“…How do you defend yourself against bad energy that is not so obvious or just a bad energy of other people in general (without taking such “dramatic” decisions like cutting them off)? We were such good friends for long period of time. What is interesting this is not the first time I’ve done this to people. I’ve had bad luck throughout the life with people being jealous of me and I’ve paid a price because of that many times.
How do you deal with bad energy of other people which you did not cause or provoke, but still has a negative effect on you?”
Knowing I have a packed 8th house, a gal in a similar circumstance sent me this note which I condensed and edited for clarity. This gal has just amputated two 10-year-long friendships because her friends were knocking her down in ways that are plausibly deniable. Gaslighting, basically. She could see through it. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume she’s read the situation correctly.
She seems to be asking if this is just how it’s going be or how it’s got to be. I think it probably is but I’m willing to explore this and ask others to weigh in.
To answer her specific question, ultimately, you defend yourself by amputating. So what she’s really asking is can you live with this?
You can live with it but if you have a choice, I’m not sure why you would. If you work with someone like this, you’re stuck. But if you’re involved socially with someone who hates you (they often don’t realize it), and you can get away from them, I would.
Yes, you can use their negative energy! But there is no shortage of that. It’s everywhere! Why invite it in? Why bring it to your house?
I think 8th house people have to get comfortable with the idea they make other people uncomfortable. It also helps to realize you don’t want a million friends.
This is challenging if parts of your chart are “social”. I’ve got this problem, myself. But the fact is, you’re going to appear shadowy if not flat-out dark to a significant percentage of people. You can’t control them. There is no cure! I mean, they start out liking you, or your veneer or whatever, but your actual self disturbs them. I’ve been through this a billion times!
Eventually you realize you’re going to have just a few friends. TRY TO KEEP THEM.
Over time, you realize you’ve got to contain quite a bit or it won’t be possible. I’m sorry but this is what I’ve learned.
Can anyone else weigh in?
With my Pluto aspects, I’ve experienced this but it’s taken me a long time to learn how to do it well. I used to drop people like flies and my 3rd house emphasis had me move a lot, so I am pretty bereft of friends.
Most recently I left 2 people behind who were two-faced with me over a few years, and although I need to be social, I can’t do it with people like them. So for now I am content to be rather alone. I’ve learned to accept what is, and if I am lucky, one day I will realize that I do have some true friends around me. It’s something I very much crave, but it’s extremely important not to become desperate – that just invites those draining types back in. Pluto/8th house does require patience in many regards.
In short, 3 things are key: acceptance, patience and discernment. The second two very much require the first.
Can this happen with 12H’ers too? I feel like this has been the case all my life… Sun, Mercury in Cap 12H.
I think these are different animals.
Ok – thanks Elsa! Maybe because of the Cap Pluto transit the described situation just feels similar to me. Maybe I’ll figure this out by the time Pluto moves on to Aquarius. (laughing wildly with sarcasm)
To clarify, I just meant the 8th and 12th house are different.
8th & 12h are both water signs – elementally I feel it adds to the intensity of the planet that reside in our chart. I have Pluto in my 1H Virgo and so as once was told “if looks could kill”. I also draw in with a veneer but then it’s recognizing my protected self will only take them
So far, people can sense.
12th house is nebulous, dreamy and creative. It’s Jupiter’s old home. If it’s in cap, Saturn needs some traditional rituals to appease it – maybe religious, maybe not. But whatever it is, it should make you feel inspired and at peace. That is a way to attract the community that will most get you Imo. Peace✨
I agree – I need to have a daily ritual to connect with Source or else I feel off. I light candles and do prayers of gratitude daily if I don’t rush my morning. I have a much better day when I do prayers.
Thanks for your input, Mila!
I know one person rather “well” with heavy capricorn in 12H + moon in cancer. Very detached person in general and almost impossible to read even as heavy 8H person myself. To answer your question from my experience- he does not do that. I never heard or saw him do in this fashion. However he does struggle to make deep connections with people and that’s been a case since forever.
Thanks for your input, I appreciate this. It gives me a lot to think about and dig in to.
One note though. He is social person. He does go out and hang out with various people on day to day basis. But it’s very secretive and he will never tell you anything about how he feels or his private problems (not suprising since we are talking about 12H person). Very disciplined individual and very calm (typical capricorn) in almost all scenarios. Highly intelligent introvert. He does go crazy and yell when he watches sports though. He used to drink every weekend (probably a way to vent out), nothing unusual. He also struggles with romantic relationships, he is indeed loner.
I know him for many years and even though we hanged many times together and played soccer together in the same club, i only know him this much by my observation and nothing else.
How do you even deal with such heavy introverted person i wonder.
I have a stellium in the 12th myself.
I look at the 8th and 12th house in this way. 12th house people, unless other parts of their charts counter or balance this, stay invisible. Their energy is…dreamy,isolated. Not of this world. Like they are always looking down at things.
The 8th house (Ive got stuff there too) holds an intensity that makes it impossible to stay hidden. Its an undercurrent
People see you by way of intuition. The darker depths either intrique or scare/repel them.
12th house is hidden enemies but your energy doesnt create this. Your natural detachment does.
8th house enemy is an instinctual response and therefore more feral and direct.
Over the full moon in Scorpio (2 days ago) it seemed no one was containing their odd bits…they were letting it all hang out. It happened in my 11th house of friendship. I learned a few things and my relationship with my boyfriend of 2-1/2 yrs has taken another hit. In the other 2 relationships, it only solidified what I already suspected. Yes, I’m a Libra Sun and indeed it was very freaky seeing the dirt on others as well as them seeing my dirt. I’m learning that I can’t have a relationship with just anyone at anytime. We have to share common interests and values among other things before it can have any depth.
“Eventually you’ll realize your’re going to have few friends. TRY TO KEEP THEM.” This is what I’ve learned, too. My 8th House impacts everything in my natal chart. And, my Scorpio Mercury is at the mid-point between my Saturn and ASC … I’ve learned this accounts for my sensitivity to the environment (elementals and interactions with ‘others’). I’d rather live in a bubble but even bubbles burst:/
Defending myself against others’ energy is an exercise in “Dynamic Disequilibrium” … it’s not possible, or maybe better said, it’s not probably, to be in balance with all that ‘other’. Instead, the reality is learning to adapt even with so many ‘fixed’ signatures in my genetics; helps me transcend. All that 8th House ends up in my 12th … but it takes awhile. Long answer … there is no short story to a long story. LOL.
It’s taxing from all points of view. It’s the typical lump inside the throat, loss of appetite and stomachache. Tho with just a planet there in the 8th, I do experience the feeling when planets transit there and it’s very obvious. I would have had a harder time with moon in the 8th for example. Can’t imagine people putting up with bad energy just like that for long periods of time (even plants dry from hearing bad words and feeling bad vibes) and be completely unaffected, unscathed but maybe some manage to?
This is really good and needed today. I have south node in Pisces in the 8th house conjunct Chiron, and I think I had a go of it in a past life, and certainly when I was younger. I am very careful who I let in these days, and it takes a long time. There is always part I keep in reserve. I need to think on this some more.
I have an 8th house Sun, with a Pluto, Mars and Saturn packed in 4th house Scorpio (stellium), opposing my Moon, squaring Mercury.
I’m a bit familiar with this.
It takes time and growth, pattern recognition. Scorpio energy doesn’t like manipulation, lies, etc., and will use one’s immense energy to defend itself in typical fixed, stoic fashion.
But that energy can be wasted, but when young one will not know this. Takes a few rounds to recognize what is worth it and what is not.
It’s also imperative that you have a few, close, deep connections with others. Many cannot handle the energy. You’ll be lucky to have more social factors involved, but that latent energy still exudes and pervades, but I’m guessing here.
We are just HEAVY individuals. Attracting others bodies with our mass is easy, but we have to ward off those who cannot handle or are looking for trouble. Takes growth and maturity for us all.
I’ve pretty much been a recluse my entire life, with the exception of some brief periods, and even then, my circles were always extremely small.
At the moment, there is only one person of consequence in my life, only one person who truly matters to me, whose presence in my life is an immense gift and blessing. He is one of my brothers.
Because of a large age difference, we did not grow up really knowing each other. But that all changed six years ago. Our lives were thrown together in a way neither of us could have foreseen.
We have been tight ever since. We did have a ‘falling out’ at one point, but we clearly both value each other, and despite my heavy Plutonian chart and tendencies, I (thank goodness) had enough sense not to amputate him. We simply ‘sat it out’ and wordlessly resumed our friendship when we were ready.
We did not discuss what happened, we did not deny it, we simply both chose to leave it behind and move on.
Another brother, on the other hand, although I have not technically amputated him, and still politely interact with him when necessary… he is now just another person on the planet to me. What he did was beyond the pale, endangered me and caused great and irreversible harm. He has never acknowledged this and an apology without remorse would be meaningless. I have removed myself to a place of safety (from him). (It wasn’t the first time he’d gravely harmed me. I made the decision it would be the last.)
I think you about nailed it. I’m an 8th house person too, and i’m down to just about zero friends. it’s not actually zero, and i have family but…yeah it sucks. everyone needs people, and i’ve got gemini rising, 7th house placements, and fire moon and venus so i need social, but what can i do?
i used to have a huge friend group of people that weren’t really my friends. i know not everyone can go as deep as 8th house people, but these people were beyond petty and often mean.
the social part of me misses the social schedule i had. the deeper part of me knows i’m better off with people that either can meet me in the depths or can accept the depths exist, even if they’re not prepared to go there, rather than getting uncomfortable and attacking.
luckily, there are people out there like that. not many, and several of the ones i’ve found are related to me, but they exist.
I have Jupiter in the 8 house and mars, Pluto and Uranus in Virgo (11 & 12 Hs). All my life people start off being obsessed with me and curious and interested (they like my sag/libra side). But then I TEST them ? and my self destructive side acts a little weirder and says the odd outre thing or I swear a bit, just to see their reaction. They’re usually shocked. OR it’s the other way round – people assume when they meet me that I’m a bit rough around the edges and act surprised (openly) when they find out I speak several languages, have higher degrees and high level jobs, etc. This makes me test them, too! Using the same method. It’s stupid I know. I hate people putting me in a box. If they try to do it, I cut them off immediately. It’s because I can’t relate to them – it’s not revenge. I do try to keep some friends – they are usually interesting people who can understand layered meaning and irony. But there are only a few. They are all Aquarius, Leo, Sag and Gemini. No other signs can deal with me!
I have a packed 8th house and I have amputated two friends that I wouldn’t have expected to. I also have a sort of history of distant people (think store clerk, person I just met and exchanged a few pleasantries with, etc) having strong reactions to me, either they think I’m bad or they feel I have not validated them sufficiently and I’m like whaaa? Thought I was just minding my business, who are you? Very strange, infrequent but strange
Just thinking,remembering something said;even bad energy is energy handed to you !You and that energy newly given?Felix the cat’s bla.ck bag,what cha gonna do with all that?energy !
huh?it might be a mighty bag go muscicians throwing a flamingo dance on you,what cha gonna do?Chuchee?just another thought ,throwing it out to you’all,.one little glimmerous part of today made me wonder
Do I miss my life or am I bored stiff of it, just the work part, cuz the nature part’s been
beaucoup,the beauty that comes in spring,makes me want to pick up a paintbrush
Wow – this article is so relevant to me personally. Thank you for the clarity.
H8 Sun 15* Cancer with SRx 1* Mercury that sextiles my MC/Mars/Pluto in H10 Virgo.
I used to be troubled/puzzled by having to defend myself against the unjust/unknown/indefensible that would come out of nowhere. Now, I realise I do not have to do a single thing; the jealousy/envy is just there no matter what I do or say. I’ve learnt the problem is theirs, not mine and I will not shoulder it. If my presence makes them uncomfortable, I’m happy to remove myself.
I have few close, valuable friends, but I am happy with that. It is family (both immediate and extended) who have been the worst offenders, so I simply cut the ties.
At work, I’ve regularly come across this, so I keep quiet, exercise extreme patience and just get on with what I’m paid to do. Acceptance is the key.
What astrological aspects would make someone an 8th house person? Is it a lot of planets in that particular house or someone with a lot of Scorpio planets?
A lot of people think this way. But I think conflating things like this degrades the information.
For example, I don’t care how many planets are in my 8th house, I am not a Scorpio. Again, this is just my opinion.
I see.
So, the 8th house and Scorpio planetary placements are mutually exclusive, hence do not conflate?
Would that then mean we should separate the 8th house themes of death, rebirth, hidden desires, from the personality of Scorpio?
Sounds like a good topic for the forum.
I am trying to stay focused on the 8th house here. I have purposely teased it out. 🙂
I just thought the same….about creating a forum topic.
I also just remembered that the 8th house deals with other peoples stuff, correct?
Thank you so much for identifying and explaining this issue. In Equal Houses I have Uranus in Leo in the 8th House squaring Moon in Scorpio in the 11th, so there’s definitely some discomfort in that exchange. With Placidus houses, Pluto and N. Node in Virgo join Uranus in the 8th House, which further intensifies the 8th vs. 11th/Plutonian/Uranian dynamic. Having Chiron in Aquarius also lends a painful element of not-quite-fitting-in. I have always preferred one-to-one close friendships to groups, and perhaps this is partly why. My friendships tend to be deep and lasting, but few. I have experienced hostility or jealousy from others at different times in my life. I currently have that situation with a colleague at work who is not my boss, but still outranks me. I have tried being friendly, but nothing seems to help, so I am trying not to let her negativity bother me, and to stay out of her way as much as possible.
‘Eventually you realize you’re going to have just a few friends. TRY TO KEEP THEM.’
Absolutely true!
I’m quite introverted (yey!) yet have lots of Air in my personal planets (all personal planets except the Sun are in Air) so I am an outgoing introvert and have a social need to connect.
I engage in heavy mental gymnastics every now and then to reflect and avoid amputating the wrong people.
It’s worth the effort yet it takes lots of restraint, hehe.
Like DarkAquarian says “we have to ward off those who cannot handle or are looking for trouble.”
I don’t regret amputating anyone in my life yet I work hard not to amputate good friends or potential good friends. We are all just people, right?
With 8th house planets I think we can sass out who will emit bad energies quite well (although I admit it’s a little traumatic and heavy to have this ability and these experiences when one is young), and either decide to be civil yet distanced or walk the other way and save precious energies.
Having just a few good friends is the 8th house planets people’s destiny plus it gets better to manage these energies and tendencies as we age.
I had tons more drama and pain linked to this subject in my 20s and 30s. It’s hard when one is young yet don’t despair (if you are) as it gets better.
How do people with Neptune transits defend themselves against bad energy?
Kri,
See if this might be of help.
I’m having a Neptune transit (Neptune will conjunct my Sun a couple of times more in Oct 2020 and in Jan 2020 after three passes already in 2019 and early 2020.)
There is no guarantee that some bad energy people will not lurk into my world during a Neptune transit yet I do the following to center myself under a Neptune transit (to my Sun):
* Rely on the advice – when I’m in doubt – of good and loyal friends, family members and husband with Earth planets. Those with good energies in general.
* Do daily affirmations around boundary-setting…every day and sometimes more than once in a day…to keep grounded and alert to being persuaded into something that is not right or true…
* Be aware that deception will come in some form in my life…I try not to be the one doing it (gotta check on my own denial defenses) yet be aware it will happen somehow…so trying to select projects and people…yet there is no way to control this in high percentages.
* Stay in touch with nature often…either by gardening…walking on a beach or in a park or in the garden…this helps with recognising bad energies when they are approaching…
* Tending to pets (not my case) is quite grounding too. Same bebefits as above.
* Rest lots…Neptune and naps…neptunes and apathy…hehe…allow idle time to reflect, ponder or just be…and still then do some grounding so when emerging from these states one stays as grounded and aware as possible…that neptune allows…
* Even if I like an author or teacher of some subject I don’t idealise anyone nor any subject, even those I like very much. We’re all human and there are imperfections everywhere…disappointment is expected…(not said in a bitter way.)
* Watch art and films, listen to music, dance, paint…anything Neptunian and often to channel the energy…Neptune needs its daily space during Neptune transits…best to have these channels so one can be grounded in other areas and defend oneself if needed.
* Try to keep a schedule and keep some good grounding daily habits yet be aware that some things will be lost to Neptune…hard to tell what yet normally I look at the areas where I’m suffering the most or experiencing more sacrifices (both Neptune) and that gives me a glimpse…perhaps (it’s neptune afterall so mirages abound…)
* Do this till the transit is over! and then hope that I still recognise myself enough afterwards, hehe.
Had a really rough and drifty Neptune transit (conjunction to personal planets) many years ago and this time I have a mortgage so I am more prepared…I think (neptune)
I have neptune contacting personal planets in my chart (harsh aspects) so I know neptune. So I’d suggest that anyone going through Neptune transits asks their friends/positive family members with Neptune aspects (harsh or not harsh aspects) so they can learn how these friends manage, express and deal with Neptune, to take some notes.
Thank you, CL. That is really helpful. I am doing some things like taking time in nature, drifting at times, watching for signs. Neptune is in my 2nd and I’m in denial of money stuff. I’m also having my Mars Pluto transit and I don’t want to waste it but.. it’s been going on for a while and my movement is sloow. A lot of the people who were there to help me are pulling away because I just don’t change.
I like the questions, and CrisLondon’s response.
The list Cris gave is great. I didn’t start doing anything of the sort until the last few years of the transit.
I went thru Neptune conjunct my 8th house Aquarian Sun. 13 long fucking years.
I lived in a fugue state. Information regarding truth and lies were entangled. It was one of the hardest times of my life.
My little brother died, drastically, then suddenly, in my arms. It was the beginning of the transit.
I went to college thinking I was there for 1.5 years. I wasn’t.
I was there for a year. Over half of the classes I do NOT remember being in.
My 6 year relationship ended.
Did lots of drugs. My childhood habits came back 10 fold: lying, stealing when I could, gambling. Was involved in or knew of many dark situations, and obviously, I didn’t know all the info behind the scenes.
Jobs came and went. I was not centered, disoriented.
BUUTTT, philosophy came to life, as did astrology. My true friends stood out after some time, others continued to charades.
Saturn went from my 6th to 7th. Those perpetuating the charades (including myself), were amputated, whether I wanted it or not.
Perhaps you should see what else is happening in your chart that can highlight the effects and aftereffects Neptune is creating.
Sorry about your brother
🙁
Your neptune transit started with a massive loss…those were tough years for you
Ya, but it’s all been worth it.
The apology is nice, but I’m not sad or broken about it.
There are no mistakes from where I stand. It took years for me to see life this way.
I understand. Thanks for letting me know, DarkAquarian.
In my case my losses from the previous Neptune transit did help to strip me from an identity and values I didn’t need anymore. Hence I know some good will come out from the suffering and losses I experience with this current transit.
DA, I’m so sorry to hear this. It sounds like a really intense reckoning.
I have to tell you I’m a bit scared but very loopy. My childhood habits are also coming out, jealousy and sort of fantasy distracting me from daily life. I feel off but wish I’d do more. I have many outer planet transits going on now. Mars Pluto, Saturn coming to my AC. I am desperately clinging to one thing I want without working to get it.
Oh, no apology needed. But what was needed is what occurred. To me, there are no mistakes in life.
Your attachments are coming to the forefront, and as you mentioned as well, childhood material.
Seems you may have to turn and face the dragon.
The antidote is the cure.
My Libra 8th house Moon is square both Juno and Mars in Capricorn.
I NEED the intimacy (pure sex is not intimacy to me) in relationships, and I have a natural affinity with death. I can see death coming and feel it too, it being relationships to others, actual death or my own emotions dying/changing.
For me, I have attracted the quiet/judgemental/disapproving types of people a lot of times. (My emotional cold mother is very Capricornian) I have SN in Cap close to Mars as well, almost at the border of my 12th house. Mars can be blind…and I sometimes attract the ones who are secretly angry at women, judgemental and uses me for the benefits I can give them, the deep 8th house energy.
I have one very very great friend. She is a transsexual woman, former man, and our brains just sing so perfectly together. (Aquarius Ascendant). She is Scorpio, and I have 4 planets in a Stellium in the sign. So, 3 planets in 8H plus 4 in Scorpio…. That makes it very likely that people will be uncomfortable with the energy I exude.
My Aquarius Ascendant often fool them though, and then… When I REALLY open up, only a handful have been able to and capable of handling the intense energy of Scorpio.
Either their Neptune-Venus opposition fool them and then they run when the illusions disappear, or I end up amputating them.
Once had a friend who went through a Pluto opposite Sun transit and I ended up cutting her off, she threw a lot of projections on me, instead of holding herself up to it. You get real tired of those vampires…
I have an eighth house south node in Aquarius. I have had many friendships which transformed into horribly clingy and draining relationships. The friends were all intimate and helping in times of need, but never really allowed me to grow or be independent. I find myself in a quagmire, often blaming myself for wanting to dissociate. I find it psychically impossible to detach unless I disappear and ghost them out completely. I also meet with a lot of unexpected difficulties if I share my plans/wishes with these friends (which makes me wonder if there is any truth to ‘evil eye’).
I also have a mars in 12th house and Chiron in 11th house.
The long Saturn and Pluto transit in my 7th house is helping me figure out these issues albeit slowly and painfully.
“but never really allowed me to grow or be independent” this is completely spot on. I can assume you were kind of afraid to freely express yourself to them or in their company because you were scared of being judged (not necessarily directly but rather what will they think of you [their thoughts]). Even thought you were very close friends. That was my case. About evil eye- i learned to not share any information what is going on. Only to my family and nobody else.
LOL, I’m not a Plutonian or an 8th houser, but who can you trust, eh? I guess you can only know partly in hindsight!
Such comprehensive, amazing responses here. I can only echo that I too, am a self contained individual. Although I talk to many, I truly and utterly trust very few. Less than a handful have had the pleasure (LOL), of witnessing my emotional intensity & private obsessive nature. Often what we have encountered in life is also too dark, and even unbelievable, to share.
I wouldn’t change my 8th house because I believe the pain I’ve experienced as given me a deep compassion. I have a healthy view of death and it’s not uncommon for me to be able to assist others with their loved one’s passing. I am currently supporting a friend during her mother’s transition and am feeling comfort through providing comfort. I guess it feels like some higher calling.
8th house Neptune & Mercury conjunct, ugh. Get the wool pulled over my eyes. Or there is confusion. Should I trust what someone is saying or not. Sometimes people are not who I thought they were.
Cancer moon in 8th house. People are jealous of me. I am insanely creative: writing, music, art, and all my life people resent and attack me for it, with the exception of a few, including both of my husbands, men hate my capacity for joy. I learned to keep my creativity hidden, I praise people (genuinely) for their achievements and deflect attention from myself. Scorpio rising, I’m hidden. I’m also quite lonely sometimes but that beats getting attacked all the time! I do cut people off after 3 chances, don’t know how else to do it.
!?!?
Hmmm. I am Libra With 4 planets in the 8H (Moon,Mars,Pluto,Jupiter…All within 10 degrees). I can definitely relate to cutting people out as a defense mechanism. As I get older though I see it differently. I have chosen to end friendsips because the person’s behavior and lifestyle choices are not what I want to surround myself with and are not in alignment with my standards & moral code. For example I have one friend who was carrying on a destructive relationship with a married person for years and years, extremely obese, and not getting help for addictions…not wanting to change, preferring to be a victim. I got tired of seeing the self-destruction with no effort to better oneself. I grew tired of feeling sorry for him, making excuses for him , and having misplaced compassion. If most of my “friends” knew my true feelings, perceptions, and beliefs about this virus, politics, and worldview, they would cut me off! I am looking now to find friends who are more in alignment with the ideas and beliefs I am fearful to show. The more I learn about the way the world works, I am very deep, intense, and passionate about truth and freedom. Most people just cannot take the intensity and raw truth. Oh well!
I have some 8th house. I can definitely relate to friends hating me without realizing it, sadly. Fortunately, I think the last of those individuals left my life in February. Everyone who remains feels “true” and I intend to hang onto them.