Hello Elsa! First time messenger here.
Every time Saturn comes around and conjuncts my Moon and Sun, it absolutely kicks my ass. This time I have Pelvic Inflammatory Disease. That in and of itself – fine. Tolerable. What I don’t understand is why it’s always so hard for me to get proper treatment and help during these times. It took so many emergency room visits and constant pushing to finally get people to listen and believe me.
This seems to be a major component of Saturn: being ignored and abandoned. My question is, why is it so? Is Saturn affecting me, making me less able to communicate? Or, is it affecting the people around me, making them less likely to understand and help? Or both? Why is Saturn so brutal, yet also always, so silencing? I feel this might be interesting to discuss. Hope you are well!
Blocked & Curious
United States
You’re certainly asking the right person about this. I have this problem and I’ve written about it for years. It’s a Saturn / Neptune problem for the most part. People are unable to discern that you’re a real person with a nebulous or hidden burden.
People can’t see my spine. If I show them a picture of my spine – well, Elsa, you got that off the internet!
I got in a car accident one time, my car was totaled. I had a broken rib but I had to go to the doctor three times for them to see it. This, in spite of pointing at my rib, stating, “It hurts like hell, right here.”
You have a Saturn Neptune exchange in your chart. See Neptune in Saturn-ruled Capricorn.
Also, Saturn is currently transiting Neptune-ruled Pisces and legions of people are having this problem right now. In your case, Saturn is transiting you’re Mercury in Pisces, exasperating the problem. What you perceive is happening, is happening!
Beyond that validation, you’ll fare best if you take responsibility here. Should the doctor see you? Yes! But they don’t or they can’t so now what?
I’ve learned to arrive at the doctor with a list of whatever I want to cover. Just making the list clarifies things. Prioritizes them. You don’t want to get in there with your twenty minutes and meander around without saying anything the doctor can grasp. It also shows the doctor, your serious intention of getting your problem resolved.
You want them to see you, right? Remember to look them in the eye. A lot of this stuff is confusing, so try to keep it simple and straight-forward, relating to your doctor as one human to another.
If people think you’re shady, which they do, with Saturn Neptune, you have to be earnest to combat this. When you do find a doctor that “sees” you, stick with them and if they miss something, try forgiving them; here’s why:
It’s not their fault, there is something in your aura or your style of communicate that blurs them over. Also, most doctors know there are people like you and I. I have no problem telling a new doctor that I’m typically hard to diagnose so I try to be careful and exacting in my reporting, so they can better discern. Whatever their initial reaction to that, they eventually find out I’m right. This knowledge helps us better deal with things that come up,
This is a real problem, but it belongs to you. I can’t just say, “red spot on my leg.” I have to take a picture of my leg…. the doctor sees it and eventually we discover I am allergic to sorbitol and also maltitol. These things are in a lot medications. If I take them, I itch and my breathing is restricted, but can you see how it actually is confusing? I am not going to walk in and have the doctor say, “Sugar alcohol allergy!”
Just assume you’re walking into a doctor’s office with a cloud of fog around you. You have to make some hard edges, like an outline of something so the doctor has a decent chance of guessing correctly!
If a doctor correctly diagnoses something on the first try, I consider it a minor miracle. It rarely happens. That said, my Saturn Neptune situation is much stronger than yours. Your problem is flaring now because of the Saturn in Pisces transit. It should ease.
Good luck!
Do you have trouble getting diagnosed? Tell us!
I have Neptune in my 6th house natally, they can never figure out what’s wrong.
oh me too. right on the cusp (& conjunct my Nnode)… its crazy making 🫥
This probably has some origin in the childhood when the querent was not seen or heard in certain moments of pain, physical and emotional, or frustration. Or the request was met with an ill-suited solution (often painful).
I see this in my mother who is constantly under various ailments but only seems to choose the most invasive and brutal methods of cure. To her if it hurts it should work double. Then further suffering ensues.
I also notice similar patterns of not being seen or heard in myself with a 12H Saturn. I think there must be some root of perceiving oneself as wretched to begin with, wretched and therefore ‘not worth it’. Lots of work and back and forth here
Saturn in the 12th = Saturn Neptune.
Also, thanks for the interesting point of view.
12 H= Saturn Neptune, what an overdue Eureka moment!
I also realise that with this I sometimes (un)consciously exclude or shun myself from groups and settings to avoid being excluded by them.
Doctors are a form of medium between us and our well-being so they may receive the ‘’message’ even without a deliberate decision on our behalf.
The things Elsa wrote about looking for ‘the one’ through the right verbal and non-verbal communication definitely helps. It is often about us deciding to help ourselves in the first place
Wow. Saturn and sun in my 12th…
oh yes totally true!!
I have a hard time getting diagnosed – Saturn in 9th square Neptune in 12th. One memorable occasion, I was referred to a pain specialist, following worsening back pain. From the moment he met me, he was convinced there was nothing wrong with me. This guy actually reduced me to tears the very first time I met him, he was that dismissive. It got to the point where I was begging him for an MRI referral, he was refusing. I sat in his office and said to him “I know something’s wrong here, just please help”. After much tutting and scolding, he reluctantly referred me (51-week wait can you believe!).
About a month after my scan, the specialist actually called me personally, with the nicest demeanour you could imagine, a complete about face, to tell me my L5/l4 disc was basically ruined.
Funnily enough, I refused to see him again.
I also have Neptune in Cap and some other hints of Saturn-Neptune. I feel that I’m not taken seriously until I start crying! As soon as the dam breaks, and my emotions are actually showing, then I get a completely different reaction from people who have power to help me. I can’t feign tears and it takes a lot to make me cry, so this can be extremely frustrating when I know something is building but not yet peaked. Verbalizing my concern simply isn’t enough. I’ve been learning to allow myself to be more vulnerable with others, and it’s helping me immensely.
I have Mars at 27 degrees 12th house next to Saturn at the 29th degree of my 12th house (Gemini). Any thoughts?
I’d say you’re one of us. 🙂
Original messenger here. Don’t know whether to feel comforted or irate that so many others have to go through this same thing. I suppose both. Saying I’m not being perceived as a real person when in need rather hit home for me; however, the flip side is, whenever someone else is in need of aid, they always come to me. I am their first call. The first to be reached out to. I have Saturn in my 1st House, loosely conjuncting my Ascendent. And certainly look it. I have a very ‘adult’ face, with Roman nose and sharp cheekbones, I am quite tall and lean, I look so compantant. At social gatherings I will always be approached to be asked where does this go or what should I do or when is this happening etc etc. Doesn’t matter whether I’m lead or not, they will ask me to lead. So whenever I’m struggling, I feel I must just look wrong to people. I’m wondering now if this is another element of the Saturn / Neptune influence. Or maybe my 1st House Uranus is also just making me stick out like a sore thumb. Interesting thoughts. Thank you.
You’re a compassionate authority figure… whose “realness” morphs.
I can relate. I have Saturn in Pisces in the 8th. I have Neptune in Capricorn in the 6th. I’ve always had a deep feeling of unrest in times where I feel physically vulnerable. I rarely see a doctor. As an adult I have hashimotos. An autoimmune disease that feels impossible to explain to others. I often feel others can see I’m struggling with symptoms and don’t understand or think I’m faking them. Even though I try hard to manage them under a blanket. I do not think others are actually even noticing and especially not judging.. that’s just the way it feels in my brain.
I have saturn quincux neptune in 6th. I’ve had a history of Dr’s missing things. I knew my son was breach when pregnant, they didn’t realize until towards the end of pregnancy that it was going to be an issue even though I told them repeatedly. I went to Dr with pain in back, said I probably slept funny. sent me home. A few days later I receive a call to get to the hospital ASAP, not to alarm me but I could die. Pulmonary embolism. Went to Dr for insanely painful bruised foot, sent me home. said it was nothing just bruised. A week later I go back because I’m in a lot of pain. Turns out it was fractured and I needed a cast. It’s interesting learning about all of this and looking back at how these things happened.
Honestly, if you’re a woman with a problem, people don’t want to listen to you/kind of insist that you’re lying. I presume that’s probably a lot of this.
I agree. I’ve often wondered the same, but hoped not. I do live in a small town.
I’ve been dangerously misdiagnosed on several occasions, and if I hadn’t pushed hard, I would have died on two occasions…Neptune in the 5th libra, sextile Saturn and Pluto in the 3d, Leo…Fortunately, I have little trust in the medical establishment…..
I developed White Coat syndrome. Drs believe that ‘now’ they have watched me shoot into unsafe zones, while taking my blood pressure.
I have Uranus/Moon Leo/Pluto Virgo 6th(con Dec). Some books call it moon in containment. I had a lot of childhood illness and almost died at 6 yrs– l saw waves of beautiful colours…and l was not afraid.
The illness l have been managing for for than 20 yrs is incurable, but manageable. I take No pharma meds but l use herbal like White Willow for inflam. and Hawthorn for heart.
Nept. Scorp sextile Saturn Cap. ( both rulers) helps.
I take the long way around male Drs/Dentists of a certain age and attitude. I am done putting up with it.
Whenever, l look at that spinal pic. l think Feldenkrais Method …and l too hope you are not sitting for too long writing and working, Elsa.
To all of you, l am sorry you are suffering. I have given up on the idea of total wellness…l go for well enough. Yesterday, l was well enough to walk up the street to hear an ‘all abilities choir’. It was joyous and a very good use of church buildings too. I even sang a few songs and felt better for it– my Taurus sun (3rd) squ Moon (6th) but rules it too. Taurus rules the throat– lots of throat health issues about (trans.Uranus Taurus perhaps) My Leo friend’s father, a Leo too, has had his throat cancer return…he is an old devil and will likely be ok…he is milking it for all it is worth– full drama! I kind of admire his chutzpah.
Saturn in Pisces conjunct 1degee my midheaven. And Neptune in opposition to a large stellium sun, merc, mars, Nn, moon. I feel people often don’t see me or they project onto me what they want to see. I also noticed years ago that I have a tendency to fall into other people speech patterns, mannerisms, accents without even realizing it… only recently paying attention to it as a prominent feature in my chart. It can be very disheartening at times. I do feel it gives my massive amount of earth a bit more of a willingness to roll with it than my chart would suggest. So that’s good? 🙂
oh gosh thankyou for writing this [O.P. & all repliers]. i have tears 😢 because its something i never get to talk about its one of my curses. never heard, dismissed, assumed to be a neurotic idiot [because of cognition but also anxiety of me knowing noone listens].. & misdiagnosed repeatedly wven when i show them proof… & if i do get diahmgnosed correctly once in a very rare while it seems like a fairytale magic event that somehow disapoears again later…
ie: most obvious, had a broken vertebrae for 8 years when i was about 20-22… woeking physical jobs -i would last one out at night kitchen in nursing home i would crawl to my car because my back was stuck after 12 hr day but mopping floor the most. i had 2 xrays over years, both different general drs said nothing wrong. so i took 10+ ibuprofen a day to try in the hope they would help. i then got stomaxh ulcers later years… i eventually spent a whole weeks pay went to chiropractor, he said straight away without seeing xrays something wrong
then he saw the old xrays & drew on them to show me where break was asjed what i did about 8-10 years ago… well i said i was falling off horses in a training course, that we rode all diffetent kind of horses & the oldest [country cowboy!] fellow deliberately use to take me wild rides through bush to make me fall off because i was a good rider but not ar getting on the horses…
anyway… have had so many similar since then… including DV rib injuries whete somehow i didnt die but of course the xrays didnt show damage even though i told them the noises i heard & will never forget & i couldnt wear a bra for my Ecups for 3 months… another got hit by a car, nothing showed up.. despite bumper broken in 3 places, now 3 years later ligamebt & nerve oain that slightly dislocates to the side & annoys me daily even when im sleeping… another the latest i know i had a kidney stone -dr said i had appendicitis… i said no it doesnt feel like that to me, dont think so… by the time i went for scan week later .. i peed out the kidney stone at the radiology because i drank 3 litres of water in 2hrs… dr didnt believe me… that was nearly 2 year ago… i have numerous otherlongterm chronic things that are just totally stupidshit to even talk about
im just use to not talking about because theres no point … but now i have to participate in a pain clinic because i live in area where drug addiction is rampant- its the law.
AND they tell me the program is to teach you that pain comes from your brain..
if they knew i had saturn 1H, squaring mars and sun [ic], with neptune 6H exact cusp… they would know… dont waste my time, im already diligently doing everything i can because im all i have… i cant rely on anyone.
i wish to be as courageous as you all speaking up, but im a blithering fkn idi0t or an absent minded twit whenever i have to eventually see someone professional…. even if i do get brave enough to take a note with me, thinking I’ll speak up for myself properly….
wishing good luck to you aLL 🙏🙏🙏🤞🙌
{~*~}
Elsa mentioned that Saturn is transiting the OP’s natal Mercury in Pisces, making things even harder right now. This was my experience too with this conjunction…when Saturn transited my natal Mercury in Capricorn in 2018 I got hit with some major health issues and it took a while to get them figured out.
I’ve had lots of medical issues over the years so I’m sort of used to it (I’m also a tough-to-diagnose person), but that was a really tough transit!
LIFELONG issues getting doctors to listen to me, list or no list, calm or not, proper vocabulary or “playing dumb” to assuage their egos…on and on and on.
12th house Saturn in Pisces Anaretic 29th degree. Neptune in Scorpio 6th House. (yes, I am quite sensitive to medicines.) Can I *ever* get past this?! Just yesterday, had an oncologist say we were wasting each other’s time, even though SHE insisted I have the appointment and I was referred by a specialist, after one “oops” biopsy and a repeat done. She even asked how I was tolerating a med, and I had to remind her she hadn’t prescribed it to me yet! FFS!
Maybe TMI, but I mention to illustrate the degree to which this affects me. I haven’t a CLUE how to turn this dynamic around! It’s stressful, frustrating and costly, both in money and literal pieces of me! It doesn’t inspire confidence in healthcare in my golden years, that’s certain. I’m open to advice.
I wonder how this falls in my chart. I have a huge and growing list of health issues, and I’ve seen about 55 different doctors!
I’ve cried and battled and tried …..omg the horror of it all.
I have Capricorn moon, 2nd House 24deg; Pisces Mercury & Venus in 3rd House; Saturn in Aries with my Sun and Mars in Aries in the 4th House.
Anyone? Im brain fogged after 12 hours on the job.