Violence, Manipulation and Denial In Relationship

The collective tends to defend itself against reality. Here’s an example of what I mean. People pretend that violent criminals are not aware of what they are doing – Crimes Of Passion Don’t Exist.

I think what is true at the end of the continuum is generally true in milder form. This is one of the reasons I’m so fascinated with the outer rim of everything. What you learn “out there” can be applied closer in.

As for a common day example, how many times have I had friends ask in regards to someone they are dating – “Does he know what he’s doing?” The answer invariably is, yes.

Yes, he knows he is not calling you.
Yes he knows he is not supposed to sleep with your friend.
Yes, he knows how you feel about blah, blah, blah. You’ve only told him one hundred and fifty times!

People pretend otherwise, because they don’t want it to be the way it really is. They come up with scenarios and make up excuses  to explain their boyfriend’s behavior.

At best, the offending person is oblivious to the stories you tell yourself. Because if  they’re not, they’re exploiting your tendency delude yourself.  They’re using it to manipulate you which drops the whole thing down to a level so uncomfortable many won’t venture there at all.

Note – I wrote this is 2007. It’s even more true today.

Do you pretend people are unaware they are treating your poorly? Where is Neptune in your chart?

82 thoughts on “Violence, Manipulation and Denial In Relationship”

  1. I couldn’t face the truth until the last year. It may be neptune on my angles or pluto crossing my neptune ruled 5th but the veils are lifting. I still have a problem sorting out who can be trusted and how much. I used to believe that there was good in everyone, now I believe our interpretaion of “good” is discordant.

    When my last ex hurt me I don’t think he cared at all that I was hurting because he admittedly cannot feel empathy and feels disgust when other people are crying. He uses other peoples emotions to manipulate them however he pleases. — I told myself every excuse in the book to avoid seeing this truth. Actually, no. I told myself he was highly regarded and generally seemed sympathetic and quite helpful, especially to crying needy girls. Except me, but I thought he just had higher standards for me.

    Anyway, I never thought he would hurt me because he was such a wuss and always crying about something. Now I see that he doesn’t feel sympathy or empathy because he cannot care about anyone outside of him. When he sees someone hurt by his actions, he feels hurt because they don’t understand him well enough. LOL he feels lonely or isolated because someone isn’t giving him whatever reaction he wants.

    I think this is permanent for him. All that has ever mattered to him was how he was seen. I think violent offenders and manipulators are completely aware of their actions. They see it as a source of power and pride that affirms their individual worth.

    It hurts to be on the recieving end but someone like that isn’t eqquipped to care.

    I have a natal neptune GCC and venus neptune opposition. Transiting neptune is on my 7th H cusp now and I really hope that these lessons don’t fade away. I met my lessons while Uranus visited my 7th but I didn’t really learn until Uranus was deep in my 8th.

  2. Neptune/5th… definitely a fog of illusion around romance. But my Neptune is square Saturn/8th, and the collision with reality is never long in coming… in some weird way, I feel Saturn to be a helper in this regard… or at least have learned to see it that way over time.

  3. I was born into a family with ready-made narcissists (and possibly sociopaths) which included having a narcissistic mother who was capable of doing good things, but who repeatedly wounded me AND allowed others to do the same to me as a child, adolescent, and even into my adulthood. As a result, in my adult life, I have attracted and have been overly reactive to people who lack empathy. This means that I have continued to be wounded as an adult. There are people in this world, plenty of people who are lacking in empathy. People who have Narcissistic, Borderline, Antisocial (aka Sociopaths)do not experience commpassion and empathy, and truly do not care about hurting anyone. Interestingly, the traits of these personalities exist on a continuum, so they are not always easy to detect. Initially, they can appear interesting, charming, nice, and sweet. However, that is the idealization phase which does not last for long, and usually they are nice when they want something. It is important to take off the rose-tinted glasses and see things for what they are, people who lack empathy and compassion are out there. Better to keep them out of your inner circle.

  4. Yes.. I have neptune in the 4th house, and it squares virgo… I have a stellium in virgo… saturn, mercury, asc, venus, mars and NN. So yes, I have actually asked myself that question: Why does he do this cruel stuff… how can a man be so mean? but, I am older now, I have a different attitude and I plan to use my neptune in a different way, I am going into the medical field (virgo asc) mars conj the nn, (surgery) and neptune will be opposing my stellium so I will be engaging with sick people… makes sense to me!

  5. Yes. I deeply wanted to believe my late Capricorn mother wasn’t a cruel control freak who took great pleasure in bullying and berating me even though my intuition shrieked she did. Because I was a child and needed her to survive, I convinced myself she just had a frightening temper and a biting sense of humor.

  6. I have Neptune in the 10th house conjuncting my moon. After she died, I grieved very hard. What I didn’t realize then is that I was grieving what I never had, not her.

  7. “Do you pretend people are unaware they are treating your poorly? Where is Neptune in your chart?”

    Neptune in 3rd, and chart greatly ruled over by Virgo/Mercury.

    I have a history of being the victim of domestic abuse. The abuser frequently used gaslighting.

  8. Um, yes, quite. Story of my life. Neptune on the SN in the 5th trine Venus. I am getting better at not lying to myself though. I’m not quite there..the tendency still creeps up on me and I’m in my early 30s. Hopefully I’ll have it figured out before I’m old and decrepit and nobody wants me anyway.

  9. PI, I feel and have lived exactly what you describe. I’m 44 and unless some really beneficial changes occur (entirely possible but so far no), my future is looking pretty stark and sad to me. It would be a great relief to me to become indifferent so I don’t have to feel the pain of wanting a partner I may die without finding. I have heard menopause can be helpful in that department because of the hormonal changes.

    The cold damn truth is NOTHING gives a woman more power than beauty and youth when it comes to attracting a mate most of the time. Yes, brainpower, kindness, compatibility matter a lot, but many men only care who you are as a human being if they like the way you look first and that is the cold damn truth. That said, there are women who seem to be with someone happily no matter their age. Nice work if you can get it.

    1. You know…I could see myself in your shoes I’m 10 years easily if I don’t fix this shit soon.

      It may be the cold hard truth but there are plenty of exceptions. I’ve seen old people find love in their 80s. Its not unheard of, but, yes it becomes much more unlikely.

      You’re still quite young. You have a while until you are considered old and decrepit. Some people stay young into their 70s. Those people are always a catch to other potential suitors who are also in good shape and looking for love.

      So just focus on taking care of your body so you can stay young longer to increase your odds of finding somebody worth having.

      Plus there are many things you can do to boost your attractiveness. You can try a nip or tuck here and there if you wanted to…if that would make you feel better about yourself. There is nothing wrong with that.

    2. @ScottishFoldSoul, I’m in complete agreement with you. After one failed marriage, late in life (you and I are close enough in age)I haven’t really put myself out there. but I’m not giving up just yet. I hope you will find companionship and/or peace either way. I’m newly menopausal, and I’m not too keen on sex these days. That said, I still really enjoy the company of men of quality.

    3. Really? Why buy into that? I know many +60 women who are not young who are not necessarily that slim but they do have a special something … and they do attract plenty of men. I’ve attracted plenty of men. And I’m not some young babe. Stretch marks yes!
      It’s energy that attracts ! (unless you just want to attract the kind of superficial people that go for that crap)

      1. There are always women of every age who readily attract men. What I’m saying is if you’re not one of those women, that fact is not much consequence of help. Good energy is no guarantee of finding a compatible, satisfying partner. That’s one of those ideas that should be true but just isn’t for a good number of women. Ladies who do better, more power to you, but your experience is not everyone else’s.

        1. As a man certainly youth and beauty are initial attractors but …

          … the least attractive woman I ever dated was physically stunningly beautiful. Libra mars/venus/pluto with Leo sun/mercury. But she had nothing to say. Not a smile or laugh from her, totally emotionally unavailable. (And the date was setup by a friend not by me making the effort to go get her number or something).

          … the most attractive women I’ve ever met, present themselves with energy and wanting to connect from the beginning. They’re fun and light-hearted. Every guy wants to know them.

          But few women do this. The vast majority hide their light under a bushel hoping that a guy will like them. Energetic women love themselves (sometimes for good, sometimes for bad). The rest sit there resenting them and labelling/judging them for it.

          Which category do you fall into?

          1. BlueMagoo, I’m curious. These women whose energy you found attractive, were they also as physically attractive to you as the emotionally unavailable Libra/Leo lady? And if they weren’t in your eyes, was their ability to connect enough to overcome that? Despite my morose ways, I can be very bubbly and lightheated socially and have been complimented on it by the opposite sex more than once. Doesn’t mean I got any dates out of it.

            1. There’s a difference between “beautiful” and “attractive”. Catalogue models and film stars are beautiful but that doesn’t mean I would find them attractive.

              Not every woman I dated had “movie star” looks – but if I liked them I’d feel very physically attracted to them as much intellectually / emotionally.

  10. No, I don’t pretend about people. I am always suspicious of them doing things on purpose. Scorpio Neptune in my 10th conjunct my MC.

  11. I’ve got Neptune at the very end of the fifth house in Capricorn and it makes aspects to my Sun, Moon (minor), Mercury, Mars, Venus and Pluto. Umm. There is absolutely a tendency for delusion!

    I’ve got my North Node in Taurus. I’ve learned that I’m here this time around to create a value system. Up until now I’ve been blowin’ around in the wind with no sense of self and no boundaries.

    It’s time to wake up. Every day… every moment.

    I’m working hard on building my value system, going within and constructing a foundation. I literally printed off a 10 page packet to help guide me. I’m sure it’ll take me a bit… but If I’m in a constant state of working towards my values… then I won’t unconsciously need to pretend or make excuses for someone that my delusional self has made my God. I don’t have to put my faith in another person. I can trust a person and put my faith in a higher power.

    My North Node makes no contact to Neptune… hallelujah!

  12. I wanted to come back because I just had to say that it is quite synchronistic for me that this post was reposted after the one about Scorpio compassion (processing others pain) because these two unrelated topics are everything summed up in a nut shell that I’m trying to process right now.

    I don’t know if anyone knows what I mean, but there’s this Scorpio archetype or Plutonian archetype, I guess, that’s like a forbidden fruit and you know it’s bad because you can see clear as day, you can see logically that their actions are anything but wholesome and good, but you continually lie to yourself; like maybe they did this for this or that other reason that justifies the bad act. You really want to believe they have good intentions and maybe they do… But you’ll never know. And thats what’s so hard for me — it’s that I can’t accept that I cant know. Because they aren’t going to tell you. You’ll never truly know for sure because you’re seeing a contradiction — the bad act combined with compassion. It drives me crazy. It must drive me crazy because I’m plutonian as well and I need to know everything. Motives are everything to me because if I can’t figure out a person’s motives, I don’t trust them.

    Anyway, this is what I meant when I said this tendency creeps up on me. Because yesterday I had not a care in the world about this. I’ve been trying to cut this out lately — this tendency to lie to myself. Because it is a pathological disease that lives inside me and takes away from my being able to live in the present, like a parasite or something. Everyday I do cord cutting and I pray. I’m determined to integrate this part of my soul/life energy so I can quit lying to myself, so I can feel empowered.

    Sorry so long… Theres a story to this so forgive me if I make no sense but you know…

  13. I think on the very low scale people can act from passion. Yelling at someone, acting out, hitting or shoving someone. Perhaps the choice is to suppress the action. Or doing something that hurts someone without knowing the degree of hurt. I have a Mars Saturn exchange with a kid at work. Sometimes I goad him or tease him familiarly when he’s withholding from me or turning away or react audibly when he says something shocking. Or I sometimes even ask him to do something by asking over the cubicle. This really bothers him sometimes in ways I can’t predict. My boss has his Mars on my Saturn and sometimes makes jokes about how I live at home or play videogames which are untrue but cut me close. Don’t think he’s aware of the effect

  14. I never know what’s going on.

    According to my chart I’m supposed to be super intuitive. I think I am but intuition doesn’t really work on a scale like this for me. It’s more subtle and focuses more on a deeper level in someone as opposed to what I’m getting out of it or what I mean to the person or whatever. It’s hard for me to use what I see for any kind of self protection. It seems like it’s more for the other persons benefit than mine. I can sense their needs.

    And No I don’t justify others actions towards me. If anything I tell a story of how much they hate me. Same issue though. Working on that.

  15. Neptune in Scorpio in sixth house – trine Chiron in Pisces and sextile Pluto in Virgo. I let this happen in the work place for too long. But Saturn and the recent mars (retrograde)transit as well as transiting Pluto conjunct natal merc has helped me learn valuable lessons. I’m NOT going to back to allowing someone to walkover me just because they are in a position of power. NO. I know it’s up to me not to play doormat.

  16. “They may not be deliberately hurting you. They may just be focused on taking care of their own needs and you are inconsequential to that”

    I just ended a four year relationship with someone who did a lot of gaslighting and a lot of inconsiderate things, But he also did a lot of wonderful things so it gets tricky when a person isn’t all good or all bad.
    Neptune 12th, square Sun.

    I grew up in an alcoholic home so my own standards of good behaviour and being treated right were never set properly. And with Mars in Pisces I am a total rescuer. I just think I can fix them/change them /heal them.

    And then when you start to figure out that something is wrong, part of the denial is… if you admit you’ve chosen somebody who would do these things to you, then you’re admitting you’re a loser.

    Easier to deny than face that reality

    I think the chart shows the tendency but oIr family patterns lay the groundwork.

  17. Wow great read!”where I fit in my own boundaries “ Moki ❤️
    These days my jump feature, so fast,
    I don’t seem to trust anything to mistake/
    Not trying to teach heal or forgive ,
    I have bar high for personal reasons
    No time for slumming .Too much generic
    Junk to give any thought to.
    My sister Nancy always says “If you listen they tell you it all, gotta listen”
    She also says”the thing he swings gotta be bigger than her toes”
    She says funny stuff

  18. Neptune conjunct Venus in the 7th here…

    I was in denial. I thought he would change and apologize. It meant that I could continue going along in the relationship and dream about the wonderful future that surely awaited us, and we would live happily ever after, or something like that. Living with the abuse was easier than giving up on us, until it wasn’t. These things have a way of escalating.

  19. That sounds like me. Im such a bad jundge of people. And some taken advantage of me. Neptune in 11th squaring Venus

  20. Do you pretend people are unaware they are treating your poorly? Where is Neptune in your chart?

    People pretend otherwise, because they don’t want it to be the way it really is. They come up with scenarios and make up excuses to explain their boyfriend’s behavior.

    At best, the offending person is oblivious to the stories you tell yourself. Because if they’re not, they’re exploiting your tendency delude yourself. They’re using it to manipulate you which drops the whole thing down to a level so uncomfortable many won’t venture there at all.
    I have had to pretend at times. Neptune in the 4th. It was pretend, or overlook it, or cause such a commotion no one would be able to overcome that come to Jesus meeting.

    What did I do? I moved. I moved so far away it couldn’t happen anymore. The family calls it… the day I dropped Napalm. I just walked away from all of them. I did not argue. I did not raise my voice. I did not point it out. I did not say, I am leaving because of xyz. I didn’t say a word.
    Other than, on this date I am moving. I didn’t issue ultimatums. I didn’t say now listen, if you don’t stop doing this or that I am out of here. Nope. THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING
    AND I KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. It was pretty clear.

    Now they can F someone else over. But there is still this…. I do not blame them. I let it happen. They were all only going to do what I allowed. I just had to get sick of it. No matter how much and how deeply I loved them all I had to have enough self-love and self-respect to put my foot down and stop it. I’m not mad. I wasn’t mad when I left. I was sad though. Sad that they didn’t enjoy the benefits of what they had when they had it. They know now. They have even said…. I didn’t mean to take advantage of you. I didn’t mean to ignore you. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.

    Yes, they did. They knew what they were doing. While I have Neptune conjunct my sun and, in my 4th, it was painful enough that I had to stop it. Also, expensive and draining to a person who was getting ready to retire. They knew what they were doing and had no plan of stopping it. So, I did.

    Some people need to lose all access to you permanently and with no explanation.

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