Relationship Karma – The Worst Thing That Can Happen To You (According To My Mother)

sonah22 asks on Relationship Karma:

“This is probably a silly question, but my cynical side wonders-what does it matter if it’s going to be dealt with in another life? The person will just forget!”

sonah22 – it depends on what you believe. I have watched people for a long time. It’s clear some have a very hard row to hoe. Why is that?

Some people are more scrupulous in their dealings with people and if you ask them why they will generally tell you they have learned that is all comes back to you.

Some people understand this when they are nine years old. My son is an example of that. He’s got his Sun conjunct Saturn and he just seems to know. I was closer to thirty before really I figured this out although I improved slowly over the years. There gets to be a point where you can’t hide all the bodies.

I have said before that I don’t have any knowledge of past lives / future lives and the like. I just don’t know anything about it in spite of growing up introduced to the idea. I am closely associated with the soldier though, who does claim intense and immense knowledge of prior lives and I find him credible.

If you met him you would probably find him credible too but in whatever case he assures me it all comes around. He also assures me that people who think it doesn’t will find out differently and wish they’d have listened / done things differently. He is speaking from experience of course. He thinks anyone who thinks it doesn’t come back on you should be able to take one look at his life – how hard it is and have no question in their mind.

This reminds me of a post awhile back where I asked people if they listened to other people and heeded their warnings or took their advice. Most people said they did not. I was surprised. I take advice from people who I respect so this is that sort of situation.

After listening to him and thinking about things for the last few years I have come to agree with him – things do come back. My grandfather (Henry, pictured) taught the same thing when I was five-years-old but you know… I don’t have Saturn on my Sun, now do I? So I didn’t listen. But I am old enough now and I have been beaten to a pulp by this thing we call “life” and at this point I really do try NOT to cut corners. As a matter of fact, I’ll give you yet another perspective.

When I was in my late 20’s and figuring this out, my sister shared her theory. She told me if I really didn’t want to see someone again – if I had really had enough of them, I should get out of the relationship as cleanly as possible.

She said if you left a big mess you would have to meet the person again in another life (she has always believed they existed) and go through the bullshit all over again. I applied this at the time (on faith it might be correct) and I have applied it since and my life has gone a lot smoother.

Now I don’t know if this is true or not. But I would not be surprised if you steal from someone in this life you must pay them double the next. Triple maybe, or maybe more depending. Or maybe you’ll just owe them a little or you’ll have to pay someone else who pays someone else but I’ll tell you this:

I routinely run into people who I extend myself to because I have the consistent and very powerful feeling that I owe them an extra kindness. I have no idea the root of this or where it comes from but it definitely exists as does the opposite situation.

Sometimes someone taps me for something that is just way out of whack. They never do anything for me, it is a one-sided situation but for some reason they think they can impose themselves on me. It’s like it’s a habit or something. “There’s Elsa, I go tap her, she’s always helpful…”

When I get the idea someone as run out of rope, I quit putting out and it feels as if I am supposed to quit putting out. It’s as if they have used up all their favors, see? The score is 1100 to 0 and that’s that.

In those situations I feel as if I am part of their karma somehow. Where they used to be able to skate, the tide is turning, see? I feel I am part of that tide when then light on my porch is no longer burning.

Long story short, I still don’t know about past lives because I have no personal firsthand experience or knowledge but I do know you are responsible for your actions. If you leave a trail of bodies behind you eventually people are going to notice and then the worst thing that can happen to you will happen to you.

That is (I was taught this by my mother), decent people won’t want anything to do with you.

Yeah, when decent people don’t anything to do with you, that’s when you know you’ve got BIG trouble.

These are my thoughts, what are yours?

56 thoughts on “Relationship Karma – The Worst Thing That Can Happen To You (According To My Mother)”

  1. Thanks for your response, Elsa-

    “There just gets to be a point where you can’t hide all the bodies.”

    This is so true-I see it in little things. Like when I was younger I was a bully, and when I was in high school I was bullied. How long could I keep on being a bully before people just started hating me? It had to be evened out, and it’s as simple as that. And yeah, I was a kid-but I had to learn this lesson.

    Eventually you start carrying the bodies, whether you know it or not. You start to ooze it, even if you think you’re a good person. I’ve noticed this romantically-like if you’re a game-playing type, as you get older, people pick up on it-I’m thinking of men I meet who scream “player” and I avoid them. It’s because you can only hide it for so long before you have to purge it somehow through kindness or intense self-reflection.

    And your sister’s philosophy is one I definitley need to learn-I’m not the best at making a clean break-that’s Aries moon reactivity for you!

    Your grandmother is so so right-that’s an incredible thought.

    I think my question came from an egotistical place-a lot of these principles require putting one’s ego aside and having faith in something larger-something I’m always learning to sort out and hold on to.

    Thanks again!

  2. i can peg compulsive liars pretty fast… they’re always blaming other people for deception.
    it’s the same kind of thing. you create the world you make. nothing else. and the repercussions of that, well… i figure, if you don’t learn a lesson once, you get to keep trying until you do. so i, personally, would rather get the harder ones over with rather than trying to avoid them. the universe is pretty persistent that way, and if a little tap on the shoulder doesn’t work, the bludgeouns just keep getting bigger.

    and, yeah. it all comes back. the tally’s in your soul… the shape you make of who you are carrying the mark of all your actions and intentions and shapes the energy you put out into the world and what it gives back to you. the more you fit in with right action, the less regrets you have, regardless of the outcome.

    in my mind. and i think regrets are pointless except as the first step towards learning and change.

  3. I agree. This is interesting, this is the second time today that past lives has come up. I believe in karma and past lives, I have had dreams that confirm this and deja vu also. If you put out a certain type of energy that is what you recieve. You reap what you sow.

  4. I’m like your son. I knew at a very young age but also, I was just born “nice”. That’s what everyone always says about me – nice, conscientious. Honestly, it made me a freaking doormat. Naive, trusting, all the stuff most kids grow out of at a young age, actually took me a long time to adjust to the way the world really works. And it made me so sad to realize how crappy people will be, some just for the sake of it.

    My life has been hard but the big hardships came from things outside my influence or control and from other people. Honestly, looking back, it’s freaking astonishing the amount of crap hurled my way.

    Years ago, I was really into astrology. I had my palm read, my chart read by several pros and then I was trying to study it myself. One thing they all said universally was that my life would turn for the better in mid-40s. It’s true! I’d almost given up hope. The reason, they said, or one of them said, is that in past lives I apparently always got myself into situations where I was abused or held back or mistreated, and I just kept taking it. So this life I was to learn to stand on my own, look after myself, and THEN I had to be of service to others. I’ve always enjoyed helping others but my career wasn’t focused on that. Now that I’m devoted to it, things are better. I’m telling you, miracle like things have happened – more good help and freaky assistance than I ever dared hope. Sometimes I wonder when the rug will get pulled out again because I just don’t know this life of “good luck” and “good things” and “great people”. It’s all new.

    So there’s something to this. I do believe that. I just have a hard time with the concept that the person who does nothing wrong gets the living crap kicked out of them all the time. That’s tough to endure. At a certain point, a person breaks. Anyway, things are better.

  5. When I was a kid I had an experience that solidly put the idea of past lives into my head before I’d even heard of the concept, so I have no doubt about it. I also knew when I was a kid that my life wasn’t going to be easy… and that was before things went downhill. It felt like to me that my childhood was a crash course in getting me back up to speed to where I should have been so I could continue with this shindig. Sometimes I do feel like an old man…

  6. I definitely believe in past lives and karma and I learned too through experience that it NEVER pays to crap on people. I do try to be mindful of keeping all my transactions clean. When I was younger I behaved badly towards men and it really came back to me big time. The tide seems to be turning now though in terms of life becoming what I would hope for. I have also had astrologers tell me my life will improve exponentially from nid forties which sounds about right. Age has been such a blessing for me. I was born feeling old and I found life in my teens and twenties a total minefield.

  7. They never do anything for me, it is a one-sided situation but for some reason they think they can impose themselves on me. It’s like it’s a habit or something. “There’s Elsa, I go tap her, she’s always helpful…”

    This happens to me all the time. Everyone asks me everything – all kinds of advice. I expect that someday someone will call me and ask if I know here their missing sock is.

    In biz I can usually spot the users.
    last night Woody Allen’s Crimes and Misdemeaners was on and its the story of a man who murders his mistress and goes on to only experience more and more success while he is waiting for the karma shoe to drop. it doesn’t.

    In buddhism my monk tells us that karma ripens are the results of 100’s and thousands of life times of sewing the seeds of samsara. I don’t know. I guess it depends on your belief in future lives.

    I hate to think i pay the price now for something I had no spiritual clue about then.

    I’m watching Bernie Madoff taken into custody now. I thought he’d kill himself first.He is that kinda coward 70 plus years old — 20 years of defrauding people- Completely decimating more than a generation of philanthropic organizations and individual families.

    He will go to jail and die soon but he’s had a life of celebrity and privilege.

    It all depends on your view of happiness, success, punishment, etc and what you can live with. He admitted he’s been doing that since the early 90’s.

    I will tell you that in the toughest moments of my life, the people who have stepped forward to give me the greatest comfort, support and gifts have ALWAYS been total strangers. I try to pass that on

  8. PS – I don’t know if anyone else is watching the attitudes of the ‘victims’– Some feel there is no point to anger, some have confidence in the justice system, even though the SEC clearly failed them.

    Did they ‘sew the seeds that brought this”?

    Is this some karmic lesson on the part of the investors? I saw a 90 y.o. man working as a greeter in the supermarket- he was defrauded.

    Sometimes I get more comfort in the concept of randomness and that great philosophical idiom
    “Sh*t Happens” but everyday I try to just ‘do the right thing’ regardless.

  9. The idea of past lives really depresses me. I hope it’s not real, but astrology is about the one thing that makes me think it is.

    This is reminding me of telling my shrink that I always thought I must have been a serial killer in a past life, and she said, “Oh, I used to think I was Hitler.” She’s Jewish.

    I guess I must have been a colossal asshole in the last one (Libra north node), because I’m a shit magnet now. I try my best to be as nice to people as I can (really, who needs more assholes in the world?), and I can recall in great horrible detail the few times I could not manage it, and I will beat myself up for them forever and ever and ever.

  10. I’ve come to the conclusion (after being told a few times) that I am some sort of embodiment of karma in a lot of people’s lives.

    I too, have always treated people as responsibly as I could, apologizing instantly for bad behavior and trying my best to do things ‘right’. I recently became frustrated because I don’t seem to be getting ahead by doing the right thing all the time. I don’t think I have a solution for that. But I can no more decide to- as you say- start leaving a trail of bodies than I could decide to deploy a bomb on an orphanage. I have a very keen guilty conscience, always have, and I won’t suffer to disappoint myself.

  11. I guess I want to believe in re-incarnation, because I have known more than one person who most definitely has gotten away with all kinds of disgusting behavior in this lifetime. But I am on the fence also – I really do not know if anyone could really prove this to me and leave me with no doubt. Like any other “faith” I guess, you have to suspend “logic” most of the time, if this is what you want to believe is true. I think this is certainly a nicer idea than thinking all the “good” people go to one place, and the “bad” go to another.

  12. I like your explanation of “they used up all of their favors.” I have been feeling that way about a lot of people lately. I’m not angry at most of the people I feel this way towards, I’m just facing the reality of how giving they are willing to be and what I expect. I feel that as a Pisces I’ve come a long way.

  13. Same here Amethyst. “facing the reality of how giving they are willing to be and what I expect.” Expectations of decent and reasonable behavior are what keep things in check and maintain respect. Because decent people don’t use up their favors without giving back.

  14. I’ve always found Solzhenitsyn an fascinating figure. He was a political prisoner and worked in a Soviet concentration camp. Despite this injustice, he eventually came to view the experience as a moral exercise, in which he was forced to examine all of his wrongdoings…

    I don’t believe in karma in that I think phenomenally bad things will happen to decent people regardless of what they do. They really didn’t “have it coming.” Esp when considering the abuses many children suffer. Still, that (dis)belief doesn’t preclude the value of *being* a decent person. I don’t think about karma really. I think about whether someone can still be decent in indecent times; whether someone is willing to work against their own best interest or risk themselves to be decent.

  15. isthmus – wow really brilliant post.

    I think about whether someone can still be decent in indecent times; whether someone is willing to work against their own best interest or risk themselves to be decent.

    Great thread. Reminds me of a picture I just saw of the three lawyers who successfully defended OJ Simpson against murder. Bob Shapiro (son died of drug overdose) Johnny Cochran (died – brain tumor) Bob Kardashian (die young – another kinda cancer).

    Not Karma but they certainly fell under your category of ‘unbridled self interest”

  16. Oh, I believe in karma 100%.

    Here’s my experience: When I was in 3rd grade, I met this girl that was so ugly that I just hated her! I was superficial, cruel, I pinched and slapped her! oh, I was just horrible!

    Forward to my highschool years and I was the one being picked on. But it was verbal and mental abuse. The abuse lasted for 3.5 years.

    One day I asked God, “What did I do to deserve this?” Then it clicked in my mind about the girl in 3rd grade I was just so horrible to. And from then on I knew that there was a price for every action and word you chose to speak.

  17. “There just gets to be a point where you can’t hide all the bodies.”

    That makes me laugh. I think I was about 23 when I figured that one out. Thank goodness.

    Elsa, does the soldier think his current life is payback for something he did in the past? As in, karmic redress?

  18. One thing I notice as I am reading a lot of the responses about karma is that a lot of people experience it as “how I relate to others.” In a “if you aren’t nice, you’ll get yours!” kind of way.

    But for me personally, I have experienced it the other way. My family is very karmically-bound, and I am linked to my parents by all three of us having Saturn in Scorpio, Chiron placements, etc. For me, the karma was to emancipate myself from being nice, from providing for them emotionally, etc. Saying “fuck you I’m out of here forever” was the thing that freed me from this strong karma.

    I don’t see it as meaning “price” but just “lesson.” Lesson for me in this instance = be true to myself and stop trying to heal through relating to others.

  19. “Elsa, does the soldier think his current life is payback for something he did in the past? As in, karmic redress??”

    Yes. For something he did in a past life that he is nowhere near done paying for – In other words he is going to be paying for this thing for many, many more lifetimes to come and I am going to be alongside now, or so it seems.

  20. It boggles my mind trying to imagine that. I certainly believe what he says; it’s simply intensely intense.

  21. Replying to MzScarlett’s thought, people who are decent during indecent times – hand up here. The problem is, people can’t believe it when you say “Ok, I’m walking, you win” because I won’t let the toxicity in. Few people do this. Done it with career and family, after trying of course but eventually, you have to own what matters to you.

    But I also think everyone is here for their own reason. And even jerks/thieves etc. somehow are helping others work out their karma. It’s a weird circle thing. All I know is, I need to keep the jerks away and be vigilant about it because otherwise I always get burned. And I’m not as strong as I used to be. I won’t even be friends with a jerk. Can’t afford the fallout which always comes. Let stronger people be there for them. I’m worn out and I am no saint or martyr.

    Elsa has told me I have support in my chart which helps me take this stand. So this life is meant to be this way in my case. If it wasn’t, I’d be on a hard road still with nothing working. It’s not that things are grand and wonderful, it’s just that all the crap forced me to finally find the right thing I was supposed to be doing. That’s an incredible feeling. Makes doing the rest of my time pleasant, instead of just bearable (yes, often I view life as prison, or used to)

    I felt old from childhood too. Have a distinct memory, one of my first, of thinking “I’m not happy that I have to do this shit again!” There’s a photo or two of me as a toddler where I look both old/wise and pissed off to be here. So I’m doing my time and God help any asshole getting in my way. I’ve had enough crap. lol

  22. I think karma can be very subtly, or it can run like a freight train. Just read a post about Elsa and her sister, and reflected on the difficulties I have had with my sister (serious ones), and the bad blood there. Don’t know enough about astrology to figure it out, but for starters, my sister’s sun at 2 Cancer is opposed mine @ 1 Cap.

    In that particular relationship, it has been a complex and interesting process. At this point I can relate to Carrie, in that I am more prone to set stronger boundaries, do my own thing, and be free.

    I strongly feel bound to do the right thing by people in general, buy I feel as if I have less tolerance for people than I used to. I’m doing right by myself more than I used to. I think I definitely have had to clean up messes I made, as well as re-balance things that were in place before, in which I was once on the short end, and now have to get “even,” not in the sense of revenge, just in the sense of not allowing myself to be one-down at the hands of someone else. This is how I came to view the relationship with my sister.

  23. I don’t believe in karma too. I think whatever happens in our lives is programmed by us, our mind releases positive or negative energy. I remember, Elsa’s phrase – the energy is neutral until it’s directed. For example, when I caught my ex-husband with my girlfriend in our bedroom ( I’ve decided to come home early) I didn’t show anyone that I was hurt, I got a divorce but I played a cold and heartless chick and everybody belived me, including my ex and that girl. They’re still together and they have a son. I hurt myself by keeping this negative energy in me, it was burning me for a long period of time. 10 years later, I exprerienced the same situation like de ja vue – my ex-bf started sleeping with my friend behind my back. Guess how I reacted now? It was a huge public scandal, I was furious. Everybody knew I was beyond repair. They broke up shortly, the guy is miserable and lives in poverty. The girl cannot hold relationship with any guy more than 2 month. That was a big lesson for me – don’t hold negative energy in yourself, release it, give it back to the source – in this case my ex-bf and gf knew that I was hurt, I downloaded their subconscious, they felt guilty and started to attract negative things. Energy doesn’t disappear, the law of conservation of energy really works, and it’s our choice how to direct this energy.

  24. Hi Elsa and everyone,

    I’ve been lurking about for quite some time, but found this topic interesting enough to finally break my silence. I wholeheartedly agree that what goes around comes around, if not in this lifetime, then almost certainly in the next lifetime. My mother and grandmother both warned me about this often. I feel that I burned a lot of “old karma” in my 20s, from this lifetime and previous lifetimes. I can also see interweaving karmic connections, some with people who have come and since gone from my life, with their own debts to repay or lessons to teach and share with me. In a few cases, I have been the “debtor” or the teacher. In others, there is a “recurring thread” in which we seem to be destined to meet time and time again. I feel as if some of the most significant crossings during my teens and twenties may see an “encore” much later in life.

    Also, I don’t know that everything bad that happens to us is karmic. I’m still recovering from a vehicle accident injury sustained during the previous eclipse. It happened in just the right place that its symptoms are chronic and don’t seem likely to go away without the aid of technology that doesn’t even exist yet. I now feel that it may be some sort of premonition/representation of the Oil gusher in the Gulf.

  25. There is lots of good advice throughout this thread, particulary wrydling, and of course Elsa’s as always. In my opinion, to even think of having the luxury of future lives (and thus EXTRA time) could hinder work on oneself in this life. I doubt that I have personally crystalized something within myself so solid and indestructable to survive even death. If I did, I would strive for further development of my core being so that what would be left after death could survive in even higher levels of the universe. Excessive preoccupation with recursion can be counter productive.

  26. I believe in karma. If you don’t do it right the first time, it will come back to bother you over and over again until you learn how to do it right… which is to NOT crap on people. What goes around definitely comes around, and around, and around.

  27. Yogananda wrote: ” Seeds of past karma cannot germinate if they are roasted in the divine fires of wisdom…The deeper the self-realization of a man, the more he influences the whole universe by his subtle spiritual vibrations, and the less he himself is affected by the phenomenal flux (karma).”
    I found this quote in a book written by Stephen ARROYO…the title of the book is : ASTROLOGY, KARMA AND TRANSFORMATION…
    I can not stress enough how much that book helped me in my quest for answers…it is a very good read for anyone trying to understand the karma ( past or present) in their charts….

  28. What I like about Christianity is the idea of grace. Forgiveness heals yourself and your no longer at fault. Healing yourself is not easy so that’s where the Church would come in and support. I’d rather meet and greet Mary and Jesus on the other side then come back here again. Not that my life is so bad, I just don’t think Heaven compares to earth. I’ve had a peak. People who have near death experiences experience utter bliss and peace and love and happiness that they’ve never experienced on earth and sometimes they ask to stay but they can’t because their purpose has not been achieved or because they have to take care of a loved one. Its a beautiful thought not to be in a cycle of karma for what seems like forever. IMO, I don’t think anyone can know for sure whether karma exists unless they’ve crossed over. The only closest thing to knowing is hypnotherapy and verifying the facts of past lives. Maybe I’m in denial because I’m Catholic. I’d rather hear it from Jesus’ mouth then take an astrologer or psychic’s word for it. But the muse is interesting. But yeah forgiveness, complete forgiveness is healthy. Of course the hurt and pain you experience must run its course but a healthy person should let go. I would recommend A Course in Miracles on the subject of forgiveness and how that opens you to blessings. I love that book btw.

  29. Sow a thought reap an action, sow an action reap a habit, sow a habit reap a pattern, sow a pattern reap a life time, sow a lifetime reap……. karma

  30. Raven – that’s awesome. I might just tape that to my mirror to keep it in the front of my head.

    I serve – not like Elsa serves, but I serve in whatever way I can where the opportunity exists. Of course, my income is based in service – food service, commercial service – but I feel it is important to serve those I encounter who are struggling with things I’ve already survived so they know they can rise above it as well. Hold their hand, if they need it, tell them the truth about the process as they go through it.

    I’ve made enough mistakes this time out that I don’t think I’ll escape another lifetime on this rock, but I hope the next time I don’t get so mired in the physical that I forget the things I’ve learned and done right.

  31. Well, I have knowledge of past lives. I believe very detailed knowledge. I have documents etc. and event connecting the dots.

    I believe that summary ‘steal and be stolen from in another life’ etc. to be incredibly simplistic. The space between our lives sees things on such a fantastically multidimensional level that this distinction is simply not even noticed.

    I’ll give an example. In my last life I was in an adult relationship with a woman and we were not compatible and it went badly wrong. In this life that woman is my sister so since there is no pretence that a romantic relationship is even possible, similar themes can be played out, i.e. the caring aspects.

  32. I think you are spot on, Elsa.

    You know you are screwed when decent people don’t want anything to do with you anymore. That’s when you know you’ve fucked up royally.

    I’ve turned bad people out and also experienced to be ghosted by friends. When I was 30 I took Karma serious. Saturn had his return on my Saturn-Pluto conjunction on the anaretic degree of Libra in the 8th house (yup, 1982’s here….)

    I lost whom I thought was my friends and was pretty much all alone during a crazy ass motherf… Breakup. I felt like you wrote. Life as I know it was gone. I figured out that I had some shit to figure out about Karma. And that the death of the relationship wasn’t exactly bad for me. Just harsh as h…

    I can’t say I have figured it all out yet, but I’m learning every day.
    I am still hurting inside because of that relationsships’ death. But I swore to be more generous from then on.

    Little could I see that I did it because I felt guilty. Guilty to enjoy life. So instead I threw myself into self sacrificing. That didn’t work either. So now I don’t want to do things from guilt anymore. It’s not healthy. But it has a new road and thy name is “Guilt free”

    1. What means ’29 degrees in Libra is divorce’? (My natal Venus is 28°45’♎, my natal asteroid Psyche is 29°59’♎.)

  33. Avatar
    10,000 Daydreams

    Wow, so interesting. This happened to me a few years ago. I’m still working on it. When you have to start saying to yourself “I’m a good person.” Then maybe its time to admit that you aren’t. Sigh. Still working on it.

    But on the other hand Elsa, didn’t you have a post where you found yourself repulsive to people? What would you say in that circumstance? I mean, maybe, SOMETIMES, it might be *them*, you know? And not you?

    Anyway. Working on trying to be good enough “so decent people will have something to do with me.” Lol.

    1. “But on the other hand Elsa, didn’t you have a post where you found yourself repulsive to people? What would you say in that circumstance? I mean, maybe, SOMETIMES, it might be *them*, you know? And not you?”

      I would say they may not be decent people… 🙂

  34. anonymoushermit

    Sometimes ‘decent people’ who snub you are just gossipy know-it-alls. Are they really that decent then?

    Overall, I agree with this post. If you have no good people (not perfect, but good) then you need to take a second look at yourself, warts and all.

    1. This is my reading today on ‘facade’ – stichomancy of my work colleagues. This is not necessarily true, I like and get on with a good deal of them. But still something does not feel right a good deal of the time and even if it does not apply to them and just reflected my thoughts, these are still interesting ideas:

      from Across The Plains by Robert Louis Stevenson:

      their lyre sounds of itself with relishing denunciations; but for all displays of the truly diabolic – envy, malice, the mean lie, the mean silence, the calumnious truth, the back-biter, the petty tyrant, the peevish poisoner of family life – their standard is quite different. These are wrong, they will admit, yet somehow not so wrong; there is no zeal in their assault on them, no secret element of gusto warms up the sermon; it is for things not wrong in themselves that they reserve the choicest of their indignation. A man may naturally disclaim all moral kinship with the Reverend Mr. Zola or the hobgoblin old lady of the dolls; for these are gross and naked instances. And yet in each of us some similar element

  35. I agree with the idea that decent people do not want anything to do with those who leave a trail of bodies. They might give one the benefit of the doubt and be receptive/welcoming yet if they get burnt, they move on.

    I have experienced things that I have done to others happen to me in time (in less than 10 years, that is how quickly I find karma coming back.)

    Luckily I have tried to be a decent person (sun trine saturn) and I have this fear that karma will come back to hunt me (sun trine saturn) so I am pleased I haven’t been a really horrible horrible person.

    I’ve met a few very horrible horrible people and deep down they were unhappy or uneasy with themselves or live so I could see karma was in their lives already. Sometimes I haven’t seen the karma there in their lives yet have assumed one day it would be there.

  36. I’m only not happy with a few aspects about karma. Why is it so slow that many people don’t believe in karma? Why is it often so slow that you need to believe in reincarnation in order to believe in karma and at the same time so non-obvious that many people don’t believe in reincarnation? Is it part of the law of karma that it is so difficult to figure out that it exists? How can some people, who say they’re believing in karma, nevertheless be so sure to say ‘he has begun’ and then use this as an excuse to destroy a life? Can you do something to somebody, which wasn’t already predestined for this somebody’s life?

  37. This is a great read. My mom said the same thing, I agree and know it, for sure. Try not to make a mess *always*. But I did, because I was too young to contain myself and that with a person I don’t want to meet again. I hope that universe forgets sometimes.

  38. I personally think this whole concept of karma is very complex and not just tit for tat. Unless you remember every detail of every life – Perhaps better to focus on this one.

    If we think of it all as vibration, raising our own vibration can only be a good thing- no matter the outcome. Goodness is it’s own reward!

  39. I believe (i.e. I *know*): I have had past lives; I currently have other, concurrent lives; and I may have future ones.

    I do not believe in reincarnational karma (You done bad, you have to come back until you get ‘it’ right) anymore than I believe in Christian Hell (You done so bad you are gonna burn forever) or Purgatory (You must pay at least a little, for awhile, for where you done bad).

    I do believe in doing my best each day. And I do it. Without need of Fear of Eternal Damnation or Karmic Redo to make me do it. I do my best because that’s what I value.

  40. Great discussion- much food for thought. Here’s some more …

    “There is nothing right or wrong but thinking by makes it so”

    “The kingdom of heaven is within you”

    Your right is my wrong.

    My belief – knowing –
    When we align with our truest self (soul) we are in heaven. When we don’t we are in hell. Part of hell can be numbness – perhaps that’s why people can do harm and bit seem to care. When we cause harm ( “do no harm”) we bring down our vibration and lose our connection to our true self. Whether or not we are ‘punished’ directly – or even self aware enough to realize it – it still leaves a scar on our soul. A sense of separation.

    Raising our vibration – by being in integrity with our true self – can heal those scars.

    If time is an illusion and a construct of this 3-d reality – then all lifetimes are occuring simultaneously – our brain is wired to focus (mostly) on this one.

    If you haven’t touched on – felt heaven in this life – why do you expect to find it when you die?

    If …

  41. Oh well that’s it then, that huge, steep rock that has been standing in my way all these years and I’ve been trying to get around (successfully for quite some time) has finally made its intention clear. It’s formidable – it will take all I have to ‘deal’ with it, I don’t know whether with time it will turn into gold (smiley face) but at the moment, it’s big, steep, ugly, crevice-ridden and seriously in my way. I used to be able to gallop around it, luagh at it, fly over it on good days, but now, with the lead chains I have picked up along my escape trips mean that now I can’t do that. I seem to have acquired, however, a small, pick-axe (what joy!) so all I can now do is hack my way up, climb tiny bit by bit until I have scaled it. I have long lost the jet boots that would have made this easier but now as Saturn is in the house of my sun and merc and baring his stony teeth at me, there’s no where left to run or hide, it’s up and up the hard way because I didn’t get it before, I just didn’t grasp all the facts. Humility will now help, as Father Time, Old Man Saturn has brought me the facts. This is what you’re saying to us Elsa, it’s payback time, pay-up time, time to do the work. Now, where did I leave those knee pads?

  42. Punishment doesn’t reestablish justice. Human-made justice makes things only worse. So karma must be more complicated. It also mustn’t put focus on the perpetrators because thus can never be established any justice. As a god-made force karma mustn’t have the same fault as human-made justice: What about the victims?

  43. WTF. The article is entitled Relationship Karma and all you monkeys are talking about plain karma. Time you learned to pay attention, else your karma will make you HAVE to pay attention at some future point. Ok, only kidding. Anyone who does not believe in karma simply has not been in touch with what they do. Some events come from out of the blue but usually a little introspection will enlighten you. I’ve always said, “You want to learn about karma? Go out sometime and deliberately hurt someone or something (heaven forbid that you do). Do it quietly so that nobody finds out or even knows about it. What you will experience within a short time-frame is a sudden event that will inflict on you an equal or greater measure of pain.” How do I know this? Well, as a Scorpio I used to have the sting. Quietly sting someone very painfully and disappear. Yes, I am talking about a person in an ex relationship so this is relevant. It only took a few karmic revenge stings to find out the connection karma has. It will seek you out like a seal calf seeks its mother on a crowded island. You control nothing. It will find you however cautious you are. Sometimes just a few days later. I vowed never to use the sting again back in 1990 and fight the urge to do so when it arises. Take my word for it. Karma is as real as anything else in this life. We should be grateful for it. Why? Because we can do good in the world and know that somehow, sometime in our future, we will reap good, not that that should be the primary reason, but is a comfort to know. Those of you who do good and feel that life is crushing you endlessly and unfairly, perhaps you are already being blessed and just don’t know it. Let me take you by the hand, and lead you through the streets, and I’ll show you something that’ll make you understand.

    1. ‘The article is entitled Relationship Karma and all you monkeys are talking about plain karma.’

      What is the difference?

      ‘Those of you who do good and feel that life is crushing you endlessly and unfairly, perhaps you are already being blessed and just don’t know it.’

      Has rather something to do with past and future lives?

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