Hookup Culture, FWB aka Rejection

LibraI work with a lot of people trying to get their relationship lives straightened out.  This task takes many forms and lessons come in a myriad of ways but in most cases, people are using dating sites or apps.

What I hear is a lot of women are offered sex.  Good looking man. Magic penis, gonna tune her up.

These men specify they are not looking for relationship beyond screwing and some of them are incredible pitchmen.

As an ex-salesperson, I’m stupefied by their skill but I realize that when a man (or a woman) does this, in reality you are being rejected, right up front and right off the bat.

Your crotch is not being rejected. YOU are being rejected.  Are you not more than a crotch?

What do you think of this?

39 thoughts on “Hookup Culture, FWB aka Rejection”

  1. Avatar

    “Your crotch is not being rejected. YOU are being rejected.” <– That is exactly why I refuse to use online dating services at all. I absolutely refuse, I don't care if I end up an old woman alone with thirty cats and a bad smoker's cough, hey, at least I'll be living life on my own terms and not enduring a string of needless bad experiences. I feel like you're messing with the universal forces (for lack of a better word) and interfering with the natural flow of things. It's better to meet a man who's your match in your day to day life. It's hard, yes, to wait for the right one but online dating is the devil, in my own humble opinion. 🙂

  2. Offcourse…but that is your responsebility to know, they have said what they want, if you want something more go somewhere else. I mean they are regecting you , but not as a person, as a relationship, does not matter how brilliant you are if they dont want that. I hate when girls or guys get in to this stuff and then say …but I thought he / she would change…and make the honest person to be the bad guy. You knew!I would not feel defeated being regected like this, I would not feel special in a bad way.

  3. this is so true. SO TRUE. “friends with benefits” is a nice euphemism for “do me and then get the fuck out.” one party is inevitably way more into the other (hoping against reality for a real relationship) and this imbalance isn’t healthy.

    it is true that in online dating you have to wade through a lot of mismatches, but when you do find someone you’re compatible with it is really nice. you just have to treat it as a game, sort of… and have lots of free time. although, the danger is that since you’re running into so many people that you’re incompatible with you might end up “settling” for the person with whom you’re not totally compatible with because you’re just so relieved that they’re not completely batshit crazy like everyone else you’ve seen.

  4. the stories i could tell about online dating.. TERRIFYING!!!

    but really, i’ve never thought of it as rejection. crotch or otherwise.. i think of it as weeding out the losers. if you can’t even talk to me based on a picture you saw, i want nothing to do with you and your grossly superficial self. if all you want is a roll in the hay.. once again, i want nothing to do with you because i am an 8th house lover.

    but i still sign on every day.. just to see. in the decade+ that i’ve been mixed up in the online dating scene, i have dated 4-5 guys (all horribly unsuccessful) and made one really good friend. that one friend made it worth the effort.

  5. hey my best friend met her husband online! just saying, don’t knock it w/o giving it a shot. it can be good especially if you live in the ‘burbs like she does. she just wasn’t meeting anyone new. i went on a few dates myself years ago (before match.com) when you could actually meet people on craigslist who weren’t murderers. i didn’t find a lover but i did find a cool guy who i hung out with for a while. anyway, maybe things are different now…wait, i thought this was about crotches!

  6. I don’t think this is so much about online dating as it is about being friends with benefits. Very good blog though…It is rejection, but as stated, I think it’s important that both play a role in it, but often one party is in denial. Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never heard of a woman offering a man a deal of friends with benefits…

  7. I agree with you Elsa. Friends with benefits is all about rejection. I don’t understand why people don’t get it. It’s also a bit soul destroying for those involved. I have never been in a Friends with Benefits type of relationship and never want to be in one. I have far too much self respect.

  8. I think people accept ‘friends with benefits’ thinking that things will change along the way, something like you never know where this might lead (although in theory the ending is stated right from the start). And maybe women accept it knowing that men rarely mean what they say or know what they want. I myself have known men that were determined not to date women that smoke, drink or act in a vulgar manner. A few months afterward I saw them with women exactly like that. Actually, I know women that have been rejected for drinkink alcohol just to see that afterward the guy hooked up with a girl that drank, smoke and sweared.
    In my opinion if love is in the stars for you, you’ll get, and of not, not. The important thing is to stay calm and not to panic.

  9. I loooooove this post. My Venus-Saturn concurs.
    I have experienced it in others ways, on dancefloors mainly. One of the best places to be, but not for meeting people. When i’m dancing i tune into my Mars-Nepune & Mars-Pluto, but when people meet me up front, they’ll bump into Saturn. That i like to dance my ass off doesn’t mean i like to have sex with just anybody, thank you very much.

  10. I dunno. There is such a range of relationship dynamics that people can have…I don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a non-committed sexual relationship with someone so long as it’s above board and rewarding for both parties. I’ve had situations with men who I really genuinely liked, though didn’t love romantically, and the “friend” part was very operative – it wasn’t just about sex. Sex does tend to complicate things so it’s not easy to get the right balance, so I don’t think these kinds of things work easily.

    If you are expecting someone to come around in time you’re doomed. But this is true in all “fixer upper” scenarios so I don’t see much of a difference. That in itself is also a form of rejection – “you’re not really what I want but I’m confident I can fix you”! Egads! How simply awful.

    If you’re talking “fuck buddy” scenarios, hell yes, it’s crap and definitely rejection. And yes, this is mostly what fwb online daters are looking for. The “friend” part is most definitely used euphemistically – it’s a complete ruse. Still, I don’t think one needs to take that personally. It’s clearly HIS/HER problem, not yours. I mean, how can a person reject you if they don’t even KNOW you?

  11. “I would not feel defeated being regected like this, I would not feel special in a bad way.”

    I agree. I’ve taken a lover, and it suited me and my chart. I’ve got loads of self respect– It was great for me, in fact. I can have a respectful and meaningful time with someone and not be life partners. When both people have their eyes wide open, it can be a profoundly healing person. At least for me, it was:)

  12. *profoundly healing experience

    I did have a love who helped me heal, too. He feels the same way about me. I’d come out of relationship with an addict and he came out of a sexless/loveless relationship. There was a lot of talking with this screwing, lol. I felt for years that he helped restore my faith in men. He was just so nice. The sex rocked my world, too.

  13. Avatar
    curious wanderer

    I mostly agree with the rejection part, but as it’s been said, relationships can exist on a spectrum. I’m incapable of doing this, but I can see two people who, for whatever reason, can be friends, but not partners, and have the physical chemistry to have sex as well.

    But truly, I think it’s rare. Most of the time it is “I just want to have sex with you and not anything else.”

    I’m also going to say, that as a woman, I have offered FWB to a guy. That’s how I found out I was incapable. 😉 But it was also to a guy that I was truly interested in being friends with, but absolutely no romantic leanings.

  14. I love this…’in reality you are being rejected’ So true!!!
    I guess it’s better to be upfront about it…that’s the only good that I can gather.

  15. Avatar

    I met my gf online… online dating is just a tool to justify an ending, theres nothing grossly at it, or terrifying. Its perfect for those who doesnt hang out much either by choice or by some other condition. You will meat the same exact ppl you would on the day 2 day experience, but in a larger scale, so you will meat alot more of those who you consider grossly/unworthy to your standards, but you will also have bigger chances of knowing those who meats your standards. Not everybody are online for one night stands, virtual sex, etc.

    I also made great friendships through online dating, ppl that through the chat or maybe a date, didnt meat my Virgo/Taurus standards for dating, but were perfect as friends.

    Ive got many friends that met their soul mates through the internet, some are in a long term relationship, some ended, some just started… i think its so common… internet isnt just sex, and theres no need to crucify online dating as theres nothing happening in it, that doesnt happen out of it through old school ways.

  16. 100% agree. It’s one thing if you had a hookup just for sex, both were agreeable- but I don’t think any kind of ongoing relationship just based on sex is going to really work. If it looks like a relationship and walks like a relationship– sorry, someone will believe it is a relationship and be crushed when yes, it was only sex. Yes, you are being rejected and as soon as the sex is off the table, it’s over. (That’ll boost your morale!)
    I dunno, I find sex to be probably the n. 1 easiest thing to find- a good person, a good relationship, that’s what is hard for people! Sex is very low-hanging fruit- indicative in these cases, of NOTHING.
    I feel bad for young girls or even women who do not get this. SEX= easy to get, meaningless without relationship, occasionally useful as a tool for self-growth even if the relationship is not there. That’s about it.

  17. Oh I think it’s misleading if someone says s/he’s only looking for sex . . . and then calls it “friends with benefits.”

    Because to be a friend with benefits, you have to be a friend first. If you’re only my lover, that doesn’t automatically grant you friendship!

    I think online dating services can be useful in some ways – I mean, I met the men I am dating now using one – but it’s like a search filter or a fishing net. Find me people in x geographic area who have at least y level of compatible interests with me. Part of the success depends on how good your net is. And you still have to do the legwork after you get fishies in the net, no?

    Interesting food for thought, Elsa, and solid advice as always!

  18. Well if that’s all both parties want, I don’t see an issue. I know one or two women who use adultfriendfinder for that purpose exactly, an adult “friend’ with benefits. If someone is looking for love and only finds sex well, welcome to the Internet!

  19. Avatar

    @Shannon “Because to be a friend with benefits, you have to be a friend first. If you’re only my lover, that doesn’t automatically grant you friendship!”

    You said it! I 100% Agree that said wow though it hurts I sure needed that reminder

  20. And I’m certainly not passing judgment on either – I have no moral issue with any type of relationship between two consenting adults – just think that people often misguide themselves and others by being sloppy with their nomenclature. Hence the “how good is your filter” question above, too.

    Not that I have any Virgo or anything … 😛

  21. am I the only person who thinks friends with benefits can be good?? I am married but if I wasn’t I don’t want another long draggy relationship- I would rather have my girlfriends for that and have men for sex!! maybe its because I have been married for 15 yrs I could say this.. but I have no problems with this!! Unless of course you want the relationship then is sucks.

    Oh and by the way my college roomate found her husband online after she broke off an engagement a yr before.. so ya never know!
    I think instinctively you know when a guy just wants you for sex or not- if you don’t then you have no filters for it.

  22. @Shannon that’s it! Friendship would definitely be about respect and if you add sex to it, it will be something different than having sex with a stranger for physical amusement. What can be a good experience either, provided that you feel freed and not rejected.

  23. Hmm, I’m dating a guy who really wants to reel me into an “boyfriend/girlfriend” relationship and I’m just not ready until I know for sure. Maybe jumping into the shack too soon can be confusing. I really like this guy alot – he’s wonderful…but I just don’t see long term potential…does that count as a rejection?

  24. Avatar
    Anna in Canada

    I think I’ll ask my husband for a magic penis tune-up tonight just so I can see the look on his face.

  25. When a man says that he doesn’t want a relationship, what he is saying that he is not really into you. If a man tells you that he cheated on his prior girlfriends, he is telling you that he will cheat on you too. Guys speak code but most men will tell you up front his intentions. OTOH, great sex does wonders for a person. It makes them more cheerful. So if a hot guy is providing really good sex and nothing else, go for it. But don’t delude yourself. I don’t worry about these guys. Most women will figure it out.

    I do worry about the charming psychopaths. The guys who act like they love you, who wine and dine you, then go in for the kill.

  26. I wouldn’t date a dude who’s only interested in my crotch. And I’ve had one dude offer to buy me lingerie once online!

    However, there’s nothing wrong with being f*ckable, you know. Take it as a compliment, man!

  27. Shannon’s point is right — you have to insist on honest friendship first, that generally weeds out the hosers.

    That said, FWB has its uses, but it’s trickier to employ successfully than you’d think. Like masturbation, it does the job but it’s not the real thing.

    Who among us doesn’t really want the real thing, whatever form that may take for you?

  28. One word…
    You’re single, you want sex without strings, you sleep with someone once or twice & B A M… feelings start flooding in & you can’t help bonding. Then it all goes to shit because here comes that imbalance everyone has been mentioning. All of a sudden you go from porn star to poetry.
    I don’t care what anyone says… it’s our Oxytocin levels that are screwing with us!!!

  29. I also think people with heavy Air charts are the ones that can get a great magic penis tune-up, with the best chance of avoiding all the strings attached crap.

  30. McKenna is right.

    I’m a busy girl right now in my life, trying to make career happen, and while relationships are always important, career is really my focus. I want and need to be self-sufficient before wooing. Take care of myself first.

    At any rate, in this situation a Mr. Right Now often does the trick. But damn that biomolecule of love gets me every time – oxytocin.

    I’d love to read a study comparing oxytocin levels in men and women after casual sex. After sex with friends with benefits. After sex with partners under six months, over six months, over 1 year, over 5 years, over 10 years together…etc. But particularly the sex differences. Nature did implement the design strategy to just get us to procreate (ie, fuck), but made women particularly susceptible to sticking around. Men can go, spread their seed. Women need to nurture. Women are designed to cling to men to try to get them to stay to take care of the children, too. Oh it’s so anti-women’s lib. Or maybe not, just a biological fact.

    I think I’m tough, that my mind can overcome my body, but always always the oxytocin chemical is so strong. Having lots of libra, love is my drug.

    I may in fact be addicted to the push me pull me rush of these sorts of casual relationships — the pain is also, in some senses, more immediate. What if you loved someone all your life and all of a sudden they decided they were someone different, that you weren’t the one for them? It may in fact be about risk tolerance. Those who engage in friends w benefits are, in fact, risk averse.

  31. I briefly thought about taking that one guy up on his wanting “to make me feel better”, that I mentioned the other night, but I don’t think that I could go through with it. I’ve thought about it in the past, but I want the real deal.

  32. @Krustellos… I can’t understand how, in this day & age, no one has done any research (that I can find anyway) into exactly what you were talking about above (testing levels after sex etc)… there is so much we don’t know- the Oxytocin focus is on post natal depression etc.

    I went on a mission (no joke!) to find out how to lower my levels. I was trying to get “unstuck” from this guy. I figured the only reason I was still with him HAD to be that =D (yes, another crazy Neptune Theory).
    Anyway, I asked pharmacists & docors etc… friends… they all asked why you’d want to LOWER them, but none of them really knew how.
    Far as I could tell, consuming alcohol lowers levels… I’m sticking to that theory, but after a morning quickie, it’s not really practicle is it!!!
    If I had the answer, I’d be The One Night Stand Queen. I really dislike the fact that I can’t feel good doing that.

  33. “If I had the answer, I’d be The One Night Stand Queen. I really dislike the fact that I can’t feel good doing that.”

    I might be, too, if I thought I’d enjoy it (I don’t like the idea of *needing* someone to be around – I’d rather be happy in myself, because I’ve been so miserable when the *want* increases, and I have no-one). I could eat someone for breakfast right now. Sheesh. Sorry, TMI.

  34. Oops! I’ve just realized that could be taken another way… *blush* I meant a man, but I can’t go through with it. He did get me thinking there, for a while, though. I was just saying last week, to jenfullmoon, in the comments on another post, that I would probably find myself a relationship, if I were out there sleeping around (transiting Uranus in my 5th house, and I don’t ‘do’ casual, but I keep hearing of other people who were just messing around, were out dating, and then met someone special).

    (For some reason, the rest of my post isn’t showing in the thread on “airheads” on the boards.)

  35. Honestly, people sometimes have really crappy reasons why they choose the people for a relationship. Closet homosexuals marry a member of the opposite sex; even though, they want to have sex (and sometimes do) with a member of their own sex. A man might be genuinely sexually attracted to a woman, but would never dream of marrying her because she isn’t docile, domestic, educated, wealthy, socially appropriate, and so forth. This is equally true for women. Also, some people have relationships for years and decades with people for whom they really don’t have deep feelings. They just want the relationship or some aspect of it. Compared to these situations, I think a guy who is up front about his feelings is perferable. The bad thing is when you aren’t honest with yourself. When someone tells you that he really isn’t into you. Listen.

  36. I agree completely. I think the nature of online dating is representative of the “easy” epidemic. Facebook = friendships without the work. Video games = entertainment + blood pressure up without effort. So the attitude gets passed along to dating, in my experience.

    I went out with three men from dating sites. One wanted sex in a parking lot and hit on my sister when I didn’t bite. The second jumped into Tantra talk five minutes in even after I made an effort to say, “You realize I want a RELATIONSHIP?” The third was sweet, but a few weeks in I realized I was paying for everything despite being on student loans and him working (8th house = sex/money).

    My in-person relationships have also gone down this path since I began dating at 22 (I’m 27 now). I find “guys” (not men) of my generation being very demanding without giving what the sacred feminine deserves in return: respect, adoration, love, and devotion. So as it has left me feeling rather husked out, I have withdrawn completely from participating until I sense a sea change.

    And I am looking forward to Saturn going direct. Libra energy is, IMO, part of the shadow of this society’s collective: discarded, disowned, and abused. As my moon and mars placement, I look forward to reaping some of the benefits of what I’ve helped sow as a Cap/Libra. 😉

  37. I think the problem is not that men (or women) are looking for sex, but that they pretend to be looking for a relationship, while their counterparts are expecting or fantasizing a relationship instead of realizing that they’re putting on the red light – as Sting would sing.

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