“We must learn and then teach our children that niceness does not equal goodness. Niceness is a decision, a strategy of social interaction; it is not a character trait. People seeking to control others almost always present the image of a nice person in the beginning.”
–Gavin De Becker
Gavin De Becker is a security specialist and well-known author of several books on protecting yourself and those you are close to. Having read two of his books what stands out to me is his advice to listen to your intuition and act on it. Primarily I remember his admonition “when people tell you who they are, believe them.”
People tell you who they are in many ways, sometimes in their actions, sometimes in their words, but often in how their words don’t correspond with their actions. Mr. De Becker is a Scorpio with Mercury, Saturn, Lilith and Ceres conjunct in Scorpio. He nurtures self-preservation in communicating the psychological structure behind manipulation.
People in our lives tell us who they are constantly. They tell us in words, in actions. Many times we don’t choose to listen to what our intuition tells us about their motivations. There are lots of reasons for that but probably the main one is that we don’t want to accept it because it is not what we want to be true. But that doesn’t change the facts.
Black Moon Lilith is the embodiment of self-interest. She has a feminine polarity and cuts through the crap of the niceties. Lilith is the voice that says, “This is bullshit; jog on!” Lilith with a Venus filter might say it with a pretty veneer, but the message is still there, “I’m sorry, but this doesn’t work for me.”
Whether your Lilith placement is harmonious or challenged, one can reap the benefits by listening to the intuition and making a judgement for self-preservation. Here’s a story of three women and how things go wrong when you ignore your Lilith revelations. Four of us went dancing, two other women, myself and my man. One woman glommed on to my man, going as far as to hump him on the dance floor while he and I were dancing together. Had I listened to my good judgement and my intuition I’d have cut the night short when I saw where it was going, but I finally did at that point.
The next morning I got a call from the other woman that the humping woman had contacted her asking about my man and talking about his sexiness. I let that gal know that I was aware of the situation as she had also contacted my man. I called the woman and let her know that what she had done was completely unacceptable to me. I didn’t have to cut ties with her, she did it for me. However, the gal that called me continued her association with this woman. She wanted to be “nice” and wanted to believe the humping woman that it had all been some sort of misunderstanding.
Well, this weekend the nice gal went out dancing with her man and they included the humping woman. How do you think that turned out? Worst case scenario. This could have been completely avoided had the nice gal listened to her Lilith and believed what the humping woman’s actions told her.
It’s not mine to judge. The nice gal is judging herself harshly enough. Some people learn lessons the hard way. I am often one of them. I’m just glad I listened to my Lilith and avoided this particular vicious woman.
Do you listen to the voice of self-preservation? What’s your Lilith situation?
Whoa. I always heed my inner voice because I am very afraid that it is noisy in prison. My lilith situation has to do with past issues…way in the past..
heh heh, “noisy in prison” ::fist-bump::
You better believe I listen to my inner voice – She’s conjunct my ascendant in the 1st house (should I say BML rising?). Add that to the fact that she’s trine my midheaven and north node and I’m beginning to think it’s my job to be a bitch, fortunately my cancer rising does play nice.
I have Black Moon Lilith in Scorpio. No surprise there. I have a very keen intuition and self-preservation comes naturally to me. I admire the fact that you confronted the humping woman. I would have amputated both the humping woman and the nice woman without saying anything. Not out of fear, but out of extreme distaste for the whole sordid event. That’s my Libra rising talking.
Yes I listen to my Lilith, any one comes near my man, they will be sorry. But also I listen to it because it keeps me out of trouble/danger.
I try to. When I haven’t, I’ve regretted it.
BML is in my 5th, the other two are in my 4th (unless you use equal house – then they all shift to my 5th.) She’s alive and well, and pissing off anyone who messes with me/tries to control me, gaslight me…
Also my lilith is in sag conjunct Merc and Sun all in the 11th house.
Anna makes a good point; that really is the safest thing to do. keeping people around you who are not using good judgement puts you at risk as well. I did, to be frank, hold her at arms length since then, because her poor judgement could get blow-back on me.
@Satori lol honey all I can say is Venus in Scorpio. I’ll try to be the bigger person and call 911 on myself in advance lol. ::fist-bump::
Satori, just out of curiosity, how did your man feel about this situation?
Oh yes Satori your man must be mellow. My husband is a scorp and the one time a girl in our group glanced at him he began to say bad things that start with “wh” and end with “ore”. It was unpleasant.
Black Moon Lilith is in Pisces trining my Sun and Mars in the 12th so she is very active. But as I read about Pisces, sometimes I notice the details right in front of me, but not the ones beside me. As a friend put it, I always seem to run into people that after I have let them into my life or have some how been influenced by them they tell me “oh by the way…I have a gambling problem” “oh by the way…I can’t ever pay you back” “oh by the way…I am a drug addict”. This does not come to me in headlines. More like I just find out after the facts of what I thought were glarring facts and though things were ok. But I am learning more and more as I get older to try to pick up on the small stuff. I do have angels though that help out my Lilith. I have been in very, very bad situations and always seem to come out nice and shiny. Not deceptively so, just saved by the bell so to speak, when I thought all was dire.
Libra moon, seventh house Cancer Mars… he sidestepped it and let me deal with it. he knew I would! he’s rather passive in these situations and it bothers me. I’ve had to learn to accept that’s how he is. he doesn’t encourage or discourage, although he’s asked me for tips on how to discourage and does try now. he mostly gets worried that he’s going to get in trouble over it.
women chase him. he finds it flattering. he let me know she emailed him; he didn’t reply. he’d have just ignored. he knew I would take care of it.
LOL, Satori. My husband has Mars in Cancer too but his Venus is in Aries. He’d probably handle it the same way your guy did by ignoring it but if the situation were reversed? Holy hell, both the humping man and the nice friend would have been dust by the time we left the dance floor. His Mars in Cancer means he is better at protecting his loved ones than he is at protecting himself.
he has Venus in Aries too but square Saturn. 🙂
My guy has venus square Saturn too! His Saturn and Jupiter) are conjunct in Capricorn though and he’s an Aquarius. He looks like a cop (hard to explain) and can appear a little stern in public–women don’t typically chase him. I’m the one who gets chased so he’s too busy looking out for me to be distracted by another pretty face. LOL.
You’re so fiesty for a Pisces, Satori. Do you have any Pluto or Mars aspects with your personal planets?
“Some people learn lessons the hard way. I am often one of them.”
Me too…
Leoman is Scorpio Moon/ASC and doesn’t like women getting too close to him at all. He’d never go dancing but if a woman did that to him he’d probably walk off the floor and not come back. He also has Cancer Mars.
The other day he told me the gal in the coffee shop cups his hand when she gives back his change. So now he tips her well because “I don’t like her touching me and tell her to keep the change.” LOL!!
I asked if she was flirting and he said “No she’s just weird and I hate people touching me.” Scorpio…
Kashmiri, mine with Libra moon, sadge ASC doesn’t get what the fuss is about; everyone’s just being nice to him and having fun! 😀
Anna, his Saturn and Jupiter conjunct there too. and I have a Scorpio Mars and Pluto opposes my sun and trines my moon. he doesn’t have to worry about people approaching me; I have a pluto bubble that is rarely broached.
LOL! I hate it when people I don’t know touch me too!..lol (Scorpio). Wow I didin’t even think of it as a Scorpio thing Kasmiri!
@Kashmiri-This explains a lot. My hubby and my uncle do that too. Scorpions are so cute.
and they REALLY don’t like cooties!
Sadly, my Pluto bubble is no match for my Libra rising. People have learned the hard way that my dimples are not to be trusted.
our composite rising is Libra, but the composite mars-pluto in the 11th makes it an attractive nuisance.
I wouldn’t have ditched the nice friend, but I was going to say before, that I would hope any man I was with, would walk away, or would tell her to stop.
Food Poisoning Guy was my sister’s boyfriend/fiance. I had no interest in him, and wouldn’t have touched him anyway. He told my sister to ask why I felt uncomfortable being around him, so I finally fessed up (I didn’t know how to say anything before). he claimed I imagined his making a pass at me, or that I wanted to believe it, I guess – said something to her before I did – only to declare his undying love for me to a family member, a little over two years later, to a fellow family member, not to me. I was called a man hater, because I didn’t want him anywhere near me.
Interesting. Our composite rising is Cancer with composite Mars/Pluto in the third. We both have large and close-knit extended families so most of our social events revolve around birthdays, weddings, holidays, barbeques, etc. Our closest friends include cousins and other people we grew up with so there’s little chance any of them will come up to hump-dance my husband.
Satori, I have Lilith opp Venus from 6th inconj merc in Aries and saturn in Gemini…. Semiswuare
Moon at 29 scorp and Pluto @ 1 libra …. Any clues on this
Lilith placement. Do I need to bitch up to have a secure relationship? Soo confusing
my post disappeared 🙁
but what I said was my Lilith is exactly conjunct my vertex in Capricorn in my 6th house. Yes, Pluto is close to transiting both. I’m not sure how to interpret the conjunction of Lilith to the vertex since it’s not a point that alot has been written about.
Okay, but is she vicious or is she pathetic?
I mean seriously, she goes out dancing with a couple and tries to steal the guy? From an *adult* woman? Who does that? It’s like you went out in public with an adult woman, fully believing she possessed all her senses and was in fact human, and she turned into a monkey.
If I knew this person I would give her a wide berth and forevermore believe she had brain damage.
.. you don’t want to listen/to know because you want things to be different.. this is spot on! sometimes that happends. My intuition is strong and l can’t ingnore it. My Lilith is not aspected at all it’s untouched, Gemini 9th house. l might be optimistic but l have my limits, at least l hope l do 😉 l want to belive things but it’s so true that some things you already know somewhere deep inside. l’ve heard myself saying ok this is not the way l want it, this is not working like this..without changing the situation. People’s actions can tell you everything you need to know. l must say that l see things but it’s possible that l just try to bend it in a positive direction.
Lilith in 9th Scorpio with Mercury. Listen to her? I’m usually trying to talk OVER her. Oh yes, she is definitely heard.
Ox’s is first house with his Neptune. Sometimes his Lilith uses my mouth to speak..or so he says.
I looked it up and I have true Lilith conlunct my sun and Ceres/Mars and BLM/Juno/Venus in scorpio conjunct.
I listen to my instincts yes. I don’t think I could not do that (is that really bad english? sorry.)
I hate people touching me too :D. I just thought I was weird.
Satori, Excellent post. You’re adept at illuminating some of the more obscure astrological concepts.
For some reason I find the repetition of the phrase “The Humping Woman” ever so funny. (I know, I know, I’m immature sometimes)
Beware the humping woman, lol!
Seriously though I can relate. I DO heed that voice. There was a woman who I had a strong feeling was acting around my guy in a way that would make me uncomfortable – and when I asked about it, yup she had recently made him uncomfortable too. Not an in your face sexual thing, but more an inappropriate boundary issue.
This all is fascinating to read. I like to read these “other woman” -posts, and some other topics are also my favourites. For me it feels, that other women are no problem for me, its my mans problem. I dont so much think about that kind of things, that kind of situations are somehow not part of my life. ElsaElsa gives nice window to “see” how life is in USA. Sometimes it is funny, or I cant relate to problems presented here, but sometimes it is totally understandable. And my lilith is in cancer 5th house.
My dark moon is 26 degrees 15 mins of sanitarios on the 4 th house conjuncts the south no de at 29 degrees. What does it mean?????? Please let me Know. Jose
I have BML in Scorpio in my first house. Course that means I have Scorpio ascendant. I also have Venus and Saturn in my first house all in conjunction. Intense yeah I guess
BML conjunct pluto/sun and mc.
I remember one time that a girl (i was about twenty one or so), was trying to show off her new breast implants to my boyfriend at the time. I was ready to fight her when i told her to back the eff up from my man. I saw red but she backed off and me and my boyfriend left the scene. Seems like Im always fighting other women off my men (not that there have been many men, but enough to show a pattern).
I question myself about a lot, but never when this kind of thing happens and I dont care how i look, or have any shame, when i have to go there. If they are going to act like an animal, then ill act like an animal.
Same goes with my son, my home and my money. Sometimes my pride too, but the perpetrator really has to catch me at a weak moment for that. (And i do have weak moments).
Mine is underdeveloped. Same degree conjunct Saturn which is a degree from Chiron- all Pisces in the 7th.
Very underhanded, dirty and cruel exes who tried to destroy me when I left.
No, I did not see it coming- I always think people will be as fair as I am. I fought as much as I could but it’s not in me to be completely lacking in nobility.
My boundaries are better but I catch myself all the time allowing someone to take advantage. Even if it’s just texting me too much for a kick when I’m not interested.