Are Some Children More Likely To Abused?

zodiac dark blueVenus is currently opposing Pluto. This post is from 2016… it’s from a transcript of a class that I taught on chart-reading in 2003.  This was one of the charts I used. I called it, “Abused”.

I wrote…

“She says she was singled out for abuse in her family. The scapegoat. She wants to know why.

I may take some heat for this ala “blame the victim”. If I do, it’ll be because I’m misunderstood. In whatever case, I can take it.

Fact is, we come into the world and we already have energy. We already exude something. If you have ever been present when someone is born…well the air changes when the person comes into the room. This is not some innocuous blob being born. It is a complete human being, albeit in raw form.

Now here’s a little fact. Some kids are more likely to be abused than others. This is primarily because their energy in provocative in some way…”

I went on to delineate the chart.  But what do you think of this idea?

I used to date a Scorpio, with Venus, Mercury and Saturn in Scorpio as well. His stellium was in his 8th house. I have a stellium in my 8th house as well.

There was a little girl who lived next door. She was also a Scorpio. Her energy struck us both. We both thought she was at risk and someone had better be watching her very closely.

Know anything about this?

81 thoughts on “Are Some Children More Likely To Abused?”

  1. Hmmm. Unfortunately I do know a thing or two about it. 🙁 The 4th house is curiously empty, and the 4th/10th axis is pretty narrow. I would be looking for Chiron, Saturn, or an outer planet in the 4th to describe difficult or intense conditions in the person’s early home life. I do think 8th house is part of it; my own Pluto is 4th house conjunct IC with Saturn/8th… Daddy issues. However, the Uranus/Pluto are in the 7th, house of not only marriage, but open enemies… Virgo being the 8th house in this chart… toxically nitpicky and critical. Sun/Mars 8th, a lot of energy around taboo subjects. To me, though, this chart looks more like an abused spouse than an abused child. YMMV, of course.

  2. The Buddhist belief, to which I subscribe, is that when our Souls have finished processing and recapitulating our last life, and is ready to be re-born into the world, it’s energy finds the Souls of parents that will give it the experiences that it needs in early life, whether to support, or overcome. Mine was overcoming, but it has strengthened my compassion for others, as well as strengthened my opposition to any form of abuse.

  3. anonymoushermit

    I understand this writing too much. I was bullied, and bullied one person, as a youth, up until 16, then bits and pieces, here and there, until I was 25. I once met a boy and something about him bothered me, I verbally bullied him for two years in elementary school, perhaps I was projecting? But it’s like he had dirty energy, or something. I can’t quite put my finger on it.

    But I, myself, had ‘dirty’ energy myself. People seemed to say, “Look, it’s him! It’s that a$$hole, let’s pick on him!” And this is without any proof, or even evidence that I did anything. They did this not knowing they were projecting themselves! However, I picked on that poor boy in elementary school, so I’m not an innocent, no matter how angelic I want to paint myself.

    1. What do you mean dirty energy? I always thought the kids who get picked on have some exploitable weakness. When I was a kid.. the kids who were in the Special Ed class kind of grossed me out and made me angry 🙁 but I did leave them alone…

      I wonder what made me easy to pick on and if any of it was justified. I was an only child and I think I have social problems attributed to some differences in my upbringing (spoiled! also I used to kind of just say random stuff at home all the time) and I didn’t dress too fashionably. I was also into saying random big words. But I have these social problems that keep bubbling up these days. Oversharing, talking too much about myself, awkward and self protective in groups.. stuff I can’t even see that makes some people think I’m autistic. Difficulty reading others’ emotions.

  4. Your comment about projection is insightful, anonymoushermit. It leads me to Neptune, which is high up in the 9th house. 9th house isn’t homey or neighborhood-y; it’s broad and far-reaching. Also, the Saturn/11th and Chiron/Aquarius, both about the group or the collective. In contrast, the person’s South Node Aries/2nd is highly individualistic and aggressive about their values. Think of the collective as a “body,” and it’s easy to see how the body could be reacting to this individual as if they are a virus. The individual may not even be aware that they are causing this reaction, though the message of a Libra North Node is about reining in that individualistic/aggressive energy. They have to be made aware of it in order to change it. That’s not blaming the victim; there is no “abused child” here in this chart. I can see that the scapegoating is a wound to the person’s sense of Self via the Chiron/1st, but Chiron also says “find something constructive and other-focused to do instead of obsessing about your Wound.” I think there is a LOT more to the chart owner’s story that we don’t know, some things about him- or herself that they aren’t very willing to acknowledge.

    1. Yes, thinking of the collective like a body to much resonance on the self even wounded self repels it. When I’m wounded finding something not related to this self is the ticket out of the bullying. It may take a bit but diverting the attention the bully loses steam

  5. As a Scorpio Sun conjunct Saturn, all opposing Moon , Capricorn Ascendant with Mars square Scorpionic Pluto, also Moon conjunct Chiron, and full 12th house, I can relate. I was a scapegoat, sacrificed in order for the family to continue its functioning. I was ill as a kid, with trauma-induced psychologically based condition, which, unfortunately, was manifested very physically. I was taken to all sorts of doctors and eventually shrinks, just to shift focus out of my parents’ bad marriage. When I was in my 20ies, after a few years of psychotherapy, I refused to be the “rotten egg”, the sick one, and to be blamed for family misfortune. Not long after that, my parents divorced.

    I have to be honest: I also was short-tempered, with a violent streak. I wasn’t a bully in a classic way, as I did not pick on the people who were weaker than me, but was very defensive: the ones who tried to pick on me got a very exaggerated response, usually physical. So I can say I had my fair share of fights when I was a kid.
    So, scapegoating can have many forms, and many consequences…

    My brother, who has much “lighter” air-based chart, had the easier way, but I cannot say that he was spared of the “deal”. He was really bullied in elementary school, and it happened to him that once or twice during high school that some people gang-up on him, but then he got bigger and stronger, so eventually they left him alone. But he has a Gemini Sun conjunct Mercury in 8th house. Our younger step-brother also has Sun-Mercury-Mars conjunction in Sag in the 8th house; he started elementary school this fall, and on the first day kid in his class, whom he didn’t even knew, started beating him; kid brother was surprised, and told me that he was very scared. Then he also reacted violently, and the other day told me those kids are now afraid of him. I wasn’t happy about that, but I do not see how to help him to evade this destiny. We’re trying to educate him the non-violent ways of relating, but how to explain that to little kid, being jumped upon the very first day of school, for no reason, by someone who he doesn’t even know?

    Scorpio/8th house energy… It’s kill or be killed…

  6. Yes, absolutely! Completely agree. And if you’re an abuser, these kids are unfortunately easy to spot, whether they a provoking an anger inside of the abuser, or an inclination to play out some awful idea, simply by existing in themselves. I was (still am) a family scapegoat but as I got older I fought it hard and have established very strong boundaries. The only thing that saved me was no longer being that child.

  7. This chart looks very much like mine except that my 8th house stellium is in Scorpio — Sun, mercury, neptune, north node and ascendant is in Pisces with mars in pisces in the 12th house. I was an abused child, and abused sister and scapegoated for a lot in and outside the family system. Lifelong therapy including EMDR helped but I am now 59 and when I look back, I see so many needless years of deep suffering. The fact that I had an undiagnosed rare genetic disorder which made me physically ill and weak but could not be detected until recently did not help either. I truly believe some people are born to be targets and have to learn to be discriminating with their social contacts and affections once they have survived the natal family….. I don’t know the answer to this from a spiritual perspective, really, except that I have developed a way to be both in and out of this world and can spot others who have suffered as I have and be there for them to the best of my abilities.

  8. My comment has nothing to do with astrology, just some insight. I took a psychology class where we learned to trace family lineage on a generations graph. On the graph, we listed people in our family who were known to be alcoholics or have some sort of a mental problem that affected their life and people close to them. What we learned was that in some families, a child usually a male will be born in later generations and the family will use that child to stamp them as a scapegoat and “push” that child into a role of continuing the same situation that happened in past generations.

    Psychologists do not understand why this occurs as it is so unfair and horrible. But it is real, and it does occur and their are alot of people who suffer badly for it. In my case, I noticed my sister and I had become scapegoats, and my sister actually labeled me as he own scapegoat since I was younger and had a different father. I believe my sister took on my mothers drug addiction by purposely drugging herself with my mothers prescription drugs and my father abandoned me after associating me with my mother instead of himself, thereby abandoning us both when he fell out of love with my mother. Luckily, in my sister and I case we grew up and assigned our own child we had each the role of enlightenment. We each raised our own child to believe in themselves and that our children were better than us. It really helped, we broke the cycle and parented our kids the exact opposite of how we were treated by our parents. In my sisters case, it meant she had been an IV heroin addict and her grown daughter is a Registered nurse who has never touched drugs. In my case, I never finished school and my son grew up to become an honor student in a great university.

  9. I believe we live multiple lives. Our date and time of birth are like “cosmic” math, calculated to match exactly our “moment” in the evolution of the soul. For this reason, I don’t believe in victimization. If you’re a horrible person in one live, then you die, born again and now you’re an “innocent” child. Well, your past is right behind you and it catches up with you. I believe all abused people (in all kinds of abuse) were once the abusers. Isn’t that the ultimate law of the universe? Cause and effect work everywhere and if we live multiple lives, it would be just natural that whatever you did against other people will come back to you, even when you’re only a child.

    1. BINGO! Past life Karma. A friend sent me this link right here and told me to read the comments because I was just on my Facebook page saying this exact same thing. Add me if you would it would be an honor to meet someone with like understanding. My name on there is James Eric. From South Carolina peace

  10. Avatar

    If the abused are paying off karmic debt because they were abusers in former incarnations, I wonder if learning to stand up for themselves is how they overcome the karma or if that’s secondary to simply having to experience the pain they once inflicted. I’m a Sagittarius sun, Scorpio moon opposing Saturn in Gemini in the 4th and spent most of my childhood aggressively scapegoated and bullied although to be fair nowhere near as badly as some.

  11. i thought of that too, of why some children out of all the children are “marked”? It made me think of the Josef Fritzl case, too, where he had other daughters but Elizabeth he chose. Then i saw all the oppositions, trines together. they have energy they shared obviously being that she came from her father/mother, they both have 8th house but it’s hard to understand without a proper birthtime. Also Wikipedia states her bdate as on the 8th of april.

  12. also i thought, if there is deviousness inside the man’s heart and has Always been there (or woman too if she is an abuser) it will come out when he/she is faced with the energies he/she is very very fatally attracted to. it’s very scary if you think deeply about it.

  13. From a collective point of view, maybe the abused are healers, the inescapable, the truth bringers who bring the repulsive into the light. I think we are all part of what’s deeply “wrong” about where we are. I’m sure we all contribute in some way whether consciously or not. Energy is collective.

  14. I’ve thought about the karma aspect a lot. A LOT. When does it end, though? If in a past life I was an abuser and I am abused now, the current abuser is both a vessel for balancing universal energy but also a vessel for imbalancing universal energy, which is then continued in their next life. I believe in reincarnation, but I’m not sure about this one since it seems to go against a natural order.
    I keep reading lately, by chance, that the abuser must do a tremendous amount of spiritual work to overcome this inherent coping mechanism, so then again, maybe this inner work is truly the realm of natural order, and we have it within ourselves to overcome a huge universal energy imbalance, on an individual basis. (Ah utopia, I’m always looking for you. Sorry about the stream of consciousness.)

    1. @belle, also 8th house i keep reading is the house of breaking curses. 🙁 someone has to break it. but the one who breaks it suffers alot so they too have to do alot of spiritual work to keep healing until they leave this world.

    2. I think karma ends when one of the parties forgives the other and stops perpetuating the “revenge”. I’ve seen case studies about “enemies” being born as children or being parents to their abusers/abused of the past and that puts an end to the cycle when love becomes more powerful than hate. I don’t think karma exists because of any external (“godly”) force that puts people against each other so they “pay for what they’ve done”. I think it all has to do with forgiveness. As long as the victim doesn’t forgive the abuser, she will be looking for revenge in one way or another (abusing the abuser if she is given more power, messing with the lives of the abusers as a vengeful spirit if they’re not both reincarnated) and then they switch roles depending on the circumstances as the abuser becomes the victim and thinks she has the right to seek for revenge and so on. If one of them forgives and forgets, it’s all over.

      1. @Carol, yup i think that’s when the abuse stops, with the individual who stops it(the cursebreaker) because there are horribly abused children, and they still grow up to be the worse abusers. As if they inherited it and continued the cycle, this happened to my ex.He had a horrible abusive relationship with his mother but he continued the cycle with the women in his life. i got pulled in and sad for him of course but didnt see clearly how cruel he was, and that he was already in his own darkness and couldnt fight it. he had pluto 4th.

        1. strangely his mother had other sons and she didnt pick on them, only him. because she was reminded of the man who left her/abandoned her and hated the boy because of the father. like the boy’s energy/blood is what made her hate while she loved her other boys from other different men. (this is another example i think of why some children are marked)

      2. Avatar

        Carol, what if your actions/feelings are mixed? For example, I chose to never have children and guarantee that if nothing else I would do no harm and break the abuse cycle passively. Moon in Scorpio in 10th house conjunct Neptune, Saturn in Gemini 4th house opposition.

        On an intellectual level I’ve forgiven my parents for hurting me, but I still feel enormous visceral rage towards them. And I would be lying if I said I didn’t feel a surge of near-sexual pleasure when I hear that anyone who ever bullied/hurt me has experienced misfortune/sorrow.

        Does that truth mean I can never break the curse?

        1. ComfortableDarkness, I don’t think we can call it a “curse”, but a “vicious circle”. I don’t think you really forgave your parents… or the other people that have hurt you in the past. We can understand a lot of things intellectually, but don’t feel it. The ultimate test would be how you would deal with all these people in a future life when all your intellectual knowledge of the present situation is gone, especially if you happen to be in a position of power in relation to them. That’s actually what happens now. They don’t remember the circumstances involving you in past lives. Maybe they’ve hurt you in the past, maybe you’ve hurt them, maybe you have made peace with some of them “intellectually” before and now it’s all forgotten. Real forgiveness, I believe, is a state of deep understanding and love, way beyond reason and logic. I think one of the biggest problems we all have to really forgive those who hurt us is the obsession we have (as a society) with justice. It seems to us that it’s unfair that others get away after doing what they’ve done to us, because in our society everyone (technically) must pay if they do anything wrong. What we fail to understand is that these negative connections are thousands of years old (maybe more?). Those who have hurt us have paid over and over already for the “bad” things they’ve done, as well as we did suffer for things we’ve done to others. Memory regression and out of body experiences can help elucidate reality as we can remember situations that happened in past lives and sometimes realize that what is happening now has happened before, many times, or that we did the same thing to those people before. We realize justice is an artificial “system” to deal with this world.

          1. Avatar

            Carol,that is such a strong point you make about how wanting justice in the present can interfere with the ability to forgive. I never thought of justice as an artificial system but against the backdrop of one lifetime, it’s a the very least not fully inclusive.

            It can sometimes feel like letting go of the rage and forgiving somehow minimizes or legitimizes the abuse which is of course ridiculous, but it helps to remember that forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation. You can take power by removing the person from your life without being eaten alive by hate. Ideally :).

    3. Thank you both! Really amazing insights. I’m living the 8th house as a curse-breaker, but I’d never heard that before. This is a long story that I won’t go into, but it is definitely true for me in my family along my mother’s line (and I have Scorpio on the 8th, too). Carol, your words about forgiveness as the ultimate spiritual work and healing – touches me deeply. It’s so true for every one of us, probably. One of the true keys to peace.

  15. I also have a heavy 8th house in Scorpio (including moon), plus Pluto opposite Sun and square my MC. I’m a target (others have told me this) and I’ve been recognizing lately that I also pull this energy in my defensiveness. I learned to be defensive at an early age.

  16. I’m curious about the chart you posted, too, Elsa. She has Saturn in Capricorn and Venus in Virgo, which might project an “I’m unlovable vibe”, plus the moon in Cancer and no fire. I love moon in Cancer, but these aspects might also contribute to depression? It’s a chicken and egg question, but I believe what you say about being born with an energy. And Scorpio attracts scapegoating – definitely believe that! I always feel better when I’m feeding my fire planets, though, so to speak. I have a lot of similarities to this chart. Taking action, especially physically and spiritually, lifts me out of it all – mind, body and spirit. I’m not sure I’ll ever be free of being a target, so I have to work on being strong (and kind).

  17. Holy moly, talk about walking around a corner and unexpectedly facing your reflection in the plate glass! ~smiles~ Yep, I do know something about this, as this is (literally) my chart. Wow. 2003, eh? I still remember those early days. You were my first astrology teacher, Elsa, and you have remained my main one to this day. As a matter of fact, your Saturn in Sagittarius workshop last fall is my current ‘Guide for Growth’ for the next couple of years.

    As for the topic of this post, I believe my siblings and I, after all these years, still exhibit each our own same unique fundamental energy, as do our parents. That hasn’t changed. But I think we have each grown in how we ‘manage’ it, ‘live’ it – sometimes, often, shining; but sometimes still failing catastrophically.

    For myself, I’m just coming out of a massive and prolonged Pluto transit, which left me, at its very end, mentally and physically ill/disabled, and financially destitute. Long story short, I ended up, in my mid-fifties living back home with my parents, in the bedroom of my childhood no less. This was last year more or less, for a year. You can imagine what an opportunity for ‘growth and healing’ that was for everybody! ~snort~ One hell of a challenge it was, that’s for sure, but we all lived to tell about it!

    I am now rebuilding my life. I have a place of my own and tomorrow I will be looking at a house I want to buy. I have chosen to stay here (in this geographical area) to be there for my elderly parents until they die. This is part of my Saturn in Sadge ‘program’. Time to give back. And I have chosen my parents as the beneficiaries of this ‘giving back’. There is a huge sacrifice involved in me staying here, but it is one I am willing to make. It took me some deep work, but I am finally (this very, very recently) able to do this not because I ~should~, but because I ~choose~. (Probably still some emotional wavering ahead regarding this, I am Cancer moon after all!)

    Thanks Elsa, for all your insights over the years, and thanks to everyone who took the time to provide their own insights in the comments above. Lots of food for thought for me in there. And many nails hit on the head.

    1. Tango, I’m curious about your Mom, what with your 6th house moon in Cancer. The only aspect that moon appears to make is to Jupiter, right next door to your 29 Scorpio (anaretic degree) midheaven; the 29th of any sign being karmic and crisis-oriented, but on the midheaven, it’s out there for everyone to see. Did she try to shield you from what was being thrown your way, or was she participating? If so, was it sporadic, or maybe too-little/too-late? Was there an emotional entanglement with her that harmed more than helped?

      I want to acknowledge the truth of your Chironic Wound; while, in your chart, it really looks to me as if it’s far more about the attitudes of society, the culture, the collective, toward a strongly individualistic person as you clearly were/are. I’m curious to know if you experiencing scapegoating outside the family, as well?

  18. Avatar

    Can a person who grew up with abuse take a deep dripping-with-schaedenfreude pleasure when their abusers get hit with their own karma and still break his/her own curse? Because if you can’t, ah’s in some trouble :).

    1. They can, but eventually the malicious pleasure itself can eat at the abused and in a strange way the abuser still has an impact.

  19. Well, I once had an astrologer in another forum accurately predict from my natal that I had endured intense abuse including violence in my early years by seeing that all of my malefics (Pluto, Mars, Saturn) were in the 4th house.

  20. I used to think something was wrong with me because i was fascinated by serial killers. It either was because I was a serial killer, myself, or I was afraid of them. I’ve come to realize any fascination runs along these lines. When you fear something you want to learn everything there is to know about it so you will be prepared for that time when you may have to confront your fear. Abuse is all about fear. The child grows up with a suit of armor, ready to confront the horror projected on them as a child and, thus, becomes the apathetic abusive horror they spent so much time preparing themselves to face. All that “just something about them” crap is good old fashion fear. You either fear them, literally, or fear others will think you are as weak as they are. You are the only one with something to prove when you bully someone else. For abusive parents I think it’s almost payback for whatever they had endured as a child. Like they feel it’s unfair that others should have a childhood they didn’t have so they kick the shit out of these poor little ones. My brother used to do this to me. He admitted many years later, when he was about 35 years old, that he thought our mother loved me more than him. Considering she abandoned us at an early age, I got the shit end of the stick being left with him as a brother.

    I do believe karma clusters in families because it’s what we have most to learn.

  21. yes, I agree some people have ‘provacative’ energy. I have sun and merc in 8th house and a stellium in 5th squaring the 8th house sun. My natal pluto is stationary retrograde opposite my chiron (trine this 8 house merc and sextile neptune in scorpio) Pluto is transiting my 8th house and I’ve found myself to be under ‘attack’ (not physical). I have always lived as the outsider, we were the only catholics in our village when I was younger and now although now I live in a catholic environment, I’m the only foreigner – always my situation has caused me to be a scapegoat of sorts, although I work hard to not let it be like this, I try to use the ‘scapegoat situation to transform (rise above) and this works best. Pluto / scorpio energy is about transformation, although it’s a painful process and the intensity can be deeply harming as well as potentially deeply healing.

  22. If someone thinks a child is at risk, they can call child protective services. Everyone’s energy is provocative to someone in some way somewhere sometimes. There are many types of abusers and each has their type of victim, some pick on children, who fall into their type, by being children, innocent, helpless, defenseless.
    Abuse is about power and power is about Pluto. Mars can be a small devil but Pluto can be a big demon when provoked in some psyche that ain’t workin’ right. So in that respect maybe we are all fair game and everyone can be a victim of someone somewhere sometime. Nothing specific, there are too many types of abuse, abusers and victim types so I would say no certain type of child is more prone to abuse than another, the environment and the people around them play a large part. If an abuser abuses a child, the provocation is in the mind of the abuser…not the victim. No excuse, no justification. An abuser is provoked by a type, they don’t see their victims as people.

    1. You’re right; if the kid is abused, the abuser is at fault. Unfortunately, the whole psychological dynamic is very complex, and somehow the abuser and the abused charts are intertwined. However, it does not justify the abuse, just trying to explain it.

  23. I have Pluto in 4th and I did not have an easy childhood, but then again I’m an 8th house sun with Saturn squaring my sun so all kinds of hurdles at times. I don’t see my childhood as abusive, but more like following orders. I see my adulthood as much as the same with Saturn square, following authority figures now instead of parents. It’s a lot of dealing with constraints but I’m so used to taking the time and effort by now at age 30. I hope life gets easier as I overcome a lot of my so-called Pluto and Saturn ‘restrictions’ someday.

    1. It does get better, Anonymous. I have the same Pluto/4th + Saturn/8th, with South Node conjunct Saturn in Aquarius. At 53, now I can say that. 🙂 But as you would expect with Saturn, I’ve had to “do the work” to reap the rewards.

  24. I have found from my own personal research that people with an aspect pertaining to their Moon, Neptune Pluto and/or Mars are either prone to abuse or are the abusers. I do not know how true that is but that has been my experience. The individuals I speak about had the following aspects; The person being abused had a Neptune Mars opposition which from observing her she gave off a very sexual, loose boundaries provocative aura which may also have been attributed by her Scorpio moon. The person as her abuser had a Mars Neptune opposition with a Moon Pluto opposition and Pluto trining his Mars. I found in another chart where a man I knew had abused his daughter and he had a T square with a Moon Neptune opposition squaring Mars and his Pluto trining his moon. I don’t know what it is about the Moon, Mars, Neptune and Pluto aspects but they seem to produce an illusion, aggressiveness, deviance and emotionally never satisfying appetite to sex whether you are being abused or being the abuser. I find these planets are always in the mix of abuse when it comes to the negative aspects. I believe a choice is made whether consciously or unconsciously when you have these aspects to be in some form of abuse because the Neptune aspect seems to make you believe it’s ok to be abused or do the abusing due to its deceptive nature.

    1. At least one here made a point, with which I can relate. I was severely bullied and experienced violence already as a child. I’ve got Moon square Pluto in my natal chart. There’s also Moon trine Mars and a lax quinkunx between Moon and Neptune.
      Some other factors, beginning with my Pisces rising, probably contributed too.

  25. A friend if mine recently had a baby girl. My friend told me the time of birth so I quickly checked the chart.

    Mars conjunct pluto (a bit less than 10 degrees orb so wide) in the first house close to the ascendant. Mars and pluto squared Venus too. Mars squared uranus. Sun in the 8th. Saturn ruler of chart in th 12th house within 2 degrees iof the ascendant. Jupiter in Scorpio conjunct the MC. Strong Venus in Libra.

    A couple of grand trines too.

    My friend will ask for some pointers so I’ll share the strengths and force of nature of this girl yet also encourage her to foster her self esteem, help her relax, allow her to be angry and intense, and just be mindful that she’ll be around powerful people and that she is entitled to be assertive and combative in their presence if needed, and to try and not get herself into powerful triangles.

    I didn’t think ‘abuse’ right away yet I noticed the mars pluto wide conjunction in the 1st house; the exact pluto Venus square; the Saturn conjunction to Capricorn ascendant; and the sun in the 8th.

    Her parents are chilled out do this girl will be a force to be reckoned with, I think.

    I also think it’s best if they let her express this energy, and guide and protect her because the parents do have a powerful circle around them.

    Any ideas?

    1. CrisLondon – the strong Venus/Pluto/Mars square with Saturn influences suggests to me a forbidden love affair with an older/authoritative man.

  26. Truth, Elsa…I saw both our sons being born, and their very distinct personalities were visible from the moment of birth, and have not changed since…Our “philosopher king” son was a calm baby whose eyes were actually looking around the room as he was being held by the nurse….

    1. I watched the same unfold when my nephew and niece were born. Their energies were (and to this day are) like night and day.

      Interestingly, my niece was clearly a chip off her aunt’s block (me) from first breath. I saw it, and so did everybody else. (It frightened everybody, haha!) Today, 20 years later, she and I (although 40 years apart in age), get along like a house on fire (which is a rare thing for me, with anyone).

      I also get along fabulously with my nephew, who is an angelic soul, but it’s an entirely different kind of rapport.

      I think Elsa nails it when she talks about the vibe or energy we each exude when we walk into a room. I’ve now passed my 2nd Saturn Return and I am still working on “managing” mine.

  27. I am an adult child of an abusive home and have T square of Venus, Mars and Pluto involving the 8th house (mars in 8th) in cancer, square Venus in 4th , opposite Pluto in 10th. Saturn is also squaring Pluto on my 7/8 house cusp. But Pluto is also part of a grand trine with my sun and moon (Taurus and cap). (6th and 2cnd houses respectively) I have worked out the abuse thru multiple relationships in my adult life. Still learning.

  28. I’m a target for abuse. Wanna know why?
    1. I’m weird and that makes people “uncomfortable.”
    2. I am not even a tiny bit scary or intimidating.
    3. I’m really nice and generally quiet and not doing anything to anybody.

    I don’t know the astrology of being an abuse target, though. I think it’s just my personality. Nobody’s going to stop abusing me because I want them to, because I can’t make them or scare them or anything.

  29. I’m not quite sure what is prompting me to share this but here goes: when I was younger, during a family gathering/party, my cousin’s husband led me into a room. There was porn already playing on the television inside and I just remember being pretty terrified. An angel must have been watching over me because my uncle opened the door and quietly rescued me about 5 minutes after.

    I am deeply thankful that I wasn’t touched inappropriately. I never told anyone and neither did my uncle. Interestingly enough, a similar situation happened but I was older at this point. I was led away by a family member’s husband and we were alone but the same uncle found me and promptly ended that encounter.

    If I can process any further encounters with men (and women), I’m not sure what it is about me that causes these types of nearly sexual encounters. I’m outrageously ordinary but I wonder is it something that I am doing to provoke these reactions?

    I became interested in astrology about a year ago but I genuinely don’t know what I am doing or how to interpret anything. I seriously doubt that there is anything in my chart that would shed any light but who knows, right? Well, now I’m just going on like a babbling brook. Thanks for the chat.

    1. Thank u for sharing your story. ((Hugs))That’s incredible that the same uncle would find u and come to the rescue ! We as woman shouldn’t ever think it is something we did to provoke such behavior. It happens to a lot of woman in all different types of scenarios. When u take a look at your chart Id love to see what you find!

      1. Thank you for the hugs, Jess! It was pretty incredible that he rescued me twice. It’s as if he knew. Looking at my chart now and using my limited knowledge, it all looks pretty normal I would say. Here is my information taken from the TimePassages Pro application. Forgive me if it isn’t the preferred source.


        Ascendant in Taurus
        Sun in Cancer (3rd House)
        Moon in Taurus (12th House)
        Mercury in Cancer (3rd House)
        Venus in Leo (5th House)
        Mars in Cancer (3rd House)
        Jupiter in Sagittarius (7th House)
        Saturn in Libra (6th House)
        Uranus in Sagittarius (7th House)
        Neptune in Sagittarius (8th House)
        Pluto in Libra (6th House)
        Chiron in Gemini (1st House)
        North Node in Gemini (2nd House)
        Midheaven in Capricorn

        Strong Aspects:
        Moon Sextile Mars (0.8 degrees)
        Mercury Sextile Ascendant (0.2 degrees)
        Venus Sextile Saturn (1.3 degrees)
        Venus Trine Neptune (1.0 degrees)
        Venus Sextile Pluto (0.3 degrees)
        Jupiter Opposition Chiron (1.1 degrees)
        Saturn Sextile Neptune (0.3 degrees)
        Saturn Conjunction Pluto (1.0 degrees)
        Saturn Square Midheaven (0.5 degrees)
        Neptile Sextile Pluto (generational) (0.7 degrees)
        Pluto Square Midheaven (1.5 degrees)

        Medium Strength Aspects:
        Sun Quintile Moon (2.5 degrees)
        Sun Conjunction Mercury (5.3 degrees)
        Sun Semi-Square Venus (1.3 degrees)
        Sun Bi-Quintile Uranus (1.0 degrees)
        Sun Semi-Square Chiron (3.2 degrees)
        Sun Sextile Ascendant (5.2 degrees)
        Moon Sextile Mercury (4.1 degrees)
        Moon Inconjunct Jupiter (1.3 degrees)
        Moon Opposition Saturn (5.5 degrees)
        Moon Inconjunct Uranus (2.5 degrees)
        Moon Trine Neptune (5.8 degrees)
        Moon Semi-Sextile Chiron (2.4 degrees)
        Moon Conjunction Ascendant (4.3 degrees)
        Moon Square Midheaven (5.0 degrees)
        Mercury Conjunction Mars (3.3 degrees)
        Mercury Bi-quintile Jupiter (0.6 degrees)
        Mercury Inconjunct Uranus (1.6 degrees)
        Venus Septile Mars (1.0 degrees)
        Venus Inconjunct Midheaven (1.8 degrees)
        Mars Inconjunct Jupiter (2.1 degrees)
        Mars Inconjunct Uranus (1.7 degrees)
        Mars Sextile Ascendant (3.5 degrees)
        Jupiter Conjunction Uranus (3.8 degrees)
        Jupiter Sextile Midheaven (3.7 degrees)
        Uranus Inconjunct Ascendant (1.8 degrees)
        Uranus Septile Midheaven (1.1 degrees)
        Neptune Semi-Sextile Midheaven (0.8 degrees)
        Chiron Trine Midheaven (2.6 degrees)

        Weaker Aspects:
        Sun Conjunction Mars (8.7 degrees)
        Moon Trine Venus (6.8 degrees)
        Moon Opposition Pluto (6.5 degrees)
        Venus Square Jupiter (5.5 degrees)
        Venus Square Chiron (4.4 degrees)
        Mars Trine Saturn (6.3 degrees)
        Mars Opposition Neptune (6.6 degrees)
        Mars Trine Pluto (7.3 degrees)
        Uranus Opposition Chiron (4.9 degrees)

        Whew, that is a ton of information! Again, my head spins from all of the septiles, bi-quintiles, inconjuncts, quintiles, and the like but from the descriptions that TimePassages offers everything looks pretty normal. Thank you once again for the chat.

        1. Hi Sayber,

          Thanks for sharing.

          In my opinion…

          * Neptune in the 8th house can result in boundary-problems around sexual matters and energy, others’ energy and resources can infiltrate/intrude without noticing (Neptune, loose boundaries)

          * mars trine pluto

          A mars-pluto aspect hass enormous energy (amongst other things sexual energy and great determination/personal power to make things happen), and it can also link to sexual abuse…I have met people with sextiles/trines between these planets who were victims.

          * Any sun mars aspect can link to men being aggressive/attacking of to the person.

          The person with the aspect has great strength and aggressive and competitive urges. Sexual urges too.

          I have the square and James Braha mentions the matter of potential attacks from me with this aspect. I have been lucky and careful yet had close calls, and father-child disputes are common with the aspect.

          Your uncle knew to take care of you. The fact that family gatherings were the context of such threats says something about unsafety in the family…I think.

          You have powerful aspects – living them will harness their power and equip you with protectors and your own power to self-care.

          1. Thank you for your knowledgeable insights, CrisLondon. I genuinely didn’t believe that there was anything significant in my chart but of course, I have much to learn. After digesting your thoughts about the unsafety in the family – you are definitely on to something. Thank you for the chat.

          2. Greetings all! I’m back! I did some more digging in regards to my chart and found Black Moon Lilith placement and aspects. Is she even counted in regards to influence or is it best to leave her out when it comes to chart interpretation? Just for knowledge sake here is my Black Moon Lilith information (from astroseek) in case it’s helpful:

            Lilith in Aquarius
            Lilith in the 10th house

            Lilith Square Ascendant
            Moon Square Lilith
            Lilith Parallel MC
            Jupiter Parallel Lilith
            Uranus Parallel Lilith

            CrisLondon: Thank you again for taking the time to give me that helpful information. I really took time to process it all and to continue to understand all of the aspects – especially the ones that you have mentioned. You were right! Of course I am still learning all of it but I am getting there.

            Take care to you and to all!

  30. Aspects involving asteroid Nessus and/or Dejanira to Moon, 12th house, and angles etc might be to do with ‘being abused’ as well as ‘being an abuser’.

  31. Weirdly enough, I have felt like that energy around myself most of my life. I have 4 planets in Scorpio, and they are all (or almost) opposite Chiron.

    Not only that, Chiron is conjunct fixed star Algol. With this pair in my 4th house, this is abuse right there. And beheading – like Perseus beheaded Medusa. When I express my strong feelings of abuse and the trauma from that, I am being beheaded by my mother. She openly ignores my messages and does not answer or acknowledge my feelings, instead trying to make me fit in her box of a good daughter.

    Naturally I won’t take that crap, so yeah – that makes people angry. She has Moon + Sun square Pluto, but I have grown stronger during the harsh years so I am not going to conform. I am the embodiment of a person she will not be able to control anymore, and that makes her pissed. I don’t care. Be pissed for all I care, I am stronger than you are, because I have lived without her expression of love for a very long time in childhood.

    So yeah, people do come with a certain energy.
    I like people with take no crap energy.

  32. Hmmm… I have just recently discovered Algol, via comments on various threads on this site.

    I went and had astrodienst add it to my chart, and lo and behold, it falls at the very end of my 3rd house (siblings), within 4 degree orb of my IC.

    1. That (above) was using Placidius.

      With equal houses, Algol falls in my 4th house (family). I am the only child in my family with that placement. My three brothers have Algol in their 5th.

      I am the scapegoat. They are not.

      Interesting observation.

      Trying to understand this Algol, and reading beyond the usual and repetitive interpretations, I found this [paraphrased]:

      I need to go down within me BEYOND the ‘trauma and nasty bits’ to the beauty and the glory that exist there.

      Now THAT’s an assignment I can sink my teeth in! Perfect timing, both in terms of the various transits happening in my life right now, and a specific challenge I am facing in my mundane life.

      1. Wow! Talk about ‘perfect timing’. Just saw that transiting Algol is currently conjunct my natal Algol! Talk about serendipity!

  33. Yes…some children are more likely to be abused because of their energy…unfortunately, yes. Some kids can put out a vibe that provokes. I feel blessed that I was never a parent of a kid like this. It has got to be challenging to constantly be mindful enough not to act on some of those instincts. For a person who isnt very mindful or mature, it can be very easy to slip up and do something or say something harmful in response to such energy…even an aware and mature person would have a difficult time raising a child that has such a challenging energy. I’m definitely not excusing abuse…its never okay, but just saying I can understand how it happens.

    1. I am so bad about not reading the comments before I post. I never would have posted this had I done so. When I wrote it, I didnt realize the person the chart belongs to is reading…i was not in any way referring to the chart posted. I didnt even look at that chart or know whose it was. And I do not blame the victim at all…I probably didnt think it through enough before writing the above post.

  34. Even seeing this title gives me a gross feeling in my body, guess my trigger point is that subject. (There is a vine called “don’t tell mom” that similarly gives me a gross ambivalent feeling really bad and raises too many questions.) I just wonder if by it means physical, emotional, or sexual abuse? And what does it mean someone has the energy to be sexually abused??

    One thing I dimly remember from some time back is a guy, think his name here was something sagittarius, posting a thread on his new baby’s aspects that contained some signatures like Sun/Neptune or Sun/Mars/Saturn indicating that the father would abuse or abandon him. And the people on here namechecked free will or mentioned it could go any type of way.

    Maybe the “energy” someone has is their chart demonstrating that adults may betray or hurt them in their childhood (Scorpio Moon, Venus/Moon/Lilith/Pluto, etc.) Less something they did than the way the chart describes their childhood. I have some trouble imagining a child putting forth a vibe that makes an adult want to abuse them.

    It is easier for me to imagine a child that has an energy or way that puts them at higher risk of being bullied or teased. As I go through my Venus/Pluto transit.. people point out social or emotional issues they notice that prevent me from being able to socialize comfortably. I, a (spoiled, passive) only child, a big reader who knew it was a good move to show off and act “cultured” in front of adults, one who couldn’t easily make friends after preschool.. yeah, I did bring that attention to me. But, I prized “weirdness” and often made moves to separate myself and make myself weirder. As a kid I was made fun of for my “tight” clothes.. kids around me were wearing wide sagging pants.. I said I had it and made them make a list of clothes for me to wear. I wore it all the time, but pretty sure I still got teased. Other countries do not have as rigid of social strata.. nor is teasing as much of a problem, kids are more inclusive, and the “adolescence is hell” concept is wayyy less entrenched. People whine about difficult exams, but rarely talk about being teased or misunderstood. Another terrible thing about this country.

  35. Some people have a mindset which makes any kind of treatment feel threatening or wrong to them, they carry a chip on their shoulder, so even if their caregiver uses all the restraint and grace imaginable, a person like this could very well feel himself a victim anyway and blame the caregiver, which perpetuates negative undercurrents. This type of resentment can be felt and depending on a persons ability to control him or herself, can lead to abuse.

    However, I dont think abuse can be provoked unless there is something already gone terribly wrong inside the abuser..the abuser has to have the tendency already.

  36. Avatar
    Destiny McGregor

    We dissociate during states of immense trauma & a piece of our soul leaves & stays in that time loop. There will be a back drop of attracting abuse when that fragment is in that time loop. We also inherit frequencies from our parents. If our mother was abused, it is likely those frequencies will stay with us and attract the same kind of abuse. I highly recommend soul retrieval.

  37. Venus and Saturn conjunct in Scorpio with Pluto in Scorpio as well. I am estranged from my immediate family. People have trouble processing a daughter being estranged from the mother. I put it this way, the healthiest relationship with my mother is no relationship at all.
    Example (though there are many) : My father passed when I was 12, suicide, both my mother and sister have said to me/have said to other family members “I distanced myself from the family after he died. “ now I am an adult and all I can think is that I WAS 12!!

    1. Hi Luna, what house do you have scorpio? or how is your moon aspecting this?
      I have saturn and pluto in scorpio too…

  38. Cris London’s comments so on point…I have Neptune 8th house, Mars trine Pluto and Mars Square Sun. I have been very lucky and “saved” on 3 separate occasions by a 3rd party coming by at the right time.

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