in India to find “inner peace”. After weeks of meditation, as she put it – “it eluded me”. She eventually left her sister and went hitchhiking in India. Despite the lovely aspects in her chart the tension seems to have prevailed.
I have 2 fixed Grand Crosses. Sun, Saturn, Mars, and Jupiter/Pluto conjunction.
My life has not been easy. I’ve seen the people close to me die so many times that I sincerely believed my love killed people. I’ve survived cancer (stage 3 Triple Negative breast cancer… one of the most difficult to treat). I’ve been married 4 times, widowed twice, divorced twice. My mother married my first ex husband! I’ve never held a job for more than a year in my life. (I’m 60 years old). When my parents died, a “brother” I never knew about surfaced and took my inheritance. So, yeah, things have never been easy.
My sister did my chart and found ai had the Gran Cross,however I also had Mars in Scorpio. In my lifetime I survived two alcoholic parents. My mother died when was 16 and my father wanted to run off with his girlfriend. It was 1969 and I rented a room in a friend’s home. Her brothers room. It had a cot and lots of books on meditation and yoga. I wrote very bad poetry, experimented with all kinds of drugs, watched friends die and then got an apartment and told my father he was welcomed there. I watched him die at home from emphysema, the way he wanted. A vey surreal experience. I we t to California and married. He didn’t love me, but I thought he did. He told me I was stupid, at and ugly and I believed him, until I met a friend and her family who explained my husband was lying to me, a form of control.i had 2 child’ren. My husband was rich and took them away from me. Then he tried to kill himself and I got them back, but instead of following my lawyers advice I insisted I wanted my husband to be a father to his kids. I wanted him back on his feet and in return I wanted alimony for the rest of my life. My husband gladly agreed until the youngest one turned 18. I made it work. Know the challenges will always come up, but am strong and take the lessons as they come. I am 64 years old. I have learned that I can’t fight the waves, but I can learn to surf.
I have a mutable Grand Cross with 5 planets from my ascendent in Gemini with Ceres in the 7th in Sagittarius, Chiron in the 10th in Pisces, and Pluto & Uranus in the 4th in Virgo. Additionally with Venus in loose orb to cross.
This has been indeed been a life-long challenge with Saturn at my midheaven. It does make for an intense personality and a lot of change. I’ve learned to curb my rash impulses and ride out emotions to varying degrees. Creativity with structure are a theme for me in the positive. I need quiet space and time, but not to much HA. I too, must DO to learn, but self confidence got eroded and now I’m working my back into that direction.
I appreciate all the comments and hope to see more.
My grandcross has moon in aquarius in 8th opposite venus in leo 2nd square uranus scorpio 5th opposite chiron in taurus in 11th.
because of the houses 5th, 8th 2nd and 11th, I thrive when I express who I really am but when my self esteem, spiritual goals, expression of energy, creative expression are not all met I start to feel each of them tug at various intensity at random times. This is counter-productive, frustrating and overwhelming. Balance is vital to getting through life happier and fulfilled. I think a grand cross in a chart is unique, gives an individual strength, depth and creativity on many levels.
ASC 26° aqu
Mc 16° sagg. Ic 16° gemi
True node 17° aries
Venus 16° Scorpio
Pluto 9° Scorpio
It is said that with a stellium the centerpoint of that stellium would take the place as chart ruler it is also said that the area opposing that stelliums center is quite important especially if there are planets or angles conjunct or in hard aspect to this point
I’ve been studying astrology 15 years and I have never seen a chart so beautiful and sad in my whole life. I am a lightworker thru and thru
I have no retrograde planets
Saturn 14° sagg
Mercury18° sagg
Uranus 23° Sagg
Sun 0° Capri
Neptune 5° Capri
Mars 16° pisc
Jupiter 18° pisc
Moon 11° virgo
Stelliums can be a hard configuration to deal with
A Grand Cross can be a hard configuration to deal with
Conjunctions can be hard to deal with such is the power of our Souls intent to learn and grow
but we got to play the cards we’re dealt and I’m so blessed to be born with this chart I float where the universe takes me I communicate the importance of unconditional love to those I float by and I live a simple life because my karma here is done and I’m going home …
My sun at 0 degrees Capricorn makes me a very special kind of messed up
But I love it lol.
I have never seen anyone that dances like me
I am a shaman and well in tune with my spirits intent
Yes my chart is doom and gloom doom and gloom
But with Chiron as the connecting point at
17 degrees Gemini in the 4th house in hard aspect to pretty much everything
I gotta say
Spiritual evolution and the path of Ascension hurt a lot. The
third-fourth stage of the initiate hurts ALOT
challenges and tests injuries and betrayal the struggles and hardships. such is the path of a born healer to be so unique charismatic beautiful To be so empathic and real yet so so very alone 🙂 Gotta tell ya if I didn’t shine so bright because of the energy I have from this arrangement
To light up that doom and gloom like gasoline
I’d of prolly of killed myself years ago
But no matter who we are where were born what our skills are or what type of life wev lead no matter what path brought us to this life
one thing remains the same and that is that
The dark night awaits us all
for it is beaten Broken and utterly destroyed that
we discover that
” only once we have given up on everything
Do we find that we are truly free to do anything”
.Brad Pitt
Fight club
In order to heal people with sickness we have to have been sick
to cure mental disease
We have to have been with disease
I have the same chart as you. I wonder if we were born in the same hospital on the same night? I’d love to chat about it, Matty. Feel free to email me at [email protected].
Hi, Elsa and friends:
I, too, have a Grand Cross – if you include Chiron:
Saturn in Leo 2° (12th house); Uranus in Scorpio 1° (3rd); Moon in Aquarius 3° (6th); and old Chiron in Aries 26° (9th).
At 45, I have nothing to show for myself – but I take care of myself and stay out of people’s way.
Penny for your thoughts?
Thank you, and All the Best.
Hi, Cardinal Grand cross
Age 24
Saturn/ Aries 6’
Jupiter/ Cap 8’
Chiron/ Libra 12’
Mars/ Cancer 12’
Venus/ Cancer 6’
NN/ Libra 10’
I have only recently discovered the grand cross in my chart which was shocking as I have been reading my chart for years but not within depth. I still don’t fully understand how to interpret the meaning of the cross but it made so much sense. I have questioned the overwhelming ‘volcanic‘ like energy that moves through me my whole life that can feel chaotic, euphoric, destructing and elevating all at the same time. I’ve never been able to go in one direction in my life or hold a job down longer than a year. Many fails but proud achievements throughout my life it’s overwhelming how important it is for me to become the person I feel myself to be but I’m constantly being set back. I’ve reached many breakthrough moments in my life and walked away because of the lack of fulfilment I felt, it’s like I will not allow myself to have any growth or breakthrough unless it’s authentic to what feels right. I have recently been called to dive deeper spiritually and it has resulted in me feeling somewhat balance. I’ve started making music nothing published yet but I feel like music and spiritual awareness has balanced my energies and when I’m in the moment the energy I feel is indescribable as if I could create life with my hands.
I’ve experimented with drugs alcohol never really had any addictive type behaviour towards it though I don’t dabble anymore. I can’t recall my childhood if it was positive or negative my mind just goes blank but I have no negative emotions when I think of it which is strange. Dad was absent. A lot of friends and family have passed away around me. I didn’t finish school due to my dominant need of doing things myself my way and being the authority of my own life (stubborn).
Ultimately with this type of energy I know I will never give up no matter what. I have been financially challenged my whole life and would say that’s where the unstable part lyes. I’ve been homeless and broke. I have social anxiety sometimes no depression never been in a relationship out of choice because my body possesses a paralysingly feeling when it comes to intimacy but I find it so easy to be intimate with friends but above all these things I’m more internally content than not it’s what’s external that is the struggle though I’m in the middle of a huge spiritual leap and acceleration on personal growth and healing which was weird because I didn’t intend this, i literally just found myself in the middle of it and it’s been the biggest reaching point yet.
Hope this helps someone and hope someone can tell me more on these cross placements
I have a mutable grand cross with one point being a stellium including Sun, Pluto, Uranus, Mercury. Just…wow…