A client asked me if I thought a man she was dating was lying to her. While I knew it was possible the man was lying to her, I didn’t think it was probable.
“Let’s just say, this is not the chart of someone who is routinely deceptive…”
Anyone can lie, of course. But I think it’s easier to identify an honest person by their chart then it is to peg a liar.
What aspects or placements do you feel suggest that a person might have a low standard when it comes to being truthful?
Gemini. It’s not that they are liars, per se, they just see reality differently than others.
Sagittarians like to tell stories, and embellish facts.
Pisces dives deep to escape interrogations.
Yep
I will agree that Neptune and Pluto make up a difficult person who’s lost or confussed grounded moral fiber is to deceive people with harm Transit Natal and progressed.
Sagittarius is not a liar as Fire signs are the most honest. Gemini isn’t typically a liar either. Now Pisces on the other hand… yes!!
I’m a Gemini with a Virgo Moon. Cannot stand lies and am pathologically incapable of lying (sometimes it really would help).
BTW my soon to be ex partner has Neptune on the Midheaven. Now he lies naturally. You couldn’t even make him understand that his words are blatant lies when they are.
Neptune on the MC, yes! I’ve also had the experience of dealing with a serial liar who has Neptune in their Scorpio 3H.
Gemini’s are not really liars, they just have the flexibility to change their minds.
I agree and would add Librans. Not that they do it very purposefully, they just don’t want to look bad so they twist the truth a bit.
Oh yes and how these creatures get away with it
Libra as a personality type isn’t known for lying. My Sun is in Libra and it absolutely drives me nuts that people lie about the stupidest of things! In my opinion, *most* people are liars. It’s the nature of the realm we live in! I’m able to see things from more than one side so I can often rationalize why a person would lie about one thing or another. And depending on the severity of the situation, I’ll deem it as something I want to do with or not. But it drives me NUTS that a lot of people would tell you “Oh, I don’t lie. I hate liars”. Because it’s the people who say they don’t lie are often the ones who do lie.
Listen. I’ll even tell you I lie. It’s just that I don’t lie for the SAKE of lying. I lie to either protect myself or someone else. And that’s me personally, so I don’t know where we’re getting this grand idea that Librans don’t want to look bad so we lie.
A lot of friends come to me for my honest opinion or my “insights” as I’ve been told. But I always tell people the same thing: don’t ask me *anything* you don’t want to know the answer to. Most people can’t take it when you’re flat out honest with them but they’ll tell you they can.
So as the original relationship sign, I’m telling you that you have to lie at some point otherwise you’ll make enemies. You walk around like I have and actually tell people what you *really* think, it just pisses people off. Lying for me is exhausting because I don’t like wearing a facade. I hate it. I rather tell people exactly what I’m thinking. But that’s also how you get people to hate you. And just as much as it’s exhausting to lie to people, it’s even more exhausting to have to deal with the enemies you’ve made by simply having told the truth.
People are funny. I’m respected for my opinion and especially if I’m telling the truth about *someone else* (that they don’t care about) then it’s not a problem. We live in this liar-dominated society and all these people lie to themselves let alone other people, and they pretend that lying is just the lowest thing you can do — all while lying about it. People often delude themselves all the time. How many people have told you before to be yourself, and when you are yourself, people either accuse you of pretending to be someone else because they’re so used to people lying to them all the time lol — or they really just want someone that is more relatable to themselves so they don’t have to do all this hardcore work to figure someone out.
Also, if you go around waking people up to certain truths, a lot of people are uncomfortable with that.
It’s like this Sag girl once told me: I was so honest and so real with her that she wasn’t sure how to deal with it because most of her friends aren’t like that.
So, look. I don’t want my hair to look bad, or I don’t want to invite people over to my house when my house hasn’t been tidied otherwise that would make me look bad. But I sure as hell don’t lie to not look bad.
If you want to spot a liar in a person’s chart, you gotta check out how the person communicates and ALSO how they relate to you personally in your synastry chart. Lastly, you want to take a look at how that person relates to other people.
My 3rd house is in Sag for instance. In my opinion Sun on Sag lies a lot. I’ve dated a lot of them and the rest of the world says they’re not liars. But idk if that’s also because most people can’t read people, or Sag is just crafty as a personality type. Sag does not like to tell you the truth once you’ve caught them in a lie. And thats just one of many reasons why I don’t date them >:)
But with Sag on my 3rd house (connected to Uranus), it makes me talk a LOT about world problems. I’m already passionate about how I feel about injustices in this world, and when you add Sag to my 3rd house, it makes me preachy. Sag in 3rd house also supports that I like to give my opinion. I talk a LOT.
What my Cap ex boyfriend (and current best friend) says about me? He knows I don’t lie about stuff cuz I recall the exact same details every time I retell the story.
He lies way more than I do and the funny thing is, he’ll tell you that, lol. That’s why we’ve gotten far together.
Which leads me to what *makes* a liar in Astrology. In his case, he can’t help it. His Mercury is squaring his Moon. So he doesn’t always express how he feels. But how he relates to me personally can be seen in our synastry chart. He feels close and comfortable to me and he has some things in our synastry chart that make it so that he feels like he can be honest with me — so he lies and comes back and tells me he lied.
On to Gemini. To clear it up for those who don’t understand Air signs, Gemini isn’t a liar as a personality type. They get on my nerves for many of their other qualities, but it’s not that they just lie for the sake of lying. What it is with them, is that they often contradict what they say seconds apart from their original statement. And that’s when it’s important to realize that they are more than 1 soul in a single body. If you point out their inconsistencies, they’re often completely unaware of it. They are often good at talking themselves out of trouble in situations, though.
Aquarius on the other hand? Aquarius is the highest expression of human consciousness there is. So don’t think for one second an Aquarius hasn’t used the fact that “most people are stupid” against you at some point in their life.
But Aquarius as a sun sign alone doesn’t automatically make a person a liar. You need to understand the personality type and then look at what other things in their chart would support how and/or why they lie. For instance, I knew an Aquarius guy who had the South Node on his Moon, which caused mental and emotional disturbance in him. So he lied all the time because of it.
Similar situation, I know of a woman who has South node on her moon next to Neptune — that woman is delusional!
So yeah. Hope that helps and also clears up some misconceptions.
Welcome, Ilza. 🙂
A fallen Mercury in Pisces doesn’t always point to a liar. And it’s a bit ridiculous to ascribe lying to an entire sign like Gemini, although a stellium does suggest someone so fast on his feet that he or she doesn’t care what they need to say to achieve an end. From what I’ve seen Lilith conjunct Mercury is a signature liar (and a careful, beloved one – our current Big O has the conjunction on top of a minor fixed star – WHEW!)
One of the Mercury square Neptune people I named in a post below has a T-Square consisting of Pisces Mercury/Moon square Sadgittarius Neptune AND opposing Virgo (Asteroid) Lilith conjunct a retrograde Saturn. In this case, the combination has produced a selfserving brick of Francesco Schettino – who, as I think I recall, has a Mercury/Neptune aspect too – proportions.
Are you saying Obama has a conjunction to Lucifer yeah I knew that from another forum. pretty scary stuff.
That is a complex t squared chart for Obama’s. Juipter Neptune and Sun it is the moon that came up empty promises of leaderships balance for recent hit and run issues
I’m with Mercury in Pisces, it’s not so much lying (they don’t see themselves as lying) but their view of the facts is kind of embellished to suit their needs, it’s like facts elude them. Took me forever to understand that.
Mercury in Scorpio or Sag, with a hard aspect to Neptune, perhaps?
I believe there has to be a harsh aspect to neptune too.I forgot about scorpio who keeps secrets.
I have mercury in Sag and I’m not a liar. If anything I blurt out too much truth at any given time. Looking ridiculous is a usual for me!!
I agree, I’m Mercury in Pisces with Neptune in Scorpio rising. I’m not a liar either but I am denitely spot one! My brother and stepbrother are 2 weeks apart natally both Gemini. One is basically a bigamist and both are extremely clever with their taxes. I agree with the Pisces / Gemini / Sag it forgetting The Scorpionic tendency to cover tracks. Look at Prince Charles TV denial of his longstanding affair with Camilla back in the day. I you can’t point to one sign of aspect but it can indicate and that’s all. That’s my honest opinion!
That should be I can definitely spot one… and not forgetting grrr.
I’ll bet you have a delightful sense of humor!
I’d say Neptune, for a lot of reasons. They hold back the truth so they don’t hurt you. Or they lie to protect their loved ones. Aquarius/ Uranus is also one that comes to mind. A bad 12th house.
I think when we are dealing with any kind of deception or things that do not have truth we have a lot of things happening Pluto Neptune,Saturn in affliction where ever there is a need that is be important, or to get back to too always win, or have control, two worlds exist….the desperate or need too win, and the disregard for moral karmetic needs then we have a criminal element….other wise small infractions a crack pot or petty thief….while in judgment, I cant say Gemini is a sign for a person who is a big story teller that has John Dillinger issues…he was born on June 20th, but his is a complex criminal chart…..
Mercury square Neptune, but then, the ones I know actually believe they are telling the truth.
I agree with the Gemini comment…just my personal experience
I am suspicious of many Geminis as well because of very limited personal experience (for better or worse), but as with all signs, every sign has its shadow. Gemini is “two faced,” which means they are versatile and broadly talented when they are strong and full of Light, or that they hide behind charm while being real shits in private when living out their shadow. I mean, really, ANYone is capable of that kind of nonsense, but I have been so totally flummoxed by Geminis, the pattern is hard to ignore for me. Mostly that they decide which reality they live in and go with it, so they aren’t “intentionally” telling an untruth (because they believe it). So I don’t think they’d consider it a lie anymore than any of us consider our own self-delusions to be lies. But it comes across as duplicitous to outsiders, I think. I find lying to others as an outward expression of dishonesty to oneself. So maybe a Mercury that straddles 12H/1H?
Moon in Gemini! Very dual in my experience. Sorry Gems.
stellium of Sun,Mercury/Venus in Cancer in 12th house ,plus Pluto in Leo on Ascendant.
Could jupiter square neptune be a clue for a liar? I don’t believe the Gemini thing , believe it or not, my family used to get mad at me for not being able to tell white lies on the phone to family members when they called and asked for my busy mom. And I have about six signs in Gemini. I don’t believe that hogwash!
My twelfth house is empty. So there’s that. And oh yeah…Saturn in Gemini in the tenth, topping my chart.
I think people with a lot of planets in air signs (particularly if it includes Mercury) are probably the best at lying but an affliction that give the desire to lie is required along with it.
I would suspect a heavy 12H, depending on signs and aspects of course. The 12H folks I know tend to at least live in self-delusion much of the time, and as a result, have few qualms about being deceitful in other arenas, when it’s convenient.
yes! Definitely self deception with heavy 12th house . And lying
I know most of you are generalizing but I have Mercury square Neptune and a grand air trine. I am many things but I am not a liar. I’m honest to a motherfucking fault.
I should specify I know four Mercury square Neptune people through work and projects. And they are either Leo Mercury square Scorpio Neptune or Virgo/Pisces Mercury square Sadgittarius Neptune. One of them, in fact, is very honest too, so I’m not saying everybody with this signature is liar.
But I’ve noticed there’s always some kind of confusion regarding Mercury square Neptune person’s view on how they are contributing at working, intellectual environment. This particular person is very proud of the fact she “always tells it how it is” (Mars is involved, after all!), when it practically has broken a community I learned to know her through. I tried to fix the damage for years, stop people just walking out of the project we were both involved at, then just gave up.
And oh yes, I have Neptune square Ascendant, and just dodge the Neptune square Mercury. But in my case, this being about Ascendant, I’m painfully aware people see whatever they want to see in me.
I think Neptune aspecting the 3rd house (thoughts/communication) possibly? Or, when you look at the synastry between you two, something (again) with Neptune?
Great question and complex. So many different kinds of lies.
Has anyone known a pathological liar, the kind they talked about on Oprah who has multiple ‘wives’ in different cities, and the women aren’t aware of each other? That would be a type of chart to study.
A lie is an interaction. Some combinations of types may attract this dynamic, but it could also depend on the health of the person at the ime.
Hi Elsa
I would say stressful aspects involving neptune/mercury. The persons involved would probably just define it as fantasy .. but never as lies …
Best regards
Eva
I have a stellium in Gemini and I hardly ever lie.
It’s hard because I feel there is a question around “what is the truth?”
Obviously saying you were not somewhere when you were is a factual untruth but there are shades within communications that may feel like absolute truth to one person and a lie to another.
Not generalising but I’ve found Libran energy can be deliberately vague or fluff the truth to avoid, head in the sand type thing or just to keep things pleasant…it’s tough cause it’s also a very fair energy too! They are keepers of justice and balance and mediation!
Or perhaps although I have Mars in Libra, my Cancerian Sun/Merc just filters it that way!
Mars square Neptune and Jupiter square Mercury. And I think that he believes telling the truth. Escaping. While being suspicious, not trusting anybody crossing his way.
This Neptune resides in the 7th house.
I would say harsh Neptune/Mercury aspects and/or Neptune in 3rd house.
I’ll be as prudent as I can, for I do not wish to offend anybody. A lot of Pisces in the chart, or Pisces on the luminaries, like the Sun and Moon, can suggest a person who would not be as forthcoming as a foot and mouth diseased Sadge. That’s a joke. Kind of. Also, if Neptune is involved (because it rules Pisces), especially in aspect to some of the angles: ASC, MH, DSC, IC – there could be a propensity for stretching the truth or being so far out in a fantasy world, that what’s true to them, may not be the actual truth to everyone else. That also includes harsher aspects to Neptune and any of the planets, including the Sun and the Moon. I, personally, have Neptune square Jupiter, and am prone to exaggeration. It’s not premeditated, by any stretch. But it just comes out that way. So am speaking from experience. Luckily, it’s always harmless and/or funny. That’s probably because Jupiter is involved. If it were Neptune square Pluto, dot, dot, dot, I think we’d be getting into some very creepy territory. But, I can’t generalize. I feel there are all different types of lies. Small ones and big ones. Some that are harmless and some that can destroy another’s life. Plus, I can’t single out an aspect in a chart to portray let’s say a pathological liar. That would have to be an aspect pattern involving some major players, like the outer planets, in a cardinal, t-, or grand square. But I have done charts for some who really were professional liars and made a living from their lies. From lawsuits and the like. This one guy am thinking of, who is a huge pathological liar, was a Cancer, though. Go figure.
I also can’t pin down what I think a liar would look like astrologically. I know Mercury-Neptune folks who don’t think of themselves as liars but they make untrue statements (such as promising they’ll do something) just to get you off their back or to not have to deal with you or to get something they want from you at that particular moment. Then, when you expect them to do what they said they would do, they can’t believe you would actually hold them to their word. And then someone mentioned Moon in Gemini and I checked out all the people I know who have Moon in Gemini and I do have to say that there may be some truth to that because all the Moon in Gemini people I have known have some major deception in their character, almost every one of them. Then there are the people who suffer from serious pathological lying — lying on a scale where the stories are embellished and involved and detailed. I had a friend who was a classic pathological liar — she made herself the hero of her factitious situations — but I just don’t see anything in her chart that jumps out at me as being a lying type of aspect. If anyone wants to look at her birth data, we’ll call her J.L. and its September 14, 1951, New York, NY, at 4:30 AM. Her lies were doozies and she could never keep friends for long because the lies got worse and worse and grander and grander the longer you knew her. It got to the point where you didn’t know what was the truth and what was the lie. Another reason why I think we’re all having trouble pinpointing what a “liar” would look like astrologically is because it probably is something much greater than this-or-that aspect or sign. The lying person has to exist in the bigger picture of the chart, so I would think it has to do with a whole pattern that shows up in the person’s chart, rather than just, oh, he has this planet square that planet, etc.
Possibly moon in Pisces and her aspect moon opposite mercury
My Pisces husband has Mercury square Neptune. After 18 years I don’t think I am going to follow him around like he is a heinous liar. I think he is in a world of his own sometimes and I don’t think he sees himself clearly but I don’t know him to be a liar (and I sleep with one eye opened)
My (30 year old) son has a Gemini Stellium and he gets pretty worked up and is a non stop gossip. In fact he rarely shuts up and we that know him the best tell him little (nothing we want kept secret) but I don’t think he runs around and lies all the time. In fact I think he is compelled to be brutally honest and it gets on my nerves…I tell him all the time to find some boundaries and sensor himself. I just asked him a month ago who died and left him the person in charge of bluntly telling someone something he thinks they should hear. I have been telling him he gives too much away and to shut the hell up for 28 years!!
If being deceptive is not telling anything…then I guess I am the biggest liar on earth. I think everything is no ones business. And I don’t give a lot away…(well I do speak openly here under the name ‘soup’) in everyday life…no…you’ll get very little. (5 planets in Scorpio) I don’t think that makes me a liar, I think things are not a persons business. No one should be probing me for information about my personal life. Why do they need to know? I tell a select few…I see no reason for every Joe walking the street to know my life story…. I also don’t like it when people I don’t know very well tell me their personal stuff….ewwwww
We are also greatly influenced by our upbringing. If mom and dad are openly lying about everything and a child sees this and accepts this as the norm they are probably not going to be much better….
https://elsaelsa.com/astrology/lies-and-liars-moon-square-neptune/
you sound at times like my mother, she has a scorpio stellium, her advise to all of us is it’s no one’s business. if you’re in a court of law, or for a police investigation or doing your ID passport, your spouse, loved ones, then you tell the truth (i know sometimes many of us tell white lies like, your dress is nice even though it’s not) lol that doesn’t make a bad person. anyway i think it’s very plutonic where you have to keep your distance because people out there will betray you or put you down or judge you ect.
Uhh… Barack Hussein Obama, Sun/Mercury square Neptune. Bob Dylan, once called “the master of misdirection”: Mercury square Neptune. Lots of examples from famous spies
Thank you, Elsa. I got tons of such stuff. Just a few more on Mercury square Neptune. Notorious spy Aldrich Ames caused many deaths. Once told an astonished teen date “..never let anyone know what you’re thinking. Exact aspect. A few more: Jonathan Pollard, American spy for Israel, now in jail for life. Julius Rosenberg of atomic secrets notoriety. Anthony Blunt, with more aspects, co-conspirator with Kim Philby, Britain’s legendary spy. George Blake, British spy. Wide aspect. Thank you.
So you’re a fan of QAnon I gather? Very truthy.
Sun in late Gem, island with Mercury in early Cancer. Moon square Neptune. Venus, Mars and Jupiter inconjunct Neptune.
I can only say “this is a pathological liar” because I’ve known them for 20 years.
My brother has a mutable t square with Mercury, Venus, Mars and Neptune.
If I saw a chart with a lot of hard Neptune aspects, I wouldn’t automatically assume liar. I would think very possibly self-deluded.
Gemini – smooth-talkers
Pisces/Neptune – may deceive themselves and/or others
I just read something on the pathological liar’s FB, and I can’t stop laughing.
They want to “put this lying ass in their place”. Says the same idiot who tossed around false claims of abuse, hate, and homophobia…and also stole hundreds, if not thousands, of $$$ from family.
This person lives in fantasy land and justifies everything they’ve done in their petty warped mind. There’s just no Saturning with this one, so…most of us walked away. Got much better things to do.
No, because everyone can lie, and everyone can learn to be good at it! It’s in all humans nature!
We have discussed something similar on lindaland forum, about libras and lying. It seems Virgo-Libra influences can make one good at lying. Indeed, I had childhood friend, libra and virgo stelliums. A true mythoman. She was a compulsive lier and was in need of a therapist. Her mother saw that just as a “she has a good fantasy” kind of thing.
Pluto and Neptune. Pluto is amazing at manipulating people to do or believe as they say. I know it, as I have myself used it many times, I’m not proud of it but yeah, thats the truth. Strong Pluto influences helps one to observe a person and with time know what makes that person tick. One can after that “costumize” a lie or half truth in a way that the person will accept it. Neptune, has great fantasy.
As a plutonian, I have lied to love interests, sometimes. Just to “transform” their way of seing me. It was a way to “controll” their view of me. Typical Pluto. Very dangerous in the hand of for ex politicians!
Other then that, no I don’t lie and I really really dislike lying, I feel fake and ashamed if I have to lie about something. Since I have Pluto oppo Mercury and Sun, I’m a lie detector myself and can sense stuff like that instantly.
Yapp, and I have Pluto in Scorpio in my 3rh house! Sextile my Neptune. And A virgo Asc!
These are all subjective answers, naturally. Personally I don’t believe there is any particular sign, configuration or aspect pointing to deceitful behavior.
I think it’s free will.
Maybe more a matter of synastry?
Mercury in Pisces, Mercury in the 12th house, harsh Mercury/Neptune aspects.
From my personal experience, I’d shout “Moon in Pisces”.
A very, very Neptunian Moon… It’s my father moon, so I know…
By the way, I have a natural dislike against lying, despite more than a few Neptunian factors in my chart, which are (unsurprisingly) challenged by Saturn in Virgo.
However, a newly progressed Sun in Gemini will ask you all folks:
What is lying?
And
Isn’t lying sometimes necessary to get through with life?
It’s kind of philosophical… but think about it…
And what about the white lies…? The truths we withhold from others…? What about being secretive and not fully open…? (Scorpionic attitudes some of these…? )
I don’t know…
All I can say is this: I have been through a lot, and when it comes to surviving, you may discover you possess some, otherwise, nasty characteristics, which you may have to access, even though you never intended to…
When it comes to surviving, don’t have any doubts: you will do anything it takes.
Moon in Pisces is very suspect…
Planets in Aquarius seems to be another telltale…When you are purportedly working for all humanity, lies are the norm apparently…
Low-Librans can fib like no other … to keep the peace or prevent hurt feelings, you understand. Low-Leos are also known to embellish, to puff themselves up. Low-Capricorns will lie to undermine you in business, steal your money. The more insidious, take you down the rabbit hole type, liars often have a Merc-Neptune tight orb square Jupiter (the ultimate inflater), 1st/3rd/7th H Pisces. Natal asteroid Lie is important to evaluate, along with Pluto (sexual misconduct cover-ups) in detriment. Of course, enlightened, self-aware people will be able to choose wisely and avoid harming themselves and others.
I failed to mention that, I believe it worthwhile to check out a person’s natal placement of asteroid Achilles. See if there is any shonky shizz going on there. Lol.
Why Achilles?
Had almost completely forgotten this: It is Orcus’ task to chase oath breakers. So in the individual chart he decides about truthfulness and willingness to lie, so the position of Orcus in the natal chart has to be examined.
I wouldnt trust a Mercury in Pisces. I have been dating for a while a Pisces guy (with 4 planets in Pisces, including Mercury in a sq with Uranus – but not even the square is bothering me, but rather the thing that Mercury is in Pisces).
As a Scorpio who am I, I may be also a little paranoid by default, but i feel him as a notorious liar. And my guts are rarely wrong. Once i caught him with something, i told him verbally, he had denied everything until i looked in my bag for proofs and threw them in his face. And his reaction was “How did you manage to obtain this?”. I was like “You, motherf***er liar who you are, i grant you few seconds to realize whom are you talking to!”.
So they are denying everything until they are confronting. And then they switch to verbal/emotional manipulation or play the victim.
But i think i’ve got 2 instances of those Pisces/Mercury in Pisces way of operating:
1. They dont necessarily have a well established plan on how to lie (how would I do for instance). They can be a monument of invented lies step by step, according to what the “local” needs are, hoping that they are going to dodge you and make you believe their sweet words and escape. And they are like “Phew, it worked this time!” —- its a bit childish i would say, they arent very pervert when they lie and this may be the reason why i dont behead them instantly for lying. Its like you see that someone ate the biscuits and the boy shakes his head saying “Not me!”.
2. a second point is that they lie also because they posess the skill of ignoring their realities. They simply have like an “ignore” button somewhere and they press it whenerver something doesnt suit their interests. And for the image of who they are from this honesty/lying point of view, they rely on you. As long as you believe they are honest, they consider that this is the truth about them. If they come from a relation of 5 years and he swears to have been loyal, its most likely that he says so because this is what he made the former gf to believe and this is the truth that she can say at the end of that relation. But not necessarily what happened. Like, the thief who isnt caught, is a honest man. Because he doesnt seem to have a honest dialogue with himself. But if you catch him and you show him what an as**ole he is, he would feel miserable and start complain that you behave like s**t with him. :))) Yes, incredible! Its a very strange way of them to deal with reality (their reality).
So, myeah, i would say i dont rely on Mercury in Pisces. Regradless of what aspects it may make. Isnt that they are bad persons in general, not even evil when they lie (actually i find Pisces very cute creatures), but they have some very specific particularities of mind system which make them a bit different per se. Just the simple position of Mercury in that sign.
On the other hand, i do believe that, in contrast to Mercury in Pisces, a Mercury in Scorpio is capable to lie flawless if they put in mind to lie. I have Mercury in Scorpio, i literally have allergy to lies and liars, my skin becomes itchy when i think of them,i am nearly obssesed. But if i ever put in mind to lie, i make a story and i build a strategy with 100 steps in advance that you can even ignore me as a liar simply because you will never find out that i lied. No fissures, no leakages, no flaws. But this is what i understand through the “art of lying”. Not what Mercury in Pisces does :))
Well said Sandra. A very scorpio reaction. Lie detectors as scorpios are. You hate lies because you are good at it, if you need it. You make a plan. But then, most people will believe you so the plan is useless. But really a scorpio control thing.
Pisces (mercury but also sun) are not planners. They will swim through the tides of life as it comes. As you say, your image of them decides who they are. For they want to please you and live up to the image you have. Their reality differs from ours. Not because pisces are liars. Or bad people. Far from, they are magic and wonderful but their reality is more like a dream or a projection than based on hard facts and traceable steps. Facts are not important to them. Illusions are their facts. Until an inquisitive scorpio keeps interrogating them over and over again, which they do not like at all, forcing them to make up new lies. They hope that will make you stop. But no. You
Keep on digging at the thruth until the last crumb. That is your part in the play of life.
I am noticing that where the moon is, the house tells where the person is likely to lie. Just a theory at this point. Also when the moon is aspected to neptune.
Example: Ben affleks moon is in Scorpio in the 5th house of children. He cheated with the nanny! Hugh Grant has moon opposite neptune. He lied when he was on drugs!
Yes. If they have a natal chart and are a person, they’re capable of lying.
Truth — Maybe it’s the motivations / energy behind it that is different but this statement rings totally true to me
While everyone is capable of lying, I read your question as: Who is most likely to lie?
Based on experience, Gemini placements (they are the twins, night/day, light/dark, etc.). My mom has Gemini sun & Mars and literally lied when ever it was convenient for her when I was growing up. She also has Mercury & Pluto conjunct in Cancer. Sometimes they were “little white lies” for convenience sake, other times huge omissions of consequence. As a sun, Mercury, Jupiter conjunct in Sag, I was the one to call her out on them. (She loved that! ? But as an adult told me of all her kids, I knew her the best.) This reminds me of when my brother called to tell me we have a half brother, older than all of my mother’s seven kids. As soon as I got off the phone with him, I called my mother to ask if she knew. Of course she knew. “You didn’t think this was important to share with your kids (once we were adults)?” Based on her replies, I cut to the chase and asked, “Ok, Mom, how many more are there?” “A few.” I was 40 when we had this conversation!
My ex-husband has Mercury, Venus, Uranus in Gemini all conjunct between 26-28 degrees (in my 5th house), and a Cancer sun. He was the most adept liar I ever met and I grew up identifying lies but, you know, “love is blind.” It took me ten years but once I saw it there was no way to “unsee it.”
Regarding the Neptune issue: I have a sibling who is sun conjunct Neptune in Scorpio conjunct his ASC, and it’s like he lives in his own reality. One could say he lies all the time but in his case he believes what he says to be true.
I never considered the Pluto aspect before but someone I never in a million years expected would lie to me (Aquarius sun conjunct Mercury, Sag moon) has sun opposite Pluto and did me wrong and has lied about it since. Not only lied but has gaslighted other’s perceptions of me around the situation.
Segue: I’m sun square Pluto but it seems Sun opp Pluto must win at all costs. Thoughts on this?
Summary: We’re all capable of lying. When people ask, “How are you today?” And you say, “Fine” when you’re actually miserable or in pain, etc., that’s a lie. There are gradations of lying from “socially acceptable” (example above) to politically correct to malicious and selfish. I’ve come to accept that one must acknowledge the possibility of this from anyone (regardless of relationship) and identify the motivation behind it. I believe karma is based on intention. If it’s the liar’s intention to hurt someone or get their way or have their cake and eat it too or smear someone to make themselves feel better, that’s different than a parent who lies “to protect their kids” or someone who says they’re fine when they don’t want to discuss whatever misery they’re going through.
This thread is like ‘projection central’ and is making me laugh out loud.
Big question, for me it was a narcissistic Aries Scorpio rising; when you are in receipt of lie?what to do ?with some children
The course correction can be subtle in the teenage years the thumbs down can scorch ego, like public shame not always helpful ?the adult
How bad is the truth? Mostly for me
Head in the sand too many years
Now jump like a bunny run like the wind laugh alone like crazy banshee woman,no like old crazy banshee woman,keeping me single at this point
Elsa, now I need to know! What does an “honest” chart look like? Top 3 placements in your experience. Thank you.??
Char, I don’t know. I didn’t know the answer to this question. I agree with above – anyone can lie.
I do think strong Jupiter is inclined to be honest / blunt, but they also tend to exaggerate, which is a lie, too.
Anyone can lie. Librans get away with it, i notice. So do Aquarians because everybody likes them so much. Leos usually wont lie but when they do, you know. Scorpios get away with lies because they can lie very well but usually won’t: they see lies wherever they may be in others. Sadges are no liars. They are blunt. They may exaggerate but that is not lying, it is enthusiasm finding a verbal form. They are underestimated people imho. No, i’m not one.
https://elsaelsa.com/astrology/sagittarians-telling-the-truth-god-help-us/
Ha ha.
The people saying Gemini’s are not liars are either in denial. or unwilling to accept this to be true for others sharing their signs and they are capable of doing so. If you are a Gemini who doesn’t believe they lie, you may have other aspects that cancel it out or you are just psychologically well adjusted and don’t feel the need to do so. But any Gemini who has rough aspects or is not mentally stable – absolutely the most capable of pathological lying for sure. Pisces in a close second. A Gemini and Pisces combo in a chart – just watch out, make sure they are psychologically healthy.
sadge can totaly blow things up until they’re unrecognizeable to other people who were there. ofc most of the people i know like this have their sadge in aspect gemini so ymmv…
haha, my sister can do this. she has sun in sadge. i have sadge rising. what a pair. LOL