Comments regarding Saturn in aspect to Mercury aka having control of your mouth and your mind.
More on this topic – Astrology and (Real Life) Intelligence
Comments regarding Saturn in aspect to Mercury aka having control of your mouth and your mind.
More on this topic – Astrology and (Real Life) Intelligence
Gem… you and I. Peas in a pod. 🙂
Angela – your post went into the spam filter (got blocked)… ha ha Saturn.
But I dug you out so merely a delay. 🙂
I think you are new here – Hi. We love Mars with Mercury around here, make no mistake!
Yes, I agree. I have Mercury in Capricorn sextile Saturn, I don’t open my mouth to say anything that isn’t useful or that I consider appropriate. And as for opinions I will only express mine if asked or even demanded (!), otherwise I’ll sit quietly, make up my own mind and be contented with that. To be honest, I don’t enjoy that other people ask my opinion much…
When I was an insurance agent for a big company I was like that with my big mouth, and I may have rubbed a few people the wrong way, but the higher ups really seemed to like me. I mean our second highest boss who was the only one who was ever seen by us workers except in really big meetings, would always stop by my desk and say ‘hello’ as me how I was doing. And even the managers said ‘hello’ to me usually.
That was the best company to work for. I had to leave because I moved with my now husband, but I always remember that company very fondly. They taught me so much about never being afraid to ask questions, and how to assert myself.
In social situations I will rarely be totally honest about things that I know people don’t want to hear, even if they outright ask. But I won’t lie. I try to say things tactfully. So many people just blurt without asking, and I too see that as a boundary breech. I am very defensive of my boundaries.
Hi Elsa,great to see you bigging up Saturn – i have a Saturn Venus contact and your right it’s hard to track down positive stuff! I have to admit the whole idea of holding back opinions till asked is a little alien to me (ok alot) but i’m a gemini ASC and Mercury opp Uranus, that said i can see that a Mercury Saturn approach may be much more constructive in large organisations than my particular brand of communication which is sometimes seen as upsetting the apple cart 🙂
I have a wide square between Mercury and Saturn – I am horrified whenever I make a mistake (mainly verbal/written), and 90% of the time, tend to be very careful about what I say. The rest of the time, I’m like Mercury without boundaries – I have Mercury in Aries, so maybe that’s it – sometimes, I just can’t help myself, it’s going to be said, come hell or high water (even if I end up in hot water).
Yesterday, I made a mistaken assumption about another person – this was on the internet, and in front of several people… I didn’t mention any names, and when I realized that I’d made a mistake, I posted that as well, but I was *mortified*. Even though I deleted, there is a way that it still shows up for a few weeks (it’s a bug in the system, on the website). There are so many people who would just shrug this off, if it happened to them – especially since this is the internet, and relatively anonymous – but it’s still on my mind. I tend to over-compensate when it comes to feeling guilt – Saturn squares my Jupiter, Pluto and Mercury.
On the flip side, I seem to be quite the International Woman of Mystery. You wouldn’t believe how many people have called me “mysterious” when I don’t see myself that way at all – my Mother even laughed, when I informed her of this.
I hold back until asked (sat sextile merc) but when asked it comes out whether you like it or not (merc conjunct mars)
Mercury conjunct Saturn here. I totally agree with everything you said.
people will sometimes say (after asking me something), “oh, maybe I shouldn’t have asked that.” I tell them they can ask me whatever they want. I’ll tell just about anyone, just about anything if they only ask. and it will be the truth.
but then, I have trouble asking people stuff. I may even really, REALLY want to know but I don’t want to pry. I’m not sure how to get over that. I think I may need to be working on it.
pisces mercury, scorpio mars (3rd house).
Word up dudes,
Just to say Albert Einstein, Mercury conjunct Saturn in Aries…
What a dumbass (not)!
Paul
Sounds like some very good advice Elsa. I often talk “normally” in social settings and some people who know I am a counsellor seem to read more into what I am saying and get all entwined in feelings when all I want is connect with others. Sometimes that means not saying anything or very little at least. (boring) Its like I gotta walk on egg shells around them. I feel like yelling to them “I am not analysing”. You are right on the money with regard to therapizing without contracts Elsa. That can feel like an assault for a person.
There is a technique that psychotherapists use called Extractive Identification which I find widely incorporated into personal Astrology readings. Its like pulling something out of the client and reflecting that back without allowing the person to arrive at the insight themselves. The client can feel ripped off, if there is less care in the application.
kingsley
Mercury squared Saturn on one side and Mars on the other. Must be why I like it so much around here. 🙂
I think this is a fascinating concept – that people with self control have more to ofter if you bother to ask. I’ve come to really appreciate Saturn over the years and I think it has a lot to do with all I’ve learned about it here. Love your balancing act Elsa.
Extractive Identification is not really mirroring Spinner. Think of working on the floor using a soft voice with client who is regressing, the use of the technique allows other kinds of insights to arise where they would be otherwise defended against. If the client is not ready or the therapist goes too quickly there is a kind of dissociation.
I am all for doing astrology readings on floor level, astrology readings are great for inspiring a sensing, intuitive and somatic part of ones personality to come out amongst the reflective visualisation. Somewhere in that area (zone) if the timing is right, the extractive identification can be safely implemented. Its not something all counsellors use but it helps to decide whether one will use the technique or not and how they intend using it.
kingsley
I find mirroring usually works very well. Kingsley- are you saying that one should let a person arrive at the insight themselves? I would agree with that.
Maybe Saturn could be like the wall that others can bounce a ball [mercury] off?
I think if you write a public blog, that is clearly intended to be a one-to-many experience, you should expect to be judge and psycho-analyzed.
If that is your intent, as opposed to a one-to-one exchange, then you are asking people to spend time on you. And time is money.
People then get the right to debate if they are getting their “money’s” worth. Just that point of what you said, that’s valid to me … you say you didn’t ask them … but I think that kind of you did.
This makes sense. Why volunteer information if they don’t want to know it? Sometimes I do operate that way (Mercury trine Saturn). Though other times, the Sag moon wins out.
Thanks Kingsley. If I had not asked the question I wouldn’t have found out what you know. I don’t know anything about extractive identification so I am happy that I was able to find out more about this from you.
I like language and words and putting them together in different ways. I find that the way that people use words is very interesting. As well as learning about astrology, I visit this blog because I find Elsa’s writing and the huge variety of comments here very interesting.
Your sentence ‘Its like pulling something out of the client and reflecting that back without allowing the person to arrive at the insight themselves.’ is really cool, but also puzzling.
I can see now that even though you have used the word reflecting that it’s not a mirror.
I have Mars in Gemini so my mind bounces around a lot and I have infinitely more ideas than I could ever express via type. If I could type as fast as I think…wow wouldn’t that be something.
Some examples. Elsa, can you relate to this one? Did you ever visit one of those barber shops where they had big mirrors on opposite sides of the room and there in front of you were hundreds of images of you and everything else in the room going off into infinity?
Or how about the character in ‘Breakfast of Champions’, Kilgore Trout called mirrors leaks, because he thought that you could leak through them to another world and when someones said they were going to take a leak well that meant that they were going to steal a mirror. That was Kurt Vonnegut’s most popular book, but certainly not his best.
Althera- I am not sure if people can expect to debate whether they are getting there money’s worth at Elsa’s blog. I am sure that her writing is worth a lot more than she is earning in tips. It’s kind of like asking her a penny for your thoughts and than not being happy with the answer. Aside from the wonderful cookies she get’s to eat once and awhile, I think that she get’s a lot more out of giving then she does from receiving.
I have Mercury in Virgo, unaspected no less. I’m diagnosed OCD; THAT’S a definite manifestation of a Virgo Mercury with no boundaries (aspects). 😉
There’s two distinct theories about unaspected planets: they’re either submerged, or they run away with the chart. You can guess what mine does/did. 😉
Saturn already conjoined my Mercury before it went retrograde. It’ll definitely be interesting to see what happens when it makes its second pass. I got mounds of criticism for my sharp tongue during the first pass. Tone it down, will ya?!? 😉
Spinner … I hear what you are saying. But my point is that there is more than just the straightforward exchange of effort and money. In the case of the web in general, people spend time on sites. And a lot of web business who are selling information, translate viewers time-on-website into profit via ads. Like television and radio.
I think so long as I am continuing to spend time on viewing something, and not “changing the channel” … I get to have a say on my contribution in making that thing profitable. Of course I can also stop caring and change the channel.
Secondly, if someone asserts themself as a public figure of a form, and is taking up public space … yeah, they are then also subject to public opinion. Standing up on a stage, talking loudly, and drawing attention to yourself full well knowning you are standing in front of an audience, and then saying, “who asked the people in the audience to make comments on what I did up on this stage and why I did it?”
I think the person on the stage did. When that person put his/herself up on the stage. It’s kind of the point of getting up on a stage in the first place.
i know someone with mercury opposite saturn who has no idea when to stop talking, or even what’s relevant to say in a conversation. extremely frustrating to talk to, but their mercury is square my mars/asc, so they may just project on me (or vice versa).
personally, i have mercury trine saturn, and i relate to this. i don’t volunteer information normally. if i do, i feel awkward afterwards and i end up retracting the statement or whatever. i have mercury in 9th and jupiter ruling my 3rd, so i’m known for being brutally honest and giving too much information when i AM asked. but i do have boundaries.
you make a very good point Althera!
i always say that with me the trick is to ask the right questions 😉
i feel like i’m incapable of not answering a direct question, actually. like i’m forced to speak. it can be kind of odd. but mostof the time i keep my own counsel… in groups of people anyway. (11th house saturn square 9th house mercury.)
and, yeh, i often think things through pretty slowly, but once i’m done, i’m usually pretty darn sure about them. and i’m certainly no dummy 😛 (apparently my IQ maxed out the measurement range of the test they used. so i don’t know what it is. and i’m actually happier that way, oddly…)
I’ve got Sun-Merc-Saturn conjunct trined Neptune, and sometimes I really just cannot shut up. 🙂 I’ll be trying extremely hard to get my point across and have no clue whether the other person is understanding me at all or has tuned out or what, and here I am slogging along feeling like I’m rambling but not able to shut my yap without some indication that my thoughts have been received (and, therefore, somewhat validated). It’s quite frustrating, because I’d really prefer to say it once, have it understood, and get on with my life.
But, yeah, I try not to offer opinions / advice / solutions unless asked and then let fly with both barrels. ‘Cause you can be damned sure I’ve been watching and have my own conclusions. 😉
Oh!
Another upside: Although I’m not a slow thinker (I also tested pretty danged high on the IQ scale), I tend to mull over and select my words carefully so that the meaning is as precise and easy to parse as I can make it.
Not that it helps with Neptune in the mix. *laughs*
crickey, the second part of my reply about extractive identification was a bit weird. Must have been on those drugs Elsa was talking about.
k
I’ve been complemented on my ability to be tactful, however I can also shock people with things that come out of my mouth. Mercury forms a T-square with Saturn (square) and Uranus (opposition). Not because of cruelty but because I can be really quiet and not give much away until *bang. And a lot of people (including people who know me and love me) fail to realize that when I’m quiet, I’m listening. They’ll talk talk talk and then say “helllooooooo!!!!!” And I’m like, “Now how am I supposed to listen and talk over you at the same time?” lol
I used to hide aspects of myself (Scorpio MC) but Pluto conjunct my ASC has changed that. Well to hell with it because I know I’m emotionally sophisticated and have learned from my experiences.
Satori’s comment really resonated with me. I hate prying into people’s lives and struggle with knowing when to ask the appropriate question. I look for clues, and I try to make it clear to the people I love there is a limit to what I’ll ask them, they have to demonstrate to me they’d like me to ask. My Dad has Mercury in Scorpio (opposing my Sun to the exact degree) and always asked “Can I tell you how I feel about _____?” and I learned from that (I hope).
More than a zillion times in my life I’ve been accused of thinking things I’m actually not (mind readers of the world unite?!) And I think that is a breach of boundaries as well.
Sometimes at work I can get angry really quickly with a client. I think because my job involves talking to people *exclusively* on the phone, I can take it too personally when people are rude.
But for some reason they love me once I say “Would you like to talk about this with someone else?” (We take on each other’s problems at work when we get too frustrated with a client).
I’ve always said it’s easier to deal with someone else’s asshole.
Kashmiri, its funny you say that. I have a short fuse and when I get frustrated I always ask to speak to someone else. And it always seems like the person doesn’t want to transfer me.
I also have a hard time understanding someone with an accent combined with a poor connection and I will always get the only non native english speaker everytime. it’s my lesson I guess b/c I have no patience either.
let me just make Elsa’s point here about boundaries.
Gee Elsa, you look really fabulous in this video for someone on the mend. I love how vibrant you look when you are passionate about a subject. Of course, I’ve never seen you not passionate on anything you make a video about. But you sure look great in black.
How’s that for boundaries?
I think, Ms. Scarlett, that it’s an ego battle for people who refuse to transfer you to someone else. I think this because back in the day I would refuse to. I’d even go so far as saying “I am the manager” which is super STUPID when I look at it now, but I have Mars in Aries and so I like to win. :::cringes:::
I’ve watched my SO at work on the phone. He’s amazing and can get anything he wants. No shit. One day after a particularly trying conversation with his cellphone provider he got a BOX OF CHOCOLATES in the mail. And I’ll tell you, he is never, and I mean NEVER rude or aggressive. He is, however, persistent…
“BOX OF CHOCOLATES??????
::faints::
I KNOW! Gemini ASC/Scorpio Moon. He can charm the pants off of anyone 😉
Criminey! Does he teach a class for that, too, kash? 😛
Re: Mercury with boundaries…I just wanted to say hi ;-).
I am the friend of Elsa who has placed herself on a self-imposed sabbatical until after the election, the reason being that I do not trust myself to restrain myself from being obnoxious on this topic. I am fanatical minded on this topic, so I have silenced myself in advance…an effort in prevention…
Quintessential example of what Elsa is talking about and yes, I have! I mean, I am! What she said!
Mercury/Sun Opposite Saturn, and the opposition is in the fixed signs to boot! (throw in a fixed Moon making it into a T-square even).
Dogmatically oppionated about the election issues AND rather stbbornly self-imposed boundaries around myself when it comes to communication on blogs that are not intended to be for political ranting such as this one. I am not even letting myself talk at all, with only this major exception, one which I could not resist because it so beautifully illustrates Elsa’s point.
Loonsounds, I thought it was strange when you did that but have come to realize you were infinitely wise and waaaaaaaaaay ahead of the curve on this.
I missed you Loonsounds!
Love how your face lights up when you talk about the soldier on the video!!
Mercury quincunx Saturn.. What is a quincunx?
Either way, I can’t shut up and often go over the boundaries partly because my Moon/Mercury feelings come spilling out. On the other hand, I always feel stupid after I’ve said it and like I’ve said too much. Numerous people have told me that I have no boundaries or that something is wrong with my social skills.
Well Dina, no one could ever accuse you about not caring about other people’s opinions…I’ve always respected your ability to ask questions because often I’m too scared to. I think that is the Saturn part, for me anyway.
Thanks, kashmiri since I didn’t say so before. And thanks for answering my questions.
Wisdom is often silent, and Saturn is about more than just book knowledge. Saturn is real life knowledge, it is knowledge gained through experience, which is the best type of knowledge. Yes, Saturn can be slow, and yes, Saturn-Mercury aspects need to be worked on and developed, but with time and patience, a Saturn-Mercury aspect can be a real asset, because what eventually comes out of the mouth has been studied slowly, thoroughly and seriously before being released and shared.
Also, Mercury (the conscious mind) has a tendency to flit here, there and everywhere without being able to focus on and hold one thought for more than about ten seconds. Saturn is a great asset here because it adds gravity to Mercury and teaches Mercury to hold thoughts and sustain them, and thereby manifest (a Saturn word) things. Saturn also helps Mercury to form goals, and adds perseverance and patience until those goals are reached and manifested out into the world. It is a good aspect for a teacher to have – for instance an old, experienced Saturn coaching a young, flighty Mercury student.
I think that most people that have Saturn touching their Mercury are fortunate.
Very true. Anyone else hard on themselves with this aspect? I have the opposition in Aries/Libra. People who don’t know me think I’m shy, simply because they were too busy dumping their life story on me to ask me about myself. I feel that the aspect slows me down but only in the sense that I process information more thoroughly than most people do. I love research and have a talent for reading between the lines. I can be a harsh critic since I find the weakness in things very quickly. When I give compliments they are real. Oh, and I HATE SMALL TALK!
Saturn in early Gemini, Mercury in late Taurus. They’re at the ends of a multiple conjunction that’s not quite a stellium what with crossing signs and houses.
I say what I mean, and I mean what I say, (Saturn-Merc) but I might change my mind at any minute (Double Gemini! with Neptune opposite)
😉
I have Mercury in Gemini in the 10th — this counts as Saturn/Mercury, right?
I loved this post.
This is so timely! The intention I’m going to set tomorrow is to control what I say when I’m irritated. Transiting Saturn trine my merc now so I believe that I can do it.
I have Saturn opposite my Sun and Mercury in a wide orb, I usually watches what I say(merc in Virgo) but when I’m excited or irritated I can say things that I regret later. At work I had to pay for those moments several times in the past. I really hope that I can control it and learn the lesson now.
its from 2008n but i love everything knowing about horoscope and the stuff
That makes so much sense!!!!!!!!!!!
P.s., if you see this, I have a question: you said that your orb was a bit wide to be counted by some. How wide is your orb?
My saturn mercury trine is by 3-4 degrees.
On the blogs, there is a lot of discussion on saturn venus aspects. I’ve claimed that I have (and therefore struggle) with this one, but it’s as wide as 6.5 degrees. Sow wide is ‘wide’ in your case?! 🙂 🙂 Thanks.
a 7 degree orb would be counted, debdeb. 🙂
I do the same thing, but for a different reason. My Saturn and Mercury do not aspect each other. However, my Mercury is in Pisces conj Jupiter. I won’t say a damn thing unless you ask me, and then you will hear an earful!
Haha! Ok cool! I therefore definitely have a mercury saturn trine. I hereby profess to always speak slowly, to develop my points logically, and to contribute to this blog when asked to.
😀
My best friend has this one. Was just discussing it with her last night. She’s one hell of a persistent student (it’s in the 9th house in Sag), through/despite strange failures due to obnoxious authority figures. I think she does very well with this aspect.
I, on the other hand, have Mercury conjunct Uranus, in the 8th.
Any communicational restraint I have is learned (courtesy of that transiting Saturn in Libra).
I tend to catalyze people’s deeper understandings of themselves, offering a deeper spin (8th house) on the truth (Sag).
Still, unless someone clearly engages me on the subject, and shows me they have their mind open enough to hear me, I won’t engage on those subjects at all.
I’m an astrologer with friends who barely know I’m an astrologer. With others, every other word is transits and planets, and psychoanalysis all the way. Depends on if they can handle my level of truth. 😉
hello sir my name is happy kumar i m undergoing maha dasha of mercury and cant tell u how much in pain i m now i dont have friend not even 1ce all my planets are weak now so pls pls for mercury give strong remdy or mantra or feng shui item to palce in home to get befefic results thank u