Dear Elsa,
If you know someone’s birthday but don’t know the exact birth time, are there any techniques one can use for trying to make an educated guess for when it might be? Would their first impression indicate their ascendant or their midheaven, i.e. public face?
Studying
Studying – I don’t rectify charts. That said, if I was going to do this I would probably forget first impressions. The physical appearance is probably the most reliable marker of the rising sign.
For example, Sagittarius or Jupiter rising (like me) almost always has an overbite. Moon or Cancer rising almost always has a round face, etc.
I would start there, and narrow things down to a rising sign or two or three. Then rotate the chart until the planets in the houses made sense.
I have only known one astrologer who specialized in chart rectification. One tip he gave me, the birth time is almost always, earlier rather than later. It’s because someone has to glance at the clock and note it. They’re not likely to do this, early.
Anyone else? How do you go about rectifying a chart?
oh hells no… I think it was a matter of “take some narcissism, add a libra face, shake well…” heh.
oh yeah, fictional or animated characters too!
when you’re celibate for long periods of time imagination is essential! 😀 (thanks!)
i’m with you on that one Satori!!
Oh, you guys are so totally sweet! I am shocked that anyone can see past that hideously absurd haircut which my last ex (the LEO, naturally) would never let me get it cut again. “Cringe-worthy” that is the perfect expression for it Satori. And I Really cringe to remember how long I had it just like that, more or less, but I cut it myself (obviously) and boy, I got pretty damn carried away with the bangs around the time of that pic. EW!
You guys, it’s easy to submit one, and there is no name attached to it, go ahead, why not? Might be kinda fun.
Loonsounds you look totally cute! I wouldnt worry about the haircut at all.
Yes you’re right I have Leo ruling the 6th house like you. I was born with an rare heart condition and Having a irregular EKG is ok, dont let it alarm you. I think the best thing you can do if you’re worried is to ask your doctor and just have regular yearly check ups. Plus Leo ruling the 6th house can mean lots of different things.
Satori you have me in stiches…. I can crush fictional characters and such I think its a pisces/neptune thing… Fantasy Fantasy Fantsy lalalala
Loonsounds and Skye, I have Pisces rising as well. Jupiter in Leo. My heart seems to pump a little weird on a fairly regular basis….
Snapdragon and Skye, since Leo rules 6, maybe a lot depends on placement and condition of the Sun. My sun is in the 2nd in Taurus conjunct Merc. That pair is opposed Saturn in the 8th, and then the Moon in Leo makes a T square. So the sun, in my chart, is affected by the opp. from saturn and the square from the Moon, plus, I don’t the firey sun much likes being in earthy Taurus.
Then, looking at the sun placement, 2nd house rules over a lot of different things, voice and speaking voice being one (as opposed to what one actually says), self esteem another, and earned income from employment a third.
Health wise, I always had to work on self esteem & it still comes and goes(mental health), I am not very much NOT bringing in earned income, (but I am lucky in inheritances and things like that, eighth house). I cannot sing for shit (voice). And I have a definite speech impediment, but it comes and goes depending on the state of my nerves and so forth.
I think it would be an interesting thread and I may suggest it as an open question, but snap and skye, can you tell me the placement of your sun and whether or not it takes hits from hard planets? I’d be interested in hearing this for all pisces risings.
Ummm, Loonsounds this is a little advanced for me (and I am just about to walk out the door) but I can tell you that my sun is in Scorpio.
My sun is in the 8th house. Sun conjunct Venus, sextile Mars, square Jupiter, trine Ascendant. Also sun square Juno. I guess it aspects a lot of planets. I look them up individually, but I have a hard time understanding it as a whole.
P.S. What are hard planets, and hits from them?
See Snapdragon, it was not too advanced for you, you answered all my questions! I don’t know much about those…I forget what you call them, Juno, actually, nothing, so maybe you are actually more advanced than me! ;-).
I consider the harder or more challenging planets to be Mars, Saturn, all of the outer planets, especially Pluto, and both Nodes of the Moon. Many will not agree with me about the nodes, that is my own view.
Hits from them, by my def, would be conjunctions, oppositions or squares especially with tight orbs (very close by degree) and applying toward one another, Like Moon 12 degrees Sag conjunct Saturn 15 degrees Sag Retrograde. See, they are only 3 degrees apart, and they mutually apply, the moon moves toward saturn, and saturn toward the moon.
Oh no, Loonsounds. I only managed to answer all your questions because I have it all written down. (it’s getting messier by the day, with all my notes here and there!)
My North Node is in Taurus, South is in Scorpio. I think I just added a link, so if you want to see what I look like, or check out my chart, you should be able to. When was your pic. taken, Loonsounds?
This should be the photo of me.
Snapdragon- at least you know which questions to ask. I don’t know where to start!
I do Spinner?!!! I am feeling so lost and out of sorts this weekend. Life after my relationship ended (almost 3 years ago) just doesn’t seem to be working out quite like I expected it to… Guess I just would really like someone in my life right now, and that doesn’t seem to be happening. K, i’ll just take a moment and suck it up. :o(
Spinner, that can’t be right? Didn’t you say that you were 53, but that pic was only taken 2 or 3 years ago? Somethings not adding up…
Snapdragon- I am 47. I haven’t posted a picture. Is there a bizzaro world elsa blog that I am only vaguely aware of?
So my mom wanted to find out her birthtime tonight, but her birth certificate doesn’t say the time. Nor does my dad’s (they were both born 1946). Is this common (in the States?) when did they start putting birth times on records? I wonder if there’s a way we can call the hospital and see if it’s on record – doubt it.
Sorry Spinner – little mistake there. Actually meant Loonsounds.
Check out this site too.
I met this fellow in person. It is about the power of sound and music to affect the vibration of water and by extension every molecule and atomic structure. Amazing stuff really. When I attended his lecture he had us all sing Eidelweiss. It was beautiful!
Snapdragon, Thanks for letting me see your photo, you are cute, cute cute cute, so cute! Love the look with the glasses, you are quite young yourself, yes? I just glanced at your chart, not sure if the year was posted. You have the mystic rectangle, cool!
OK, let me try to get more precise on how old that photo is, I was just estimating but I can figure it out. I was in between San Diego and San Francisco, on a road trip. That would have been February of hmmmm… (wheels spinning in head as math trys to happen)2003 or 2004…lets just say 03, and so I would have been 48 in that photo. And now I just turned 53 in Feb. So it is actually 5 years old and 3 months, oops! My bad or what?
I’ll link a current photo soon, I can still pull off looking much much younger than I am in photos and I’m told I look younger than my age in real life.
Actually, it was Spinner told me that LOL :-). But also remember the Neptune Rising feature. I have read (and it is certainly true in my case) that Neptune rising people don’t quite ever photograph true to how they really look in person.
They either look a lot worse than in real life, or a lot better. My photos go half one way, half the other so naturally I pick the best one to post on http://www.astrofaces.com (or anywhere else) … at least the best one, as I saw it at the time, and the ridiculous hair notwithstanding.
Oh and by the way (Taurus sun) in that photo I was sitting right in front of a plate of those fluffy belgain waffles with all kinds of sugary fruits and whipped cream all over the thing, getting ready to dig in, so I was, like, especially happy ;-).
that is so true about neptune rising, even my husband said photos usually never look like the real me and it’s always changing, must be the mutable.
i was interested in mystic rectangle charts as i saw Margot Robbie have one and she’s doing great in the acting industry despite all the SAG strikes. Huge success and maybe i think the mystic rectangles are very special. as i read its got a ton of supply in terms of talent.
No way 48! Now I need to go back and look. Not sure how close I looked but sort of thought late 20’s?
Thanks for the compliments. My photo was taken maybe this Jan. and I am 42 – not so young?!!! Seems to me that somewhere in my chart it says that I should look younger than I am… And of course I pick the best picture (they’re all the best, right?!!! LOL)
That meal sounds deeeeelish!
What’s the mystic triangle?
No problem Snapdragon. Loonsounds is right, you are cute!
emoto
https://elsaelsa.com/astrology/2009/07/02/the-power-of-love-and-friendship-the-benefits-are-far-reaching-and-eternal/
LOL mystic Rectangle, not mystic triangle, that sounds scary, as if one could get lost in ones own life. Actually, it is almost a double mystic rectangle. From what little I have read about it, I have heard that it is a very spiritual configuration.
And, listen up, you look about 15 years younger than your age too! We need not be surprised, 40’s and 50’s sounds so old when we are young, but it comes before you know it and lots of people age well. I have heard that at highschool reunions the women tend to look way better than the men but I don’t know. I have not been to one yet.
Yes, I think there are astro things that can make people look a lot younger than they are. Venus in the 1st house is supposed to cut you a little luck in appearence, and maybe that is my saving grace, but I had really crooked overbite teeth and a big space between the two front teeth, so orthodontia helped also.
Oh, guys be sure to check the stats on http://www.faces.com too, that is an interesting section. Pisces rising, Aquarius rising, Aries rising, and Taurus rising are all .05 and .06 percent of the population with all of the other signs being higher, some going up to 12 percent. It has to do with daylight or something. So we are rarer. Do you feel rare?
I do, I feel rare in the sense that I relate to this song part of which goes, “I’m a freak, I’m a wierdo, what am I doing here, I don’t belong here.”
Snapdragon- I am sorry you are feeling lost. My Mom taught me a song when I was 4 or 5. I am sure that you have heard it. It helps to sing it if you are having a shaky day. ‘ Oh what a beautiful morning, Oh what a beautiful day, I have this wonderful feeling, everything is going my way.’I know it sounds corny, but it really works.
Isn’t that from Mary Poppins or something? >~<-)
Loonsounds- I think that you are right. emoto showe us pictures of water crystals that had been exposed to the word love versus crystals that had been exposed to the word hate. He showed us pictures of water crystals that had been exposed to punk rock versus beethovens symphony etc. The differences were startling. If what he talks about is true, you might want to get a new song than I am a freak, I am a wierdo. hahahaha. I am too but, I am not going to sing it out loud.
Elsa- PS That’s what I love about you!
Elsa, I checked out that link and loved it. Especially the part about, “yesterday, perhaps I thought I had a clue..” Wow, that’s me in a nutshell! Think I’m going to clip it, if that’s alright (it’s worth saving)
Thanks Spinner. Sometimes my emotions get the better of me – it’s tough being a Scorpio, Pisces rising. Way too emotional. It’s really true, about absorbing energy (emotions, whatever) from around you. Even just how the sun is weird around here right now….
Snapdragon- Are you taking a Blog vacation?
No Spinner, I’m here. Not usually during the day, cause I’m working. And not usually til after I put the kids to bed at 9:00.
This blog!! By the time you finish reading all the posts…. I don’t know how Elsa keeps up with everything (and as we all know, this blog isn’t all she does!)
Loonsounds, your picture shocked me. I don’t know why…in a good way though! Thank you for pointing out the Neptune/12th/Rising connection–maybe that’s why in some of my pictures I feel like I look very unlike myself. Snapdragon, yours caught me by surprise, as well! I felt like I knew you instantly. Yours is a very warm and lovely face.
Just for fun–here’s a picture of me and some family members (I’m in the top right: Taurus Sun/ Capricorn Moon/ Sagittarius ASC):
http://chrispito.blogspot.com/2008/05/random-friends-with-pluto.html
Oh yeah…I’m bald in it but have hair now (it was taken about 5 mos. ago)
Um, yeah…I’m the top LEFT. Jeez Louise!
oh sorry to post back so late Loonsounds. To answer your question my sun is in scorpio in the 8th the same as snapdragon which is really weird!
My sun is apart of a very tight stellium cojuncting pluto, venus and saturn which all square my moon. Hope that helps you.
I cant believe the both of you are in your 40s I seriously thought late 20’s early 30s 🙂 Great photos!
Loonsounds, Snapdragon and Kashmiri -thanks for posting your pictures! You all look great! I feel like I could invite you over for a cup of coffee or a drink and we could talk for hours.
Elsa- I have been trying to post a picture from my prehistoric home computer of me in Mexico and I can’t seem to make it work. I think I can e-mail picture of myself that was taken for work though. What is your e-mail address? If I send it to you could you post it here?
Don’t know if anyone matches up on here, but I just read (and responded to) a post on Seduction Central about Uranus and Pluto in the 7th House. I think at least some of you know about the Scorpio Sun guy that I have been interested in. Oh my gosh, the whole thing is right there! It matches me like perfectly.
I just get nervous when I think that someone is going to tell me, “Oh it’s just this that or the other happening, it’s not going to last!”
Spinner – a coffee would be great! Anyone else up for one?!!! ;o)
Looking forward to seeing a picture of you…
Thanks Skye!
Kashmiri, you are so funny, and you’re picture reflects that (I just went back and looked at it again). For the heck of it: I am Pluto trine Moon
:o)
spinner – askelsa at gmail.. thanks
sorry if i was not clear? hahahahaha
So how would you account for planets in the 1st house? For example I believe my birth time is right (mostly) because it’s not on the hour/half hour/quarter hour/ or rounded. I’m a Cancer rising with Jupiter in Leo retrograde in the 1st house. I have a round face, a tendency toward fat (always have had a belly since puberty, have rolls now) and I have a slight overbite.
I’m curious as to how you’d rectify charts. For example I have the noon chart of a guy who’s a hyperactive yelly publishing machine who has a c.v. the size of a novella and who has 4 cell phones for himself.He’s tall and skinny and runs half marathons for fun. I was thinking Mercury on one of the angles or in the 3rd or 6th house (because mercury is in virgo)
The Asc ruler adds to it all as well, especially if its strong and angular, and the rising planet can mitigate things a lot too. I do love to figure it out though if I can, usually just by talking to the person and getting a feel for them. I’m not into rectification techniques either…a big time waster in my book.
BTW, I follow Emoto’s work too. I have the words LOVE and APPRECIATION printed facing inwards on my water bottle and I love knowing that I’m drinking ‘love’ water every time I take a sip or use it for cooking. Yay Emoto!
my astrological siblings…..they are good looking in a innocent child like way…they don’t look the same but they all have the Gemini twinkle in their eyes.
gemini sun, taurus moon and scorpio rising
http://www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces/index.html
I’ve tried my hand at this quite a bit (strong astrological intuition). I find knowing the person helps tons. I was able to accurately figure out my father’s chart by moving things around a bit until the placements made startling awesome undeniable sense. It was….indescribably satisfying. I’ve tried it a few times, but I need to ‘know’ the person to put the whole chart together. But I am getting better with recognizing ascendants.
It’s interesting what you say, Elsa, about Sag rising’s having overbites. None of the sag rising’s I know do, but they have planets in the 1st house. I have a huge overbite and I’m a Leo rising. I have noticed that Leo’s have that hair of course, and big teeth. Sag rising’s have ‘laughing eyes’, Pisces rising’s have Neptune eyes, or people with strong pisces in their chart. Scorpio rising’s always appear dark and intense of course, in varying degrees. I find that Aquarians and Aquarian rising’s have broad open foreheads.
ramble….. :p
My rising sign is Cancer, but one look at my hair and the Uranian Ascendant is obvious. A haystack in a hurricane that refuses to be tamed. The temperament is also a mainly unemotional Uranian, and “feelings” filter through through mind before being acted on, despite a moon/nep con on nadir.
rectification is a very “multi-dimensional ” task. Start with a basic birth chart. Make an estimated guess at time of day. Ask for significant life events. Set up that chart. Then do secondaries for the birth chart. Overlay the charts and rotate the birth chart and you get fairly close to where you need to be.
Another trick is find times and dates of other family members, and the duplications in degrees soon become obvious. Degrees tend to repeat themselves. But that is cheating *smile*.
Get a few markers, like you said, and I narrow it down.
But it can difficult – I tried to do a chart of someone who was either a Pisces rising or an Aquarius Asc with moon in Pisces conjunct, or something akin.
In the end I refused to try to guess and went on what I could conscientiously give the person w/o making stuff up.
My mother-in-law, with Aquarius Moon delicacy, asked me whether I’d looked at the clock, once “our” baby was born. I had, and I knew that only a minute or two had elapsed, since his arrival.
Ahhh, what a beautiful, valuable thing, to have had a mother-in-law who had decided, when her sons were small, to love their future partners, as family. <3