Saturn is as interesting as any other planet we’ve got out there though rarely credited as such. Reality is humbling by it’s nature. Limits when you hit them always seem to be in a place you should have realized they’d be had you been thinking and had your feet on the ground. The people who die in circumstances that earn them a spot on the Darwin Awards serve as examples.
I have pretty good boundaries. If you tell me to go away, make it known I’m not welcome, I will catch on. If you draw a line and ask me not to cross it, I will honor your line and if not I will expect there be consequences or at least that I will be rejected.
I was not born knowing this. I learned it and in some cases I learned it the hard way but I learned it when I was young. People who reach middle-age and beyond, more who have not learned it, scare me.
Further, I have little compassion for them when they get what is coming… when the consequences that have been promised are delivered because come on. Who should pay the price for the arrogant person in denial but the person themselves? I have a graphic example of this and I use it deliberately to make an impression.
Some years ago the soldier was at the dentist getting his teeth cleaned. The gal put her hand on his chest, holding him down in the chair… this is something that makes him quite intensely uncomfortable.
It triggers him and he knows this so when he she put her hand on his chest and pushed, he asked her take her hand off his chest and she ignored him. She asked her again (politely) to take her hand off his chest, she again ignored him, he asked a third time and she told him that she was not going to take her hand off his chest, “I have to have it here,” and at that point the soldier put her in a choke hold.
Now I am sure he scared the living shit out of this gal but I don’t feel sorry for her at all. Did she not hear what he said? Who is she that she gets to ignore this other human being when he’s talking to her?
To finish the story, this ended the appointment. The soldier paid and found a new dentist who could manage to clean his teeth without pressing his/her hand into his chest but you get the point. Do you listen to people? Do they listen to you?
I am always amazed how someone is amazed their lover leaves them when they have been warned some fifty times, they are going to wind up leaving if the partner continues to do x, y, z that annoys them. I figure they must have no boundaries themselves and assume everyone else is the same or in other cases they may think rules don’t apply to them?
When they find the rules DO apply to them it is invariably humbling and I think this story is as interesting as any other out there, ya know?
WTF? I have never EVER heard of a dentist needing to place their hand on a patient’s chest while they’re cleaning their teeth, yet alone pushing down on it. That is just bizarre. And worse that she wouldn’t stop when he ASKED her not to.
Boundary issues are something I’ve dealth with all of my life. As a child I was surrounded by people who didn’t respect mine so I had no sense even of my own boundaries. I grew up programmed to believe that I had no right to set boundaries or limits. This applied to personal, emotional and physical space. And because I never learned how and where to draw the line I ended up having some very, very bad experiences. It took me all of my 20’s and part of my 30’s to learn – and to have the confidence – to set boundaries. Needless to say I’m extremely sensitive to boundaries, both mine and other people’s. Your story of the soldier’s experience just makes me mad.
I love this story, Elsa, because like you, I got the message early on (Saturn sq Sun plus).
Truth be told, I have seen far more examples of this kind of behavior over the last 20+ yrs than before that. Though there always have been arrogant fools around. Just shrug my shoulders and wait for the crunch . . .
Stupid dentist. Ha ha.
Another truly great blog by Elsa P! I have a strong Saturn placement in my chart and we have a very healthy relationship. He is like a grandfather to me. Saturn and Jupiter seem to get along in my chart too. Saturn and Mars have had some pretty good arguments over the years though, but they have a healthy respect for each other.
Like Rand my Saturn is placed strongly in my chart…it aspects every single planet, even Chiron, except my North Node (which is in my 10th House, ha ha). Also Capricorn Moon.
I generally am perceived as ‘not to be crossed’ (my face is very stony when not smiling), but from time to time someone comes along and tries me on. They are usually people who –naturally–have no boundaries of their own. The upshot of my willingness to defend my boundaries is that I attract strong allies.
I’m glad that didn’t happen to me at the dentist…also made me think of my friend who walked out on an inappropriate doctor once.
“what am I going to do, stay and possibly be assaulted, somewhere down the line?”
she filed a complaint.
kash- I loved the photo of you on your astroturf site!
thanks rand
lol Kash. Strong Saturn touching almost everything too. It sounds stupid, but I used to be afraid of setting boundaries for fear that people wouldn’t like me and I’d get rejected. So I went totally Neptune and became whatever needed. But Pluto transit has set that straight, and now I’m afraid of NOT setting boundaries. Has become a new obsession, setting boundaries first and fast, defending them no matter what. But I do have Saturn/Neptune so I imagine this will mellow out in time too. And perhaps I’ll finally have a handle on this boundary thing in a few years 😉
The signs aren’t always that clear 🙁
Well I definitely listen to people – and I am quite certain they listen to me. My boundaries are crystal clear – that is for sure. And that is one of the strangest dentist stories I have ever heard – I spent a whole lot of time at the dentist this past year, and not once was anyone pressing down on my chest. Really, what the hell was that?
Oh man. I CANNOT STAND people touching me unless invited to. I don’t think I could’ve been as polite as that…there are some things that override the libra rising every time and THAT is one of them!
I wonder if that dentist puts her hands on female chests. I mean, come on. It’s not like the soldier said he couldn’t keep his mouth open. That would be a problem for dentistry. But a hand on a chest? How is that at all necessary?
Speaking of boundaries, I had a teacher who reported that she had a dentist who french kissed her while she was in the chair. Arrogance plus denial for sure!
You know what Ana? I have (had) a similar problem, being too afraid that others wouldn’t like me if I didn’t set boundaries, so instead became what they needed… then get pissed off at myself months later.. LOL! Saturn is a strong planet in my chart, but Neptune is at 3 degrees Capricorn… hahahahah!
Pluto will be going over Netune the next few years, so YEAH! And It’s already starting to show itself. I’ve been experamenting with the my own behavior in the dating scene. “I’m not who you wanna imagine me to be, but actually this, and I like to be treated like this…”
A little too forward and kinda kills the mystry for others… but I’m trying to figure out how to get My neptune/pisces engery to stop throwing illusions out to people, cause I kinda want them to actually “SEE” me… or somehow come to peace with it like Elsa has (LOL! Not that I have it as powerful as Elsa, my goodness!!!)
i’ve had people call me all kinds of interesting thigns for crossing boundaries they never expressed and never fit into the environment i was used to. they just assumed that everybody lived by their set of rules so by transgressing theirs i _had_ to be deliberately malicious or rude or something.
i admit, sometimes i need to have things spelled out on me. i’m not cued in on social subtleties (missed out on those classes as a kid) but when someone does tell me, i listen. and make an effort.
i expect the same from other people. i don’t set terribly many boundaries (at least, i don’t think i do) but i expect them to be taken seriously.
This seems amazingly relevant to me right now – mid November. I’m watching this play out in my life in slo motion it seems.
What an amazing post! Especially this:
“I have little compassion for them when they get what is coming… when the consequences that have been promised are delivered because come on. Who should pay the price for the arrogant person in denial but the person themselves?”
So true. I’ve noticed that this sort of people will also gaslight and crazy-talk you till the end of time to ‘prove’ that there were justified in the way they acted. So sick.
To give an example. When I discovered that my mother had not only been emotionally abusive for a lifetime, but also committed financial frauds against me and my sisters, I strongly urged her to set things right and apologise. I gave her quite a few opportunities to do so, and made it clear that I’ll cut her off if she doesn’t. To this day, many years after all that, she still prefers to arrogantly insist that she did nothing wrong. She has chosen to grow old totally alone, rather than admit what she did and apologise!