When Lying Is The Norm

Mercury bronze god“That’s why I tell you not to tell people that about me,  P,” my husband, explained. “People don’t believe you. They think, that poor woman has been bamboozled by some lying bastards…

The claim is that he has served in all three branches of the Armed Forces; Air Force, Marines and the Army. That means he’s been through boot camp three times. He’s also a retired Army Ranger and retired Special Forces. On top of that, he’s graduated British SAS…and more.

Now all that is true but it sounds fabricated, doesn’t it?   In this era where fantastically gorgeous (fake) retired military men try to friend me on facebook on a daily basis. Stolen valor. My own sister’s husband does this. It’s pathetic.

So my husband found a job here recently. He told me some years ago, he would like to leave his entire service off his resume, but of course he can’t. It would leave two decades of his life unaccounted for.  He was hired by a retired marine, who was pretty surprised over the three branches of service thing.  Er…that’s cool, now prove it.

My husband can prove but this is the day I really came to realize, my husband is a (real) unicorn but it really isn’t smart to say so. I sure he’s right…people probably do think I am some kind of sucker. So this is where we are at this point in time.

It reminds me of when my husband’s son wrote me, about eight years ago. He was at war at the time, I wrote him all kinds of stuff at that time. I did it because I as an Adopt-a-Platoon lady, before my husband ever came back into my life. I wrote soldiers! But also because I had a lot to say and my husband wanted me to write his son too, I think.

So I wrote and I wrote and I wrote and he received  and received and received. And then one day he wrote me and said he believed 20% of what I said. His dad’s 80/20, see? (search it)

Well, hell. I’d told him not one lie. I would not dream of telling him a lie. Lying is shameful. It’s disgusting and despicable (to me).  So I was defeated by that.

I wrote back to acknowledge what he said and to tell him I how shocked I was that he’s not believe me. “I thought people knew the truth when they heard it,” I said. I did think that. I thought exactly that. So this was my first introduction to the idea that a person might mistake the truth for a lie. I was disoriented for weeks.

But now we’re headed into 2016 and lying is the norm. I still tell the truth; I’m pretty sure I always will. I just can’t see myself, slipping into the abyss on this level.  But I think I will quit mentioning my husband’s service.  So few know what it means anyway.

Under the Scorpio moon.

46 thoughts on “When Lying Is The Norm”

  1. I appreciate servicemen and women very much.
    Also, I can’t stand lying, and won’t indulge it myself. Yes, I always thought people knew the truth when they heard it. People just know! But hey…keep telling the truth, and be true to yourself.

  2. In my world, consisting of those I confide in at work, in my circle of family and friends, and here, it’s not the norm…

    Then again, most I confide in have one or a few unicorn markers themselves, so…

  3. I think it’s expected to lie on a resume. It’s supposed to look good.

    Sometimes I tell tall tales to people because they are more apt to believe that than the truth. I have had a fair amount of adventures and I guess it doesn’t seem to be believable. A ship that passed in the night, a long night that lasted a couple of years, said it’s the way I tell it. So I suppose it seems more exciting than it actually is/was maybe. That would be Jupiter talking.

  4. It seems that someone who’s had this happen to them, would be more considerate than to accuse an entire group of the zodiac sign, Gemini, of being liars~being so offended yourself..and being an astrologer who should know that character depends upon many more things, than where the sun was, when a person is born. I also was innocuously posting something to the site, being discussed, which you took exception to, when your website was giving you problems, and you flamed me to the point of total embarrassment. Not long afterward, you mentioned that people shouldn’t be so “thin-skinned” as if the same things should bother each one of us, as if you felt you should decide what should or shouldn’t offend everyone. I remember whan I first recognized the fact that everyone didn’t feel the same feelings, nor even want or care about the same things, as I did, such as in marriage partnerships, especially; so that it wasn’t necessarily an insult, to be hamburger to one person…and steak, to another; but, only a matter of different tastes. As a Gemini who abhors lying and liars, however, I’m still seething about being dumped into the liars cauldron, as someone who should burn in hell, because of my sun sign and that there’s people who take what you say to be “the truth”..when that was definitely not the case. So, when calling the kettle black..one might check to see what color their own pot is. As far as not giving credit where credit is due, because os what others think. I’d rather be authentic. I’ve been accused of being “truthful to a fault”, maybe due to the Saturn in Gemini, which has taught me to be whoever and whatever I profess to be, unapologeticly. In a time of disingenuous blow hards, I’d think it would be gratifying to have a husband you can be proud of; who’s served his country above and beyond the call of duty. We can certainly use a lot more good examples of good men, these days~when the majority of young men, don’t have many good examples to model themselves after, as the media portrays them. As far as “truth” goes, however, I wonder if Donald Trump feels he’s being “authentic” when he’s expressing his opinion of others as “truth”..and, when does one’s opinion become bedrock and set in stone, to be imposed upon others(?) I’d say that Moses got the monopoly on that one.

    1. I have pretty much posted daily for 15 years….that’s 5475 posts on the blog alone. Never mind the forum. Never mind the comments. Never mind the thousands of people who have been helped by my effort and/or learned from me. Sounds like I may have had an off day?
      Sorry, SAMcClellen. I’m human…er, with hormones and Lupus, no less.
      You may be honest but you certainly aren’t kind or charitable of anything of that ilk. So maybe you fail at times too. Maybe.

    2. You may not have the common lying trait if a typical Gemini but you certainly have no issue weilding the sharp tongue. Talk about scathing comments, do you feel better lashing out at Elsa this way. You sure found a way to take something posted and make it all about yourself as in this particular post she mentions nothing of Gemini’s being liars. Your comments were inappropriately harsh and self serving and frankly irrelvant and make you seem petty and self asborbed which are tyipcal dark side Gemini traits, guess you proved yourself true to sign whether you embrace the liar aspect of not.

  5. Your husband seems like an interesting character, to say the least. He seems like the type of person everyone would like: Witty, intelligent, charasmatic, story to tell, etc. I never thought he was lying about that, though, and I never thought you were a fool for believing.

    1. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Never thought for a nano second any of the body of work that is Elsa’s amazing blog had anything but the truth in it. That’s why I’m so drawn to it! It bristles with truth. It has the taste and smell of truth.

  6. I’ve always felt like I was not believable. Don’t know for sure if it is only self perception or if people really doubt my truthfulness. Strangers offer compliments about my old, beater Camaro. When I reply that I have some GTOs and Corvettes, their eyes glaze over as if they’re suddenly tuning it out. “Yeah, sure” is the look I get. There’s a Chinese gang story too, which I tell no one because nobody acts like they believe it. It’s kind of lonely to know something and not be accepted.

  7. I remember the Gemini talk and it was tongue in cheek. I do NOT remember all of Gemini being blatantly being called liars….’if you have the sun in Gemini you’re a liar’ No…. I remember a thread where we were all joking about what people think of different suns…. Gemini = chatty (so people think they are liars) (it was a freaking joke) … Taurus = Stubborn…. and so on. (Lucky your are blessed to be a Gemini, try being a Scorpio, I might as well go kill myself according to anyone who has had a bad relationship with one) HA

    I also think when you have lived a number of years you not only have a story…you have a long one! And some of us have lived through hell and kept walking, then lived long enough to tell about it.

    I have talked here plenty….but haven’t shared some of the things that have happened to me because I am not sure anyone could possibly believe it. Sometimes I cant believe it happened myself….but it sure as hell did because I do have a memory and I am not yet completely crazy that anyone has diagnosed.

    If you met me in person, or strolled through my idiot FB account you would think I am fucking Mary Poppins! Someone who has never had a problem in her life. You would think I have it made…. HA HA HA HA HA … that couldn’t be futher from the truth. But my FB account is full of people I have to see at the grocery store and clients too… and my personal life isn’t any of their business. So….. I was actually raised by wolves with addictions. It was a nightmare.

    I have never doubted anything Elsa has written here. I read the book, and I can identify with at least 75% of it myself. I am not sure if you have actually talked to her live voice but if you have you wouldn’t doubt a word of what is written here.

    The soldier has lived long enough to do all of those things and then some. I have had more than one career. I have lived long enough I have had several. Sick of one, tried another. I am getting ready to learn something new again when I can settle on the thing I want to learn. If you ever sat on the porch with one of my grandparents you would get an ear full of stories….all true, all about the changes they went through over the 80 plus years they lived.

    That Gemini thread was a long time ago. Honestly Sam, your still seething? No one ever said Gemini should burn in hell….I raised a Gemini Stellium. I would have noticed that immediately and frankly that is just not Elsa or this groups style. I’ve even gone back in some of the history to find such a thread that says you should all burn in hell, but I cant find this anywhere.

    I will tell I know Gemini as well as anyone can know one (as I said I raised one) and he is quite the character. He never stops talking and can he tell a story. Gemini doesn’t like boring, but they love words! And come on….y’all are twins… break it down. When my Gem is good he is very good (the best) and when he isn’t he is a freaking nightmare! At any rate, he demands center stage. I always joke he is giving a seminar. He is wildly entertaining and the most fun person I know….but who-eee can he tell a story. I would not lie on him as he is my child.

    Further, I must ask, if you are seething from something said in the past, why in on earth are you here?

    Stuff like this burns my ass. We are reading written words. There is no tone of voice, there is no inflection so what one person may read as ‘getting their head bitten off’ another may not. I feel the same way about texting.

    And seriously, don’t come for me. I am not feeling well nor do I fell like getting into a pissing match with anyone. If you don’t like what was said to you then respectively go on to a place where you are happier and don’t attack a person who has helped me enormously over the last 2 1/2 years. I don’t like it. It makes me angry, and I don’t feel like being angry right now. Finally, its her blog. She can say anything she damn well pleases when she feels like it. You don’t have to read it.

  8. That reminds me of a funny story I heard.

    A friend of mine, who is a naturalized citizen was desperately looking for a job in Los Angeles some years ago. My friend has an MBA from a state university and some good work experience in his resume.

    A man called him and set an appointment for an interview. The man explicitly told him prior that he was a retired Marine Corps. officer, very high ranking apparently. A VIP of sorts, I guess.

    Anyway, my friend reports to this high rise office building for the after normal working hours appointment. My friend walks up to the high rise and rings the bell to be let in, since all the doors were locked. And, nothing. No response whatsoever. So, eventually my friend gives up and gets in his car and drives home.

    He gets home, and his phone rings. It’s the guy who had set the appointment up at the high rise. He says something to the effect of, “Congratulations you passed the test! Now you can come back here for the interview!” Of course, my friend declined.

    Made him wonder what sort of secrets and half truths and outright lies that guy had going on. Anyway, for some reason your commentary reminded me of this.

  9. Forgot to mention in that previous story, that the interviewer told my friend in his phone call that he was sitting in the high rise office building staring down at my friend who was ringing the bell for the appointment.

    That is kind of a crucial detail…. oops!

    1. Wow, Sherry, that sounds like the recruiter was expressing Plutonian energy in a very negative way with that kind of tests…I would have said no as well. That employer sounds like a nightmare.

  10. I love the stories about your husband because my perception of him is not disbelief it is respect and marvel. First and foremost I am grateful for his service to our Country. I see him as the kind of person that when he commits himself is all in, no short cuts no such thing as good enough. The kind of person whom sets personal standards for himself at a much higher level than most are willing to even entertain. So I think when people have a hard time believing his accomplishments it’s more that they don’t want to acknowledge such a level is attainable because they feel inferior by comparison. I love hearing about him. I find him fascinating, inpressive and inspiring.

  11. This reminds me of your post about gullibility the other day. I feel like people who tell the truth tend to believe others and those who lie expect to hear lies. Maybe not 100% but. I am pretty honest like I said before and I give people the benefit of the doubt. But of all the people who have accused me of lying, I can’t think of 1 that I would fully trust.

    1. I agree with you Laura about people’s approach to the truth being linked with their expectations of others!

      Elsa, I’ve never for once doubted the truth of your stories. Never crossed my mind, and I don’t even know you (personally I mean, although we’ve had readings :-). )

      I am normally honest, most of the time. Though I got a strong jupiter connecting positively with MC, Mercury, Venus and Mars, and in square with Saturn. I find myself exaggerating at times little details (noting major yet still inflating things a bit) which I am aware of while I’m talking! Not a daily habit, no, yet I notice when it happens.

      Overall I say the truth so I expect others to be truthful too. What I have learned in the last year is that when something is not being said or something said to me is fishy, I feel dazzled in my mind while I am hearing it. It has proven a got detector.

      Scorpio rising with both chart rulers in good health, moon and Mars in the eight house, and moon trine Pluto.

      Got moon in Gemini too so I wonder if my exaggerating thing a notch at times I’d linked to it.

      Interesting post, Elsa. Thanks 🙂

  12. There is a story around here somewhere (or it may have been told in a private forum). My husband worked in a machine shop for some times, harassed constantly by the boss, who did not believe his background.

    My husband did and said nothing for months and months and months…and then one day the guy was standing next to him, blowing his mouth off, yet again.

    At that point my husband had seen and heard enough. He grabbed the guy and in all of two seconds, put his head in a drill press, brought the drill down to within an inch of his head. “Got anything you want to say, now?”

    Sorry, but I think this is a funny story. Some people should really STFU about things they know nothing about.

  13. Another thing, in regards to SAM above…if you happen to be in my Saturn in Sadge workshop, this is an example of a story that needs an update. It’s holding her back. Hate of me, who she doesn’t even know, is holding her back for no reason, whatsoever.

  14. Elsa, you never came across as a sucker to me…I can see where you are headstrong and forging ahead on your own self created path, but that doesn’t say “sucker” or “naiveté”; I just see you as someone who keeps going, no matter what is in your way. I get the impression that you take people for face value and/or you have a finely tuned BS detector that always steers you in the right direction.

    The way you felt when your husband’s son expressed disbelief in what you told him is exactly how I feel when I tell someone the truth and I can tell they don’t believe me. Is it because we tell it in a proper story-telling fashion? Is our delivery off? I prefer being honest with people to begin with, and to have them doubt me really does hurt my feelings. I was raised amongst a lot of liars, and I know I am different.

    A part of me understands why your husband is reluctant to share his military life with others. I don’t think I would. It’s like comparing caviar to oranges, but I don’t like to share my work either (and your husband’s work is the caviar by the way). Obviously, his work is way different than mine, but I can see the need to keep that to himself.

    I’m sorry Elsa. I’m a Gemini and I never got the impression that you thought I was a low down dirty liar…at least I hope you never felt that way about me!

  15. Elsa, how do you know if you and your husband are on the right future track with your stories (Sag). You both don’t get any support from others, just a lot of hate/obstacles on your paths (Saturn)? Others seem to consistently remind you of this. Can you ever expect to receive support (Saturn) you are both on the right path? How is one to know?

    1. Whaaaaaaat?
      We are awash in support. My husband and I have been showered with one blessings after another. It’s mind boggling what good things have come our way. People remark on this to me, virtually every day.

      Honestly, I have no idea where your perception comes from.

      1. Example….my husband found a great job in one day, even though he’s been out of machining for eight years and he’s an old man.

        We have this great house, at a great price, great deals on everything we need to furnish, neighbors to die for, new friends that are investing in us, a business, still here, chugging away.

        We have health insurance, doctors we like – I have a horrible malady (Lupus) brought under control with no side effects…

        I have a gal who does my hair fantastically for….hold your breath…for $40! (Cut and color and yes, I tip heavily)

        I have a zero turn mower, fruit trees, grapes and I am winding up my garden, planted FOR ME by the guy who sold us the house.

        I could go on…and on…and on….

        So yes. I feel confident to say, God has led us here and He is most definitely looking out for us. 🙂

  16. Ok, if I got this right. You get your support from God(Faith). You don’t look for support or guideance from others. You rely on your faith?

    1. I look for and find support through people. For example, when I drove my lawnmower over a cliff and it was hanging…I texted my neighbor for help *at 6:30 am”.

      He texted back, “I’ll come over. Lemme get my pants on.”

      Now that’s a good neighbor. And frankly, we did not just get this house. The seller had to go home and pray to God, first, to see if he was to sell it to us. So really, it’s a mixture of God and His agents?

      And for the record, it’s come back around, our neighbor thinks we are exceptional neighbor’s too. Boy does it add to quality of life!

      But yes, we get support from all over. Some couple is having us over tonight…they’re cooking and will have to clean their house, yes? It’s not the first time. My husband has stayed in this house maybe 8-10 nights since we got here. We have had company or been someone’s company most of those nights.

      As for guidance…it comes from all over. My manners have improved by osmosis, just living here. That’s guidance!

      Did you read about the Boston Butt? I was buying one (cooked) from the Knights of Columbus. You pick them up, right off the smoker. The Knights stay up all night and cook them.

      I stopped at a garage sale on the way to get mine. Mentioned it to the lady having the sale…it made her mouth water. She wanted one too.

      Long story short, I picked up two butts and delivered the lady hers, right to her garage sale. For this, she gave the Knights and extra 10 bucks.

      My whole life is like this. I most definitely feel supported. I am one of those people who see God, constantly.

      I was not like this when I was young. I was told and taught that God wanted nothing to do with me. Now *that* was a LIE, lol. That was the biggest lie, I’ve ever been told. 🙂

  17. “I thought people knew the truth when they heard it.”

    Lordy, me too. I still believe that. I might mistake a lie for the truth but the truth for a lie? Healthy skepticism notwithstanding, I still feel like the truth has its own ring.

    1. I may not be, for individuals. But the press and the government, forget about it. And these things set an example that influences people.

      I really don’t think there is a lot of focus on honesty being a virtue…or being virtuous in general.

  18. Some people are jerks and do lie but most of that is caused by cowardice and therefore online. Face to face people don’t tend to lie as much because they want that want that rapport with another person that they can only get when being as honest as possible. It’s in our genes to not want to lie. People still do but but when they do it’s because they are scared. Online people do it way more because they don’t feel they have to be accountable as much.

  19. Great post. I’m a Gemini and I have a horror of lying. Maybe it is my Sadge ascendant. This post sounds like a Gemini 7th house deal to me -> 7th house Saturn = get real with others.

    I’m looking forward to Saturn stationing on my 5th degree asc, haha, not at all. Don’t know what I have done wrong but I am sure I’ll find out!

  20. I was struck by your comment Elsa, that you were told and taught that God wanted nothing to do with you.

    What a horrible, unimaginably evil concept to teach a child. I think of how this must hurt God so much to see the evil mankind inflicts upon one another.

    If you think about it, to strip someone of their last hope. That is sadistic torture in my opinion. That is insanely cruel. The type of cruel that imprisons people on earth everyday. I am so sorry for you to have been falsely presented that most hopeless of opinions.

    My mother would tell me not to collect things, that she did not want me to believe anything I found was valuable. In her mind, she did not want me to have false hope. It was, in fact stupid and destructive to not encourage me to make a collection. I did not read your book, I wonder if that was an unintended shield of some kind your parent did not want you to believe in what they perceived was a fairy tale untrue entity. In other words, crush the dream in order to protect a child from false assumtions.

    Both ideals are wrong, children and adults need to believe and find comfort in a sense that someday wrongs will be righted and that our souls are here for a reason. And after all, we were proven right and God has made his presence known in our life. To our great relief and gratitude.

  21. Great post, Elsa! And kudos to all (well, almost all) commenters for their thoughtful, honest responses. I admire your willingness to put so much of yourself out here, Elsa; you share your personal stories to illustrate what you teach us about planetary patterns in life. But there’s huge risk in doing so because you open yourself up to attack by those who are fearful of others — and themselves. Blaming others for one’s own wounded psyche is the ultimate in dishonesty, imv. So I have Mars in Sadge on my MC and Merc in Scorpio (8th) square a Leo Moon/Pluto conjunction. In my younger years I would occasionally exaggerate – stretch the truth – when talking about something I did or said. I did a fair amount of internal work to figure out why I felt the need to do that. Peeling back that onion revealed an insecurity that had its root in early childhood which told me I wasn’t good enough. I can’t help but think that may be the basis for a whole lot of the lying in our society. What do you think?

    1. ” I can’t help but think that may be the basis for a whole lot of the lying in our society. What do you think?”

      Boy, I don’t know. The question is too big for me to grasp at the moment. I’d not thought of it that way.

      I think we don’t teach virtue much these days. Right and wrong is blurry for many, or each person decides for themselves. Everything is justifiable.

      I mean, there are people out there who think it’s RIGHT to shoot police or cut off a person’s head at their job.

  22. I also had another thought…photos are lies. Photoshopped images are a lie. I never photoshop my photo. I don’t want to be an image. I want to be a human.

    Music is also a lie. It’s machined. Food is a lie. It’s not cheese, it’s cheese + other things.

    The weight of the chicken breasts you buy at the grocery store is a lie. They have those weighty pads included with the chicken these days. This is new and part of what I’m saying…lying is the new norm. Tricks and manipulation.

    I really feel sorry for people who flunked Saturn in Virgo.

    1. You’ve got a point (several, actually). Every since the advent of frozen (fake) TV dinners, we’ve been searching for truth everywhere from lending to reporting. And, what is truth exactly? Your truth may not be mine and so on. Paraphrasing another truism, to oneself be true. That’s what I must live with. Oh, and I have Saturn in Virgo — square Mars exact. Now, having lived three-quarters of this life, I’d like to think I’ve passed. 😉

      1. In case I was unclear, that remark about Saturn in Virgo was not directed at you, personally. It was a general comment. This blog was live when Saturn transited Virgo. I wrote learning to think, extensively. 🙂

  23. Oh, Elsa, don’t stop writing about your husband and his service. I love these posts. Some of them are hilarious. (Try http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/the-soldier-and-mercury-retrograde/).
    As for you being a sucker and taken in by liars – this is ridiculous. Anyone who reads your blog knows this is impossible.
    About your husband’s son not believing you – perhaps it’s because he didn’t understand your way of telling a story – the deliverance, as Goldie says. How old was he at the time? What would he say now?

    1. He knows me to be an honest person at this point. We had about a six month break after he said that to me, but it was years ago. We’ve communicated, constantly since. It was just the first time I’d ever had an experience like that.

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