Carl Panzram (28 June 1891 – 5 September 1930) writes in notes that were published in 1970, in “Killer a Journal of Murder”:
“In my lifetime I have murdered 21 human beings, I have committed thousands of burglaries, robberies, larcenies, arsons and, last but not least, I have committed sodomy on more than 1,000 male human beings. For all these things I am not in the least bit sorry. I have no conscience so that does not worry me. I don’t believe in man, God nor Devil. I hate the whole damn human race including myself.
If you or anyone else will take the trouble and have the intelligence or patience to follow and examine every one of my crimes, you will find that I have consistently followed one idea throughout my life. I preyed on the week, the harmless, and the unsuspecting.”
Click to see Carl Panzram’s (approximate) chart.
He’s got a stellium in Gemini with Mercury in a tight trine to Uranus. Jupiter in Pisces trines Mars. This chart denotes a person who would be prolific in some way. I there was ever an example of energy being neutral until directed, this is it.
mars trine jupiter is supposed to be lucky – I guess he was lucky in a way, not getting caught for a while
:/
Shit, just got the chills all over. Have no skills in interpreting a chart, but curious to see what everyone says.
I’m still learning about how to read a chart (w/o studying it for awhile!), but the stellium in the 12th took my breath away…
One more thing – in my experience Cancer males come across as “nice guys” who are exuding sensitivity. Folks want to talk to them – and he’s got his Cancer sun conj. (exact) to his rising sign *deep shivers*
No, the chart is approximate, set for noon with the sun on the ascendant (solar chart). All I have is a birthday and a state. He may have a Pisces moon for example…
All these planets in the 12th house. Is it typical that someone with a lot of planets in the 12th house to be psychotic?
Again, it is a a SOLAR chart… I do not have complete birth data.
trying to see where his hatred for humanity would come in?
Venus pluto neptune? He got sailors drunk and raped them.
Just a bit of Back-up for Elsa…..
If you don’t see a time of birth , then a chart applies to EVERYONE born on that day. Hence the tern: Solar.
Time of Birth is the critical data that makes a chart specific to an individual.
Most people here on this Blog are used to seeing Natal charts….. so it’s natural to make this assumption.
I just can’t fathom what it would be like to have absolutely no concious. Blows the mind.
Thank you for rekindling my probably unhealthy interest in serial killers! I’ve been bored with my usual reading and seeking something that really engages me. Yeah, this celebrity gossip gets old… Thanks for switching my gears back to the meaty stuff.
And the astrology is breathtaking.
However, with all that Gemini, I would suspect that he might have exaggerated just a wee bit.
@Del…I was thinking the same thing. Also if he had little schooling, how is it that he was able to write a book? Well it makes for good reading anyway.
Stellium in Gemini. All the squares in his chart hit a planet in Gemini. No offense to Gemini’s but emotions are quickly intellectualized. He has neptune conjunct pluto in intellectual gemini, square jupiter in pisces, and also square saturn in virgo, and I think, semi-sextile his sun. No belief in God? He probably thought it wasn’t in his best interest. I’m sure out of fear. Some people believe in God out of fear, so I’m sure this guy decided NOT to believe in God out of fear. Picked helpless victims. I’m sure mars in his own sign helped him with that. He also had venus square saturn. I think this a cold aspect to have. He probably never felt loved, so it was easy for him not to feel love as a result. I think there’s a lot of emotional detachment with just that one aspect. Hated the whole damn race including himself.
I have not finished the book yet but it specifically says that everything he wrote has been corroborated, within reason. Nothing has been found to be false. There are extensive notes. For example he claims to have burned a building when he was a young teen and the authors went back and verified this.
As for his schooling, an education in this era… well if you made though hs in this era, you were better education that a college grad of this era, generally speaking.
He does have Gemini, but also Jupiter and while there may be some exaggeration, as I said, his story checks out.
Keep in mind he wrote this in 1928. No one published it until 1970 because there was no interest in this kind of thing.
Today we have the mafia ice killer bullshitter but it is a completely different era. Very sensational now but back then, it was not that way at all.
They published this to take advantage of a surge in interest after Speck came on the scene. I mean, it was published, 40 years after the fact and the back of the book includes 105 points where the author has checked out the story. Very careful, responsible reporting.
There was a whole different standard of reporting back then and to publish something like this at that time, you better damned well back it up and they have.
The reporting has gotten so lax, get the story out true or not, then see if it checks out.
posted something three hours ago…I see it did not make it…mercury retrograde I guess..
mermaid, it probably went in the spam filter and if so and it’s not shown up yet, I probably deleted it by mistake. Sorry, I go through the spam pretty carefully but do miss something on occasion. 🙁
I’m definately getting this book. People like this fascinate me– to try to understand the mind of someone like this… He as no conscience, so why lie?
I have a book somewhere about serial killers – it’s a study of about eight of them, all convicted. What forcibly struck me – forgive the pun – is that all of these men had at some point received a trauma to the head, whether from an accident or by violence
Didn’t you know, lying is the most fun a person can have without taking their clothes off.
Loose movie quote aside, what jumps out at me the most, besides the gemini stellium is that venus and saturn square. Seems like a real bummer aspect to have, plus it touches jupiter which is probably expanding the bummer. And then the jupiter trines mars, making it easy to demonstrate his aggressiveness, alot.
@ComicKissesToYou
I also have a lot of planets in the 12th house…hope not to become the next Hannibal Lecter, lol!
Interested by danielle’s comment. Is Venus square Saturn also a negative aspect?
“Saturn combined with Pluto is known for its brutality. Where ever it is found it make s life deeply difficult; a karmic aspect that makes a prison sentence of life”.
It would be interesting to see where his Black Moon Lilith lay, as it figures strongly in the charts of male murderers and psychopaths.
Ha! Now I know where o send my friends who ask if you can spot a nasty person by their chaart. I always say “No! Energy is neutral until directed!” And here’s the proof. Great example. Thanks Elsa!
I finished the book and think he’s credible. He pontificates a lot but the book is interesting on multiple levels.
One thing that struck me when I put the thing down was this: When it comes to crime and criminals, we’ve made absolutely no progress in 100 years.
Now who should we scapegoat for this?
@Blessed
Venus square saturn can cause one to be to be oversensitive to rejection and my therefore have deep-seated feelings of being unworthy of love even though they may know there is no real basis for these feelings. These people may just always expect rejection because they are especially sensitive to cues that suggest they are not loved.
People with this aspect include Adolf Hitler and Charles Manson.
And as I had said, in Panzram’s chart, it touches jupiter to form a t-square in which these saturn-venus issues may become inflated.
What’s a life without [feeling] love? Very ouch aspect.
IMHO =)
How foolish to look at such a life without a birth time; it shows that you do NOT understand the way astrology works, at the fundamental level. Let me remind you that many others were born the same DAY as this person. You are disgracing astrology; no, you are disgracing yourself by publishing such rubbish. Do you understand?
A chart like this comes down to the exact second; the hermetic lots and their releasing, the 13th harmonics of the planets and other concepts you apparently have no understanding of. This is an exact science. Earth to Elsa.
Earth to Joseph: Why would you come onto someone else’s blog as a guest and then proceed to attack them? Saturn’s in Libra, or did you not get the memo?
Gee Whiz Joseph…I guess in a perfect world everyone would know the exact second they were born but new flash for ya…..not a perfect world.
Earth to Joseph – it’s highly doubtful many records exist of “the exact second” babies were born in 1891!!
I appreciate your attempt to act all superior though, it made for a very amusing read. Thanks for the laugh!
Damn but his picture gave me the creeps big time! Just look at his eyes! Soulless, dead and empty, and totally unrepentant, arrogant even. Somehow I knew there was some Gemini in his chart — guess the bad side of Gem took over.
In looking at his placements – wow SO MUCH Gemini! – it gave me chills and reminded me of a dream I had while I was with my Pisces-Gemini. I dreamt that he had done something to some woman and left her body out on a deserted road somewhere. In the dream I even saw him throw her purse out the window while driving fast (after disposing of her body I guess), all the while looking furtively in his rear view mirror to be sure no one saw or was following him. This was in the early stages of our relationship, and this dream just came out of the blue from nowhere. But I’ve always suspected that he has a dark side that he hides from everyone and that it surfaces/can surface at anytime. Him: Sun, Merc-Rx-Pisces, Moon & Jup-Gemini, Taurus ASC, Venus-Aries, with Mars & Saturn-Sag opposing his Moon, Jup. Creepy those Pisce-Gem men!!
@Danielle – “Venus square saturn can cause one to be to be oversensitive to rejection and my therefore have deep-seated feelings of being unworthy of love even though they may know there is no real basis for these feelings. These people may just always expect rejection because they are especially sensitive to cues that suggest they are not loved.”
Does this rule also apply for Venus opposite Saturn (or vice-versa) but even in a more intense manner? I know a few people with that config in their chart, and they are very sensitive when it comes to relationships, some preferring to be single instead of in a committed relationship.
Shadow Gemini. He killed people to prove that he was intellectually superior to all of human kind.
And I sense that he is at least bisexual by his energy. That, and well, the fact that he sodomized other men.
He preyed on homeless teenage boys that took the train. These poor kids were left to rot by their families and wanted to escape by leaving town…instead of sympathizing with them he raped them. Mainly because he was raped in the same way by an older man riding the rails when he was in the same situation. I saw the documentary on his life. He grew up in Minnesota and hated religion because it was forced onto him in an orphanage. So that is why he purposely became as evil as possible…to get back at the adults that mistreated him in that religious orphanage. I do agree with your comment about him thinking he is intellectually superior. I think all murders have arrogance as their defining quality. How could they snuff out another human being if they weren’t ya know? They’re especially vicious when they, themselves, were violated…because it’s their way of getting that lost power back. Prey becomes predator. Flip of the switch.
Or, he was just mentally sick. Sometimes that just happens!
My hubby is fascinated by serial killers. I will have to tell him about this guy.
Some things of his chart don’t add up for me, so I would interpret it the way I’d do it for a normal person.
The stellium in gemini could denote a trickster, someone who exaggarates and lies a lot. So I wouldn’t believe everything he says and assume it’s actually a lot less victims.
I think the key pattern in his chart is the t-square involving neptune, saturn and the stellium in gemini.
It’s a conflict of his world view. The need for expansion and believing in something bigger than yourself (Jupiter/Pisces) clashes with the restriction and brutality of Saturn. This suggests father issues, as Saturn represents a male authority and lead to an abandoning morality and faith in general, because of anger and desperation. The t-square points to the stellium in gemini – the trickster. The north node conjuncts his pluto/neptune. Was this his destiny all along?
The resolution of this ‘issue’ to put it lightly, would have been a reorientation on the south node in sagittarius. Regaining faith.
North Node conjunct Pluto would explain the horrible rape (Pluto) and abuse (Pluto) he went through. North Node conjunct Neptune would explain his disillusionment he felt with authority figures, and the veil dropping from him about life.
This is an illustration of how a chart can be viewed as really good or horribly bad but it is how it’s used that determines the outcome. You have the chart you are born with, period. Use it wisely.
I was trying to explain this to someone who is so down about their chart.
Uranus in the 4th house can mess a person’s roots up. Maybe he moved alot or was taken care of by someone else. It’s unpredictable.
I am quite sure that my maternal grandmother had Uranus in her 4th house and her upbringing was horrific. Her -dad- was a chronic raging drunk who beat her and her mother. He never bothered her sister and it sparked animosity between the sisters. This poor excuse of a man once made my grandmother eat an entire strawberry pie just because she wanted to go to a social event with it. He was sadistic and she tried to kill him but her sister kept her from it. My grandmother was a Scorpio with Capricorn Rising and I do believe if she’d had the shells to the shotgun, she would have blown his head off.
Wow, the father there sounds sociopathic.
Yes he was and all of this happened due to his being a violent drunk.
Several things in his chart are difficult but especially the Saturn Jupiter Venus t-square. After studying horary, I found that some of the horary rules apply to natal charts as well.
That T -square of Saturn, Venus, Jupiter, is awful. Saturn, the greater malefic is in Virgo which is the Fall of Venus (hates Venus in horary jargon) and is in the detriment of Jupiter, so “hates” jupiter as well. Saturn being the greater malefic is difficult and harmful just by nature but being square (difficult aspect) AND in the detriment and fall of Jupiter and Venus…BOTH of the benefics….Saturn destroys them. Saturn would not allow him to feel any joy. The benefics allow us to feel joy.
That same Jupiter in trine to Mars, therefore expands Mars in Cancer. (Mars in Cancer is in detriment and weak) accounts for his actions. The Sun and Mars are close enough to be considered a weak conjunction. So this was his identity
Theres more but that is enough. What a sicko.
Definitely look for receptions when looking for potential for stuff like this. Youll find some interesting stuff looking at serial killers charts. It is definitely just potential though. Someone can have the potential and choose not to act on it.
The benefics also allow us to do good
Oops I meant Mars in Cancer is in Fall.
I also forgot to explain that in Horary, there is such a thing as negative reception or rejection in other words. If you ever see a difficult aspect (sometimes even an easy one unless it is Jupiter or Venus or possibly a neutral planet like mercury) and the planets are not only aspecting but also in the detriment or fall of the other planet, take note. The aspect is probably even more difficult.
You can see abuse with this as well. Especially with Saturn and Mars involved.
The progression of mars into leo would give him strength.
Reading what he wrote, he seemed very articulate [Gemini] and I wonder if he hated himself so much, why he didn’t kill himself at the beginning to save the people he destroyed?
Having Pluto conjunct his North Node could one say that he was working towards having power over others in this lifetime?
He has narcissist quality to observe his crimes as rituals and gains in his ability to get away with his acts..his hatred of self is also self love and the inability to end his life..why I see a Satanic quality…almost close to becoming a leader….no education or direction would make him super famous…he is what darkness is ruined and nothing…
He has the configuration of abuse then rejection to get justice from abuse…where is family education..direction and so the T square of Saturn an Jupiter to Venus..Sun and Moon squared..and 2 other aspects would follow him all through his life…Saturn and Neptune is a spiritual time bomb as his transit would add more to his character to become..here is a Satanic type of Pioneer Weirdo in that industrial era..
He went to Hell basically since he felt reality in life was out of timing or place for him to be treated as a normal person..his life was a lonely lodger 2 nd rate hotel rooms and prison safe houses..is there a Hell look at the 12 th and 9th house..he is asking..back to Satanic type thinking…his tattoos would tell more of his story and the ritual of his needs to become perfect in Evil.
Excellent archaeological digging of character dysfunction that could of been delt with in the first 20 years..lets see more on these types..and realize it can be delt with..and put away for good
His birth year is 1892 – the month and day are correct.
Thanks sorry for being out of the picture…..we need to realize those days that month and hours were very hard on the whole planet and it was just one event our of millions that had that effect, so lets look at a higher visual height and compare that to some event we may have to deal with next year….while it is in the days a degree is moving so is any grand square or T square….with affecting solar or lunar activity….should be observed…
Libra rising? Cancer people (at some point in their lives) express a hatred for all mankind.
North node Gemini asks for socialisation, ? living life through SN Sagittarius, animal
nature, not pretty.
facinating guys to find out how some humans tick….thanks
Reading before how some predators choose their prey, it’s striking that they used the same words as this serial killer, innocent, oblivious, unaware of surroundings and vulnerable. It’s ok to be alert of people and their motives. (to an extent)