Reality & Imagination

Pisces divinci green

Saturn in Pisces mashes reality with imagination. I came across a highly interesting opinion.

The idea is that you don’t get what your imagination creates.
Rather, you get what was created by forces outside of your imagination.

Does this seem correct to you?

If this is is in fact true, understanding it should open doors.

I’ve been mulling this for days.  It’s help me stay in the present.

94 thoughts on “Reality & Imagination”

  1. I tell you one thing, I never imagined Covid. All of the horrid things that happened in my life, I never imagined could or would happen. I picked up my bootstraps, persevered and overcame. To tell you the truth, I don’t think we ever get anything we imagine – if we do it’s contrived and may have a false ring to it. All my best times, best incidences I would never have imagined. Obviously Spirit and what makes up the Nature of Reality is beyond our imagination, for we don’t fully understand Life yet.

  2. Elsa, I’m going to completely disagree with this concept of the outside world determines your reality. You have the power to create worlds. You are an infinite being. There is nothing you can’t have, do or be. The only thing blocking us from achieving anything in this world is our belief about it. If we believe that the world is against us, IT IS SO! If we believe we can create our own reality, IT IS SO! When our beliefs don’t match our desires, then the universe brings us more of what we believe. It really comes down to alignment with our true source. Not judging what we see, but being fine with what shows up instead of fighting it, judging it, liking or hating it, try to just accept it instead. And then continue to consider what you DO want is already on the way. It’s not about what happens TO you. YOU attract everything that comes to you. It didn’t come to you by any other means except that you had a belief about it, continue to think about it, so Universe keeps bringing you more of it. Like to think about the world of suffering and low energy subject matter? Universe will send you more of that. Get into a mindset of believing that those things don’t matter to you because you can’t control them anyway! The best way to harness the power of creating your own reality is to only let in what you want to be in thar reality. I used to get caught up in news, politics, drama in my environment, but I learned to give it all up because I can’t change it! Yes. Head in the sand. Yes. Ignore people who gossip, are negative and toxic. Yes. Ignore news and things you have no control over. You did not come here to fix governments, systems, people and their problems. You are here to be happy and create your reality to support your own happiness. This lifestyle is not an easy path and it requires thinking outside the norms of society but not caring about that. Hope it makes sense, if not, refer to Neville Goddard, Abraham Hicks, Joseph Murphy teachings. Peace and love to you and may your journey show you that you are simply a vibrational being of love and light in every moment.

    1. See, I don’t agree. I think we are different people. I DID come here to help people and nothing in the world matters more to me than that! 🙂

      1. From Rhonda’s perspective you will attract people with problems constantly Elsa because your here to help people. And you think constantly on this IS that so?

        1. No, it’s not so. I’m standing in the fog here.
          I also had four clients today, with not one thing in common. I nailed all four consultations and my brain is fatigued.

          I posted this because I thought it was interesting and unique. Something, people might like to consider?

          I guess I succeeded because people are engaged, however I am not interested in this dialogue, truth be told. Its draining so I’d like to just step off and let the conversation continue without me.

          To be clear, I am tired. I would like to cook dinner, eat it with my husband, then relax…my mind in particular.

          1. Not one of the four had anything in common with the other when it cane to specifics…….BUT THEY ALL HAD PROBLEMS!!! THAT MY POINT!

            1. let me ask you, name one single person in the world that has not had any problems little or small. sorry but with taxes, death and all matters of 8th house you can’t escape problems. Even if you would go into the world alone homeless and escape taxes and being emotionally invovled with loved ones. just so you can escape your problems, you still would get problems. health problems, and starvation, and ultimately the aloneness of it all because we are human beings that need contact and there’s always going to be problems in this world little or small.

              1. *NOT being emotionally invovled with people i mean. like distance from people so you dont have to FEEL their pain and heartache. You’re still gonna feel problems and invite all kinds of disease and die early due to the elements and poor health. we are all fragile human beings.

            2. Because problem solving through astrology is her JOB! Anyone in any profession is going to attract people who need what ever they offer!

    2. I don’t believe people dwell on fears or tragedy because they “like” to think about them!
      Planting the idea that one attracts such things in the mind of someone vulnerable who reads this could cause actual harm.
      We were not put here to ignore others’ suffering. If you waste your life in self-centered oblivion you’ve squandered all of its potential.

      1. I couldn’t have put this better myself, you’ve worded so eloquently what I want to express.

        I’ve seen it happen often, people with this mindset of, thinking positively = positive outcomes will result. Guess what happened? They didn’t get anything positive happen in their lives, now matter how much they believed in positive creative imagination.

        Then they would berate themselves for it, and ponder on what it is they were really attracting from the universe, maybe they weren’t feeling positive enough? Maybe they had an inner subconscious block? Maybe the universe got confused at what they were requesting, or they weren’t aligned with the higher frequency of the Cosmos?

        This eventually led to deep disappointment, which led to a deeper depression. It was sad to watch people spiral like that.

        We are infinite beings, but we are shoved in a meat cage, in a dense limited environment, with primitive mental faculties.

        When people get what they want from the universe, it’s because they already had some or all of the resources.

        An example, you have a desire to become slimmer. Imagining it is not enough. You can believe in a positive outcome, but a positive result will only manifest if you put the work in! In this case, changing your diet, exercise daily, and fully committing to the hard work without giving up at the first setback!

        Ps: I think the Universe knows far more than what we give them credit for. I’m sure they just laugh at us puny human muggles 😂

      2. I agree Warped. We don’t escape suffering. We bear it. We carry each other when needed and try, God help us, not to add to it. This is my experience after living through the 1970s/80s self help manifestation extravaganza.

    3. People take this Law of Attraction manifestation stuff to extremes and it becomes spiritual bypassing and updated versions of Protestant Puritanical blame,moral superiority and justification of ones unearned privilege.

  3. Interesting and yes this does seem correct to me.

    If I got what my imagination created, my life would either be way better or way worse than it is right now. I just don’t think the universe works like that.

    1. One piece that’s missing is your belief about that imagination. If you desire something and don’t believe it is possible, then it is not possible. You get what you think about. Your imagination IS yours. No one can stop it except you, by not believing in it. Even Einstein said imagination is more powerful than a brilliant mind. You have the power to imagine anything you desire into your reality but you must believe! This is what Jesus meant by faith. Believe it, and it is so.

        1. But the thing is that you believe you are 5’5”. The objective truth is the easiest thing to believe because it’s already proven. It’s not believable for you to suddenly be six feet tall.

            1. oooh, lol, I can answer that for you! You also believed that you were NOT seriously burned, despite all telling you the contrary, despite that nurse scrubbing half your epidermis away. And thus! So it was.
              You *create* your own reality via your beliefs. How and who you may perceive it to be/come from, the fact remains we are ALL creators! It’s just that because it’s such an innate and instinctual skill of your, it is not remarkable to you. And I can tell you now, those abilities with the wrong mindset can destroy worlds.

              1. Really interesting. Very few people have remarked about that phenomena, but I have to tell you, I knew I was burned. I was trying to work with one hand, to prove it was possible. I have Capricorn and expected the worst, but intended to persevere. The story is still public. You can verify.

                It’s actually the opposite. I initially denied the burn, imagined I was okay. I didn’t get very far with that! Like less than five minutes. More like less than three!

              2. To reply to your’s Elsa, that’s the thing! While you were not in denial at all, that innate belief overrode, despite your inner rationale telling [roaring to the hilltops!] you [rightly] otherwise. You instinctively know how to navigate the universe and its quantum quirks. You know *in your bones* that nothing is ever inpossible, no matter how unlikely. And you’ve managed to weft and weave that into really workable energy in the physical plane. Honestly, you are all correct here on this thread! It’s everything and so much more!

              3. the summary
                Brain: Seriously?! I need to keep going here! We’re not doing this! No! Rahhhh!
                Body: Alrighty then! Gimme a few days to sort this.
                This is part of your innate, you allow your subconcious to do the things to help and heal, you and by default others. Not many have the sync and those that do [you] do magical things. That’s wat normal humaning is supposed to be. But the absolute tragedy is that it is deemed a novelty, rather than a core essential.

  4. If you believe that helping others is your destiny, then it IS your destiny and everything that comes into your reality will support that. The conundrum with this is that we are not meant to save people, or take on their problems. They must choose to save themselves. We cannot get sick enough to help the sick. We cannot get poor enough to help the poor. You have to accept that the more you do something, the more it shows up in your reality. Either way, you have to accept your reality is exactly what you have attracted. You attracted people with problems because that’s what you think about. Universe doesn’t judge it right or wrong, good or bad…it’s just law of attraction…if you think about it, more of it shows up. Again, I’m suggesting people can have the reality they want by believing that they can. If you believe something is possible ie:helping others, then it is so! If you believe that the world is a horrible place, full of people who will challenge you and bring problems to you…then it is also “so” too…mindfulness about our beliefs and finding a state of mind that supports those beliefs us the trick here. The magic of manifestations that show up in our reality are the result of what we believe. I’m not the best at describing how to use this law, but if you pay attention to your thoughts long enough, you will see how they show up in your life, wanted or unwanted. Most people get caught up in defining ourselves as one thing or another, defending our opinions about who we are, what we’ve done and how right we are about something which only brings more of this “proving” energy into our experience. You don’t have to prove, do or be anything you don’t want to, so true peace of mind comes from being ok with each and every moment that passes. I really appreciate all you do, Elsa. Not here to force opinions. These are mine and I shared them because you invited us to do so in this blog. I have no expectations about this shared info influencing or changing anyone’s beliefs. I just found it to work for me. 🙏🏻

    1. i dont agree with what you say, but you’re entitled to your perspective opinions ^^ ofc. It’s just that, there’s flaws in the system, if innocent children or innocent people in this world didnt ask for pain and suffering or to be harmed, that the law of attraction is going to get them because they are just being innocent into this world. Even we know of lovely people who were never negative, get cancer, and pass away. they didnt ask for that or imagined it into their being.

  5. Avatar
    James Slattery

    When I think of Pisces and Neptune I think of the phrase “I contain multitudes”. As big as the universe: all reality + all we can not see. You have a choice to be haunted with several personalities or live on faith that the universe is working in your favor and that everything, everywhere has a meaning behind it. You are a drop in the ocean but can connect with all that is and ride the wave.

  6. I don’t think it’s too wise for me to try to pin it down too much, but I have noticed some things. The subconscious is a powerful force. Imagination seems to draw from it or is drawn from it (I haven’t noticed which one is more innate, but my theory is that it’s a kind of conversation between the two.) It can be wielded and is always directed by someone, wether it’s the individual’s own will or something outside. You can implant your own data or it’s implanted by the society, family (first seven years).

    1. I have to say that this was so elegantly and succinctly stated that I ran with this and co-opted it in my other ramblings! It was only upon re-reading through all the responses that I even noticed I’d done that. Subconscious for the win! Many apologies, and thank you so much for a really great summary!

  7. When I posted this, I was thinking about Saturn in Pisces and also, how people try to find “ideal” partners they imagine – it never happens.

    Well, it happens but the situation is fleeting. We can touch bliss but it is not going to be a sustained in a relationship. People fart and much more! YOU fart and much more.

    So this the frame I was using to evaluate the statement. And I have observed that the best things I get, do flow to me. Or maybe someone shares their good idea, created by them, not my imagination, or perhaps co-created, because they thought of it, because they know me?

    It’s this: “created by forces outside of your imagination.”

    Now I can imagine myself, stealing my grandfather’s truck and going to the store like Snoopy on a flying doghouse – that is not what happened.

    What I got was consequences, powerful enough to stop me from doing this again and perhaps harming myself or other.

    1. The trouble is, is what is now deemed as “ideal partner material”.

      Unfortunately it has got very skewed by extremely unrealistic expectations, and unattainable levels of perfection. People filter themselves beyond recognition on Instagram, for instance, to look impossibly attractive to others and get likes and follows. People won’t settle for anyone who earns less than a six figure salary. They had a long list of criteria, with no hope of ticking off the boxes – people don’t want Mr or Miss Average, they want a unicorn!😂

      I hope that Saturn can undo the damage caused by Neptune.

  8. I have never liked the term ‘beyond your imagination’ l did imagine COVID. I was a very early mask wearer too…
    I dont want to get into it with you, Rhonda– you have everything you want and neeed-it is a ‘given’ with you. Yes?

    Are we talking about the first principle here: All is mind

    I simply don’t know what l want…and it may be that l dont ‘need’ anything either. I dont feel depressed, particularly…anxious ( a bit) because it is not just about me…others are hurting. I cant fix the world…but l can imagine a better one…l will keep chipping away at it all. Best l can do atm.

  9. Avatar
    Aquarius Lurker

    Allow me to digress… regarding the reference to Einstein: as a theoretical physicist, Einstein used imagination to come up with equations to describe the universe. Experimental physicists collected data to prove his imagination was correct. He wasn’t imagining things out of the ether. He stayed within the bounds of physics. In Einstein’s case, imagination is underpinned by a clear understanding of deep truths. In MY case, imagination is used for idle daydreaming. I don’t take my daydreams seriously, except to notice when I daydream about things that are not constructive, which is a signal that I need to break out of my daydreams!

  10. I just watched a documentary on Arnold Schwartznegger ( please excuse spelling, if incorrect) There’s a lesson in dreaming, imagination and manifesting!

  11. Daydreaming: letting the mind wander…Einstein and Newton both did it…
    ‘Busy mind’ is another thing. Quiet mind…sometimes…esp. if l dont think about it…

    How does your thinking mind decide what is constructive and not constructive, Lurker? And does thinking make it so? What are the ‘bounds of physics’ these days? I think the diff. between imagination and reality is a little blurry. I love the science around Black Holes.

    1. Avatar
      Aquarius Lurker

      Yes, thinking makes it so. I wasn’t referring to an absolute truth.

      Bounds of physics – I was referring to Einstein’s bounds. There were rules he believed were valid, and he stuck to them; and there were rules he was skeptical about and resisted being bound by them (quantum mechanics). That’s all I meant. Nothing deep 🙂

      1. Thanks for the reply Aqu. Lurker.

        I am not sure it is all about thinking…discriminating, weighing and balancing…feeling is important too.

        I think Saturn in Picses atm. has alot to do with dismissing or down playing ‘feeling’ and individual unique experiences.

        I think Einstein would have gone where he was taken…how do we get ‘new thought’ New ideas?. Cant help thinking about the Impressionists (artists)…if they stayed ‘within the bounds’ …it would all be straight lines, dark colours…and a tree looking like a tree–still. Whose bounds exactly?

        And as fate would have it, l am listening to a new science program (right now!) about ‘sharing traumatic exps’ it helps some people–not others. Some people are harmed by retelling…it is not one size fits all.Look at the diff. experiences here.

        People find thier right healer at the right time. It is not up to someone else to say–heal now. abuse cases…someone else having power over them…

        It is deep, Lurker. That is why it is valuable…made me think…and feel too.

        I value air signs. I dont have any air (except chiron and node) …big air houses though…and a Virgo ruled 6th.

  12. Imagination is an empty vessel until filled with every image, sound, idea, experience we absorb. Those outside forces are the ingredients that mix together to form what we imagine, think, believe.

    Fiercely clinging to the idea that we can create and control reality seems like whistling in the dark, a defense mechanism to stave off deep anxiety and fear of the unknown.

    1. oh much obliged Elsa! I can only state what I see, hence why we need the collective to see all facets we wouldn’t otherwise! What is the saying, God experiences his universe through our eyes? I’m more of a Chaos fan, there’s always certaintly in that!
      But I forgot to add, as you mentioned, the consequences – and that’s only half the story for you. Because you have not only taken on those lessons afforded by them, you also integrate them.You signed up to the condesned genius mode of growing and knowing, subsequently cop 5yrs woth of crap in three weeks. So, it’s not what you get dealt with, but *how* you deal with it is the secret. Without the lessons, you can’t do the magic. just simple laws of the universe [according to me lol!] So cheers! You do you very well!

  13. Also to Marty, I will try to deal with my spine. My neck uses to be worse than my spine. They killed a nerve and it hasn’t bothered me for six years. I was told, six months if I were lucky. But beyond that, the last MRI, my doctor said it had improved. It has a reverse curve that is fusing. It’s misaligned as well. Courtesy my father kicking me in the head hundreds of times.

    Now my husband had machinery punch a hole, clear through his hand.MIT was a punch, punching a hole in a flip flop. He was a kid. He intended to pull his hand out…

    His grandfather was there and healed it. He had this ability and was well known for it.

    It’s interesting this comes up because last weekend, one of his family members came from around the world to discuss this.

    One more. My husband had a biopsy of his cheek. Stage one. A surgeon went to remove the lesion. To his surprise, the thing was deep… As big as his thumb. They took this huge chunk from his cheek, sent it to the lab. It took three weeks and came back – no cancer, no abnormal cells at all.

    So I know this happens. I know it happens to me! Who else has two back surgeries in three days, then refuses pain meds and gets up and walks alone, later that day? Down stairs (6 steps) and back up alone. But I have never thought I had anything to do with it.

    1. healing oozes out of you – fire hands! Lmao! The only choice here is your modalities! Try laying hands Elsa, you’re the perfect channel, and have good boundaries in not taking on other people’s energy. If you wanted to do energy drawings, claywork, ^anything* that is the output of this. I reckon give anything a whirl, that you feel is right. Why not! Nothing is ever impossible!

      1. Thank you. I have not tried any of this, but the tactile stuff resonated. Skin, I mean.

        I am aware of people – SCORPIO, putting their hands on me (hugging), to discharge their excess energy. I can feel it, like electricity and I am the ground. My sister explained this to me once. I asked the guy who was doing this at the time and he admitted it.

        Anyway, it causes me no harm and once I was aware of this, it was obvious. I feel a little guilty though, because I can’t always be available for this use!

        I guess, I’m saying, I may be able to use my hands. I can certainly tell who needs the healing.

        That brings me to another idea.. Lots of people don’t want healing. Like I have exactly what they need and can deliver it in five minutes, easily. Answer – no. Won’t take a chance. I find that so strange. I suppose I should puzzle it out.

        Last, I like talking about this but don’t, often, because people don’t believe me.

        I guess this makes the others point. It doesn’t work because they don’t believe.

        1. yeah, it all comes down to free will and autonomy; we have to respect that, as we would expect it from others, no matter how bloody stupid some people can be! And it’s very vexing! As you’ve noticed withe the Cassandra effect. In those instances, all one can do is show how to traverse the path to acceptance of healing, whatever their terrain may be. Also, far too many people have it entrenched in the very fibre of their beings that they don’t actually deserve it. Or/and that we have to wear our wounds as armour. Many variations.

          I would state here that in no way do I believe that people have signed up for trauma, that they ‘chose’ this in this life – NO WAY! If anything I would say it’s OTHER people’s choices gone bung that has directly resultled in the said trauma. People really need to own their shit more, and also look at what shit is NOT theirs!

          but as for the grounding, we have a hertz of 7 or so in electrical charge, so science meets shaolin monk mode for the win! I would expect nothing less of the Girl from the Desert, as you are the Desert. All bundled up in that little vessel!

    2. At risk of being guilty of swamping this interesting discussion, I would put to you Elsa that it is no wonder that the spiritual lineage comes through, both you and your husband work well with your Ancestors, there’s way more to genes than what we know or even conceive, at present! [I would say so far the research into Epigenetics is close] So, if we were to look at this through an Ancestor worship lens, Your Henry is your mentor, patron and saint. You honour him in all the right ways. You did not need to make a relic of him [btw,I love how much Catholicism venerates relics, that’s *real* old magic there!] you work *with* him. All the time. As he does with you. And I reckon your husband’s family’s propensities are similar. That spirit gene runs strong! Where does all this sit with the transits etc?

  14. I do believe there are forces surrounding us. I do believe we have the will to swim through any sea,I do believe we can dream and we can see parts of our dream, but I do believe the forces surrounding us will win the moment, but the game is ours to play , improve your flutter kicks, expect the unexpected, and be ready to bounce so how we react is really important, but to think we can pretend there are no sharks ??big mistake !! it’s like when you think it’s just sprinkling , it’s OK it’s summer it’s warm. You can get a little wet ,whatever ?and then that stuff comes down so smack hard frighteningly 🫣you just wish you were inside , hiding your face in dark pillows ,so far ,from here ,nature wins always ,even when you believe. Oh, he’s OK he’s a nice guy. The wolf is there ready to bite you hard and you will 🩸
    The world is yours the world is waiting for you, but the world isn’t showing all its cards so keep a couple stuck up your shirt.just saying, no telling, just best to be ready for anything.Be your own best friend
    Chin up, boots on, snakes are just getting bigger teeth longer , nature made you strong too, so eyes and ears open. I ain’t trying to be a killjoy. Just saying shit happens.

  15. Yes, it sounds correct to me. The idea that anyone creates their own reality is bogus. If you happen to imagine something that is in line with what the universe has in store, then kudos, but the glory goes to God… not you.

  16. I think maybe we are also narrowing our notion of reality to our personal reality too much. As Diane and Aq lurker mentioned Einstein and Newton were extraordinary in their use of imagination. They valued, and worked with their dreams. The imaginations of Isaac Asimov in the Laws of Robotics inspired the reality. Spoiler, scientists are inspired by the artistic creations of others and vice versa. It’s really all about asking The Right Question!
    Look at Dr Matt O’Dowd and his PBS Spacetime vids, coming out with some bangers like “What if Physics is NOT Describing Reality?”
    Therefore I would contend that Reality is Relative, and what seems like dualities or opposites are actually just parts of one coin. And the rim/edge of that coin is what brings in the 2D into three.

    1. Avatar
      Aquarius Lurker

      Well… We tread into ‘dangerous’ territory, lol. Some physicists say math, the language of physics, was not created but discovered; as if math is an absolute truth and we get to glimpse it through physics. But… is math ‘real’? I mean, math is math. Even my feelings, as ephemeral as they are, is more real than math! (To me)

      1. Haha! Well, you’re in good company with James May, as he does not believe in electricity. And he has a point! But yes, it was discovered, sacred geometry with the universal five patterns and all that, the way cells move, everything! But once they got to Quantum level, all those rules don’t apply. And because those rules no longer worked, the really inspired peeps took cues from non science things to change their testing, like applying the Tao. It’s Alice Through the Looking Glass, and the discoveries are mind blowing!

        And all that weird shit with Imaginary Numbers? [seriously!? I’m with Calvin here] Now coming of use. That Babylonian question re the equation that gives endless zeros as an answer, another base to potentially bear fruit with an answer. It brings to mind Isaac Asimov’s short story “The Last Question”

        But I also think that when math was ‘rediscovered’ in the later ages, they threw the baby out when discarding the philosophies that went with it all. The Greeks actually knew the full story, and basically if you are building worlds with math, there must be the sacred, it was never seperated in thought til way later with Rationalism. [paraphrasing and likely got many facts wrong lol more coffee!]

        1. Avatar
          Aquarius Lurker

          James May from UK television??

          Theoretical physics is great. I love it. Strictly amateur level though. I wish I had a Ph.D in it. It seems fun shooting the breeze about this stuff all day long as a job.

  17. So how would you explain this to a house builder or an architect? The house they designed started in their imagination no? This world started in God’s imagination, or maybe it is God’s imagination. Some people are able to touch on that in their own lives.

    1. I wonder also about what materials one has been exposed to. If you’ve only seen The Secret then there’s a lot missing. There’s a lot of good teachers out there, but the one who was able to answer most of my questions was Neville Goddard. He explains the principles. The law of attraction is a phenomenon, not a principle so if it’s presented in such a way, it is easily dismissed.

    2. That it’s all one and the same. In no way is it a replication per se. We are active participants. My thoughts. Maybe God is avoiding his own [emerging to us] laws of Quantum by experiencing his universe through us, and not change the outcome by observation. That our very expression of imagination and inspiration in creation of marvellous universes and vistas of our own, are a very vital part of how he experiences it in all its manifestation.

      But to briefly touch on your second question [and a very important one!] ah no, she avoided accountability like the plague that one! All rights and no responsiblility. I hid peoples copies and books wherever I could lol! So trite!

    3. At this point in time, building a house requires zero imagination. Spec houses are a cut and paste operation these days. Anyone can think it, plan it, and build it, by borrowing from what’s been done before, hence the proliferation of very sad buildings that we see today. The results are redundant and lack the qualities that inspire life…

      The process of designing a truly original building is a different story. But good architecture does not exist in a vacuum – it can’t be drawn on a piece of paper or on a computer screen, and simply inserted into the world. Good architecture requires a dialogue with the user and the environment (social and physical). Humanism was an important theme in classical architecture, with buildings designed in relation to human proportions. Modernist architecture was in response to human culture. Now there is a preference for buildings that harmonize with the natural environment in which they exist. Imagination is required, but the outside forces are equally, if not more, important.

      1. You made me think of the hand of the artist, CocoPeaches, it is not just about functionality. I want a house to be a house and work as a house should, but i want it to be My house and to have my… what? Signature. Something uniquely mine. That is what imagination means to me: originality. I dont own creative imagination–it comes through me–if l can get out of my own way. Bloody ego self always wants the biggest room. I like quiet corners.

        1. Exactly, the need for functionality is a constraint. Originality is not of you, but instead comes through you, in response to a unique set of constraints. I also like quiet corners, and cupboards 🙂

      2. Avatar
        Aquarius Lurker

        It’s a chicken or egg situation, isn’t it. We can say the environment (both the physical & social environment) inspires the architect to design something. Equally, we can say the environment (again, both physical & social) was created by the architect’s imagination who designed it.

        1. Not really. I would consider the physical environment to include the angle of the sun, geological features and soil structure, climate patterns, other life forms that are present… not the architect’s imagination. An architect’s design is not inspired unless it considers and responds to these elements. The social environment is murkier territory but I would argue it’s also not our own invention. People need places to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, among other things, because God made us that way.

          1. Avatar
            Aquarius Lurker

            Hm that’s thought provoking.

            I guess you’re saying it comes from outside of us and we are moved to respond to it. I wouldn’t disagree. Have you ever studied complex systems? Nerdy question.

            1. I have not – looks fascinating but definitely over my head. I do have a background in Architecture. I was responding to Libra Noir’s comment, with examples from my field that support the idea presented by Elsa: “you don’t get what your imagination creates. Rather, you get what was created by forces outside of your imagination.” In other words, human imagination is not the sole author of the beautiful or useful things created by humans. Our ideas are nothing until they interact with forces of nature, which is ultimately what makes them amazing. I’m not saying humans aren’t creative. I am saying that human creativity depends on harnessing powers outside of our selves.

              1. I’m not saying it’s the sole author either. But the statement presents by Elsa suggests that there’s imagination and there’s reality and they are completely separate. My suggestions is that they are inherently linked, that’s all.

      3. Imagination isn’t always unique. Rarely actually. But SOMEONE created those specs. Those ideas came from somewhere. Maybe many people are not original in thought. Maybe there are no original thoughts, that’s occurred to me too, but either way they come through the mind. If there’s one mind or many is something else entirely.

        1. I don’t think the statement necessitates separateness between imagination and reality. I actually agree they are linked. Take an 8.5×11 sheet of paper. Use any material you choose to create an image on that paper. Despite the infinite amount of possibilities of images you could create (using your imagination), the result is still defined and limited by the original sheet of paper (outside forces, or reality). Our imaginations may seem infinite to ourselves, but the truth is that we are ultimately bounded by outside forces. Every human comes with a unique set of limitations, and our imaginations may allow us to reach the edge of those limits, but none of us has an imagination capable of trumping our own limits… otherwise they aren’t really limits, are they? Our individual limits = unique set of possibilities, in which infinity can still exist.

          1. It’s hard to answer this succinctly. There’s a belief that there are personal limitations so there are. There’s beliefs that one is bound, so one is. Reality is formed from belief. Whatever we believe to be true presents itself.

            Some people like to give examples of things they don’t believe and then show how those things are false, but this proves the point. What you believe to be true about reality shows up. Can anyone say that what they believe is out of line with their experience? They just have it backwards. Reality doesn’t inform our beliefs, beliefs inform our reality and it creates a feedback loop.

            That’s also how faith works. Jesus told it like is. He told us about the nature of healing- that it was the faith of the sick that healed them. The reason that sometimes faith doesn’t work is because there’s doubt present.

            1. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him, an external force. Not faith in ourselves or what we can imagine. Faith doesn’t work when we don’t let go of our own will, which is a form of doubting Him.

  18. In impression of the “burned hand” event was that it was more of a miracle intervention in objective reality.

    1. The only true feedback I got, outside of the doctor noting it was a miracle and his remarking on my obviousness, was my fiancé. Sun, Mercury, Mars, Saturn and Neptune in Scorpio.

      He felt the fact I never looked at it, had some play. I never did see my hand outside of the initial stage. I will never forget. The skin was thick, and yellowed with grooves. A wide line across my palm, in line with the metal bar on the hand truck. It was transformed; looked nothing like my regular hand.

  19. Avatar

    Saturn in Pisces indeed brings together the energies of reality and imagination. The idea you mentioned holds some truth. While our imagination can shape our desires and intentions, the manifestation of those desires is influenced by external forces such as the planetary alignments, cosmic energies, and our karmic patterns. Understanding this interplay can indeed open doors by helping us align our intentions with the prevailing energies and take practical steps towards our goals. It’s a valuable perspective that can aid in staying present and navigating the currents of life.

  20. Wow what a great dialogue. I agree with everyone 😉

    We can all go back and forth but on the ‘law of attraction’ and i am well aware of all the different points made which are all valid and i do puff at the ‘self help aka- Oprah lingo/ideas’……

    BUT…..maybe there is something to it afterall there is a big $$ industry around it

    I do ask myself is that not what is already being done on the collective. Harnessing their imaginations and thoughts to manifest and create and participate in the manifestations…isn’t that what happened with COVID???

    Media, TV, music industry & all the nonsense that is being fed into the minds and into people’s imagination…is that not what they do sweep along people into their creative direction using these peoples imagination to put forth a manifestation?

  21. I am an elder now, getting old.I grew up in a metaphysically inclined house,studied all the create your own reality stuff,with gusto. I am open minded ,still, that it may or may not be true. However,At my ripe older age I have noticed that a lot of the BEST things that have happened to me, I did not have the wisdom,maturity or experience to IMAGINE ahead of time.. I never dreamed my husband’s work would lead us to live in Arizona, which I love more than I could ever have dreamed. Or imagined.I never imagined the trials and “bad luck” that would fall on our family with covid affecting our son’s health in such an awful scenario. His formerly fit, athletic, charmed life, is changed forever.. how could I have imagined that?? I never imagined I would become a nurse (i always thought I’d be an English teacher!) SO MUCH OF LIFE IS SERENDIPITY!! I think, now, that resilience is key.. and. if you have that, you will make decisions to move along in life,somsehow,someway, and keep enjoying parts of it..and also, I believe-now that the twists and turns can be the BEST part.. so, an open mind remains my main stay.. I read more books along the lines of Tosha Silver’s “Outrageous Openness” and less about”create your own reality” these days! I was a bit naive in my youth and thought I was dreaming up a great life..when actually, what came about was much more fun and exciting than I had dreamed or imagined, and also, the worrisome parts have been harder that I thought I would have to bear.. .. but it’s, karma, whatever. Life is..large , it contains multitudes! As Walt Whitman said.

  22. Elsa,
    I hope you do read this because I am with you. And I think you just tapped into arguably the most controversial topic of new age belief about personal power. People do not want to hear this but it’s a super important topic to air out. More power to you.

    One of my biggest life lessons is humility, and I have learned (through hardship) NOT to project my desires onto reality. I’ve instead learned to tune into the flow of the universe, following my life’s path instead of believing that I’m leading. Personal or spiritual preferences, get out of the way!

    Inner guidance is a great pointer. Yes, it helps.
    But life does not give a rat’s ass whether I want something or not. Frankly, it’s not all about me.

    When I tell people my view, they get PISSED! This goes against the whole belief system around manifestation. But ad infinitum, I’ve learned that if I imagine that something will happen, IT DEFINITELY WILL NOT.

    Surprise: each of us is an individual and we were not all born to follow the same cosmic rules.

    Belief systems are complex, more than just general rules that everyone can follow blindly. This goes to respecting our differences.

    Each of us needs to examine our own personal reality, intimately, with lots of discipline, to assess whether/when/how “law of attraction” works for us OR DOES NOT WORK FOR US.

    But discussing this in polite company is hazardous.

    Manifesting is subtle, complex, profound, personal. If there were simple general rules to manifesting, everyone would be doing great. Manifesting starts with meticulously and honestly examining our own personal path. Only then can each of us learn to manifest… IF manifesting is indeed our goal.

    1. “One of my biggest life lessons is humility, and I have learned (through hardship) NOT to project my desires onto reality.”

      I agree with this. Having a strong Saturn Neptune signature *that plays in relationships*, I have learned how egregious it is to hang around, imagining what the other person will or should do. WTF? Who am I? Creator of other people’s stories? I make it up and they go with my script?

      In my experience, this is one of the best ways to be victimized as perpetrators play your script for you, allowing you to think you’re in heaven. Orgasms all day and nothing but.

  23. Wow, these comments are so interesting to read; so many differing perspectives to consider 👍

    FWIW, I tend to keep my imagination space simple; when I need to escape the harsh realities of my life, my imagination is my ‘happy place’ to let my thoughts and mind run free of what I might like or wish for.

    I accept nothing will come of it, but it is my internal coping happy place 😍 (sometimes X-rated, sometimes R-rated, sometimes PG or family time . . . . . I am just thankful that they are my private musings )

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