I have a friend who is cautious because whenever he tries to shirk anything, he’s typically caught and the consequences are generally severe.
I, on the other hand, get away with almost everything. When I am caught the consequences are what would be expected some of the time, but frequently they are light and even more frequently they are waived all together.
It sounds like this: “Hey, Elsa I know you did this and this and this.”
“Uh huh?”
“Think you can stop.”
“Yeah.”
“Okay, then. Sorry to bother you…”
Now it doesn’t always work that way but it works that way often enough to notice and I have never, ever been handed down some kind of death blow punishment so why do you think this is? Why the disparity?
I wonder if it comes down to Saturn in the natal chart. If you have a well placed and well aspected Saturn might authority figures lean on you as opposed to crush you or throw the book at you? And do people with hard aspects to Saturn get slammed?
For the record, I don’t think it’s fair. I mean, I have Libra so I know it’s not fair but it does seem to happen this way. Do you notice this and if so how do you explain it?
I stay out of trouble most of the time, so when I do get myself in trouble, people don’t expect it and usually feel concerned rather than angry, so the consequences of what I did are less severe or muddled. I think it’s because people see me as smart enough, that I learn simply from being told not to do something, and in part because I think people just want to like me, that I’m charming or nice enough or someshit. Oh, and if I do get caught with something, I don’t deny it. I have a “Yeah, so? I did it. What are you going to do about it?” attitude. That throws people off bigtime.
I assume it has a little to do with my moon-jupiter conjunction (its trine my midheaven) so I’m on good terms with authority figures, a little to do with my sun-saturn TRINE (which goes great with your theory), a little to do with my libra ascendant so I know how to appeal to people, and a little to do with the fact that I’m a gemini and can talk my way out of everything if necessary.
June I really like your analysis and your candor. So in other words, you tell the truth and if that doesn’t work you have a lie ready?
::ducks::
Ha ha
This is a joke in the Gem / Jupiter truth telling lier vein. 😛
even if i wanted to lie i can’t. it invariably gets me in horrible trouble, or someone near me. but i can choose to not talk about things, no problem.
(saturn/mercury square….)
authority figures tend to like me, though. i can charm them. or something. have that whole “innocence” thing going. somehow.
(saturn trining eighth house venus in aries.)
i have saturn in virgo (7th house)to the degree square gemini sun (and in wider aspect to mars and mercury). & have always had my feet held to the fire for ‘infractions’ real or imagined, that others just skipped through. and while i wouldn’t exactly recommend this chart placement, it has had a couple of good effects. first of all — i always check and then double check my work, excellent practice for a writer 😉 and secondly, since i discovered that rightly or wrongly i may be raked over the coals for my actions, have learned to trust my own judgment.
Uh, it depends. Generally my infractions go unnoticed but sometimes, depending on the person, everything I do gets noticed. I do have issues with authority (being told what to do) and some people just see it more, I think. When I was a kid, everything I did got noticed by my parents while my brother just did whatever he wanted. I guess he used me as a distraction!
I don’t often get into issues with friends on equal footing, though.
Saturn is sextile Venus and Mercury and square my Aquarius rising.
Interesting pondering.
I have a YOD with a not-well-placed sign-wise Saturn (Aries) as the apex.
There are very few ‘authorities’ in my life governing the day-to-day aspects. Bosses and management are these floating enigmas somewhere far away. They change constantly. (Probably more of an effect of having Pisces MC.)
People tend not to notice me and I can get away with alot. Thing is, when they finally DO notice, I receive draconian punishment, or what they think or hope is severe, even though really it isn’t…
Example: I had no disciplinary record and was written up by a nasty co-worker and FIRED. However life became wonderful after I was fired with decisions going my way as far as unemployment and training opportunities and THEN was offered that job back.
It’s as if authorities never know what the freak they’re doing. And they underestimate me, which I like. he he.
I think this is interesting because I’d read long ago that a yod indicates action or activity that switches from square-feeling to trine-feeling and back and forth, it’s hard to get a grasp of because it’s unpredictable. Sometimes easygoing sometimes harsh.
I don’t think the consequences are worse than my actions – I like to believe in karma and a fair one at that. But I have Saturn conjunct Venus in Scorpio so maybe I seduce others to escape punishment. Do I?
Often good at understanding and operating within structures and systems of various organisations/authorities. I’d rather be a team player than the boss where final decisions rest. Capable of much hard work with integrity as my Saturn is in the 10th house – however up until my Saturn return – I found too much responsibility a burden. Yet I haven’t suffered from heavy scrutiny or punishment as my sag Sun is sextile that Saturn. I can apologise for mistakes, rectify the problem and live with the consequences. Yet it is worth saying that once I understand how a system works I can find and work any loopholes that can benefit me and/or the work at hand.
I have saturn opposite my sun and mercury… I notice it when transits reinforce it, because then it becomes obvious. Off the transits the consequences are not that bad nowadays. And I do get away with alot, from police and teachers.. etc.
I do notice it around me, the lucky and the unlucky, and it makes total sense that this is the persons energy atracting the stuff she expects. What you fear, you create. This is sort of obvious and hard to explain at the same time to someone that never watched it happen: the vicious cicle that it tends to be.
maybe because my saturn is in opposition and not square, and it’s in the 7th (projected on others), the saturnine incidents that afflict me are very unexpected. Maybe with saturn squares people feed the fear more. since it’s inside them and they live with it.
i agree with Viv, you do create what you fear. And over time, your fears change as you overcome them (or stop creating them). i’ve got libra saturn opp. sun/venus/mars in aries, square moon in cappy. my saturn rarely lets me get away with anything! i’ve learned there are two ways to deal with this: either oppose/challenge authority or ally yourself with it. sometimes it’s best to doublecheck everything, take no chances and be extra prepared and other times it’s just overkill and no one cares anyway. i guess, the best way to work with this is to do whatever the situation calls for ;o) and if that doesn’t work, have a lie ready :o)
I have saturn in cancer trining jupiter in pisces.. and saturn squaring my mars and sun with leo ruling my 10th. Female authority figures really get along with me but the men don’t. If I’m being interviewed by a man I don’t get hired, but often do if it’s a woman. I had a male boss judge my actions – which were limited by my emotional nature. For a female boss this doesn’t seem to be a problem, maybe she only sees my ability to act and my ability to be compassionate rather than one limiting the other.. or I just act differently.. Since I’m libra, with a woman I might naturally be more active and male.
I’ve learned to improve my male side in the hopes that I can change this when in the company of men. And with leo on my 10th I’ve been learning how to play the career game more like the men and have seen some progress.. although it seems it’s still mostly the women that hire me.. 😛
I’ve noticed this a lot: both my fiance and I skate through with little or no consequences from our infractions, but his best friend gets ~slammed~ whenever he doesn’t tow the line. It’s unreal!
I’ve got Saturn in Virgo conjunct Sun and Merc in Leo.
When it comes to authority, most of my life I’ve been a bit rebellious and willing to stand up to authority, but I have had little trouble as I always try to be respectful about it, and always take responsibility. I rarely make excuses – I might explain what my thinking was, why I did something, but I almost never say “this wasn’t my fault”. The upshot of that is that when authority does come knocking, they usually cut me some slack, or at least seem to respect my position. While I’ve been “punished” for infractions, it’s usually not very severe as I don’t put up a fuss, I just take it – I knew there was a risk and I was willing to take it.
Saturn on Aries descendent coupled with Mars in the 7th. I just own it. Whatever it is.
HOWEVER, when it comes to “doing things right” and getting punished, I am often in turmoil. I have a lot of virgo pressure. A lot. 11th house moon, 12th house pluto (opp sun) and Uranus. My experience with that is that I try so so so hard to do *everything* right, by the book, as best I can, and somehow there is too often someone who pounces on that 1% that I missed and just nails me for it – the other 99% doesn’t count, it’s the 1% failure that matters.
This is usually coming from some kind of “mom” authority/figure (heh heh…indeed)
As an example, the last (and strangely, only) time I got pulled over for speeding (I was well over 90 in a 65), the officer came to my car, I had my license and registration ready – simply handed it to him without a word but I wasn’t pissy either. He came back in a few minutes saying “hey, I lowered the fine for you – have a great weekend!” I wished him the same and that was that. The fine was only $120 and by rights, it should have been several hundred, not to mention I could have been called into court over it.
I have ZERO argument there 😉
9th house Virgo Saturn conjunct NN, trine Sun/7th and Moon/11th, square Mars/6th. I have found that when I’m out of line the consequences are what one would expect. However, I usually get several chances to make the mistake, and it’s usually around the time I learn “I shouldn’t do this” but I do it AGAIN anyway, that’s when the universe drops the hammer down.
Midheaven pluto square 1st house saturn. I gotta run clean, but that doesn’t keep me from being blamed for stuff I have not done or have not intended. Oh well, it keeps me on my toes. Who am I to question the order of the universe? Some get away with it, some don’t. I take solace in the increasing awareness that there are larger forces at work. And I’ve lived long enough and been falsely accused enough, that I’m startin to smell them when they’re comin. Sometimes I play it out, sometimes not.
Saturn is very strong in my chart – it’s in my 1st house, and makes aspects to most of my other placements.
With that, and as a Cap, I feel compelled to toe the line, because I feel consequences will be severe. However, on those rare occasions I do mess up, consequences are usually pretty fair. I’ve even gotten away with a few things…externally anyway. I’ll tear myself up over things I think I’ve done wrong even if no one else cares.
9th house aries saturn/eris, square merc/pallas in cancer in the 12th, trine jupiter/asc/leo.
i do not acknowledge authority. though i acknowledge superior skill. i own my errors. i can get away with just about anything. i can’t lie to save my life. (ok. little white lies sometimes.) the insta-karma i get is usually self-imposed, usually having to do with how i treat myself – then there are repercussions. as in if i act like an ass when i know better, i’ll slip and fall on my ass. seriously.
i always attributed getting away with everything to charm. and i think i scare people. like bosses and such. they don’t want to piss me off (their perception) so they tread softly. if i do screw up, i admit it before they even discover it… not much they can say at that point. we then work out a fix.
is it fair? i always figured others could take my approach to life if they chose. i guess astrology is showing me that may not always be the case. not much i can do about that.
Yes! This is my life! I was just thinking today how no good deed goes unpunished or, you know, making split second decisions I regret because they are selfish or whatever and how it always comes back at me. Always. I make a casual but unintentionally hurtful remark to someone accidentally, the net morning There is an inch of black ice all over the road. Or bigger things like I make a mistake at work and suddenly, I’m sitting down in my bosses office him asking me if I “know how serious my actions should be taken”. I’m learning every day that for everything that is given something must be taken. I think it is fair though, we all get exactly what we can handle.
I don’t have too many aspects to Saturn, however, Jupiter does aspect in a wide square. Generally, I have a lot of Jupiter on my chart, so I think I just get lucky.
My circumstances have been fortunate overall. Saturn’s presence in my chart seems to be more about internal consequences than external, like a morality play. Goethe had Saturn in Scorpio and he wrote Faust, about a man who makes a deal with the devil. Such themes play out in my life. If I know I did wrong, I feel like I’m boiling alive, in my own personal hell. But there are times where I do wrong, and justify it, and don’t suffer immediate consequences.
It is unfair. I also think being a fortunate person has its own responsibility, its own karma. You can choose to squander it, or choose to pay it forward.
If I so much as contemplate stepping out of line I WILL pay & disproportionately so.
Saturn, Saturn, Saturn.
Fortunately, I picked up on this trend at a very early age, so I’m not even tempted. Had I fought & rebelled, I dread to think where I’d be now.
It’s nice to hear that someone believes this to be unfair as much as I do!
I got caught for speeding..twice in a month by the same cop..who knew me as I’d done his chart and helped him through a tough time. That felt lucky and since taught me to watch the speedo….mostly.
Also got a parking fine taped to my car in a car park, with a misplaced digit = not traceable, and as I’d been doing someone a favour at the time, that seemed fair to me.
Chart like June’s ..i.e a Moon/Jupiter trine Pluto trine MC, with Libra Saturn sextile MC. Mostly I get off lighter, and am thankful.. always pay good fortune forward.
I have beautiful trines to my saturn and I still get TOASTED if I shirk. I’m talking ‘burnt and crispy, lit up for X-mas’ toasted. Maybe it’s my terribly aspected Pluto and the fact Saturn rules my 8th House and Saturn sits in my 2nd House. One more slip up by me and I am certain I will end up homeless or some ^&%#$.
Example of this: The moment I let my renter’s insurance slip…bed bugs descend and eat all my possessions. The moment I let my car insurance slip…..my car gets totaled by my spouse. It happens like clockwork and is very swift. The one time I go an extra month without changing my oil, somehow my engine grinds to a halt or blows up. I steal a candy bar as a kid, I damn near go to jail for a year. All of these are actual life examples. I can’t ever ever ever let myself slip…all bases must be covered or I pay dearly.
Come to think of it, I’ve been very lucky when things do happen. However, these are things that happen by accident. Saturn Aquarius 12th conj Venus ASC.
I backed up into a light post and totally knocked it over when picking up my friend from work. The boss came out and I dropped to my knees and pleaded melodramatically for him not to get me in trouble – I can’t even remember what I said. He just said not to worry about it, and told my friend he thought I was cute. Whew.
However, as a rule, I never knowingly do something I know is wrong. I know Karma will get me somewhen, somehow, so I don’t mess with it.
My 11H Sagittarius Saturn squares my 7H Virgo Venus. I definitely have a rocky time in personal relationships. However, my natal Saturn trines my 7H Leo Uranus/(#3811)asteroid Karma. I quickly attract partners (decent online dating success – Uranus), learn my relationship lessons (Karma), then move on (Saturn).