To a client:
“At the base of it, is probably a fear of being rejected / fear of not being worthy. Like you, I have Venus in Leo and I would not put up with being anything less than Queen, ever. You do. You will. So if you get a good man, you think you can’t keep him. I think, he better work to keep me. If you get a lousy man, you think this might be sustainable.
Starvation diet of love is your comfort zone. To fix this, you’d have to address the core issue…”
Who can relate?
ME! I have Venus sq Saturn. It took a long time to break the starvation habits. My Venus and Saturn also aspect Neptune so I focused on that and used faith (in myself) to help me through. Not like all the issues with this placement have left me though – still takes effort.
I feel for your client.
I definitely agree with the starvation thing.
Great Post!
I can relate. Working so hard to change this. Venus conjunct saturn.
I have Venus trine saturn. I’m guilty of this too. Thanks for the post.
Elsa, would saturn in the 2nd house play like this as well?
With Saturn in 2nd, you really have to earn your self esteem.
Venus sextile Saturn here, but my Sun is exactly square my Saturn. I have had this problem most of my life but am now in a position to actively rectify the situation, which I am actively working on. Feels good actually, because the first step is to begin to love and accept yourself, as you are. That way you don’t have to blame others when things are not peachy keen. 🙂
Hmmm, just read Burned Bridge’s answer from Elsa. My Saturn is 1 degree conjunct the DSC in the 6th house. Would that mean working on boundaries concerning service given and service received maybe?
The closest aspect in my chart is my Venus in Taurus square Saturn, and oppose Neptune. On the angles too! Definitely a feeling of having to ‘earn’ love, of being unworthy or just not good enough. Abandonment issues from when I was a child, which is commonly the case with this aspect. I used to pick men who were really stuck in ego, and who probably were incapable of a real intimate relationship. As I’ve gotten older I’ve figured it out…but its still a battle. I too find a spiritual approach is the only way through.
I don’t have a Venus Saturn aspect, but I do have Venus in the 5th house in Scorpio. It seems like being truly intimate, outside of sex, has been problematic. I’ve had one ‘relationship’ where after it ended, we were actually on decent terms. I was never ‘vulnerable’ or gave her a chance to really see my caring nature fully, or relinquish any amount of control. It was the best one yet, but left me feeling guilty and wanting something more than the physical. So everyone after, I’ve made a concerted effort to open up and treat partners as equals rather than being utterly dominant. This hasn’t worked yet, seems to have created animosity. I’ve actually seen the change in communication occur when I make myself ‘available.’ Flings aren’t really that interesting to me. But it seems as though when I show interest, especially emotionally, partners back out. I’m aware there are things I do that cause this as well. I push really hard sometimes, subtly and not subtly. Changes in communication and attitude bring out the worst in me. Consistency is a big thing. Once I decide to do something I do it. Anyone else with Venus in Scorpio 5th have intimacy concerns?
More about me: Saturn also in 5th, in sag. Merc conj Pluto in 5th, square mars 7th in Aquarius. My 7th house is cap. Cancer rising, Libra sun. Venus semi square Neptune, some trines including Jupiter, and some minor aspects to mars and chiron. I’m a musician. Like the website a lot.
Venus in Virgo – love through service – squares Neptune in the 12th. I don’t starve myself, but I routinely tolerate being treated as “less than a queen” in my relationships. It’s not awesome. But, at the same time, it seems I suffer from chronic dissatisfaction in healthy relationships. I suppose this is the very idea behind Venus/Neptune – the reality v. the fantasy.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, as well as why I’ve been so drawn and so satisfied in the relationships I’ve had with Scorpio stelliums (even if they haven’t ended well). I’ve comerealtor realization that this is – for me – sort of a sado-masochistic tendency.
I genuinely like and enjoy being of service in my love relationships (Venus in Virgo), but I don’t want to call the shots. I don’t want all the power. Ideally, I’d like a deep emotional relationship (8th house Sun, Mercury, Venus), total security…but, with the man being the dominant one. The man being the man. The Scorpio stelliums I have known have always taken this role…unfortunately, their disappearing acts always left me feeling alone and abandoned. So many power games. I don’t need to play games…they can have the power.
*Comerealtor = come to the
Stupid auto-correct
I see what you mean, the man being the man, but maybe that’s just something I don’t get. The phrase irks me. I am still a man if I let a woman be her own person, let her make her own choices, and have responsibility like an adult. I actually find it disrespectful to not give someone the chance to have responsibility, to think for someone else. Even more to treat someone as less (submissive) to you. Yes, a man is a provider and a protector, but ultimately allowing someone else to make decisions about your life is a transfer of accountability, which easily results in blame, in my opinion and experience. (I now realize I’ve done this by trying not to do it to others). It bugs me that a man is supposed to dominate his way through life, consuming a bunch of objects, seemingly from others. I enjoy giving and making my own, preferably collaborating with others rather than outright taking.
This isn’t a disagreement pointed at you, more a topic that I’ve been trying to make sense of for years now, particularly since 2009.
Yea, I get what you’re saying. I meant this more specifically as a quirk of my own. It’s something I seem to need, and like. I also meant it in terms of the relationship itself, not in terms of my choices in life. I wouldn’t want a man to tell me what to do with my life, or how to go about my each and every day. And I certainly would never want to tell him such things, either.
I mean, for me, watching a partner make his own choices, acting as the architect of his own life, is what makes a relationship so fulfilling. Learning from your partner, watching them thrive in a field of work, or in the creation of a life vastly different from my own…it’s enlightening and it helps me grow. It opens my mind. I don’t even really gel with the idea that a man is, or should be, a provider. I do like the man to take the lead in the relationship, though. Again, I say this specifically with regards to me. I think a good relationship, a good partner, is one who inspires you and lifts you up, not breaks you down to maintain power.
I do think it’s great that you are trying to open up and see your partners as equals and to treat them as such. I spent about 7 months in a relationship like the one you described in the first part of your post. It was really heartbreaking. I eventually had no choice but to leave all together, and it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to go through, with regards to a relationship. I would’ve given anything to be on the receiving end of the kind of treatment you are now attempting within your partnerships.
The one good thing that did come from it though, was that I no longer tolerate bullshit. I thoroughly enjoy very distinct gender roles in my romantic relationships, but I won’t tolerate disrespect. Perhaps that sounds contrary and, yes, it is a very fine line, but that’s my ideal (Venus/Neptune). Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don’t. But, in a perfect world…that’s it.
Personally, I think that if you continue to treat your partners as equals, you will eventually find someone who is worthy of such treatment. And frankly, if you can see the communication change – right off the bat – with someone whom you are merely treating with respect, as an equal, it’s probably a good sign to move along. A promising and decent partner will appreciate this and will return the kindness, not take advantage of it. (just my opinion).
Thanks Elsa. @dolce: I feel for you too. (0:
Leo Venus opposite Saturn. Yep, caught in this starvation thing. Shocking what Elsa said, it’s my comfort zone…
Addressing this, but how? Working hard against it? You can try and change the stuff in this play radically and end up starving by projecting…
I think I’ll go for a walk, breathing in, breathing out, and fantasize on how to expand my comfort zone. Expanding. Sounds a bit better than working against it…
@ Steve..I don’t know if this will be of any enlightenment to you, but I left my husband of 23 years 2 years ago, because his mars in aquarius kept me at such an arm’s length, I was literally dying on the vine as it were, due to his emotional and physical detachment. I don’t know why, but ‘fixed air’ is really hard for me to understand and deal with, in that it can shut you out almost more than the scorpio can. He too had venus in scorpio and also his moon in scorpio. Those 3, his scorp moon and venus, plus the aquarius mars were too much for this Libra sun/Pisces moon. I bring this up because I think your biggest ‘obstacle’ to intimacy just might be your mars in aquarius. How to deal with this though. I don’t know.
Aries Venus Saturn conjunct here, and boy does the starvation thing resonate. Yet I feel like asking for any more is risky. I definitely relate to feeling more comfortable with guys with intimacy problems than someone who’s more available. In my maturity, however, I tend to see this as my own issue of balancing intimacy and independence, painful as it is to admit it. In a lot of ways, I just don’t want to lose myself in another person. I’m currently with a Scorpio Venus inconjunct Saturn, Aqua Mars guy who tacks back and forth between wanting to merge and being self-protective and independent. He seems to have a lot of similar issues.
I think the core to the problem is a self esteem thing. Are you keeping people at arm’s length out of a concern for preserving and protecting what you value in yourself, or from a sense of having little of value to give? This is tricky with Saturn.
Sometimes I think Saturn heavy people are just here in the world to experience solitude. It seems like such a core expression of the energy. So says my Cappy Moon.
One more thing: maybe that’s why I’m not bothered by my guy’s Aqua Mars, which Norah mentions as a problem for Steve in the comments. Both Saturn and Uranus types are going for interpersonal distance, in my opinion. If anything, Aquas push for independence only so far, since they are fundamentally fixed. Ultimately they want to know their intimates will always be there for them when they return. They are consistent in that manner.
@norah, sorry to hear about the split. That’s actually the opposite I’ve experienced though. The partners I’m detached with keep coming back, like the first I brought up. The ones I show genuine interest in leave hard, seemingly having developed lots of distaste for me in the process. I really don’t identify with the detached mars. I’m very hands on. I value intimacy. Showing that has created more interpersonal issues than showing detachment, which is frustrating. Not sure if its just an age thing as it seems like the ‘expected’ thing to do is pine for those who show little interest, like its a competition. I’m not really interested in competing for ‘power’ with partners.
Hogging this thread. Thanks for the reply StarF, very informative
No worries. Astrologically, I would look to that Aquarian mars of yours. I have an Aquarian moon, and though the banter has been …well, highly entertaining and attractive, many of the Scorpios I’ve dealt with have had an Aquarian mars…and honestly, their need for freedom and revolt against standard conformity within relationships has been a major problem. Especially since I’ve been more than willing to accommodate such a need. You can be free, and independent, and still have someone love you and stand by you, you know?
I have a Venus Leo in the 10th house and I soooo do this (smh). It makes you feel safe at first, but worse in the end…
Thank you, Elsa 🙂
And to StarF… your observation about the Aqua moon and Scorp Mars — weird. I have that myself and while I tell myself I’ve mellowed with time, I think what’s more likely is I’ve disowned those qualities and have attracted someone with them instead. Is that even possible — or just some psychological wackiness??? Lol
Im sitting here now feeling pretty upset since.. i sendt a text message To my boyfriend last night and well he did not reply, i called him for a moment ago but it doesnt help on my feelings that i had to call him to check if he had gotten the message. also makes me wonder if im overly worried.
What leads to then is the question an i really doomed to have these fears why whole life. fear of not being loved, fear of my friends not liking me, fear of people in general not liking me. and also worried if ive said or done something wrong to an extreme degree. i would say my relationship with my boyfriend have been pretty good, but i really start worrying of the relationship going bad whenever he leaves. right now hes in another town having a summer job where hes working alot and dont get to talk much to him, so well my fears is escalating. at the same time i know my fear of it going bad might just be what that makes it go bad so i try to repress it.
My venus is aspecting a whole lots of planets :S
venus semi square sun
venus semi sextile moon
venus square jupiter
venus square uranus
venus square neptune
venus square chiron
venus sesquiquadrate lilith
venus opposite ascendant
venus square mc
basically all the aspects i got to venus is only bad aspects :S
hihi! and thx 🙂
is really hard aspects to venus doomed in love ? :S i atleast very much feel intensely worried about all that concerns it at the same time as well its defientively waht i value as the most important in life, so if my bad aspects lead to “caring so much about love” do i in that way not mind it 😛 cause i could definetively not live without it
i could also add some of my birth chart if it makes more sense:
sun taurus 8th house
moon scorpio 2th house
mercury taurus 8th house
venus aries 7th house
mars pisces 6th house
ascendant 28 degree virgo
jupiter cancer 10th house
saturn capricorn 4th house
uranus capricorn 4th house
neptune capricorn 4th house
pluto scorpio 2th house
true node aquarius 5th house
chiron cancer 10th house
i really dont mean to spam this site 😛
i just got to admit I’m overly curious about how to deal with having so many squares to your natal venus and what to make out of it. would have been overly happy if someone would like to reply to that 🙂 also my english is not the best but hope poeple get me right 😛
I have Venus conjunct Saturn in Capricorn 10th house with the north node in between them to boot! I must say that this is by far my deepest source of pain. I’ve had to learn how to transform loneliness and solitude into peace and quiet, but the feeling of being unable to connect is so powerfully frustrating. My Capricorn Sun (touching Saturn) and Pisces ascendant add to my hypersensitive nature. I’ve never been in a relationship and always have this blaze attitude when it comes to forming them, as though I’m and old man and have already been there and done that – though really it’s a guise for some deep seated feeling of mourning for the romantic life I seem to think I’ll never have. I spend most of my time alone. It is difficult, and it used to sting badly, but I’ve learned to be in constant meditation and to provide myself unconditional affirmation – particularly on a creative level. There is much internalized pain and separation that needs to be worked with, but in a strange way, it has provided me strength and independence. Venus does not like Saturn, but he makes her all the wiser. Venus learns not just to love, but how to love properly, and it begins with oneself.