With a strong Saturn signature, I invariably write reams about whatever sign Saturn is transiting. With Saturn in Virgo, I went on and on about guarding (Saturn) your mind (Virgo) and learning (Saturn) to discriminate (Virgo) and the like. Some people heard me, I’m sure.
Two years later, I’m very aware of what I learned during this transit. As an example, my husband and I watch a lot of history and documentaries on a variety of topics. There is big difference between documentaries produced 20 or 30 years ago and what is produced today. Assuming that facts are reported correctly, the current programs just can’t help but spin history by their interpretation. If you’re unable to detect this, you’re in a heap of trouble if your goal is to learn something and I’ll give you an example.
The other night, we were watching a program about the building of Auschwitz. This was not an hour-long overview of the subject, it was a detailed series, Auschwitz: Inside the Nazi State. They were covering the construction of concentration camp and of course it’s chilling. The Nazis intend to house a large number of Jews. They’re going to work them and kill them as cheaply and as efficiently as possible and that’s plenty of horror right there. That facts are horrifying but the narrator says that the German’s built extra suffering into the camp. They deliberately built as much suffering as possible into their plans which of course makes no sense.
As soon as this was read, my husband and I glanced at each other and shook our heads. My husband shut the program off.
“Well let’s see what they say next,” I said. “Let’s see how they are going to justify the statement…”
They didn’t justify the statement of course. The visual was of the barracks…you can see in the picture, it’s designed to pack people in like animals, however, there is no added misery! There are not nails pounded into the boards for example.
My point is, if you failed to learn to discriminate information with Saturn in Libra, and to think (Virgo) with integrity (Saturn) it’s very likely something like this would go by you and when something like this goes by you, you get dumber, not smarter as you hand over your brain to someone who doesn’t think all that well.
I mean, I’m not defending the Nazis. I just want to see history presented as it was, not as it was, with your stupid cherry on top.
I wrote this because if you can understand it, you can also understand how important it is to learn what Saturn in Libra is trying to teach.
Are you?
Yes I see what you mean 🙂 I guess I am learning! Thank you Elsa 🙂
My husband just finished a history book, he said the guy had his facts straight. He said his research was meticulous and he admires this, however, his interpretation of events was positively asinine.
For example, the author stated the Indians had an “irrational fear” of artillery and my husband ranted for days. Clearly the author had never been around artillery. My husband says it’s just about the scariest thing in the world, you’re lucky you don’t shit yourself if it goes off anywhere near you, but here is this guy, broadcasting his ignorance as if he’s an authority. What is irrational is thinking artillery isn’t scary!
If you read this stuff and you don’t think for yourself, you’re going to be as dumb as he is…and worst of all, have no idea you stupid condition.
Can you see how you don’t want to blow this stuff off? I hope so. I hope someone can.
I don’t know, honestly. Saturn transited Virgo in my 12th house and I feel like I never integrated what went on there…
“…not as it was, with your stupid cherry on top.”
ROTFL. I hear you, Elsa. 🙂
Re Saturn in Virgo, though, I feel like I am still working on my 10th house, being seen in the world, on a platform, with a megaphone…I am not there yet. 😛
Oh yes, especially when you compare how differently the history is being taught in schools across the countries and continents. Thats why i never particularly liked history- its difficult to trust what’s written when you can’t check.
I prefer the present and the future, though lessons should be learned from the past, the details of the past are often misrepresented.
I do hope not to dumb down with my Saturn return in Scorpio lol
Another recent example…my husband has studied one of the famous murderers all this life. He wrote a report on high school so he’s just very aware of the facts in this case.
If you try to read about this guy NOW, all you can find is a bogus story, cut and pasted, blah, blah.
The bogus story is the one the murderer provided and seeing as he is a crazy murderer, he might not be the most reliable source… but no one thinks any more and this is what we’re reduced to.
I’m often wary of opening my mouth lest I reveal what I don’t know. Have always felt acutely that if I am not authority on something, I can not speak up about it, but that can’t be right can it?
I’ll scramble now to learn Saturn in Libra lessons because it’ll be going through my 7th, Scorpio, and I have a feeling what I learn now will be put to the test.
electricmind, I think there’s a way to examine one’s own motivations, (and doing so is a valuable exercise), but it can be really tough to figure out which exactly is the motivation fueling a behavior or way of thinking. Discrimination/right thinking would help with that..
I feel the same way with Documentary TV… There’s always a spin! I’m very aware of it, but my dad has been challenging me to think critically of media all my life.
When we watch TV I pose questions to my boy so he can see his way clear of what’s brainwashing and what might be factual. It isn’t enough to simply explain things. People need to develop the ability to discriminate between truth and fancy for themselves.
It’s a freakin’ travesty, the way critical thinking skills are devalued today. I wish I had known of your blog when Saturn transited Virgo, my Sun sign. It’s worked out well enough for me so I must’ve done something right.
I did learn how to, though this is something I grew up learning/studying, and discrimination was just a part of our family culture.
What I’m now learning is how to integrate other people into my process. How to discriminate together — in larger contexts, partnerships, etc. Making weigthy decisions with others has been harder for me. Saturn in Virgo was not too hard for me (1st house, plus I have moon in the 6th so work and discrimination make me feel good — not uncomfortable). Saturn through the second just reamed my chart. I needed it though!
Saturn in Virgo had me time and experiences with not loaning out my head, or allowing others to rent it free. I love that you’re reminding me of this as Libra winds up its ‘play fair’ cycle.
No one else can think my choices through.
No one else feels the choice points.
I am learning discrimating practices and see how thin the edge is between discrimating in my practices and being Prejudice because it’s easier pre judge. Virgo gave me specific examples, and rewound them asking “Is this really who you are?” when my boundaries were infiltrated.
Now while Libra balances the long-term lessons I see that I must be both fair to me, without being prejudice of all others. Exquisite process this astrological timing. I get it.
whoops that would be “Virgo HANDED me time and experiences…
That’s why I went into PR instead of journalism.
I made straight A’s in university, in the communications college, right up until my Reporting class.
I was on my way to getting a “C” because I fought with the professor every week over whether journalism could ever be truly objective. I believe we color everything we do with our own POV’s and experience, and that there is no such thing as true objectivity.
So it made more sense to go into a field where I am actively advocating for something (a cause, a product, an event)and don’t have to pretend to objectivity.
This makes me laugh. I see it every day. I can read Forbes, respected paper right? I can tell you in the subject matter area that is my day job… I can tell you who they quoted and why they don’t understand how they were manipulated.
They don’t understand the reality on the ground, the technology is so beyond their understanding that ANYTHING plausible will be written up. I feel the same way when reading the WSJ or NYT in that subject area.
The funny thing is that people READ these newspapers to be “informed” and they make decisions based upon that information. When I can tell you who’s mouth the information came out of and whether or not they’re a real source with a real understanding of the underlying pieces… But the whole of wall street reads this stuff and BELIEVES it.
It’s just a shock to the system when you stand on the inside watching and knowing. Yet for so many people what they read in the paper is taken as fact and then acted upon as if it were real. And then their shocked or angry when the realize that that wasn’t reality.
The worst of it is that the rest of the world, including the internet, will just repeat what was said or intimidated without actually parsing the wording used. Without asking people involved, without doing a single bit of work to research the information themselves. If they did they might be shocked at reality a lot sooner and then not write the same thing making us all that much dumber in the process.
@mudlikesubstance – That’s a VERY good explanation of exactly how these things work.
In PR, we love a lazy reporter and best case scenario, are happy to write the article for them!
My Mom was watching the local news the other day, and I was telling her that 90% of what she saw was coming from a paid PR person, even if it’s the govt. spokesperson or sheriff’s office spokesperson, someone has “crafted” that statement for public consumption.
I remember reading a book when Saturn was just going into Virgo on how insidious pop-culture is in brainwashing people via TV, ads, news articles, etc and being pretty impressed with it at the time. When I picked it up a few years later, as Saturn was leaving Virgo, I realized that the book is just as full of spin and brainwashing at what the author rails about from others who aren’t him and his organization.
If that doesn’t say something, I don’t know what will. 😉
This is the case in every area these days, mudlikesubstance (‘global warming’ being a glaring case in point). I wouldn’t trust anything I read in the daily press or ‘news magazines’ on the environment – you have to go right back to primary sources (the scientific papers and critiques of those) to get any idea of the actual facts (so far as they are known, which is not very)
There is a fashion now for drama-documentaries in which actors play out some of the events. It’s a huge temptation to dramatise the known facts, and to ‘flesh them out’ with fiction. That urge to dramatise has crept into every area of documentary making, I fear. I’m wrestling with it myself as I’ve been asked to write one! – I’ve already had to say more than once “No we CAN’T play it like that, it just would never have happened!”
I was very lucky myself to get a brilliant education, which taught me both at secondary (Grammar) school and at university to think for myself. I graduated in 1968.
In most areas of education things have gone steadily downhill since – kids are now spoonfed slanted information, and marked for their PC ‘ideas’ rather than their grasp of objective facts and ability to work with those towards their OWN conclusions. It’s quite shocking. Many degress now are quite worthless, judged by the old standards; and it’s hardly surprising that even ‘educated’ people can’t apply any discrimiation to what they read or see.
I guess Saturn made his first pass through my Virgo houses (12/1) when I was at school.
Saturn in Virgo really altered how I read a text and watch a movie, etc, for school, for example. It was a reminder that it’s not a one-way conversation, with the book lecturing you. You can have a discussion with it, and question it with writing on the margin and notes in order to discern. Just because it’s bounded with a cover and title, doesn’t mean it’s right.
I just fired my therapist. There’s a post here from a couple days ago about how she tried to lead me into saying that I had multiple personality disorder.
For a couple of days I just thought about it. I have been going there twice a week for six months and the fact is I represent a small income for her. I also don’t dislike her as a person. However — what she did was inappropriate in several outrageous ways and one thing I thought was that she needed more control over me so she could hold on to her income stream. That might not be true but she lost my trust and, well — I might not have been so clear and vocal and finite about that boundary a couple years ago.
I just realized I was stronger than that and…you know. Absolutely not. You can’t do that to me. If you try it, that’s the end. I’m done with getting projected on or manipulated. If I see it, I’m leaving.
eva, you have one personality…you’ve been around here a year and something like that would show itself!! ((((eva)))))
:). Thanks for the validation, Elsa. I’m glad it’s obvious. And it’s true — I’ve been through some shitty times but its always been *me* going through them!
Wow, eva, that must have been shocking to hear. Glad you went with your gut feelings and got the heck outta there!
Not shocked. Annoyed and offered a decision. Back to Elsa: Virgo to Libra; Discrimination to Boundaries….
((eva))
I hope I learned to discriminate. I have my MC-Moon-Pluto in Virgo! That transit is MUCH MUCH worse that a Saturn Return for me! I put myself through hell to learn discrimination during that transit. Fortunately the transit squared my three 7H planets in Gemini and I learned a lot about being discriminatory in relationships, which has served me well with Saturn in Libra where those same 7H planets received trines. I’m not perfect, says the Virgo Moon, but I’m getting better every day. 😉
I was still a young girl the first time Saturn went through Virgo in my life. It’s natally in Gemini. My parents nearly divorced during that time due to my fathers misbehavior (putting it lightly). This time as a parent myself, I had to make the same decision as my parents and I chose differently (not to stay).
((((eva)))) that is ridiculous.
I am much more discerning now, I attribute that to your influence, Elsa – I started visiting your blog/boards when Saturn was in Virgo. 🙂
Critical thinking skills aren’t taught in school and should be.
What burns my a$$ is getting forwarded emails from my relatives of different political persuasions with complete crap in them. Not sure if they think they’re going to convert me or not, but the content of the emails is pure junk. All they have to do is a simple internet search or fact check.
As my mother has reminded me my entire life, I was born in the Show Me State and I have to check the facts! I only lived there for two and a half weeks as my father was in the military and he received orders for Korea (this was 1955) the day after I was born, but Missouri’s reputation rubbed off on me!
Indigenous to this contenient a day never passes that I hear, see false history projected into the lives of whoever is listening and watching a new cast, a newspaper, a commercial, etc. For the last 100+ years this country literaly pushed my ancestors aside right out of their homes, killed their dogs and marginalized them into assumed obscurity. Our leader (Louis Riel) was hung for treason back in 1885. BUT today after mounting evidence it has been (and continues) to be proven that he was far from treasonist. He is in fact now recognized as Manitoba’s Father of Confederation and his children the Metis continue to educate the masses who were given for free the property of the Metis that was illegally taken by the Government. This is presently being looked at by the Supreme court of Canada. And I must comment that during the 2nd world war the Canadian Army knew when they enlisted a Metis they didn”t need to show them how to use a rifle as they were already very well established in using them. No one could come close to the skill of the Metis who were adept with weapons, as their livlihood consisted of hunting and trapping during the infamous fur trade and buffalo hunts.
Can you imagine the “irrational fear” of an hollywood actor or a self professed gun owner not shitting his pants attempting that! Now that’s a movie I’d watch
I was thinking some more about this Elsa and I wanted to say that I agree with you about the Nazi Germany stories. I’ve had the thought a couple times that it’s already bad enough without embellishment. I can’t remember where I read the story that the Nazis put people on trains, fed them very salty soup but did not fill the water cisterns so that people could drink water on the train — purposely so that everyone would be thirsty and miserable.
Well you’d believe anything about the Nazis at this point but I thought, look, those guys were evil motherf**ers it’s absolutely true, but there’s no need to put stuff in there you can’t prove. There’s already enough evidence.
i had to become very careful about what i ate (first house) – popped two food related disorders.
also totally redefined my sense of identity… discernment, primarily… in letting other’s people’s attempts to define me have much credence over what _i_ knew…
Josephine – I actually had a PR person say to my face “well that’s why we don’t brief the NYT or WSJ they’ll just take it from you and you understand the _subject matter_”
We are reviled in the industry and struggle to get advertising BECAUSE we refuse to write what they want. Oh and when we update a story, it’s not updated so the original disappears (unless it’s someone’s name misspelled and then politeness dictates otherwise) we update it at the end of the story. It pisses off the PR people like nobody’s business. I see it as a 2 edged sword, we have to live with our mistakes being recorded publicly also. And we have to point out those mistakes if someone asks or notices or points it out to us.
There are PR people from certain parts of the world that try to manipulate me and that struggle to understand what we do and why we do it and it comes down to one thing – ethics and our ethics lie with our readers first and last. It’s very very uncommon in our little pool of fish.
But we struggle for survival. So I’m working on moving us more towards consulting because when you can dig out stories that spawn lawsuits you can also see trends and directions in an industry and that can be valuable to the right people.
Sunlover – that is a beautiful reminder. I do love my books but most are from the library so I don’t write in the margins. I used to in my school books though.
It’s not just a discussion with you and the book if you pass on your notes, then it becomes almost generational. 😀
Wth a month left, this is a great time to remind your readers about THE LESSON.
I’m going to attribute what I’ve seen recently as unbalanced-unfair-relationships-and-individuals-half*ssing/making-unsubstantial-contributions-and-not playing-by-the-rules as the manifestation. Fuzzied lines in relationships makes cooperation feel impossible. I want to do my part in a way that also advances my interests.
Tough stuff but valuable to learn.