“For one to expect or ask things of others that he himself, if asked, would not be willing to do or give, is the worst kind of arrogance.”
–Anthony Beal
Scorpio’s reputation for taking offense, and taking it to its highest level, is well-known. Heavily plutonian people can hold a grudge tighter than Jack Benny with a handful of nickels. They are also known to be the sign that will amputate a relationship without looking back. Why are they so deeply offended? In return Scorpio might just as well ask why people are so damned offensive.
Once you’ve set Scorpio’s jaw is there anything you can do to turn back the clock? Perhaps. But Scorpio isn’t Leo. Offend Leo and much of what you have on your hands is a perceived wound to their dignitas. While that may also be true of Scorpio, the meat of the matter is much deeper. While Leo may accept a humble apology, Scorpio needs something more: you must understand what you did, why it was terrible, and you must BE truly, truly sorry. Leo expects honor; Scorpio demands contrition.
Scorpio can smell hubris like a stinky sweatsock.
Genuine remorse and an offer of penance are necessary. Don’t bother a Scorpio with “I’m sorry if I hurt you.” They may just sock you in the face. Until you’re ready to own what you did and genuinely ask for forgiveness from a place of remorse, don’t bother. If you don’t understand what you did and have not internalized the reason you should never do it again, why should you be forgiven? Without understanding you remain a threat, as you may repeat your offense.
Do you forgive easily? What is your Scorpio/Pluto/8th house situation?
Mars conj. Saturn in Scorpio. NEED something deep to move forward after amputation. But with a Capricorn Venus, love and affection is responsible forever, so those relationships never seem to leave my system.
(Great writing Satori!)
thank you!
scorpio moon but leo venus, mars, uranus, pluto & rising squaring all that… when i was younger i amputated LOTS of friendships and relationships without looking back. BIG trouble with MOM (aries sun, scorpio moon) and didn’t speak for 7 years once. Now that I am older, I am working on FORGIVENESS which is very, very hard if someone really close to me hurts me badly.
I see my 10 yr old son with his scorpio mars holding grudges (what will he be hating about me once day!!) and do not want him to go through the pain i did (went through lots of therapy)so I figure i need to be an example as well as ‘detox’ from all that repressed, negative energy. GOD, if i knew then what i know now…
I do have some regrets about a few girlfriends. I am consciously honoring my LEO energy these days.
For some reason I can only forgive another Scorpio like me, or a person having a strong plutonic signature. For the others: they have to go the “Hades” phase, which will help them understand the transformation that arrives at the end with that process. Scorpios understand that.
The Hades phase! Yes, that is SUCH a Scorpio response. Love it!
Agree fully. SCORPIO DRAGON myself you lie or treat me with disrespect and act like I’m a bitch. Forgave him 5 times got on my knees 2 times and was mentally abused by a Cancer man. SCORPIO and Cancers are not completely compatible at all. Unless you want to day a little spoiled girl. Annoying and wasteful angery and preshish time. All emotional little girls. Just be a stand up truthful and always respect my ass and no cuddles after sex get the hell out of my bed. I’m so mad I’m shaking and want to cause physical damage to his ignorant feelings and body. May we never cross paths or I will curb his week ass face.
Great writing!!!!
I am quick to forgive but I don’t forget,lol. I have Scorpio Neptune in my 6th house I also have Pluto conjunct Uranus in my 4th and they all are connected to my Aqua Moon in the 9th.
I have a question, what about a Scorpio that won’t move on??? My husbands ex is a scorp they have a child together and she is constantly trying to infiltrate our lives in some way,lol.
I’m taking notes before you walk in the door. I know you before you udder the words hello I’m.. I’m 75% done and have no patience for no class weakness. Hope you keep saying educated and unttr comments and ask questions that aren’t annoying.
Who’s that little sweetie in the photo?
My sister says she’s the grudge holding champion (and I love her to death)–Pluto conj. ASC, Sun and Moon in the 8th House.
I forget that I begrudge people. Time goes by, and I’m all “ohhhhh yeah, you ARE a shit for brains, I forgot.”
Saturn in the 8th–busiest planet in the joint!
I have an empty 8th house, but the Scorp Moon, Rising, and Neptune I think is the reason I do amputate. Then my Leo sun does have that “ego wound” thing as well. Throw in my Mercury in Cancer which makes me “clam up” when I am hurt. No I don’t forgive easily – but I have grown up enough to mend fences with family members because I don’t want to one day wish I had, but now it’s too late.
that pic is me getting my feelings hurt at 2 or 3. 🙂 forty years later and I still haven’t forgotten…
Who’s the pic Satori?
What Maelle said. Unless the person really touches you deep down in the depths of your insect belly then letting them go is not such a big deal anyway. I’ve gone through a handful of those. But if they are one of those people then there is always a scab on that wound and it can be a sonofabitch.
Oh Satori you were just ‘dorable!
Love how you are giving that kitty a nice big squeeze!
Yep! You saw my chart recently Satori: scorpio moon conjunct neptune in scorpio squared by mars eighth plus pluto, uranus and venus in eighth. You have to know what you did otherwise you’re going to do it again. It’s not that I want to hold a grudge in that instance but I just know what you’re up to; if you don’t see why you shouldn’t do that then you’re just going to keep doing it. You articulated it perfectly.
But I think I’m a step past that.
Story: Had a cousin I grew up with, took baths with, smoked my first cigarette with ( got it from her actually) — that kind of close friend/sister/relation. She got married to some rich guy, I didn’t do that, we lost touch. A few years ago we talked on the phone and she was telling me about her two girls who fight all the time. She told me she told them they were lucky to have each other, she would have killed when she was a kid to have a sister.
What about me? I said.
Oh, yeah, she said, that was great. But *you were never my sister.* There was a little edge on her voice; I knew she meant to say what she said, the way she said it.
Okay? SLAM. never speak to her again. Won’t know her, won’t go to her funeral, dead to me. No other option. You know?
btw, y’all need a reading from Satori. She is a brilliant and compassionate soul.
thank you!
just posted the story of the picture…
https://elsaelsa.com/forum/?replies=1
eva – “There was a little edge on her voice; I knew she meant to say what she said, the way she said it.”
sounds like she was trying to hurt you???? Does she have scorpio energy? just wondering if there was something from the past…
I have Pluto in Leo in the 4th house… opposite the Sun, Mercury and Venus, trine my Asc and Sextile Neptune.
I can overlook more than forgive but I never forget. It depends on the depth of feeling… I have to like somebody to overlook something.
I can also appear friendly while thinking “you’re an idiot”.
I can remember wrong doings for decades… in 1979 a co-worker played a nasty practical joke on a co-worker/friend of mine and I still haven’t forgiven her. My co-worker/friend forgave her a few weeks later but I haven’t spoken to her since. I’m thinking “friend” comes into the cateogry of “family” with Pluto being in the 4th house… don’t do anything to my “family”!
And it’s a *black* cat. How apropos. Satori, I just want to pick that little girl up and take her out for ice cream.
My Moon’s in the 8th, and Mars is in Scorpio with Neptune along for the ride.
Interestingly, at least for me, it’s the Sun Scorpios I tend to amputate and not the other way around.
The transgressions seems to revolve around their incessant need to probe me… I’m more private than anyone could guess, so I prefer to offer an invitation first. The unforgivable offense happens when they try to peg me as this or that and get it wrong. If you’re going to presume to have the right to drill into my skull, you’d better have your diagnosis down or you lose all my respect. Their diagnoses usually say a lot more about them than they say about me… A Rorschach test of sorts.
Great post, Satori.
thanks!
Completely agree with this and it’s totally my experience with Scorps.
I posted the quote on my Facebook page. I won’t go into the backstory, but I needed to see read that. It’s something I’ve thought about a particular person in my past and I hadn’t articulated it in that way, but I needed to. Thanks.
Sun, Venus, Mars in the 8th. But I have lots of Leo.
Neptune in Scorpio in the 8th trine Cancer moon in the 4th; you don’t get in easily….once you are in, hurt or betrayal cuts deep….it is never, ever forgotten…..have amputated totally and never looked back. Not pretty, but there it is.
anyone a scorpio cant control hurts them, its a bug.
H2, I think the cousin was really trying to disown her past and everything in it. She married a very wealthy man and became a sort of family hero to the rest of the clan because she was always buying mansions and getting nannies and going to Rome. Her husband didn’t care for any of us and it was his money, and I think this was the final statement she needed to make about coming from the working class but really belonging in the upper class.
whatever.
Wow. That fleshes out the reason. What a great thread!
The only thing that ever wounds me is when I feel that someone has underestimated the depths of my love for them, and taken it for granted. That’s really the only thing I find unforgivable. I know my dad, also a Scorp, feels exactly the same way: Wow. You didn’t understand how much I loved you, did you? Then, poof. Done.
I agree, that was really well done Satori. I hold grudges and the only way you get off the hook is if I find out later there were mitigating circumstances.
this is so spot on!
Actually, I think my Leo sun is just as unforgiving as my Plutonic side, just on different issues. 🙂
Pluto sits at the bottom of my chart and hits everything. I am the grudge machine, which is also why I’m the plexiglass factory: I know if I let someone in, then 9/10 of the time I’m the one that’s going to end up wounded and more often than not the person isn’t worth it. So “you” get a hologram, intentionally.
An illustrative story:
I’m hanging out with SuperScorp in the beginning of our courtship. He had already learned that if he wanted me to stay over, he had to tell me stories or I’d bolt (it’s a Gen thing). I’m in the midst of deciding whether I love him or not, unbeknownst to him (I think — he does have the Scorp).
So we’re laying in bed and he’s telling me a story and it scrapes a fresh emotional wound. Hard. Like, gushing blood hard. So I freeze up and say, “Stop. Stop it now, I don’t want to hear any more.” But he keeps talking, half-story, half-why, why, why??? And I burst into tears. Great, wracking sobs. Which, thankfully, shuts him up sufficiently so I can bleed it out and leave, though minus quite a bit of dignity.
And that’s the night I knew I couldn’t love him. I mean, I love him in that “tribe” way, but not in the soul-burning way. Yes, he’s still around, and I do adore him, but I will never forget that I can not trust him with my wounds.
Insult to injury? We have these conversations where he demands to be let in, because he knows I’m holding back, and every single time he says, “I will never hurt you.”
Motherfucker!! Already have, already did. Case closed.
Still sad, in a way.
And that’s my hijack for the day. 🙂 Sorry about the length, y’all.
eva – ouch, i get it! her loss, and i hope she realizes it one day. doesn’t say much for character does it…
Having both scorpio and leo energy, i have realized that my scorpio sting really lashes out the most when i have been blindsided by a trangression. if i see it coming, my leo-ness, the everpresent tug-of-war in my psyche, tries to hold on to the ‘proud mask’ and be forgiving,, once they have groveled enough… It’s the scorpio that will lash out to hurt back. Very confusing to those who know me to say the least… i am trying to learn how to ‘let go’ but it is very, very hard. i don’t forget even when i think i’ve forgiven…
!
satori if you were my little muffin-head I would have tucked you under my wing and never let you go!:) your piscean tenderness comes through so clearly in this post!
U r right Satori!!!! they can forgive, but never forget.
The men who cheated on me, I could care less if they died or are dead now, because they are dead to me in my world. I totally amputate, I don’t forget. I think if one forgets, they’re prone to make the same mistakes. Scorpio moon/Uranus, 8th house sun/ venus.
I think my jupiter in scorpio really does effect me alot. Considering that I am always around scorpios or dating them.
But reading this article has got me thinking, my ex-husband who is scorpio sun and leo in mars to top it off he has jupiter, saturn and moon in his 8th house. And that is how he behaved everyday. And that is why he is the ex.. Being accident prone is not a good thing when mixing with a scorpio and leo energy.
This is a near-perfect description of the process, esp. this:
‘In return Scorpio might just as well ask why people are so damned offensive.’
Scorpio Moon/Neptune sextile Pluto.
Nailed it Satori! I can relate totally- Scorpio Moon & Rising trining my stellium in Pisces. Yup, emotions run deep and so does the hurt. Fuck with that, and you can expect the worst.
Saturn in Scorpio IN the 8th house — and ding ding ding, we have a winner. YOU MUST APOLOGIZE WITH CONTRTION IF YOU EXPECT ME TO TALK TO YOU EVER AGAIN. There is so much of my persona that is fluffy and cuddly — Pisces rising, a ton of Leo, some Cancer — but once you piss me off, that is it. I’m done.
Jupiter in Cap 8th opposite Mars in Cancer 2nd. I don’t get mad quickly or easily but if I get mad enough, then I don’t forgive – I amputate and go back to being happy.
Scorpio I got some, you want true forgiveness from me. I accept it the way I give it, with the 3 R’s. Request, Remorse, Repent. I learned it as a kid in catholic school from my nuns, it works wonders and really is that simple.
doing well is the best revenge….’they’ can fume while I’m off achieveing. Also my relationship with others is only as a boss. My sphere fosters dependency… Mars conq taurus trine sat virgo.
omg this is *so* true. “While Leo may accept a humble apology, Scorpio needs something more: you must understand what you did, why it was terrible, and you must BE truly, truly sorry. Leo expects honor; Scorpio demands contrition.”
So well phrased. Have gotten half-assed apologies in the past and “amputated” the relationship. Not because of what was *done*, but b/c of the lack of sincere apology and understanding of the effects. I can actually forgive just about anything.
And omg, if this doesn’t hit the nail on the head.
“Until you’re ready to own what you did and genuinely ask for forgiveness from a place of remorse, don’t bother. If you don’t understand what you did and have not internalized the reason you should never do it again, why should you be forgiven? Without understanding you remain a threat, as you may repeat your offense.”
So true, so true. Scorpio rising here, natal Mars opposite Pluto, Pluto currently conjunct Sun.
@ ast, that’s it. I have more than once told the offender, it’s not what you did. It’s how you handled it after the fact. It’s not what you did, it’s what you did with it. I often question the offender with are you sorry you did it, or are you sorry you got caught?
mmm this rings some bells, though also in the instance of the passive aggressive, post and cancer sensitvity she spoke of too
recently I had some dances with this girl,she later said to me on the 2nd dance request,I find it hard to say no to you
I later spoke to her a briefly and spoke of how some women also always assume, that you fancy them in a club that is full of male and female dancers, every week, I tried to talk to her a little bit more and she she mentioned “how girls could find this icky”
given, the minefield of women, I didn’t pursuse this any further
a few weeks later, she stopped, looked at me and turned away and over tot he other side of the room, I wondered what this was about but instead just pursued a dance, she was all laughter and smiles and we had what felt like a steamy dance, I asked her for 2 more that evening and judging from the looks in her eyes, she could feel the fireworks too,
on the third dance, I asked if what she was doing on the weekend, and she said, she was busy saturday but free sunday and asked why and I asked if you would like to meet for a coffee.
She said, yes and I got my phone and tapped her number in and she repeated it and said I would call her, regarding the coffee, and she said ok
I called her and her phone was off so I sent her a text, explaining it was me from ceroc and what time and location wise, would be good for her
she ignored it, no hey, I have chnaged my mind, sorry, by text, nothing
some have brought up the idea, that I was one digit out on the phone number when she repeated her number and took a legitimate phone number with a digit difference
this seems unlikely to me as if a random stranger calls my phone and then follows it up with a text, i would at least call them back and say, hey you called my phone, I am not this person, you address in the text
I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t do that
I went dancing thursday and saw her there and ignored her all evening although at 1 point, I thought it looked like she was hanging near me, to talk but I just moved onto the next person as she made no clear signalling effort
she left early that evening
yesterday I went dancing again at a freestyle and she turned up there too, later in the evening and gave me a weak smile as I was going to the toilet and was entering at the front, I don’t know what kinda look I gave her back, but all evening it was bugging me
i got the sense 100% wehn she gave me the weak smile that she knew, I had called and texted and she said nothing
I may send out vibes of leave me alone but at no point has she attempted to talk to me and apologise, I realise women flip flop but I have found this particularly maddening and I don’t buy she did not get the text/call and would appreciate a simple, sorry I had a change of heart, thanks for the offer
women always say , they like a confident man,
and I confidence per say, is not something I lack but at the time, my scorpio sensitvity has meant , time and time again I have recieved knockbacks from women and what not but they never went as far, as giving me the impression they were up for a coffee and giving me their number, only to ignore me, in some ways , it does feel kinda passive agressive, as she has not tried to settle and I find myself feeling angry and a little hurt
it’s not like I know her well, but I have just become so tired of all this
I won’t be dancing with her again unless she explains and apologises at least
even then, it may be a little difficult being reminded of yet another woman who said no
http://www.facebook.com/#!/jamie.wooder
Im just scratching my head. Why would you want to be with her?
I dont know but it Sounds like shes playing.
Its a defense mechanism or a vanity issue for her. If you pursue it, you might end up getting hurt because shell be like that in your relationship with her.
But You know her better than I do.
Look at your motives for pursuing this. Thats all.
@Satori… You wrote… “If you don’t understand what you did and have not internalized the reason you should never do it again, why should you be forgiven? Without understanding you remain a threat, as you may repeat your offense”.
This is really so true! Scorps may get a bad wrap for that but you know, it’s logical! It makes a lot of sense to me. WHY would you forgive someone (which, lets face it, DOES take effort sometimes) for them to turn around & do similar AGAIN??? You’d be a nut!
@Daisy… the 3 R’s?!!! Request, Remorse, Repent. As you said… pretty simple really! lol =)
…
Without understanding you remain a threat, as you may repeat your offense.
Yep. For me it’s not about forgiveness. It’s about self-protection, self-preservation.
As long as “you” remain a threat, I remain ready to deflect your future offenses.
Oops! Only the first para was supposed to be in italics (i.e., quoted).
8th house sun mercury and venus; saturn and pluto in the scorpio
what is cruel is my parents named me essentially ‘forgiveness’
and all my life people have expected me to forgive – with the most feminine grace of a piscean – but see I’m an aries!!
What an insightful, well-written piece!
So sayeth Scorpio moon, Leo rising. 😉
I have an eighth house in Scorpio – that’s exactly how I feel. Never could see eye to eye with the Leo ex on this.
Do you forgive easily?
sometimes its easier, sometimes not at all… but ill sure NEVER FORGET, and make sure u know it!!!
What is your Scorpio/Pluto/8th house situation?
Uranus/Juno Scorpio 3rd house, aspecting many personal and outer planets in my splashed chart. (Grand Square involved)
Pluto in the 2nd is also heavily aspected, and is part os a Grand Air Trine.. and aspect my Sun.Merc/Moon among others.
8th Aries House PoF, SN, Chiron (Taurus)
I think it’s because it’s my Capricorn Moon. I don’t forgive easily, but I’m fair. I’ll give you one chance to tell your side of the story and let you know you only have one more chance. If your explanation sounds ‘right’ in my eyes than I’ll accept it’s just a misunderstanding. If it’s obvious that what you did was wrong I will apologize for having to leave you and then either leave myself or ask you to leave politely.
I know i’m a Gemini, but I think it’s that heavy Capricorn Moon that needs respect.
I wouldn’t say that I forgive easily but it is possible… It depends who and what is the problem.
I have an 8th house Sun (in Aqua) trine Saturn (in Scorp) and Pluto (in Libra).
I cut you off if I feel pressured or taken advantage of. However I have a huge amount of Pisces and it definitely pampers my moods!
My Scorpio Moon/Neptune in the first Jupiter in the second in square to Aqua sun and Leo Uranus are not amused and are may forgive but don’t forget. When dating my husband made up a story about the scar on his back and got my sympathy then admitted it was a lie…..whenever he wanted his back scratched it seemed that the scar was what was itching. I wouldn’t scratch that scar for the first 15 years we were married. He’d say, ‘get over it’. Not so fast, buster!!!!!