Dear Elsa,
If you know someone’s birthday but don’t know the exact birth time, are there any techniques one can use for trying to make an educated guess for when it might be? Would their first impression indicate their ascendant or their midheaven, i.e. public face?
Studying
Studying – I don’t rectify charts. That said, if I was going to do this I would probably forget first impressions. The physical appearance is probably the most reliable marker of the rising sign.
For example, Sagittarius or Jupiter rising (like me) almost always has an overbite. Moon or Cancer rising almost always has a round face, etc.
I would start there, and narrow things down to a rising sign or two or three. Then rotate the chart until the planets in the houses made sense.
I have only known one astrologer who specialized in chart rectification. One tip he gave me, the birth time is almost always, earlier rather than later. It’s because someone has to glance at the clock and note it. They’re not likely to do this, early.
Anyone else? How do you go about rectifying a chart?
Uh…Jupiter rising, as in you have the planet on the ascendant? I thought it was the first-house sign that was supposed to influence the looks rather than the planet(s) in the house.
I always have a hard time with this one. I tend to guess more on a person’s personality than I do with how they look, mainly because I don’t look like my ascendant and definitely more like my sun sign, and whether or not you “look” like a particular sign seems to be a matter of interpretation anyway. I guess on personality, then I do the same thing about twisting the chart around until it makes sense.
Jessica – I dunno. I like puzzles but not this brand, I guess. And yes a planet conjunct the ascendant modifies it and I am a perfect example.
Pretty jolly for Cap rising, wouldn’t you say? Dimples, overbite, distinctive thighs, throw my head back when I laugh… these things are jupitarian not Cap.
Jupiter rules the thighs… think haunches like a horse
I have a horse’s ass, LOL!
Actually I was serious but not to worry. To quote my sister, “The last thing a man wants to see is your ass walkin’ away.”
(Leaving them, this is – another Jupiter rising trait)
Is it for a math person, or a puzzle person? Because my Gemini moon (I think) likes puzzles. And I have tried this trick with a couple charts. But only people who are near someone I know very well. I picked the right birthdate (out of a 3-day range, before he knew) for his mom because he had this lifelong attraction to Libras (with no other reason in his chart) and only on this date did his mom have a Moon-Venus conjunction in Libra (he’s a Cancer, so go figure with the mom thing). And I think I’ve rectified his ex-wife’s chart because it gives her a 7th-house Sun/Moon and Gem rising, which fits. But these are just *puzzles* for the fun of figuring them out, or the fun of guessing. And I have to gather clues over time.
To rectify, first I look at the the time it is right now and put that in as the birth chart, if it makes sense I start to go with that. If that chart doenst talk to me, I look at whole signs, put 0° of the Sun sign on the Ascendant, to get a sense of things. If Saturn is in their 2nd, and they are happy-go-lucky with money, then I start to rotate the wheel until I find something with Sagittarius going on with money. If nothing works, then I go back to the solar chart again and think about the person’s life.
Are they going through a divorce, did they just fall in love, are they in university, do they have kids, etc. I ask them if they ever had a big accident or had a crisis or changed religions. I ask them when they got married. If you have been doing astrology for a while, you can remember how it is to have Saturn transit the angles and then you can imagine which angle was the last transit for that person. Are they really tired and in therapy for the first time of their whole life? Maybe Saturn is on the ascendant. It’s crazy I know, I have no real logic. I do find, the longer you know the person the more you will hone in on it.
You can also get someone with a pendulum to help…
Distinctive THIGHS? I love it. I’m quite sure you do.
Totally makes sense, it was not a rulership I knew. I just love the saucy description. “These thighs? Yeah, they’re distinctive.” 🙂
Well, that was a Jupiter joke, for sure.
Elsa and Jessica are both right. If you just want the general sign rising, it’s more of a puzzle, if you want the degree rising (out of 360), we are getting ito numbers.
I like your approach for the general sign, Dierdre, you then look at transits on the chart, correct? With your mention of Saturn in the 2nd, for example, I know some who are careless with money but another manifestation of this position is that one always has to work hard for the money that they have, be it lots or little.
In one branch of astrology I study, one can fairly quickly derive a Rising Sign by finding out (or by noticing) where is the most major scar mole or birthmark is, on the body. Like, something you were born with, something from childhood, or something that is the worst (or biggest, etc.)
A prominent scar on the face would be Aries, a mark, mole or something in the neck area Taurus, scar or mark on the foot Pisces, sholders or hands, Gemini, breasts, upper stomach, Cancer, pelvic region or genitals, Scorpio, I think Sag is the glut max and upper thighs, Libra, the area over the kidneys and spleen, Leo, the back, and the upper chest area (heart region), Aquarius the ankles, Capricorn the legs. And Virgo is the area between the solar plexis down to, like the kidney area.
For people with late degrees rising in their sign, this should work because you will have the same rising sign in both branches. Like, I have Pisces rising in both branchs, and my most major mark is from a horrendous injury to the bottom of my left foot.
But if you have fewer than 24 degrees rising in your western sign, your scar or mark may be in the preceeding sign.
Im responding almost 12 years after original comment was made. Lol. The scar/ marking isnt an accurate technique. I am a pisces Rising and have no scars or marks on my feet. I have a mole on my neck and birthmark on my stomach. According to the said scar/marking theory, if my time were rectified based on those alone it would be off by hours and incorrect.
Surely you do not mean your own ass, Elsa, so is it the soldier to whom you are referring? (KIDDING) smile smile smile!
Yea, men don’t like to see the woman’s ass walkin away because when she goes, her pussy goes with her!
Oopsie, that’s wrong, I forgot, the soldier is a rhino.
The birthmark method is interesting. I have a birthmark on my upper right thigh. I’m a Taurus rising. I have Jupiter conjunct the ascendant, barely in the first house. Jupiter rules Sagittarius. So in my case, Jupiter may trump the rising sign for the birthmark placement.
I did have a mole on near my lips that was removed many years ago.
And, I do have a big butt..
That is interesting, Sue Ellen, and lol on the butt. According to me (and for myself, and a tough battle) big butt is better than …
Yes Loonsounds, thats what I meant, that I look at the transits and timing. oh yeah and scars, I have always felt like someone could do a knee-reading on me — Capricorn ascendant, my left knee could tell stories.
I do look Capricorn as in I have very good posture and control of my body. My sister (also Cap rising) is a dancer as many dancers are. She can make her body do whatever and we became aware of this.
“Put your foot over your head.”
“Okay.”
::smiles::
Just check my double Cap grandfather standing on his head on top a mountain when he’s 80 years old. That ought to resolve the Capricorn in my family question. 🙂
Hmmmmm…I’ve got this happening too between Jupiter and Saturn. My ascendant is exactly 0 degrees capricorn if we went by my published birthtime, and I gotta say I’ve had a pretty darn saturnian time of things in my life. However: I am five foot ten, broadshouldered, dark hair that goes reddish, big teeth and an overbite, and have lived the life of a semivagabond — well actually a secret vagbond because there’s this thing in my family about keeping up appearances.
I think you look cappy because of your dark eyes and hair, but because of the other things you mentioned maybe there actually is an ascendant cusp in some cases.
I had a birthmark on my lower back, now removed, but I am definitely not a Leo. Gemini rising, 29th degree though, so cusp of Cancer rising. Lots of hand, arm and shoulder issues. I’m wiry built, walk and talk fast, use my hands to illustrate everything, and can’t keep still. I love puzzles, and words in any form. And of course the mischievious Gemini twinkle in the eyes :p
go with my gut and see whether events in their life line up with house transits.
i have moles on my face and moles on my back, but nothing between the solar plexus and kidneys 😉 (i guess the back is leo which precedes my middle virgo ascendant but this makes no sense to me.)
i also have venus, uranus, mercury, neptune, and jupiter in some aspect to my ascendant so it doesn’t do me much good with myself (too many signals) but i can with others, sometimes.
With a great deal of difficulty. Sorry I don’t recommend pendulums and body types as a way of adjusting the ascendant. Techniques that do have some merits are Age Harmonics, solar arc directions and family dynamic charts. There is no easy way unfortunately, and it requires gathering important life info from your chart person. I would say the going price for rectification should be about $1500 and take a good six months.
k
Interesting…I have Mars rising (below horizon) and no one has EVER told me I look like an Aries, but I DO have a distinctive mole between my eyebrows (!) and one on my cheekbone.
Aquarius rising at 13 degrees and I have a noticeable scar on my right shin. What rules the shins? Is this reasonable?
My dude has a Libra rising at 26 degrees and when he gets home from work, we are examining his torso.
Love this, I always try to guess people’s rising signs, just for fun.
Loonsounds, that’s very interesting. My ascendant is Pisces (6.49), when I was very young I O.D.’d on sleeping pills from my mom’s purse. I have a scar just above my right ankle – something to do with being brought back to life. But that’s not my foot, nor is is the most noticeable thing. Probably the mole right under my nose is the most obvious. Have no Aries though.
Also, my Sun, Venus and Mars are all in aspect to my rising sign. What then?
Heh, I have no scars on my genitalia (and I shudder to think how my life would be going if I did…). Moles on my face are as close as it gets to anything noticeable.
OK see this makes me wonder what a Gemini rising is supposed to look like. And if that Saturn sitting on top of it is going to make a difference? What about my sun wedged in there?
Now I gotta go research.
I’ve Sag Rising and have an overbite, LOL:)
Just to add to the statistics;)
Leo rising (male, obv) is supposed to go bald early and it’s true in my experience. So when the hairline is receeding and the emphasis is no longer on hairstyle, notice the eyebrows; they tend to be very impressive:)
And yeah, I have very strong legs. I love hiking in the woods and can outlast most women, at least. Moon in Taurus, too. I come from a long line of farmers, heh…
Snapdragon, the ankle scar makes perfect sense. Remember I said that if your Rising Sign is less than 24 degrees, then the scar might be in the area described by the previous sign? See your Asc. is 6.49 which is less than 24 degrees. So the scar or mark will often fall back to the sign before Pisces, which happens to be Aquarius, which rules the ankles.
Jennifer, LOL. Scars to the pelvic region or near the genitalia are not the end of the world, by no means. I had a radical hysterectomy at a fairly young age due to massive endometriosis, and nowadays they make it into a beautiful little scar, about two inches long, which is right under the top of the hairline. And even then it fades to barely noticeable.
Anyway, this approach of looking at marks and so forth is only one of all the wonderful approaches mentioned above. It is much much easier to try to determine a rising sign if the person has an approximate time of birth like they sometimes do. You know, “mom said I was born sometime during the afternoon.” “Dad said he had to leave work in the morning when I was born.” or “They say I was born in the wee hours of the morning.” But when you have Nothing to go on, and really want to know, maybe you could try some of all of the above.
there’s an interesting website:
http://www.astrofaces.com
Yup, I’m on it. I just went and looked. OMG my hair is so so so short there!
This is was very interesting and I have another question similar to this. I was wondering when doing charts & readings for someone who doesnt know their birth time should you continue to make a guess for their reading or is better not to guess work with what is accurate leaving out houses and ASC discussion in the reading?
Anyways back to the disccusion, its interesting looking at moles and scars for ASC guessing but I have a promient scar down my chest from heart surgery and im a pisces ASC not a Leo. I do have great feet for dancing though (ballet esp cos of my high arch)
Funny about the Cap ASC. My sister is a Cap ASC with Jupiter Rising. She is a dancer, has great posture, always laughing and smiling and has a great ass. In fact guys have literally stop her and say to her “Please rewind that walk” Its harilous.
Did I miss Loonsounds pic? Snap – if you want me to see it send it or send a link! askelsa at gmail
which one are you Loonsounds?
It’s embarassing, so try not to look at the stupid ridiculous hair which is like, one inch long. But in the category Pisc rising, Taurus sun, Leo moon, I am the one with the eh….Very short hair (I think I am the middle one of the three of us.)
Whoa, heart surgery? That’s serious, scary stuff! I saw a scar like that one time, it was very long, right down the center of the chest. As Pisces rising, you have Leo ruling the 6th house of health, right? Me too. Leo is heart, of course, 6th health (among other things) .. I do have concerns as heart stuff runs in my family. How did you find out about yours? I am afraid to have an echo. They alreay said I have an abnormal EKG because quote “we don’t know why, you just do.”
Onto the other matter, the only thing I can resort to on the theory (which certainly did not originate with me, but which I like working with, the marks and etc.) is that your feet have something unusual about them, namely the high arches. I know, I know, that’s lame.
How cute! was that pic taken very long ago? I’m a little nervous about having my picture on a website like that
Well thanks, that’s sweet! That picture is from about 2 or 3 years back. I’m working on a myspace which will have more current stuff (because as of now, I have two domains and I can’t find any of them due to lost passwords and outdated info. where are the Virgos when I need one? ;-))
So if a person wanted to share their pic (but not necessarily with the general masses) do you know how they should go about it?
Thanks, CynO – Loonsounds, you’re a great looking blonde! Who knew! 🙂
Elsa Loonsounds was saying that her picture is on the website i posted a link to!
http://www.astrofaces.com
Hers is teh middle pic in the pisces rising, tauraus sun, leo moon category.
Yeah I want to see other Gemini/Scorpio/Scorpios but I’m the only one with that combo.
Satori I love your ability to crush on a random face.
And its a wonderful pic of you Loonsounds! i like it.
Imagination is good! 🙂
yeah, you’re a beauty!
some of my former hairstyles are notably cringeworthy. I can’t stand to see them in pics now.
I have a wee crush on the piscessun, cappymoon, librarising guy pictured on that site. ::rollseyes::
I looked at the two examples of my sun/moon/ac and while they don’t look like each other, we all three share some distinct facial characteristics! weird!
do you actually know this guy, Satori?
Unfortunately they don’t have any Scorpio Sun, Taurus Moon, Pisces Asc. pics up for me to compare myself to…
what do you think Elsa (only if you’re not too busy) do I look like my signs?