Undermining By Questioning A Person’s Motives

NeptuneIf you’re confused about Neptune in astrology, this might help.

I was talking to my husband before we married

“People suspect your motives,” I said. “They think you are up to something… up to no good. It’s the same thing that happened when we were kids. Happened in 2003 too, remember.”

“In 2003?”

“Yeah, that guy told me you were oppressing me to liberate yourself,” I said. (This is the ultimate insult to a Special Forces soldier who is sworn to liberate the oppressed).“Oh yeah,” he said. I could feel him flare. “Why do people do this, P? Did they do this to the AMF?”  The AMF was my ex.

“Never. No one ever said anything negative about him. He enjoyed full support.”

“So what is it they say?”

“Oh, it’s all undermining stuff. They insinuate things.  I don’t think he’s telling you the whole story,” I said. “You’re being lied to, sort of thing. You’re being taken down a garden path you little fruit. You naive little fool. Unbeknownst to you, blah, blah, blah.”

“Oh for Godsakes. Do they not know how well we know each other? Do they not know I talk to you 7 or eight times a day? Ten times a day?”

“No, I guess they don’t know that. I don’t know what they know. We trigger people is all. They look as us and see… who the hell knows what they see. Some people see us clearly though. They really do, and we’ve not had this before, it’s nice.”

Have you ever launched or experienced this kind of attack?

27 thoughts on “Undermining By Questioning A Person’s Motives”

  1. never launched…not sure if I’ve ever experienced it either…tho’ people like to jack w/me a lot for no apparent reason *shrug*

    p.s. it is EXTREMELY obvious, to anyone w/a brain, that the soldier makes you VERY happy…anyone who cares even one whit for you should be happy for you two! 🙂

    1. I feel like I am being undermined when I feel I am told to limit my questioning so I should limit my wonder…??? Hell No I will ask til I am Satisfied F You Neptune

  2. I have never attacked someone in this manner. I do have people alround me constantly attacking me in such a way. Me, my kids, my kids fathers nd those around us that are close to us.

  3. Oh yeah, people attack me this way all the time — accusing me of being both the dupe and the perp. Neptune conjunct Asc.

  4. oh, sigh. i used to see this stuff fly around all the time.
    i dated a couple people who did that. very unpleasant. but educational. in that it helped me realize the necessity to see for myself and make my own judgements rather than be lazy and assume other people know what they’re talking about. and to get away (fast!) from people who tried to tell me who i was and what _my_ motivations were. that can become a creepy kind of unravelling. and it’s subtle, at first. or it was to me.

  5. every time i get into a relationship, someone else has to say or do something belittling or destructive about it. it never fails. i seem to pick some off-the-wall characters and situations to partner up with, which is probably what ‘does it’ to make people so insecure, but i’m sure there’s some projection involved as well since it’s a constant.

  6. A good friend of mine was dating a dog and a few of us tried to warn her off him (he’d come onto a couple of her friends). She never listened of course..five years down the line she found out he had another girlfriend that he’d been dating for 8! Dont tend to stick my oar in unless it’s a close friend and i can see they’re unhappy. Friends warned me off a guy once and i didnt listen either but they were right. I guess it depends on who’s doing the judging.

  7. Elsa, the story of the kind of opposition your relationship has always faced really brings to mind the Pluto/Demeter/Persephone myth. It’s as if people see the soldier as this plutonic figure and you as the innocent girl Persephone. They see you as being unknowingly snatched up by him and taken into his plutonic realm.
    And they react by taking the Demeter role of endlessly attempting to drag you away. And just as in the myth, they’ve succeeded, partly, in that you are only getting to spend around half your adult life with him rather than all of it.

    And thinking of the myth, it’s interesting that the story is never told from Persephone’s point of view. I mean, maybe she was enjoying the upgrade in status from mummy’s little girl to Queen of the Underworld. Maybe she loved being worshiped by her husband and reveled in her new sex life.
    As in the myth, I think the focus of the detractors is on his power and intent and not on what you’re getting out of the relationship.

  8. Fey – that’s enormously interesting and well said. I agree with you entirely, but here’s the punch line:

    In reality, I’m the Pluto figure in the relationship. Hall of mirrors maaaan. 🙂

  9. Aaah…very interesting but not so surprising considering you both have Pluto in virgo, i.e Pluto manifesting through the feminine.

  10. Yep. I know how this plays out. Neptune MC squaring Pisces Moon conjunct ASC. If a day goes by without something like this, I’m surprised.

  11. I am a long time lurker here and I have never posted before but I am now because I am confused. Elsa I have always taken you to be Saturn. I have always felt this projected from you. I know you have your packed 8th house w/scorpio there, but how can you be both Saturn and Pluto when they oppose each other.

  12. I love Fey’s depiction of Persephone and see it play out in my life so I CAN laugh. My husband is the Crab Man and I the Deep Water Lizard who goes love the outcome. DING!

  13. When I read your posts I feel your Saturn being projected in your writings and teachings. I respect it. I have never felt your pluto projected into your posts. I assumed this was intentional on your part. I have always thought you controlled your pluto. I do not know you personally but if I had to label you with a planet, pluto would not be in my top 3. I was shocked to read that you are the pluto figure in your relationship. I guess that is Neptune.

    1. Hmm. Baffling, Mary. I wonder what others think. I thought I was seen as primarily, Plutonian. I will ask… new post coming.

  14. I made the assumption that we are of the same age range and you would have Saturn oppose Pluto natally.

  15. This happens to me ALL the time, except it’s towards just me. People smirk, and make comments, and raise eyebrows, and allude to things that just are *completely wrong* as if it’s common knowledge. And if I try to correct, I get some sort of, “Oh, sweetie, it’s okay. You’re just wrong about who you are! *tsk tsk*” I… am? wtf.

    Like Stephanie, Neptune (loosely) conjunct ASC… & there are only a few people who really see through to the “real” me. 🙂

  16. Rach, I feel for you. You sound like you’ve got this baaaaad. I have seen people like you. It’s sad. 🙁

  17. It’s really weird, but this happens to me quite frequently as well, but only with females. I am absolutely clueless as to why, but it’s happened my whole life. Neptune in the 5th square Uranus in the 2nd … does that have anything to do with it? It truly is gender specific.

  18. Aww, thanks, Elsa. Sag rising, so I’m finding ways to laugh about it, but it’s definitely frustrating sometimes. 🙂

    And Fritzy, wow gender-specific is random. 🙁

  19. I have made my views known when asked, to close friends in unhappy relationships, and my views are very strong, but I don’t know if they reached the level of undermining. I hope not.

    Anybody who tries to undermine a relationship of *mine* is met with deaf ears, even though looking back I should have been more open to hearing other views.

  20. Gee this post fascinates me, I think I was here in my twenties – I certainly don’t instigate – but I “see” this happen to people. I used to cop this when I was young and full of energy – people would voice this type of attack.

    Now, hmm, perhaps people are “thinking” on it around me. Nept in 6th. . .

    People are fascinated by love relationships like yours Elsa if they haven’t experienced one themselves.

  21. I’ve had to keep thinking on this post to reach a solid view on it.

    I think it’s because I’ve experienced it as well in my own beautiful relationship.

    I was trying to work out what was the cause of undermining.

    If both Elsa and the soldier are transparent with e/other – then it might attract an undermining person who has a hidden agenda. So that person accused the man in this case the soldier of having to have a hidden agenda, because that person could ONLY imagine that to be the truth – especially if the woman (Elsa) was such a Rose Bud – get me?

    This is a facinating subject – and this is Neptune? Wow.

  22. For the record, that guy apologized to both me and my husband. He was on the fringe of the SF community and projecting, I suppose. In whatever case, he made a sincere apology to us and we accepted it.

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