I don’t know how common it is to date anymore. But I came across a situation where a woman was on a date with a man, kissed him, held his hand and then apparently pulled away. I mentioned this to my husband…
“Women do this. I’ve done it. You’re on a date with someone and you know you don’t want to see the man again, but you’ve got to get out of the situation. So you may kiss him. Whatever you have to do to get off the date safely.”
“You can usually tell when a woman doesn’t like you. She’ll give off some kind of clues.”
“I know. But there are times a woman finds herself on a date; she really wants to get off the date but she can’t just say, hey dude! I don’t like you. Because if she does, it might get her punched and raped, right there on the spot. You know. I just bought your dinner, bitch. A woman will know that a man may hurt her so if she has to kiss him to get out of there safely, she will.”
“I’ve warned women about men like that. Couple of times.”
“What do you mean?”
“The guy ain’t acting right. He says things. If I know the woman that’s going to go out with him, I’ll tell her. You be careful with so and so. I haven’t done it a lot, but I’ve done it a couple of times.”
“If I said that to someone, they’d probably go out with him twice as hard,” I said. “Ooh danger, or they think they can handle themselves or want to see firsthand. Anyway, the point is, a woman can’t necessarily reject a man directly…without risking being hurt and hurt badly, for that matter. And the man may not be dangerous at all, but it’s still better not to take a chance…”
Venus in Scorpio topics, eh?
interesting…it does bring back a memory. I went on date with a man, I wasn’t 100 % sure about him at the end of dinner, he accompanied to my apartment, we started kissing etc but then I could not have sex with him, I froze..I apologised and told him it just didn’t feel right. he left very annoyed..and for the next 3 days sent me hate texts and called me and told me I had seduced him and then backed out, that I was a slut…..he was a socorpio
Hmmm. Wow. I’d rather someone never start something they can’t finish but at the same time I can clearly see your rationale – to get out of a potentially dangerous situation. At the same time, I think most women would probably do this less out of fear and more because they don’t want to appear mean and heartless. Be nice to the semi-creepy guy, let him down easy or create a safe distance – then run!! I appreciate hearing the feminine point of view because women’s motivations are not always clear to a man. A guy has to think through a lot of complex signals from a woman. Really, shoe on the other foot, what’s he to make of this behavior?
I’m sure that happens…a woman does not want to appear heartless. And if you’re a decent man, this is really, really bad. Like my husband said the woman should not kiss the man. However, a man can’t understand the vulnerability a woman feels in this situation *at times*. And I can tell you right now, I’ve done it, just to be on the safe side.
I have been punched, full on, by a man…had my guts stomped out more times than I can count. So definitely, I am not in denial around how a man, especially a large man, might hurt me. So hell no. I’m not taking a chance this guy snaps and knocks the hell out of me.
See, the fear comes because I’d have been already sending signals of disinterest…I’m tired, want to go home, etc. The guy is ignoring this, or insensitive or whatever. A woman begins to get nervous and once she’s nervous, she’s going to go with evasive type moves in many cases.
I do admit, it can be done unnecessarily, though.
I’m so sorry! What kind of man would do that? Isn’t that the thing. You telegraph your disinterest but he freight trains along, unable or unwilling to see the signs. A lot of guys, self included, fail to pick up on signals. I can figure things out after the fact but it takes me awhile.
Unwilling to see the signs, or seeing them perfectly and doesn’t care because he has other intentions.
Add – that is what my husband was talking about. He’s been around men who ask a woman out but intend to take what they one, regardless. Uh…planned date rape, basically.
It’s not exactly rare.
Well, I’d be wrong to come to the defense of dirt bags like that. My bad. I agree also that men do not understand the vulnerability a woman feels.
I think for men it isn’t so much whether or not they’re rejected but “how” they’re rejected. Showing disinterest is sometimes just shyness for a woman. What some women call “hard to get” (expecting a chase) is stalking for another woman. I knew a woman who said she fantasizes about being stalked. I guess it makes her feel special. Men will actually become more aggressive to make up for what they think is you wanting them to take control. It’s a mixed signal thing. You don’t know what has worked on other women, ya know? This wouldn’t be the situation if there weren’t women out there who really are like that. WAY too much is left unsaid. He can’t read your mind or know which kind of woman you are. I think the majority of men would rather you gently let them down than to assume he can read your mind. The best way to remove yourself from the situation is to tell the truth but with a little humanity in it. Sometimes you can tell someone thinks they’re better than you by the way they dismiss you. Like you’re not even worth an explanation. Or they treat you like an animal and try to distance themselves…unprovoked with passive aggressive insults. If the chemistry isn’t happening than it’s a fact of life. There’s no reason why you can’t just say what you mean. Say it isn’t working for you and you’re sorry. It’s when you lead a man on that I think it’s most dangerous…mainly because it’s mean. That’s why the anger comes out…he’s made into the fool who “fell for the trap,” ya know? Like he’s that guy in the funny story you tell your friends. He’s your hoax. Put yourself in his shoes. How would you like it if a man kissed you then suddenly pulled out and avoided you…than told all his friends what a jerk you were for thinking there was something between you. Wouldn’t you think something was wrong with you or that it was some kind of prank? Wouldn’t it be nicer if they were honest with you? Said “hey, I’m just not feeling the chemistry” and asked if it was okay to leave? Don’t have to give someone what they want to show a little respect for their feelings on your way out…
Eeewww! This is horrifying.
Women please, do not let a man pick you up, meet him using your own transportation. Do not tell him where you live. Do not get tipsy. Do not let him pay, pay for your own dinner!
Its been a long time since I dated but I remember experiences like this. You take a chance to go out with a man you don’t know very well and as the even progresses, perhaps over dinner, you realize you don’t want to know him any better. You try to put out the friendship vibe without being cold. You just try to pull back and you see he is having none of it. It happened to me when I lived in NYC and I remember deciding first not to order dessert and coffee, second to lay a twenty on the table to cover my cost and insist he take it. He became very quiet. I then also decided not to get in his car but to take a cab home. When I got upstairs to my apartment my doorman called up and said the man was downstairs. I came downstairs and asked the man what I could do for him and he told me just wanted to tell me to fuck off and never get in touch with him. I thought I had made that clearly how the future would go but I guess he just needed to reject me. He sent me a birthday card for three years and it was so creepy.
He was in a business that corresponded to the company I worked with and I ran into him a few times, we never spoke but he asked one of my coworkers out and I told her the story, she didn’t go.
wow what part of the world do these women live in?? most guys would just say ciao
My friend recently got attacked on a date. He grabbed her around her neck and slashed her tire. This shit happens.
Wow. I had not really thought of this in the way described by you, Elsa, in this post but I realise I have done it intuitively all the time. I have never kissed a man I didn’t want to kiss yet I have been on dates where I knew I had to reject the man for various reasons, and either I did it as civil as possible in public or I did it after the date.
When I rejected them as respectfuly as I could (rejecting someone is not easy so I had a formula-sentence I used), I would say goodbye somewhere far enough from home yet near people (safely.)
I am scorpio rising, a Pluto trine moon type of gal, with moon and Mars in the eight house. So I know this dark stuff (violence, rape) happens and I keep myself safe.
I have a quite attractive appearance/look and when I was younger (I am forty yet looking like I am in my early thirties – have a strong Mercury and Gemini planets, I think that helps), I got a lot of male attention and some was very very nasty if I didn’t accept the man’s advances and/or sexual innuendos.
For example, a man would try to chat me up and if I talked a bit to be nice yet showed little interest in his suggestions, hewould say something harmful, attacking me (e.g. Saying things like ‘Your hair looks like pubic hair’ – I have very curly hair – or saying whatever nasty.)
I finally understood with time that these men approached me seeing me as an object, a trophy to conquer/bed to get a stroke to their egos. When I showed disinterest, they felt their narcissistic wound quite strongly and wanted to attack me (verbally – although at times men have been physically menacing in the past.)
I have been lucky due to my not trusting easily (plutonic energy), and also due to being plain lucky. Explanation-> on one occasion, when aged 28, I was socialising with a group of people (celebrating New Years eve) and a young man from the group helped me when a man (in the group) tried to kiss me against my will and had become forceful (I was being talkative and friendly with him yet rebuffed his subtle comments – he read the signs wrongly because he was a man who didn’t really like women!) I soon learned he took drugs and was a bit high that night, so he couldn’t have read my signs clearly any way.
I was greatly offended and scared by this man’s behaviour and severed ties with him and the rest of the group (except the young man who helped me) after this because the group didn’t find his behaviour weird, they just thought he was high that night. I saw him as a potential rapist (had he and I been alone, who knows! And I don’t think that group would have believed me!), and he tried to apologise via email and his friend asked me to forgive him, yet I said briefly that people who try to force themselves on others, drugs involved or not, are not my type of company.
Nowadays when I encounter such type of men, I kind of recognise them quickly (I trust my gut reaction, I notice things) , and give them an ego stroke (e.g. Talk to them a bit, give them a little compliment and then put them on a pedestal somehow and then leave it at that), and then I leave the scene as subtly as possible. I know, not genuine behaviour from my part yet it is a survival thing.
Once a man on the first date who was obnoxious (made the mistake to go for dinner when, for me, a good plan for a first date is to go for a coffee somewhere public and assess if the man seems to respect women, be trusting of women – I know, the opposite of my plutonic nature, lol – , and if he is gentle and respectful of my dating pace. He offered to drive me home which I would never do on the first dates (did that when young once or twice and nothing happened yet with age I am wiser) so I politely declined saying I would feel uncomfortable that soon. He took offence and also felt hurt, and spent the rest of the evening judging me for this approach, and making some snarky remarks and criticising my not wanting a ride.
A good man would feel rejected a bit and maybe would have felt a bit offended yet he would also think of the woman’s reasons and think, ‘ah, I get it! She is keeping safe’ and would understand that women can feel vulnerable with strange/new men.
When I was dating in my mid thirties (I have got a nice boyfriend for almost the years now, so I don’t date anymore), after learning from experience, I would allow the man more access to my life and home within time, not right away.
Good men (and most of men are good people) will respect the feminine energy and go at a woman’s pace. They will have sisters, mothers, girlfriends, and female cousins, and will have empathy for the risks women can have in life and be aware of some men’s fear or envy of women who make women vulnerable in their company. A man who doesn’t like women goes at his own pace in relationships with women, regardless of the signals women show, or regardless of a woman’s need to feel safe before she opens up more/is more receptive to a man.
By the way, the transits when the man in the group was forceful with me were: transiting Pluto opposite natal Mars (in the eight) and transiting Mars square my natal Pluto (in the eleventh – groups.) My natal Mars and Pluto are well aspected yet I do have a sun square mars – some anger/impatience issues in me in life and, when younger, around men/father which I worked on in the past, and some other risks – plus all my plutonic/8th house stuff.
I pay close attention to transits between natal and transiting Pluto and Mars, just to be safe. So I am mindful of anger/aggression those times (mine or someone elses), and of safety in areas in town when working in the community.
I know I talked a lot here. I am finding this cathartic (to share my emotions and experiences, Gemini moon) yet I also want to help others with some of my learning curves.
Elsa (please correct me if I am wrong, Elsa) once talked about avoiding men who don’t like women. I would agree with that! If one pays attention, one can notice this.
All the best
Cris
“Elsa (please correct me if I am wrong, Elsa) once talked about avoiding men who don’t like women. I would agree with that! If one pays attention, one can notice this.”
Yes, that was me. I warned my daughter about that…stay far, far, FAR away from men who don’t like women…since you are one! 🙂
Great advice – it was a men with moon/venus aspects post, I think. Thanks for that as it helped me a bit years ago!
My boyfriend doesn’t have moon venus aspects yet he has a taurus moon. That is a Venusian moon, and it shows!
I guess I’m luck to be able to say that I was never really in that kind of a situation when dating.
Overall, this makes me feel that this is a direct result of impatience.
People used to court. There was a true period of getting to know someone. It is my understanding that the process was respected (usually) by both parties. Maybe that period took too long, had too many restrictions, but having to worry about pressure to be in close physical contact when you haven’t really gotten a sense of being comfortable with the other person is not the solution.
Just got divorced after 19 years. I need to date me awhile but I find the changes in technology and courtship daunting.